Alot of people have been saying(on Youtube) that Miis should just stay away from the WiiU because of the "hardcore" stuff and Nintendo must make a super realistic avatar. I Like Miis and i think they are cute. They could have a little bit more details(and arms and legs, and thumbs, and toes, and.. nvm).
I hope Nintendo doesnt listen to them and keep the miis!
Bye Bye Miis?
Started by Two-Tailed Link!, Jan 06 2012 07:38 AM
41 replies to this topic
#1
Two-Tailed Link!
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:38 AM
KID ICARUS UPRISING FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#2
Hank Hill
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:46 AM
Alot of people have been saying(on Youtube) that Miis should just stay away from the WiiU because of the "hardcore" stuff and Nintendo must make a super realistic avatar. I Like Miis and i think they are cute. They could have a little bit more details(and arms and legs, and thumbs, and toes, and.. nvm).
I hope Nintendo doesnt listen to them and keep the miis!
Uh...so what does that make the Xbox avatars? They look practically the same...forget the people on youtube, they're morons. They just want Nintendo to become another Sony/Microsoft clone. (AKA: Not innovating whatsoever and literally rehashing the same gameplay over and over...but it's in HD, so I guess it's legit, right?
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#3
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:47 AM
I want them out. But Nintendo will keep them. I don't want to play as mii in-game. It's ridiculous. Only if they stayed away from the games, I'd be cool about it.
Edited by Metroid, 06 January 2012 - 07:54 AM.
#4
Deadly Virus
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:29 AM
Miis should definitely stay, but they desperately need an upgrade. Those PS2-style graphics may look fine on the 3DS and Wii miis, but on the Wii U they're going to look absolutely horrid. I want them to go more in the direction of the 360's avatars, making them much more graphically detailed and with a lot more customization but keeping the cutesy art style to them. Well, as long as Nintendo doesn't pull a Microsoft and charges us for crappy game-related clothing and accessories.. :/
#5
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:55 AM
i have full confidense nintendo will make the right decision, whatever that may be, they have really really impressed me lately with decision making 
i think miis should and will stay but i agree, some improvement should be done
i think miis should and will stay but i agree, some improvement should be done
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#6
Ponkotsu
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:43 AM
POPULAR
Considering how beloved the Miis are, they should definitely stick around, but all the more improvements they can make to them, the better. They should be central in our online identity - just as we have a Mii set as our personal identity on the 3DS too - and they should definitely make sure that they retain the kind of charm they have now and the same level of creativity in design.
Going for an ultra-realistic push and basically trying to follow Sony and Microsoft - which went off a cliff together financially in pursuit of the so-called 'hardcore' - would be one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo could make. As would be a full on refocus away from the Wii remote, nunchuk, and motion controls that made the Wii so popular this generation - they've already confirmed they'll still be used, which is a first positive - to instead fixate on a return to 'traditional' game controls with some basic touchscreen enhancements with the new tablet controller. We've seen for some time now how traditional controls and increasingly conservative adherence to them - as we've seen with Sony and Microsoft - lead to inevitably unintuitive and intimidating controllers with too many buttons and a distinct lack of real progress in gameplay design.
Refocusing on the so-called 'hardcore' and trying to follow Sony and Microsoft's current self-destructive path with a return to traditional controls over forward-thinking ones - and even the Wii U unveil trailer focused on trying to find forward-thinking ways to use the new tablet controller as opposed to the same old - would be the worst turn Nintendo could take going into this next generation. The 'hardcore' can complain about Nintendo all they want, but appealing to the mass market is far more important with a broad variety of games, gameplay styles, and visual styles, as well as appealing, accessible controls. Rather than pursuing the PS3 and 360's destructive, conservative path, the Wii U definitely needs to follow a path much like the 3DS is - pursuing 'core' gamers more aggressively, certainly, and working on getting the third party support that the Wii earned but never received (Hence the awful financial state much of the video game industry is now in, the average PS3 and 360 title these days not making a profit, where a small number of major western blockbusters actually do each year), but essentially continuing the spirit of the Wii and DS going forward and retaining their mass appeal while working to bring the competition's support on board.
We're already seeing this with the 3DS visibly taking off in the mainstream now with more mass market titles hitting and the 3DS functioning as not just a successor for the DS, but the PSP as well in Japan - the only region where the PSP ever actually took off. The 'core' or 'hardcore' audience and 'casual' or otherwise mass market audience are in no way mutually exclusive as they're often treated. DS game sales and even Wii game sales - as little credit as they ever get for the fact that 'core' games made money far more consistently on the Wii than PS3 and Xbox 360 - proved this, as did PS2 software sales (Though the system suffered a relatively low attach rate despite its massive market penetration, in clear part due to the average person's discomfort with how clunky and unintuitive the Dualshock controller was - a clear example of the traditional controller becoming too complicated for the mass market. Simplicity is always important in controller design - the Wii in particular reminded of that.), and the PSX, SNES, and NES. The mass market is always the most important market, and it wasn't until this generation that we saw the industry trying to artificially divide itself while sneering at so many of its potential customers in the process with all the 'hardcore' and 'casual' nonsense we've heard this generation.
So, in summation, what Nintendo needs to do is not to 'focus on the hardcore,' but simply work themselves and with third parties to absorb an even larger audience from the competition again - like they are with the 3DS - but to continue to focus on the same mass market appeal the Wii and DS have enjoyed and figure out new ways to keep the mass market engaged. And making bolder use of Miis in all sorts of games and allowing people to socialize more online through them - as in my Miitropolis idea in a previous thread on this board - would definitely be a good leap forward to take with the huge leap they're preparing to take with their online services this year. The Miis should be an evolving concept, and the more they can be used to appeal to the mass market audience that loves them, the better.
Nintendo pulled off mass market motion controls where Move was pretty much dead on arrival and Kinect saw very mixed results and less than a full year of real mass market interest. Nintendo pulled off the only avatar system that really endeared itself to the mass market and saw meaningful extensive use this generation with Miis, where avatars were a largely unwanted feature on the 360 and Home didn't exactly take off in any big way on the PS3 either. Going into this next generation, as with the DS, Nintendo has the brand advantage and a good impression on the mass market all around - we've already seen that Sony hasn't learned anything from their mistakes with the Vita's dire opening, and Microsoft hasn't exactly demonstrated that they have any understanding of how to make money in the industry either, with the Xbox brand a little over a decade old now and still without any actual profit to show for it, and only a very narrow audience. Both are launching into next generation without a hint of understanding how to appeal to - or any real evident respect for - the wider market after their cynical attempts to draw their interest with Move and Kinect this generation didn't take long to go south, and they're caught between a rock and a hard place in terms of hardware design: PS3 and 360 game development was simply too expensive, demanding far too many millions of dollars in investment per game and game sales that both platforms' narrow audiences could not keep high enough to make the majority of games profitable, with very few types of games actually seeing the 1.5+ million copies sold needed on average to break even, let alone turn a profit.
Similarly, the Vita's facing the burden of raising costs dramatically on both developers and customers at a point at which much of the industry is absolutely battered by all the money lost across the PS3 and Xbox 360, as they attempted to work with Sony and Microsoft respectively to force customers away from the Wii, with financially catastrophic results instead. The industry as a whole isn't in a good position to start supporting a very expensive new portable - as we're seeing with incredibly little proven Vita support - let alone one with extremely little audience. Sony and Microsoft are under incredible pressure from their current followings to launch new consoles that take another gigantic leap forward in hardware power, ensuring many billions in losses for both companies and another huge surge in development costs, the likes of which the industry cannot afford when it couldn't even afford the PS3 and 360's costs on average this generation. Thus, all the developer collapses we saw this generation, as well as all the mergers, and the financial reports with many companies formerly thought to always be healthy crumbling internally and laying off tons of employees thanks to the losses incurred through Sony and Microsoft support that few had the wisdom to halt. This generation became a losing war of brandname loyalty and 'hardcore' identity nonsense fought against the mass market and sustainable budgets - hence the average Wii game actually making money, and for a long time, Wii development being used to finance big budget PS3 and 360 flops. When that stopped happening and most third parties tried to drop the Wii entirely over the past couple of years, developer and publisher bottom lines fell through the floor as they still failed to actually make money on most PS3 and 360 releases.
For the first time, the industry's getting ready to move into a new generation wherein the industry as a whole is in very rough shape, in no way enjoying the surplusses the PS2 era ended with. If Sony and Microsoft launch the incredible powerhouses their followings demand, they would be too expensive for both developers and customers - much as we're already seeing with Sony's Vita falling on its face right out the door - especially taking into account the awful state of the global economy. Gaming platforms are in no way sustainable as 'premium' or 'luxury' items, like Sony and Microsoft have tried to make them, and the financial catastrophe this generation has been for pretty much everyone but Nintendo and the few companies more focused on supporting them has made that very clear. After a straight decade of billions in losses with the Xbox line so far, one has to wonder how much more Microsoft's shareholders will take before the product line is eventually ended - much like the Zune was last year - and in Sony's case, between the PS3 eating the PSX and PS2's profits and the PSP in no way subsidizing the rest of their losses (The company has more debt than they're bringing in money by miles), it would be incredibly foolish to launch a PS4 anytime soon with the current state they're in, and the Vita's visible trajectory.
If Sony and Microsoft try to launch another pair of huge-leap-forward 'premium' consoles like the PS3 and 360, we're going to see third parties devastated further and more companies go out of business, while surging development costs set virtually impossible to meet sales requirements for profitability.
Nintendo, on the other hand, has made clear that while the Wii U will be more powerful than the PS3 and 360, they're designing it to keep development on lower budgets than on the PS3 and 360 viable, and to allow a place for small companies to continue onward on consoles, where the PS3 and 360 shut them out. At this point, the next generation is pretty much Nintendo's to lose so long as they continue to learn from both their own mistakes and those of the competition, forging their own path forward with the 3DS and Wii U like they did with the DS and Wii. Affordability to both developers and customers is vital, as is avoiding the ridiculous image bickering over nonsense like 'casual' and 'hardcore' labels. We're already seeing a surprising number of major western PS3 and 360 titles slated for the Wii U this year, many developers and publishers visibly eager for what Nintendo's powerful new platform represents in contrast to Sony and Microsoft - the possibility of a huge HD console that has a definite good shot at being the market leader this next generation too, allowing a lot of the kinds of games made for the PS3 and 360 this gen to find a full-on mass market audience at last with Nintendo. As for the rest of the third parties, it's largely a matter of letting go of the 'casual' and 'kiddy' nonsense they tried to cling to with the Wii while the PS3 and 360 were burning them and refocusing on where the market actually is - just as we're seeing with many titles expected for the PSP and Vita audiences instead going exclusively to the 3DS now. If Sony and Microsoft try to launch new consoles in 2013 or 2014 that aren't premium, but a slight jump ahead to try to match the Wii U's hardware, they'll inevitably arrive too late to compete or make much of a difference, and they'll see their own respective audiences furious that they didn't push the graphical ceiling as high as they could again, suicidal cost to developers be damned. Going into this next generation, both are in a significantly worse position than Nintendo, just as we've seen playing out with the new portables already.
The new generation is, in many ways, Nintendo's to lose.
Going for an ultra-realistic push and basically trying to follow Sony and Microsoft - which went off a cliff together financially in pursuit of the so-called 'hardcore' - would be one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo could make. As would be a full on refocus away from the Wii remote, nunchuk, and motion controls that made the Wii so popular this generation - they've already confirmed they'll still be used, which is a first positive - to instead fixate on a return to 'traditional' game controls with some basic touchscreen enhancements with the new tablet controller. We've seen for some time now how traditional controls and increasingly conservative adherence to them - as we've seen with Sony and Microsoft - lead to inevitably unintuitive and intimidating controllers with too many buttons and a distinct lack of real progress in gameplay design.
Refocusing on the so-called 'hardcore' and trying to follow Sony and Microsoft's current self-destructive path with a return to traditional controls over forward-thinking ones - and even the Wii U unveil trailer focused on trying to find forward-thinking ways to use the new tablet controller as opposed to the same old - would be the worst turn Nintendo could take going into this next generation. The 'hardcore' can complain about Nintendo all they want, but appealing to the mass market is far more important with a broad variety of games, gameplay styles, and visual styles, as well as appealing, accessible controls. Rather than pursuing the PS3 and 360's destructive, conservative path, the Wii U definitely needs to follow a path much like the 3DS is - pursuing 'core' gamers more aggressively, certainly, and working on getting the third party support that the Wii earned but never received (Hence the awful financial state much of the video game industry is now in, the average PS3 and 360 title these days not making a profit, where a small number of major western blockbusters actually do each year), but essentially continuing the spirit of the Wii and DS going forward and retaining their mass appeal while working to bring the competition's support on board.
We're already seeing this with the 3DS visibly taking off in the mainstream now with more mass market titles hitting and the 3DS functioning as not just a successor for the DS, but the PSP as well in Japan - the only region where the PSP ever actually took off. The 'core' or 'hardcore' audience and 'casual' or otherwise mass market audience are in no way mutually exclusive as they're often treated. DS game sales and even Wii game sales - as little credit as they ever get for the fact that 'core' games made money far more consistently on the Wii than PS3 and Xbox 360 - proved this, as did PS2 software sales (Though the system suffered a relatively low attach rate despite its massive market penetration, in clear part due to the average person's discomfort with how clunky and unintuitive the Dualshock controller was - a clear example of the traditional controller becoming too complicated for the mass market. Simplicity is always important in controller design - the Wii in particular reminded of that.), and the PSX, SNES, and NES. The mass market is always the most important market, and it wasn't until this generation that we saw the industry trying to artificially divide itself while sneering at so many of its potential customers in the process with all the 'hardcore' and 'casual' nonsense we've heard this generation.
So, in summation, what Nintendo needs to do is not to 'focus on the hardcore,' but simply work themselves and with third parties to absorb an even larger audience from the competition again - like they are with the 3DS - but to continue to focus on the same mass market appeal the Wii and DS have enjoyed and figure out new ways to keep the mass market engaged. And making bolder use of Miis in all sorts of games and allowing people to socialize more online through them - as in my Miitropolis idea in a previous thread on this board - would definitely be a good leap forward to take with the huge leap they're preparing to take with their online services this year. The Miis should be an evolving concept, and the more they can be used to appeal to the mass market audience that loves them, the better.
Nintendo pulled off mass market motion controls where Move was pretty much dead on arrival and Kinect saw very mixed results and less than a full year of real mass market interest. Nintendo pulled off the only avatar system that really endeared itself to the mass market and saw meaningful extensive use this generation with Miis, where avatars were a largely unwanted feature on the 360 and Home didn't exactly take off in any big way on the PS3 either. Going into this next generation, as with the DS, Nintendo has the brand advantage and a good impression on the mass market all around - we've already seen that Sony hasn't learned anything from their mistakes with the Vita's dire opening, and Microsoft hasn't exactly demonstrated that they have any understanding of how to make money in the industry either, with the Xbox brand a little over a decade old now and still without any actual profit to show for it, and only a very narrow audience. Both are launching into next generation without a hint of understanding how to appeal to - or any real evident respect for - the wider market after their cynical attempts to draw their interest with Move and Kinect this generation didn't take long to go south, and they're caught between a rock and a hard place in terms of hardware design: PS3 and 360 game development was simply too expensive, demanding far too many millions of dollars in investment per game and game sales that both platforms' narrow audiences could not keep high enough to make the majority of games profitable, with very few types of games actually seeing the 1.5+ million copies sold needed on average to break even, let alone turn a profit.
Similarly, the Vita's facing the burden of raising costs dramatically on both developers and customers at a point at which much of the industry is absolutely battered by all the money lost across the PS3 and Xbox 360, as they attempted to work with Sony and Microsoft respectively to force customers away from the Wii, with financially catastrophic results instead. The industry as a whole isn't in a good position to start supporting a very expensive new portable - as we're seeing with incredibly little proven Vita support - let alone one with extremely little audience. Sony and Microsoft are under incredible pressure from their current followings to launch new consoles that take another gigantic leap forward in hardware power, ensuring many billions in losses for both companies and another huge surge in development costs, the likes of which the industry cannot afford when it couldn't even afford the PS3 and 360's costs on average this generation. Thus, all the developer collapses we saw this generation, as well as all the mergers, and the financial reports with many companies formerly thought to always be healthy crumbling internally and laying off tons of employees thanks to the losses incurred through Sony and Microsoft support that few had the wisdom to halt. This generation became a losing war of brandname loyalty and 'hardcore' identity nonsense fought against the mass market and sustainable budgets - hence the average Wii game actually making money, and for a long time, Wii development being used to finance big budget PS3 and 360 flops. When that stopped happening and most third parties tried to drop the Wii entirely over the past couple of years, developer and publisher bottom lines fell through the floor as they still failed to actually make money on most PS3 and 360 releases.
For the first time, the industry's getting ready to move into a new generation wherein the industry as a whole is in very rough shape, in no way enjoying the surplusses the PS2 era ended with. If Sony and Microsoft launch the incredible powerhouses their followings demand, they would be too expensive for both developers and customers - much as we're already seeing with Sony's Vita falling on its face right out the door - especially taking into account the awful state of the global economy. Gaming platforms are in no way sustainable as 'premium' or 'luxury' items, like Sony and Microsoft have tried to make them, and the financial catastrophe this generation has been for pretty much everyone but Nintendo and the few companies more focused on supporting them has made that very clear. After a straight decade of billions in losses with the Xbox line so far, one has to wonder how much more Microsoft's shareholders will take before the product line is eventually ended - much like the Zune was last year - and in Sony's case, between the PS3 eating the PSX and PS2's profits and the PSP in no way subsidizing the rest of their losses (The company has more debt than they're bringing in money by miles), it would be incredibly foolish to launch a PS4 anytime soon with the current state they're in, and the Vita's visible trajectory.
If Sony and Microsoft try to launch another pair of huge-leap-forward 'premium' consoles like the PS3 and 360, we're going to see third parties devastated further and more companies go out of business, while surging development costs set virtually impossible to meet sales requirements for profitability.
Nintendo, on the other hand, has made clear that while the Wii U will be more powerful than the PS3 and 360, they're designing it to keep development on lower budgets than on the PS3 and 360 viable, and to allow a place for small companies to continue onward on consoles, where the PS3 and 360 shut them out. At this point, the next generation is pretty much Nintendo's to lose so long as they continue to learn from both their own mistakes and those of the competition, forging their own path forward with the 3DS and Wii U like they did with the DS and Wii. Affordability to both developers and customers is vital, as is avoiding the ridiculous image bickering over nonsense like 'casual' and 'hardcore' labels. We're already seeing a surprising number of major western PS3 and 360 titles slated for the Wii U this year, many developers and publishers visibly eager for what Nintendo's powerful new platform represents in contrast to Sony and Microsoft - the possibility of a huge HD console that has a definite good shot at being the market leader this next generation too, allowing a lot of the kinds of games made for the PS3 and 360 this gen to find a full-on mass market audience at last with Nintendo. As for the rest of the third parties, it's largely a matter of letting go of the 'casual' and 'kiddy' nonsense they tried to cling to with the Wii while the PS3 and 360 were burning them and refocusing on where the market actually is - just as we're seeing with many titles expected for the PSP and Vita audiences instead going exclusively to the 3DS now. If Sony and Microsoft try to launch new consoles in 2013 or 2014 that aren't premium, but a slight jump ahead to try to match the Wii U's hardware, they'll inevitably arrive too late to compete or make much of a difference, and they'll see their own respective audiences furious that they didn't push the graphical ceiling as high as they could again, suicidal cost to developers be damned. Going into this next generation, both are in a significantly worse position than Nintendo, just as we've seen playing out with the new portables already.
The new generation is, in many ways, Nintendo's to lose.
#7
HaoSenVastForest
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:57 AM
I would think that it would really suck to have a counsel without Miis. Because the Miis just give a quality that is rather fun! I also think that Nintendo will keep them no matter what em haters have to say because they kinda had the E3 stuff revolving around the Miis quite a bit. Like Super Mario Mii and that video where there are cross hairs and you were trying to snipe out the Iwatta Mii. So I dont really think that they will give up the Miis any time soon.
In a world of Gray and black there is nothing here to take back...
(Words from your local demon and leader of the army of darkness)
#8
Link707
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:47 PM
Ponkotsu.... Wow
Also I like the miis because it's nintendos own brand of avatars which have become common nowadays
Also I like the miis because it's nintendos own brand of avatars which have become common nowadays
#9
Tipzil
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Posted 06 January 2012 - 01:48 PM
well, there VERY popular
I read something about miis saying theres enough just in Europe to form a whole Mii Country the size of America!
I read something about miis saying theres enough just in Europe to form a whole Mii Country the size of America!
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"I wombo, you wombo, he, she, me wombo, the study of womboligy, come on Spongebob, this is first grade!" ~ Patrick, Spongebob Squarepants
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#10
Auzzie Wingman
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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:56 AM
At the very least they could make it so you could dress your Mii up, and make an MMORPG software that goes along with Miis being used as characters.
Trophy Cards are classy too! LOLZIGZAGOON
#11
Guy Fieri
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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:35 AM
I think Mii's are staying. Nintendo has used them in some of the Wii U tech demos at E3. Plus if Nintendo wants the Wii series to keep going ( Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play etc) they would have to keep the Mii's. Personally I like the Mii characters, it kind of springs some sort of life into the Wii Sports games.
#12
Meelow100
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Posted 08 January 2012 - 09:47 AM
Miis should definitely stay, but they desperately need an upgrade. Those PS2-style graphics may look fine on the 3DS and Wii miis, but on the Wii U they're going to look absolutely horrid. I want them to go more in the direction of the 360's avatars, making them much more graphically detailed and with a lot more customization but keeping the cutesy art style to them. Well, as long as Nintendo doesn't pull a Microsoft and charges us for crappy game-related clothing and accessories.. :/
^This
#13
Nintendoes
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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:15 PM
I think they should make arms and legs for Mii's. If they do please make them realistic like the Xbox Avatars. However, Keep the face and the body's general appearance the same. That would most likely make them cutesy but realistic
Edited by Nintendoes, 08 January 2012 - 01:17 PM.
#15
westimo
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:57 PM
I want mii's to stay but with more options, costumes etc
3DS FC: 1633-4203-9844 Pm me and I'll add back 
#17
westimo
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:08 PM
Damn, you beat me to it.
obviously great minds think a like
3DS FC: 1633-4203-9844 Pm me and I'll add back
#18
Sage
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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:10 PM
I'm fine with the mii's staying, just like others said it would be nice if they were more detailed and could do more with their appearance.
#19
Auzzie Wingman
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Posted 11 January 2012 - 02:52 AM
Lol, that's what Ponkotsu does best.That was an incredible post Pokotsu. I read every bit of it and I cannot find a word of fault.
We should totally make a thread dedicated to Ponkotsu.
Trophy Cards are classy too! LOLZIGZAGOON
#20
MoH
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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:41 AM
I think they should stay. It's fun making lots of wacky characters! 
But yeah, they need an upgrade or else they'll look graphically dated on Wii U.
But yeah, they need an upgrade or else they'll look graphically dated on Wii U.
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