64 replies to this topic

[Jikayaki]

Can't see much truth in those.

Surely if there is any truth to these rumours then it's 768Mb(96MB) and not 768MB. However I don't even see that as been true as one thing that we do know is that the chip and eDram will be made using IBM's 45nm node, not 32nm which is where I believe that the 1Gb of eDram becomes possible.

Also from what we have heard about the overall Wii U performance then a quad-core 3Ghz CPU seems overkill. Bear in mind the Xbox triple core isn't comparable to an Out of Order chip. A proper dual-core coming in about ~2.5Ghz would surely be more than enough to feed what will most likely be a custom Redwood core(400SP).

Actually using IBM's edram the maximum amount of edram that can be embedded per core is 32 MBs. That means embedding a total of 96 MBs to 128 MBs is completely possible at the 45nm process. A dual-core wouldn't be enough. For one thing I have no idea where you came up with the idea that the Wii U uses a custom 400SP GPU. All the leaks and rumors point to something more around 640SP to 800SP. A custom gpu around the capability of a 4770 or 4850 is highly likely.

[Medu]

Actually using IBM's edram the maximum amount of edram that can be embedded per core is 32 MBs. That means embedding a total of 96 MBs to 128 MBs is completely possible at the 45nm process. A dual-core wouldn't be enough. For one thing I have no idea where you came up with the idea that the Wii U uses a custom 400SP GPU. All the leaks and rumors point to something more around 640SP to 800SP. A custom gpu around the capability of a 4770 or 4850 is highly likely.

Firstly, I don't have much knowledge of the power 6/7 architectures so I could be completely wrong.

AFAIK it's 32MB per chip, so 4MB per core.

A dual-core can process 8 threads and a quad 16. There is no way that Nintendo will need that much power- it would also need some very fancy cooling given the space required. Thermals cannot be ignored, especially as Nintendo aren't used very advanced nodes(45nm, 40nm). The Wii used 20watts while a single core Power7 chip uses a similar amount!

The reason I believe it will be a custom 400SP(possible 320SP) is because of what we have heard officially from devs and even Nintendo themselves. Everyone seems to agree that it's faster than the current gen, but not much faster. If it was a 640-800SP then it would be ~3 times more powerful. Thermals are again an issue as 640-800SP would probably require at least 50watts.

Also even if it does have a 800SP chip I still believe that a dual-core could feed it.

Remember, when they make a console now, it will be around for five to ten years. It needs to be over kill.

Nintendo doesn't work that way. Nintendo design products for now, not the future. Also there is no point putting a quadcore CPU to future proof a system without adding a equally powerful GPU.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

Nintendo doesn't work that way. Nintendo design products for now, not the future.

look im no tech expert but nintendo doesn't design for the future? are you sure? the snes could handle 3d to a certain extent . The n64 was 64 bit while sega and sony had 32 bit consoles, wii started with motion controls before microsoft & sony, i could keep going but i wont lol u get the point

[Medu]

look im no tech expert but nintendo doesn't design for the future? are you sure? the snes could handle 3d to a certain extent . The n64 was 64 bit while sega and sony had 32 bit consoles, wii started with motion controls before microsoft & sony, i could keep going but i wont lol u get the point

The snes could do 3d when they put a 3d chip in the game carts, years after release.

64bit didn't extend the life of the n64.

The wii remote is a perfect example of nintendo been short sighted-it should of had the plus baked in from the start.

Nintendo do lots of things better than others but long term thinking isn't one of them.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

The snes could do 3d when they put a 3d chip in the game carts, years after release.

64bit didn't extend the life of the n64.

The wii remote is a perfect example of nintendo been short sighted-it should of had the plus baked in from the start.

Nintendo do lots of things better than others but long term thinking isn't one of them.

what has microsoft any sony done for the future? dlc? thats all i see
plus nintendo will have full and flexible dlc on wii u . also on 3ds

Edited by hardcoreUfan, 04 December 2011 - 06:32 PM.

[Medu]

what has microsoft any sony done for the future? dlc? thats all i see
plus nintendo will have full and flexible dlc on wii u . also on 3ds

We are getting off topic. There is a difference between future proofing and been innovative. Nintendo innovates but it doesn't really future proof. To future proof a company really needs to take short term pain for long term gain(Of course the risk there is that if the short term pain turn into long term...)

[mrback]

There's still some pretty amazing visuals coming from the current gen & some of the stuff for 2012 looks amazing. Tomb Raider & Hitman being a couple of examples. I'd be really happy if the WiiU knocks out 1080p 60fps with the games that are released. I wasnt too excited about WiiU initially but after doing a bit of research & watching some of the vid's that are knocking about I'm pretty stoked for it now
Somebody said that the WiiU is what nintendo should have released when the Wii was released which I think is a bit harsh but if they had made it just 720p I'm sure they would have got a couple of more years out of it.
The form factor of the WiiU is quite small so I'm not sure how much beef you can fit inside the thing, I havent built a pc for about 5 years though, ha ha

[Tre]

We are getting off topic. There is a difference between future proofing and been innovative. Nintendo innovates but it doesn't really future proof. To future proof a company really needs to take short term pain for long term gain(Of course the risk there is that if the short term pain turn into long term...)

You do realize that the Wii was the only console that was considered under powered. It is funny that people forget so easily. The only reason for the difference in the this generation was the tv format change. If it wasn't for that this generation would have been pretty even and cost would have been around the same. Nintendo felt people wasn't ready for HD and there was a lot of families/people that wasn't ready and still are not ready. This current generation doesn't do native 1080p. The leaked specs aren't the current dev kits. Wii U hardware news have been slow so they had to bring up old news.

[DigitalHardCore]

Maybe here all you can find some concrete information about CPU and this dram memory.
This is an exclusive IBM system.

http://www-03.ibm.co...photo/34681.wss


In my opinion, using this dram and together the same RAM memory used with cube and wii (1T-Ram), this console will be Unbeatable.
dram is 3x more efficiente than cache (L1 L2 etc)
1t-ram is 8x more efficient than ddr2


IBM and Nintendo still in love business since 1999.
Thsi will go on.

[Medu]

You do realize that the Wii was the only console that was considered under powered. It is funny that people forget so easily. The only reason for the difference in the this generation was the tv format change. If it wasn't for that this generation would have been pretty even and cost would have been around the same. Nintendo felt people wasn't ready for HD and there was a lot of families/people that wasn't ready and still are not ready. This current generation doesn't do native 1080p. The leaked specs aren't the current dev kits. Wii U hardware news have been slow so they had to bring up old news.

Res change was certainly a part of it and I don't expect anywhere near the same leap next time around. The worry for Nintendo isn't that users won't think the hardware is powerful enough it's that devs won't. Nintendo got away with poor 3rd party support on the Wii because the controller was such an a simple concept to sell to people- even if it didn't do what people expected it to. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the new controller will have the same pulling power hence Nintendo will need to do a much better job of attracting quality 3rd party games.

[AudieMurphy]

EDRAM not dram IBM-EDRAM the fastest smallest most catch like edram ever created 768mb=96MB 1gb=128MB this leak refers to the “““embedded dram””” EDRAM not ram its a shared level 3 catch for both cpu and gpu

example x360 10MB gpu only/wii 3MB gpu only /psp 2MB gpu only

wiiu if rumors are true 96MB TO 128MB EDRAM CPU-GPU SHARED thats 9x x360 and 2x wii edram COMBINED

that is POWER

it wont be cpu catch it will be a onchip edram pool that cpus and gpus share it wont be a cpu l3 catch it will be a gpu/cpu virtual catch it will act like 1t-sram in wii A ON CHIP FAST RAM this makes me think its not power 7 but 3/4 powerpc cpus

[Eskimo_sam]

EDRAM not dram IBM-EDRAM the fastest smallest most catch like edram ever created 768mb=96MB 1gb=128MB this leak refers to the “““embedded dram””” EDRAM not ram its a shared level 3 catch for both cpu and gpu

example x360 10MB gpu only/wii 3MB gpu only /psp 2MB gpu only

wiiu if rumors are true 96MB TO 128MB EDRAM CPU-GPU SHARED thats 9x x360 and 2x wii edram COMBINED

that is POWER

it wont be cpu catch it will be a onchip edram pool that cpus and gpus share it wont be a cpu l3 catch it will be a gpu/cpu virtual catch it will act like 1t-sram in wii A ON CHIP FAST RAM this makes me think its not power 7 but 3/4 powerpc cpus

yeah what he said!!!

[AudieMurphy]

power7 has level 3 catch its ether that with a gpu link (weird) or its a pool of edram shared like a super ram fast and high bandwidth ether way its cool and the gang

[Medu]

EDRAM not dram IBM-EDRAM the fastest smallest most catch like edram ever created 768mb=96MB 1gb=128MB this leak refers to the “““embedded dram””” EDRAM not ram its a shared level 3 catch for both cpu and gpu

example x360 10MB gpu only/wii 3MB gpu only /psp 2MB gpu only

wiiu if rumors are true 96MB TO 128MB EDRAM CPU-GPU SHARED thats 9x x360 and 2x wii edram COMBINED

that is POWER

it wont be cpu catch it will be a onchip edram pool that cpus and gpus share it wont be a cpu l3 catch it will be a gpu/cpu virtual catch it will act like 1t-sram in wii A ON CHIP FAST RAM this makes me think its not power 7 but 3/4 powerpc cpus

It's highly unlike that the 768Mb/96MB rumour is true, it's overkill. (Unless it's needed to help with ~2 controller screens, but even then it wouldn't need 96MB). If there is truth in the story it's more likely that Nintendo deciding on whether to use 768MB or 1GB for just normal RAM which would tie in with what we have heard about the performance- faster than the Xbox360 but not too much. Quad-core is possible but I agree that it won't be a quad-core Power7 chip. IBM have a number of different cores that could possible be used and some use only a couple of watts each @2GHz. It's just a little confusing as IBM did mention watson but that could of related to anything(such as the edram).

Edited by Medu, 08 December 2011 - 12:52 PM.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

There's still some pretty amazing visuals coming from the current gen & some of the stuff for 2012 looks amazing. Tomb Raider & Hitman being a couple of examples. I'd be really happy if the WiiU knocks out 1080p 60fps with the games that are released. I wasnt too excited about WiiU initially but after doing a bit of research & watching some of the vid's that are knocking about I'm pretty stoked for it now
Somebody said that the WiiU is what nintendo should have released when the Wii was released which I think is a bit harsh but if they had made it just 720p I'm sure they would have got a couple of more years out of it.
The form factor of the WiiU is quite small so I'm not sure how much beef you can fit inside the thing, I havent built a pc for about 5 years though, ha ha

wii u apparently does full 1080p by 1080p hd. there are a lot of nice looking games coming out next year i agree. But if someone says the wii u shouldve been released the beginning of this gen is just insane. the thing would probably cost more than the ps3 if not double. the specs would kick the 360 and ps3 in the *** if it was released years ago. you could fit a lot in the console actually i think its roughly the size of a slim ps3 or 360 . there could be a lot of smaller parts that are very powerful. so you may never know. wii u is also still kindof on the drawing board since its not on its final dev kit anyway .

[mrback]

I was just thinking that if nintendo had spent a bit more on the Wii & not been so concerned in making a big profit on each one sold that they could have stuck a hdmi & made it 720p. Then they could have got another 18 months at least out of the current Wii. I must admit & did prefer it when the hardware cycle was around every 4-5 years. It gave the industry a shot in the arm every few years but console's are lastin longer & longer. God know's how long after the next gen will be!

[Randomite]

i so agree with you here. if nintendo had made this move with Wii it would have gotten more life with it. also sony would have had no shot at releasing ps move. nintendo would have sold over 100 million wii's already

I do happen to disagree, I think if Nintendo went down the power route (despite having the Wii mote) I feel they would of struggled. One of the big pluses for the Wii was it was affordable (in my opinion) and adding the likes of HDMI components and making the console run at 720p would of ramped the price up, thus making the Wii somewhat less appealing.

[mrback]

I'm not a programmer or hardware genius so I'm not that savvy with the current Wii specs but could have been that difficult to have made it 720p? I'm not sure what they would have had to have added to make this an option. I think having a bit of extra oomph & HD would have made the Wii more appealing to hardcore crowd & probably would have had more third party support. They would have had both bases covered in the casual/family crowd they really cornered with the Wii & the people who went with 360/PS3. This seems to be what they are doing with WiiU as they finally have a machine what can do both sides of the market really well. In terms of motion gaming the new Zelda game is the most impressive I've experienced, I've tried loads of kinect & PS move games but wasnt overly impressed. Really hoping the WiiU is truly next gen & not just a notch up from the current crowd but wouldnt be too bothered in all honesty. To be able to play some of the classic nintendo brands in HD will be great

[Medu]

I'm not a programmer or hardware genius so I'm not that savvy with the current Wii specs but could have been that difficult to have made it 720p? I'm not sure what they would have had to have added to make this an option. I think having a bit of extra oomph & HD would have made the Wii more appealing to hardcore crowd & probably would have had more third party support.

The Wii has about 1/10th of the power of the PS360 consoles, so yes, HD would of required A LOT extra. Even both those consoles struggle with true HD and very often it's sub HD up scaled to HD. At the time of launch to make the Wii HD would of required a MUCH larger console and at least an extra $100 on the price tag(Or Nintendo would of needed to take $100 less profit from each sale- i.e a loss). You really need to thing of the business side as well. Nintendo are going to sell 100m Wii's so even making $20 less from each console sold means $2 BILLION less in profits. That is why they are so ruthless with there specs.