41 replies to this topic

[LinkKennedy]

but uncharted 4 is okay, right? RIGHT?!

That's my point tho, Uncharted does not sell nearly as good as let's say Gran Turismo but Sony pushed that series and gave them the resources to make a top notch quality game. That's what I feel that Nintendo should do but like Sony not abandon their old ip like GT or God of War.

[TheDoctor_13]

Platformers are my favorite genre, so the news of DKC:TF dosent bother me. Donkey Kong, Kirby, Mario, Yoshi, Rayman. Play them all day rather than some of the other stuff. But how do know Retro hasen't atleast started Metroid or something big? They were expanding earlier, and it could all be hidden behind the scenes till E3. 

Nintnedo does do a lot of new I.P's but they don't gather much mainstream interest. And theres not really a genre a Nintendo ip hasen't covered. They have brawlers, zombis, fps, racing, platformer, action, adventure, puzzle, ect. And Miyamoto is working something new and exciting also.

But this is why I love Nintendo, hate western games pretty much. Cod, LastofUs, BF, it can all go down the drain.

[3Dude]

The King of All Cosmos, on 19 Dec 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:
Honestly, I'm sorta with Thrash.

What this is sounding like to me is another person whining that Retro isn't making Metroid or another dudebro shooter, and taking it out on DKC:TF.

Not to mention this wonderful quote coming from the same person who lists NBA 2K14 as one of his favorite games of 2013: "I want the innovators to take charge, the people who won't play by the rules, who would rather die with ambition than thrive playing it safe."


As well as this brilliant quote: "In my hour with Tropical Freeze, I just don't see anything that makes this game special. Sometimes fun just isn't enough for me." Really? Having fun with a game isn't the most important part in wanting to buy it? It has to innovate in a thousand different ways too? I guess all sequels are in trouble then.[/size]

I've pretty much learned to disregard GameSpot when it comes to Nintendo reviews/articles/etc because usually, they're crap. Who can forget when they gave Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon (A rather easy game...only died once or twice) a 6.5 because it was "too challenging," or when they gave Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy a 7 because "it refuses to step outside of its comfort zone," then turns around and slaps a 8/10 on Call of Duty and Battlefield 4 for sticking to its yearly churned-out formula with loads of bugs and godawful campaigns?[/size]

gaemz juranlism at itz fienst[/size]

And as for them giving Link Between Worlds their "favorite game of 2013"...well, a broken clock is right twice a day.[/size]

First off, lets not beat around the bush, game reviews are bought. Its not even speculation anymore, or suspicions strongly supported by evidence, game reviews are bought, they are blatant advertising. If you dont pay for a review, your game isnt going to be given the time of day by most reviewers, unless it is something easily familiar and easily digestable to the game reviewer.

Now that thats out of the way, that is some serious cherry picking and straw man making right there.

Metroid is 100% completely mutully exclusive from dudebro shooters, dudebros hate metroid because they are too stupid to play it. Metroid prime was a first person ADVENTURE, it was marketed as first person adventure, and any time anyone said otherwise, retro would correct them. Lumping them together like that is misleading. decieving and incredibly unfair.

At no point in time did tom ever mention he WANTED retro to work on another metroid, he simply used prime as an example of what Retro is capable of that very very very few studios today are. He didnt SAY Donkey Kong was a safe sequel that had no innovation, in fact, he said quite the opposite, spending several paragraphs about what the new characters brought to the game and how much he enjoyed the innovation. He made it very, very clear hes not talking about something as simple as innovation.

Hes talking about a revolution. Something that resonates throughout the industry, transcends genres, and influences game design the way Metroid Prime did. He is VERY well aware that other studios dont do this. He freely admits other studios cant do this, he openly states he is holding retro to a different, higher, standard. He holds retro to a higher standard because they have proved they are capable of MORE. He clearly states these kinds of people are NOT the majority in this industry, they are the exception, which is why he wants THEM to take charge. Because if they dont, well just continue to be crapped into oblivion, buried underneath all the play it safe sequels you are erroneously attempting to use as counterpoints to his argument.

At no point in time did he demand another metroid. In fact, your strawman is just that, a strawman, sure metroid fans would have wanted another metroid from retro, Its been seven years since corruption. Very few people are dissapointed in dk JUST because they wanted another metroid prime. Most of them were excited for ANYTHING Retro could have POSSIBLY done EXCEPT another simplistic 2d platformer. People were busting at the seams for a Retro developed RPG, talking about ravenblade, or a Retro first person RPG like fallout, Or an adventure game, or anything more mentally stimulating than a 2d platformer.

And thats INCLUDING being a Donkey Kong game. Tom McShea makes the same point. Donkey Kong COULD have been that retro game that left himexcited and thinking after he put it down. Even if it was STILL a 2d sidescroller. Like I brought up earlier, fun is NOT mutually exclusive to 2d sidescrollers. In fact, you can have the same exact fantastic platforming in a simplistic level based platformer, in an adventure game that offers MORE.

Retro COULD have turned the dk series from a simplistic 2d level based platformer into a grand adventure. They could have designed a gorgeous persistant world for the player to explore and discover, they could have designed fantastic pacing and progression by having the player discover the different kongs, use their unique abilities to discover new areas, get power ups like diddy's rocket that gives the player that breif boost and can also then grant access to new areas, find cranky's cane now you can pogo enemies, perform fancy manuevers, cane jump over spikes and gain access to new areas, find gloves for donkey kongs, now he can crap in his hands and throw it at enemies, and lob poo bombs over walls to hit switches and gain access to new areas.

It could have been SO. MUCH. MORE.

But instead its just a simplistic by the numbers 2d platformer. Perfectly in line with its snes brethren, Sure its new, and exceptionally well done but there are no surprises, nothing more mentally stimulating than 'jump now'.

Plenty of people are capable of releasing solid to high calibur 2d level based platformers. In fact, there is a vast wealth of them on the wii u right now. But something more? Thats getting increasingly rare. And Im not just talking about 2d platformers here.

[Keviin]

Off course! Yearly rehashes of games (COD, AC, Fifa, etc.) are okay but a 2D platformer from a game series that had been quiet for a pretty long time is not okay. I can totally understand modern gamers' logic.

[Thrash13]

And game spot just awarded link between worlds game of the year. No, not 3ds game of the year, not portable game of the year. Game of the year.

 

LOL, nice call on reading my post.  That comment made you look pretty stupid eh? ;-)

Honestly, I'm sorta with Thrash.

 

What this is sounding like to me is another person whining that Retro isn't making Metroid or another dudebro shooter, and taking it out on DKC:TF.

 

That was exactly my point.  It just gets old, and trust me, I read plenty of websites around the internet.  And from what I've seen, and it's no real shocker to anyone else who reads articles, Gamespot has been ridiculously tough on the Wii U.  Some of it is warranted, but with this one they are just reaching.  Whether or not the game is what everyone wanted from Retro is beside the point.  If we weren't getting a new Donkey Kong for Wii U, Gamespot would probably gripe about that too saying it's a dumb move not to make one of Nintendo's staple games for a struggling system.  It's just absurd.  I didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way, but it's the way it goes sometimes. LOL

[LinkKennedy]

I think 99% of gamers thought Retro would be making a Metroid game so by default making DK side scroller is a disappointment. Still the game looks fantastic and I'm more than sure that the game plays like the last DK it looks pretty much the same which ain't bad.

[Nollog]

That's my point tho, Uncharted does not sell nearly as good as let's say Gran Turismo but Sony pushed that series and gave them the resources to make a top notch quality game. That's what I feel that Nintendo should do but like Sony not abandon their old ip like GT or God of War.

DK sells like rainbow.
They avhe far better platformer games that sell way more.

Yeah after the last of us and I can guarantee they will make another new ip for ps4. I know sony is willing to put more money in than Nintendo but anyone that accepts retro working on a 2d platformer really I just disagree with them. That's like lebron james saying I am done with NBA let me go and try out for a college team...

Retro are alright, the bulk of their recent time has been spent on 2d platformers, not action-shooter games as most of you seem to think.
Their fortae isn't shooting pewpewpew, it's level design and background art, both of those the most important things in platformers.

[3Dude]

LOL, nice call on reading my post.  That comment made you look pretty stupid eh? ;-)


 
That was exactly my point.  It just gets old, and trust me, I read plenty of websites around the internet.  And from what I've seen, and it's no real shocker to anyone else who reads articles, Gamespot has been ridiculously tough on the Wii U.  Some of it is warranted, but with this one they are just reaching.  Whether or not the game is what everyone wanted from Retro is beside the point.  If we weren't getting a new Donkey Kong for Wii U, Gamespot would probably gripe about that too saying it's a dumb move not to make one of Nintendo's staple games for a struggling system.  It's just absurd.  I didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way, but it's the way it goes sometimes. LOL

Jesus how did you learn to type before you learned to read.

NO, me showing they have the balls to choose a HAND HELD TITLE over console games as an extended point AFTER talking about what you did wrong does NOT make me look stupid.

Your continued moronic responses to AN ARTICLE THAT DOESNT EXIST AND THINGS THAT WERE NEVER SAID and your consiistant belief you KNOW what was said despite NOT READING does make you look increasingly dumber.


Just like Tropical Freeze is every bit as beautiful and exacting as you would expect the sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns to be, so too is Cranky an important addition to the banana-collecting escapades. Cranky mimics another elderly hero well-loved within gaming's universe: Scrooge McDuck. The two anthropomorphic explorers make excellent use of their sturdy canes to leap high into the air, landing on hidden plateaus, vanquishing diminutive baddies, and treating spikes as mere decoration. There's a freeing buoyancy to Cranky's movements that serves as a welcome pace change from the heavy Dk
'

OH MY GOD THE BASHING!!! WHY IZ GAMSPOTZ BASHING DK????? UR only SEYIng it sux becauz its on WIII UUU!!!!

'Cranky doesn't play by the rules set by his formidable costar. Spry would be an understatement--an insult--to the monkey who treats gravity like a minor irritant. There are plenty of expected obstacles that make excellent use of Cranky's agility. Pogo across a dangerous bramble patch to reach a secret cove, or bounce high in the air to nab a token that had lain tauntingly out of reach for Donkey Kong. There is no denying that Cranky's addition allows for more expansive and diverse stage design, but that's not what made his appearance so enjoyable to me. With Cranky at the helm, movement is so much less restrictive that I was more willing to take risks.'

OMG GAMSPOTZ!!!! WHY YOU BASHING!??? DONKYZ KONG IZ GOOODZ GAME??!!!

Read. READ THE DAMN ARTICLE. And stop responding to your made up fantasy fanboy bs that only exists in your head.
'

[NintendoReport]

First off, lets not beat around the bush, game reviews are bought. Its not even speculation anymore, or suspicions strongly supported by evidence, game reviews are bought, they are blatant advertising. If you dont pay for a review, your game isnt going to be given the time of day by most reviewers, unless it is something easily familiar and easily digestable to the game reviewer.

Now that thats out of the way, that is some serious cherry picking and straw man making right there.

Metroid is 100% completely mutully exclusive from dudebro shooters, dudebros hate metroid because they are too stupid to play it. Metroid prime was a first person ADVENTURE, it was marketed as first person adventure, and any time anyone said otherwise, retro would correct them. Lumping them together like that is misleading. decieving and incredibly unfair.

At no point in time did tom ever mention he WANTED retro to work on another metroid, he simply used prime as an example of what Retro is capable of that very very very few studios today are. He didnt SAY Donkey Kong was a safe sequel that had no innovation, in fact, he said quite the opposite, spending several paragraphs about what the new characters brought to the game and how much he enjoyed the innovation. He made it very, very clear hes not talking about something as simple as innovation.

Hes talking about a revolution. Something that resonates throughout the industry, transcends genres, and influences game design the way Metroid Prime did. He is VERY well aware that other studios dont do this. He freely admits other studios cant do this, he openly states he is holding retro to a different, higher, standard. He holds retro to a higher standard because they have proved they are capable of MORE. He clearly states these kinds of people are NOT the majority in this industry, they are the exception, which is why he wants THEM to take charge. Because if they dont, well just continue to be crapped into oblivion, buried underneath all the play it safe sequels you are erroneously attempting to use as counterpoints to his argument.

At no point in time did he demand another metroid. In fact, your strawman is just that, a strawman, sure metroid fans would have wanted another metroid from retro, Its been seven years since corruption. Very few people are dissapointed in dk JUST because they wanted another metroid prime. Most of them were excited for ANYTHING Retro could have POSSIBLY done EXCEPT another simplistic 2d platformer. People were busting at the seams for a Retro developed RPG, talking about ravenblade, or a Retro first person RPG like fallout, Or an adventure game, or anything more mentally stimulating than a 2d platformer.

And thats INCLUDING being a Donkey Kong game. Tom McShea makes the same point. Donkey Kong COULD have been that retro game that left himexcited and thinking after he put it down. Even if it was STILL a 2d sidescroller. Like I brought up earlier, fun is NOT mutually exclusive to 2d sidescrollers. In fact, you can have the same exact fantastic platforming in a simplistic level based platformer, in an adventure game that offers MORE.

Retro COULD have turned the dk series from a simplistic 2d level based platformer into a grand adventure. They could have designed a gorgeous persistant world for the player to explore and discover, they could have designed fantastic pacing and progression by having the player discover the different kongs, use their unique abilities to discover new areas, get power ups like diddy's rocket that gives the player that breif boost and can also then grant access to new areas, find cranky's cane now you can pogo enemies, perform fancy manuevers, cane jump over spikes and gain access to new areas, find gloves for donkey kongs, now he can crap in his hands and throw it at enemies, and lob poo bombs over walls to hit switches and gain access to new areas.

It could have been SO. MUCH. MORE.

But instead its just a simplistic by the numbers 2d platformer. Perfectly in line with its snes brethren, Sure its new, and exceptionally well done but there are no surprises, nothing more mentally stimulating than 'jump now'.

Plenty of people are capable of releasing solid to high calibur 2d level based platformers. In fact, there is a vast wealth of them on the wii u right now. But something more? Thats getting increasingly rare. And Im not just talking about 2d platformers here.

[GAMER1984]

the point of this was not to say 2d platformers are bad or that DKTF will be bad. It is just Retro should be doing something beside this. They could give this game to just about any of their developer( i said they have the best) and get a quality product. Retro can do better. plain and simple

[TheDoctor_13]

the point of this was not to say 2d platformers are bad or that DKTF will be bad. It is just Retro should be doing something beside this. They could give this game to just about any of their developer( i said they have the best) and get a quality product. Retro can do better. plain and simple

Well they hired a lot more people earlier, how do you not know Retro isnt working on DKC:TF and Metroid or something else? DKC:TF is just a upgraded DKCR pretty much. So theres all these extra resources to be starting the next project/getting it ready. 

[Thrash13]

Jesus how did you learn to type before you learned to read.

NO, me showing they have the balls to choose a HAND HELD TITLE over console games as an extended point AFTER talking about what you did wrong does NOT make me look stupid.

Your continued moronic responses to AN ARTICLE THAT DOESNT EXIST AND THINGS THAT WERE NEVER SAID and your consiistant belief you KNOW what was said despite NOT READING does make you look increasingly dumber.


Just like Tropical Freeze is every bit as beautiful and exacting as you would expect the sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns to be, so too is Cranky an important addition to the banana-collecting escapades. Cranky mimics another elderly hero well-loved within gaming's universe: Scrooge McDuck. The two anthropomorphic explorers make excellent use of their sturdy canes to leap high into the air, landing on hidden plateaus, vanquishing diminutive baddies, and treating spikes as mere decoration. There's a freeing buoyancy to Cranky's movements that serves as a welcome pace change from the heavy Dk
'

OH MY GOD THE BASHING!!! WHY IZ GAMSPOTZ BASHING DK????? UR only SEYIng it sux becauz its on WIII UUU!!!!

'Cranky doesn't play by the rules set by his formidable costar. Spry would be an understatement--an insult--to the monkey who treats gravity like a minor irritant. There are plenty of expected obstacles that make excellent use of Cranky's agility. Pogo across a dangerous bramble patch to reach a secret cove, or bounce high in the air to nab a token that had lain tauntingly out of reach for Donkey Kong. There is no denying that Cranky's addition allows for more expansive and diverse stage design, but that's not what made his appearance so enjoyable to me. With Cranky at the helm, movement is so much less restrictive that I was more willing to take risks.'

OMG GAMSPOTZ!!!! WHY YOU BASHING!??? DONKYZ KONG IZ GOOODZ GAME??!!!

Read. READ THE DAMN ARTICLE. And stop responding to your made up fantasy fanboy bs that only exists in your head.
'

What, lol? You're really making an ass out of yourself. I read the article before replying and again just for you my good friend.

I don't even own a Wii U. Big time fanboy here though. I'm going to leave this topic alone because I absolutely just got dumber reading all your replies.

Gamespot for the win. Take notice Nintendo! ;-)

Edited by Thrash13, 19 December 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[GAMER1984]

Well they hired a lot more people earlier, how do you not know Retro isnt working on DKC:TF and Metroid or something else? DKC:TF is just a upgraded DKCR pretty much. So theres all these extra resources to be starting the next project/getting it ready. 

 

thats what i am hoping and it make logical sense. I mean come on RETRO you dont hire former Naughty Dog staff for a 2d platformer.

[3Dude]

What, lol? You're really making an ass out of yourself. I read the article before replying and again just for you my good friend.

I don't even own a Wii U. Big time fanboy here though. I'm going to leave this topic alone because I absolutely just got dumber reading all your replies.

Gamespot for the win. Take notice Nintendo! ;-)

Oh really.
 

First off, it's Gamespot.  That makes the article "blah" as far as I'm concerned.  They pick every opportunity they have to trash what Nintendo is doing with the Wii u

actual quotes from article:

Just like Tropical Freeze is every bit as beautiful and exacting as you would expect the sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns to be, so too is Cranky an important addition to the banana-collecting escapades. Cranky mimics another elderly hero well-loved within gaming's universe: Scrooge McDuck. The two anthropomorphic explorers make excellent use of their sturdy canes to leap high into the air, landing on hidden plateaus, vanquishing diminutive baddies, and treating spikes as mere decoration. There's a freeing buoyancy to Cranky's movements that serves as a welcome pace change from the heavy Dk.

Cranky doesn't play by the rules set by his formidable costar. Spry would be an understatement--an insult--to the monkey who treats gravity like a minor irritant. There are plenty of expected obstacles that make excellent use of Cranky's agility. Pogo across a dangerous bramble patch to reach a secret cove, or bounce high in the air to nab a token that had lain tauntingly out of reach for Donkey Kong. There is no denying that Cranky's addition allows for more expansive and diverse stage design, but that's not what made his appearance so enjoyable to me. With Cranky at the helm, movement is so much less restrictive that I was more willing to take risks.'.

Yup, and this stuff is 90% of the article. Nothing but senslessly bashing nintendo and the wii u here, at every possible opportunity

Oh wait, theres none of that at all whatsoever, In fact, wii u isnt mentioned in the article at all let alone bashed, at all, anywhere in the article, you are just lying through your teeth, and I called you out on it... And you still didnt read it.

Or you have the reading comprehension of a monkey.... Take your pick. One things crystal clear though, you have aptly demonstrated you have no clue what this article is about. Despite your insistance on arguing about it.

So tell me, if you acually read the article, twice now, once before you ever commented, why is your argument about 'bashing the wii u at every opportunity', when the wii u is not just not bashed, but not even mentioned in this article at all?

Yeah, whoops.

[Poptartboy]

Do we really have to keep calling each other stupid and typing in capitals? It's a game for christ sake.

[3Dude]

Do we really have to keep calling each other stupid and typing in capitals? It's a game for christ sake.

Its never been about the game. The game is nothing more than a variable that could be replaced by anything. The problem, the issue, has always been this:

www.skepdic.com/haloeffect.html

And its not just him. Pretty much EVERYONE is doing it, COMPLETELY misreading the article (provided they actually READ the article), its intent, and purpose, to the point I feel bad for the reading comprehension portion of their sat's.

[Nintyfan86]

I think 99% of gamers thought Retro would be making a Metroid game so by default making DK side scroller is a disappointment. Still the game looks fantastic and I'm more than sure that the game plays like the last DK it looks pretty much the same which ain't bad.

I share this sentiment. I wonder if there would be so much frustration if third party was date-on-date, and if Wii U was selling better (or rather, offering a similar gaming experience along with Nintendo software that you can get elsewhere). 

 

From what I understand, Retro changed a lot from a staffing standpoint between this game and the last one-let alone the last Metroid. Perhaps this was the best project for the new team to do? 

 

I agree with 3Dude's comments about wanting a game that could be something more than just a platformer, but I am also looking forward to this. If my other thought is correct, this is a required step to get to that industry-influencing title later on.  

[3Dude]

I share this sentiment. I wonder if there would be so much frustration if third party was date-on-date, and if Wii U was selling better (or rather, offering a similar gaming experience along with Nintendo software that you can get elsewhere). 
 
From what I understand, Retro changed a lot from a staffing standpoint between this game and the last one-let alone the last Metroid. Perhaps this was the best project for the new team to do? 
 
I agree with 3Dude's comments about wanting a game that could be something more than just a platformer, but I am also looking forward to this. If my other thought is correct, this is a required step to get to that industry-influencing title later on.

It doesnt even have to be third party, if people had games they wanted to play or hell, if nintendo just occasionally SHOWED a little something that interests them.

Actually, its really not about third parties at all. They shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence with nintendo, because when it comes to what this article is about, they are completely incompetent and worthless. In fact, the author explicitely states such:

Tom McShea: 'I would never insult
Nintendo by mentioning them in
the same breath as Electronic Arts
or Activision, and I'm appalled
that you just did.'

People here seriously need to Read. The. Article and stop responding off of their assumptions.

What these people who are dissapointed with dk are waiting for, has historically been shown, time and again, to only come from nintendo, And Retro just happens to be one of Nintendo's studios that has done it recently. And instead, they are doing a very safe very by the numbers 2d platformer.

Which is pretty much the same thing the rest of the industry is doing. Safe and by the numbers. Which is the problem, for them, its ok, they cant do any better. For Retro, and nintendo, we know they can. Which is why we hold them to a higher standard, making the cries of 'but uncharted 4 is fine right? hur ur' Completely off base and pointless.

Tom McShea: Yes, I do hold Retro
Studios to a higher standard. I say
that in my editorial.

Provided one actually READ the editotial that is.

As for the three senior prime directors (after the first prime) leaving? Best thing that could have possibly happened to the series. Mark Pacini in particular dragged the series further and further down with each entry. The stream lining was devastating, although it never got quite as bad as other M, the next pacini prime probably would have been (talking about world/level design, nothing else).

Although I will never be as harsh a critic as Pacini himself (he called echoes and corruption crap which tarnished what was done with prime) I am excited to see what someone new, fresh brings to the table, considering it was blind pioneering that resulted in prime.

[Poptartboy]

Its never been about the game. The game is nothing more than a variable that could be replaced by anything. The problem, the issue, has always been this:

www.skepdic.com/haloeffect.html

And its not just him. Pretty much EVERYONE is doing it, COMPLETELY misreading the article (provided they actually READ the article), its intent, and purpose, to the point I feel bad for the reading comprehension portion of their sat's.

Yeah but this is a forum not Nazi Germany.

[3Dude]

Yeah but this is a forum not Nazi Germany.

Then perhaps people should try reading things instead of burning them.