51 replies to this topic

[nbond3040]

And none of that is down to hardware. Sure, those are all reasons why the PC version is best, but that not because the PC has more powerful hardware.

yeah you're right although most devs won't spend the time to shoehorn a port to the WiiU because of the small install base and because they hate Nintendo

[Dharmanator]

I would like to point out that install base is not everything.

The Wii had a huge early lead in consoles sold due to the popularity of the gimmick. But when the dust settled, the 3rd party games were far more popular on the PS and Xbox.

Same thing will happen here except for the fact the public was not enthralled with this gimmick. We won't even have the benefit of the huge install base.

Nintendo should have made the platform more powerful and more RAM. Price it a bit higher... $400 or so.

Oh well. .. too late now! 8)

[Hunter]

Specs are something Devs take into account and the specs are a huge leap from WiiU to PS4 http://www.ign.com/w...omparison_Chart but besides that you're right

 

Even if the gap was as big as Wii to PS3 this gen it is irrelevant at this point since games are still being developed for Xbox 360 and PS3 which are inferior to Wii U.

[Aiddon]

more like 3rd parties are just lazy and are also terrified that they'd have to actually use design and cleverness on the Wii U as opposed to playing smoke and mirrors to try and mask their stagnant talent. Plus they'd have to live with playing second fiddled on the system as opposed to Sony and MS where their the thing. It's a lot of different things, but it's mostly political bs.

[Poptartboy]

I would like to point out that install base is not everything.

The Wii had a huge early lead in consoles sold due to the popularity of the gimmick. But when the dust settled, the 3rd party games were far more popular on the PS and Xbox.

Same thing will happen here except for the fact the public was not enthralled with this gimmick. We won't even have the benefit of the huge install base.

Nintendo should have made the platform more powerful and more RAM. Price it a bit higher... $400 or so.

Oh well. .. too late now! 8)

That's still because the audience wants Nintendo games. Multiplatform games just don't sell.

How would more RAM and a higher price help anything?

3rd parties don't like Nintendo because Nintendo fans don't buy 3rd party games.

more like 3rd parties are just lazy and are also terrified that they'd have to actually use design and cleverness on the Wii U as opposed to playing smoke and mirrors to try and mask their stagnant talent. Plus they'd have to live with playing second fiddled on the system as opposed to Sony and MS where their the thing. It's a lot of different things, but it's mostly political bs.

This lazy stuff is BS, but this second fiddle stuff might have some truth to it.

There are plenty of talented people at 3rd parties but the business people are clearly stifling it. Budgets are too high to risk creative games.

When budgets are this high a Wii U game will be a huge risk too.

yeah you're right although most devs won't spend the time to shoehorn a port to the WiiU because of the small install base and because they hate Nintendo

So basically specs don't matter, it's the install base / lack of software sales then.

[Aiddon]

When budgets are this high a Wii U game will be a huge risk too.
 

 

And whose fault is it that budgets have gotten this prohibitively expensive? 3rd parties. They're the ones who have gone wild and kneecapped themselves financially. And the sad part is that they could stop at any moment. They COULD stop spending so damn much, scale back budgets, bring variety to their portfolios instead of relying on a handful of titles, and organize themselves better, but they won't. Why?...I don't know. No one is twisting their arm, demanding that they spend so much so a LOT of problems 3rd parties have is due to their own idiocy, lack of foresight, and weirdly stubborn nature. I am not going to feel sorry for 3rd parties if they make such blatantly idiotic decisions.

[Nollog]

It's the install base and nothing more.

If 2M people decided to buy Mario AND Assassins Creed then we wouldn't have to have the same discussions over and over. The games don't sell so they don't get made.

Figures from vgchartz (lol)
Platform: Xbox 360 = Global 4.51m
Platform: PlayStation 3 = Global 5.10m
Platform: Wii U = Global 0.17m

Also from VGChartz:
Xbox 360 (X360) 78.13
PlayStation 3 (PS3) 78.59
Wii U (WiiU) 3.36
If you want to scale the numbers to make Nintendo feel better, you could subtract 78 million from 3 for 75 million extra consumers for the other two.
Couple that with the game launching slightly earlier on those consoles, and convert the numbers to percentages.
360: 5.77%
PS3: 6.49%
Wii U: 5.06%
That's a decently comparable number of consumers who own the console buying Ass Creed 3, despite it launching later than on the other consoles, and little to no advertising for it on the console.

Edited by Nollog, 16 August 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Poptartboy]

And whose fault is it that budgets have gotten this prohibitively expensive? 3rd parties. They're the ones who have gone wild and kneecapped themselves financially. And the sad part is that they could stop at any moment. They COULD stop spending so damn much, scale back budgets, bring variety to their portfolios instead of relying on a handful of titles, and organize themselves better, but they won't. Why?...I don't know. No one is twisting their arm, demanding that they spend so much so a LOT of problems 3rd parties have is due to their own idiocy, lack of foresight, and weirdly stubborn nature. I am not going to feel sorry for 3rd parties if they make such blatantly idiotic decisions.

Yes you're completely right. The reason is basically people are greedy and they see some things making a load of money so they want that over and over, instead of realising that that kind of thing is unsustainable.

It will be the same talk with Nintendo. If the make a profit on Wii U then they've done their job, but the world of business needs to see 'growth'.

It won't look good to 'business' people to see sales drop from 100M Wiis to say 20M Wii Us.

3rd party's don't want to see a load of low budget games making a small profit. They want mega hits that make millions.

Figures from vgchartz (lol)
Platform: Xbox 360 = Global 4.51m
Platform: PlayStation 3 = Global 5.10m
Platform: Wii U = Global 0.17m

Also from VGChartz:
Xbox 360 (X360) 78.13
PlayStation 3 (PS3) 78.59
Wii U (WiiU) 3.36
If you want to scale the numbers to make Nintendo feel better, you could subtract 78 million from 3 for 75 million extra consumers for the other two.
Couple that with the game launching slightly earlier on those consoles, and convert the numbers to percentages.
360: 5.77%
PS3: 6.49%
Wii U: 5.06%
That's a decently comparable number of consumers who own the console buying Ass Creed 3, despite it launching later than on the other consoles, and little to no advertising for it on the console.

I see your point, and maybe they are happy with that kind of attach rate, but maybe they were hoping for 5% of 6M rather than 3M.

[Nollog]

I see your point, and maybe they are happy with that kind of attach rate, but maybe they were hoping for 5% of 6M rather than 3M.

3 million consoles 9 months after release, I wonder how x1 and p4 will do after 9 months.
To me, that will be interesting.
Both will have all the third party support you can possibly get, and the games won't be stripped of features, come out on time, be advertised, and support DLC day one.
Many won't even have hundreds of thousands of bugs in them!

I really can't wait for the first game(s) to level the playing field with at least 6 year old consoles, let alone the new ones.

[Aiddon]

Yes you're completely right. The reason is basically people are greedy and they see some things making a load of money so they want that over and over, instead of realising that that kind of thing is unsustainable.

It will be the same talk with Nintendo. If the make a profit on Wii U then they've done their job, but the world of business needs to see 'growth'.

It won't look good to 'business' people to see sales drop from 100M Wiis to say 20M Wii Us.

3rd party's don't want to see a load of low budget games making a small profit. They want mega hits that make millions.

 

The thing the margins aren't increasing and business isn't actually expanding. Instead of trying to become more welcoming in an attempt to bring in NEW customers, thus making the market bigger, devs and pubs are really just fighting over the SAME audience that is inevitably going to shrink. Except for Nintendo who are ALWAYS trying to bring in new players, thus keeping their market consistently healthy and diverse. It just amazes me at how publishers and developers haven't caught on to WHY these problems exists and ignore the ways to fix them.

[Zombies8MyDuck]

EA and Nintendo need to become friends so that I don't need to buy a ps4 to play mirror's edge 2

Edited by Zombies8MyDuck, 17 August 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[Poptartboy]

3 million consoles 9 months after release, I wonder how x1 and p4 will do after 9 months.
To me, that will be interesting.
Both will have all the third party support you can possibly get, and the games won't be stripped of features, come out on time, be advertised, and support DLC day one.
Many won't even have hundreds of thousands of bugs in them!

I really can't wait for the first game(s) to level the playing field with at least 6 year old consoles, let alone the new ones.

It will be very interesting to see sales figures for the new consoles. I really do wonder how desperate people are to pay a rather large amount of money for slightly nicer graphics when most of the games will already be on their 360.

The thing the margins aren't increasing and business isn't actually expanding. Instead of trying to become more welcoming in an attempt to bring in NEW customers, thus making the market bigger, devs and pubs are really just fighting over the SAME audience that is inevitably going to shrink. Except for Nintendo who are ALWAYS trying to bring in new players, thus keeping their market consistently healthy and diverse. It just amazes me at how publishers and developers haven't caught on to WHY these problems exists and ignore the ways to fix them.

Again, I agree. To me the lack of variety coming from 3rd parties is the worst thing.

I mean Sony said they're doing Knack so not everything is a shooter. Knack alone is not variety. This is why I like Nintendo. I know people say their games are often the same but the reason they still feel fresh to me is that they're the only ones making games like this.

I mean who else is making games like Pikmin?

[EvilMoogle]

Give us some examples of games that are loads better on PC. Minecraft is a good one but what else?
Not just graphics wise, I want actual gameplay differences.

 

Mouse and keyboard support. There's still no better way of playing just about any game in any genre not just shooters than the combination of keyboard and mouse. Offering a magnitude of more precision and speed than fiddly analogue sticks. If you prefer controllers you are simply more "comfortable" with them because you haven't actually experienced keyboard and mouse long enough to admit it's better. The reason console gamers can't compete with PC gamers in competitive tournaments is because they wouldn't stand a chance. 

 

Free modifications such as add-ons, total conversions, unofficial levels and all manner of extra content not originally included with the game. It's all distributed to everyone for free. It's gameplay that you aren't a part of as a console gamer. I assume the lack of extra content would affect your gameplay experience? 

 

PC games get unofficial fixes and support such as Phantasy Star Online which has private servers up and running. I assume not being able to play my GameCube version online anymore because Sega doesn't support it hinders my gameplay and that's just one example.

 

And by the way graphics go hand-in-hand with gameplay. Better graphics combined with a good story and game mechanics all make for great gameplay. 

[grahamf]

I don't think Art Acedemy or Nintendoland would translate well to keyboard and mouse. And I have Sega Generations for pc and it's terrible if you don't have a DirectInout controller, specifically the xbox one.

[Poptartboy]

Mouse and keyboard support. There's still no better way of playing just about any game in any genre not just shooters than the combination of keyboard and mouse. Offering a magnitude of more precision and speed than fiddly analogue sticks. If you prefer controllers you are simply more "comfortable" with them because you haven't actually experienced keyboard and mouse long enough to admit it's better. The reason console gamers can't compete with PC gamers in competitive tournaments is because they wouldn't stand a chance.

Free modifications such as add-ons, total conversions, unofficial levels and all manner of extra content not originally included with the game. It's all distributed to everyone for free. It's gameplay that you aren't a part of as a console gamer. I assume the lack of extra content would affect your gameplay experience?

PC games get unofficial fixes and support such as Phantasy Star Online which has private servers up and running. I assume not being able to play my GameCube version online anymore because Sega doesn't support it hinders my gameplay and that's just one example.

And by the way graphics go hand-in-hand with gameplay. Better graphics combined with a good story and game mechanics all make for great gameplay.

Again non of that is hardware/graphics related. Slightly better graphics might be nice but I'm askin for examples of what the PC versions of games have done with their extra power. Using a mouse isn't valid as its not power related. I could use a mouse 20 years ago.

[Nollog]

Again non of that is hardware/graphics related. Slightly better graphics might be nice but I'm askin for examples of what the PC versions of games have done with their extra power. Using a mouse isn't valid as its not power related. I could use a mouse 20 years ago.

I thought you just asked for examples of games which are better on PC, not using advanced hardware/graphics.

[Poptartboy]

I thought you just asked for examples of games which are better on PC, not using advanced hardware/graphics.

The point raised was some games weren't possible on Wii U because of the lower specs, and I asked what games were better on PC, which is already above PS4.

When I say gameplay differences I mean something made possible by more powerful hardware that you couldn't just scale down slightly for Wii U.

I'm not arguing that PC isn't a viable way to play games.

[Nollog]

You can scale down anything, so long as you're not a lazy third party.
So you're asking the impossible.

[3Dude]

Again non of that is hardware/graphics related. Slightly better graphics might be nice but I'm askin for examples of what the PC versions of games have done with their extra power. Using a mouse isn't valid as its not power related. I could use a mouse 20 years ago.

That doesnt really happen anymore, hardware capability has far exceed the average competency level of most studios, resulting in incredibly sloppy code and horrendous memory management. They just arent up to the challenge today.

You would need to look to the past to see the things you are looking for regaurding pc vs console.

[Poptartboy]

You can scale down anything, so long as you're not a lazy third party.
So you're asking the impossible.

So that's my point proven then. Specs won't make any difference to the games and they could easily make the games for Wii U if they wanted to.

That doesnt really happen anymore, hardware capability has far exceed the average competency level of most studios, resulting in incredibly sloppy code and horrendous memory management. They just arent up to the challenge today.

You would need to look to the past to see the things you are looking for regaurding pc vs console.

Yeah exactly, my point was saying how the most powerful graphics around hasn't done anything gameplay wise that Wii U couldn't do.

The original point was saying specs were the reason we weren't getting games and I don't think that's the case at all.