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FAST RACING NEO... first screenshots!


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#21 Lupaie

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:37 AM


Cinema 4d's 'instance' is just a duplicate, you can do whatever you want to it afterwards, its not a real instance, and has its own draw call.

You can not even begin to attempt to compare a real runtime environment to a modeling environment like cinema 4d, maya, or 3d studio max, its incredibly disingenious.


I understand. Because you don't have to use a game engine.

Did you know, in Cinema4D Render Instances really don't have their own call. I use it a lot to easy up the scene because sometimes, even with modeling environments things can become a bit heavy.

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#22 3Dude

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 12:14 PM

I understand. Because you don't have to use a game engine.

Did you know, in Cinema4D Render Instances really don't have their own call. I use it a lot to easy up the scene because sometimes, even with modeling environments things can become a bit heavy.


Maxon must have updated cloner objects to speed up rendering on lowered specced machines. Though if I recall low specced does not exactly describe your rig. Render calls are cpu heavy, and on pc, they have an ungodly amount of layers they have to pass through, which is why they can be so demanding on seemingly powerful rigs. Fortunately thats not the case on consoles, and the wii u in particular is powerful with its effeciency of draw calls.

Just to put things in perspective on overhead and hardware restrictions, the hardware environment this game is running in has a far, far, FAR weaker gpu than the one in your computer using cinema 4d. It has a 3core g3 custom something for a cpu, 1Gb of main memory, Ddr3, much much much lower in bandwidth than the gddr5 your card is using, and only 32Mb of video ram on the gpu, which not only stores textures and assets in use/pre fetched/ready to head out, but also 3 720p frame buffers to remove screen tearing.

Its doing 10,000 unique draw calls a second @60 frames per second, instanced out to 300,000 objects being rendered, while the physics are performed at 240 simulations/samples a second.

So to try and frame an understanding of the overhead not really present in a rendering environment, just imagine this scenario: set your computers ram memory to just one Gb, and uh... your gpu's been cursed by a... Gremlin wizard, so you only get the fillrate of 8 rops, and try to render 10,000 unique objects, instanced to 300,000 times, fully textured (at least 4 material layers, just the basics will work for this) and and fully lit, oh, and have a physics simulation set to perform at least 4 samples, a simple ragdoll dummy set to fall will suffice, as we have no idea how much will be going on, nor will it really matter since it will not render in time anyways (for every frame of game displayed shin en samples and updates the physics 4 times) in exactly 1/60th of a second or less... Or your computer blows up.

That is why textures and geometry are repetitive in runtime environments, and why pointing them out and saying, this is now unimpressive because of repeated textures and geometry, is kind of weird for a videogame, I mean, yeah, the better you can disguise it the better, you can use a megatexture... But that will severely sacrifice up close fidelity, not too mention we only have 1Gb of holding ram and 32 Mb of vram... not too mention MT has its own set of artifacts and problems to work out.... So you are not alone, pretty much EVERYONE sees them. Its just something we have to accept for a considerable amount of time.

So, just the fact you can put it next to a racing game like Forza horizon on the Xbone, and have it like it does, back to back compared to the game on the far more powerful system (which is also full of repeating textures and assets) Is extremely impressive.

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#23 Raiden

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 12:33 PM

People can gripe all they want about Wii U's power. One thing Wii U never gets credit for is the thing is flat out amazing when it comes to lighting. Unless 3dude tells me different I will say Wii U is as good as about anything out there. It's just phenomenal with lighting. Fast Racing,Art of Balance,Mario 3D World,Mario Kart 8,Bayonetta 2 are some examples how great it is at lighting.



#24 3Dude

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 12:53 PM

People can gripe all they want about Wii U's power. One thing Wii U never gets credit for is the thing is flat out amazing when it comes to lighting. Unless 3dude tells me different I will say Wii U is as good as about anything out there. It's just phenomenal with lighting. Fast Racing,Art of Balance,Mario 3D World,Mario Kart 8,Bayonetta 2 are some examples how great it is at lighting.


Its blatantly better than anything ps360 could do.

Although it still appears to be mostly prebaked. Which makes it really interesting. The better you can make a scene look in a highend not real time environment, and then translate that to a prebaked realtime scene, the better things are going to look. And looking at Nintendo's renderwork, like the mariokart 8 high res character renders, or the smash intro videos, Nintendo is getting really, REALLY damn good with the high end rendered stuff... Which is what they use to approximate to their runtime stuff on wii u...

Just their use of screen space ambient occlusion has improved by massive leaps and bounds in such a small amount of time.

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#25 Lupaie

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:00 PM

So to try and frame an understanding of the overhead not really present in a rendering environment, just imagine this scenario: set your computers ram memory to just one Gb, and uh... your gpu's been cursed by a... Gremlin wizard, so you only get the fillrate of 8 rops, and try to render 10,000 unique objects, instanced to 300,000 times, fully textured (at least 4 material layers, just the basics will work for this) and and fully lit, oh, and have a physics simulation set to perform at least 4 samples, a simple ragdoll dummy set to fall will suffice, as we have no idea how much will be going on, nor will it really matter since it will not render in time anyways (for every frame of game displayed shin en samples and updates the physics 4 times) in exactly 1/60th of a second or less... Or your computer blows up.

 

You convinced me. But did you really have to describe Hell for me. Your a modernday version of Dante. I think I can't sleep anymore without having nightmares about render times on my 1gb mem computer.

 

I'm really looking forward to see some video's about this one.


Edited by Lupaie, 16 September 2014 - 01:00 PM.

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#26 3Dude

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:03 PM

You convinced me. But did you really have to describe Hell for me. Your a modernday version of Dante. I think I can't sleep anymore without having nightmares about render times on my 1gb mem computer.
 
I'm really looking forward to see some video's about this one.


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Want to know something really weird about Shin en? They LOVE it, they CRAVE it, the weaker the machine, the more brutal the overhead, the happier they seem to be. They still play with Amiga's.

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#27 Lupaie

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 01:36 PM

1358846038223.png

Want to know something really weird about Shin en? They LOVE it, they CRAVE it, the weaker the machine, the more brutal the overhead, the happier they seem to be. They still play with Amiga's.

Lol, I meant Dante Alighieri. But yeah I can see where the fun is in developing stuff for things that are not supposed to do that. Have you see that Doom game on printer software?

 

 

Lol, even this is great

https://www.youtube....tmase5twFM#t=26


Edited by Lupaie, 16 September 2014 - 01:39 PM.

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#28 GAMER1984

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 02:45 PM

1358846038223.png

Want to know something really weird about Shin en? They LOVE it, they CRAVE it, the weaker the machine, the more brutal the overhead, the happier they seem to be. They still play with Amiga's.

 

I know you are big Shin'en fan.m. Your thoughts on them moving to the ps4?



#29 Socalmuscle

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

I know you are big Shin'en fan.m. Your thoughts on them moving to the ps4?


Read about that a while back.

I say good for them. Keeps them in coin. We know where there heart and effort is.

#30 Raiden

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 05:00 PM

I know you are big Shin'en fan.m. Your thoughts on them moving to the ps4?

 

They are testing the waters with a port of NAN. I don't think it will do as well as Shin'en always been known to Nintendo fans since Game Boy Advance days(I still have Iridion 3D) and don't think the Sony crowd cares as much. I'm sure it will do ok just not the support Nintendo fans give them.


Edited by Ryudo, 16 September 2014 - 05:01 PM.


#31 DarkMagician77

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 07:56 PM

Nintendo really needs to pick these guys up as their exclusive developers.  I know they only have 3-4 legit games as their IP but they could sure help Retro, Monolith Soft, and even Nintendo tap into the potential of the Wii U.



#32 GAMER1984

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 09:32 PM

Nintendo really needs to pick these guys up as their exclusive developers.  I know they only have 3-4 legit games as their IP but they could sure help Retro, Monolith Soft, and even Nintendo tap into the potential of the Wii U.

 

too late. They are making a ps4 game as we speak. Who knows what the future holds. They say they wont abandon nintendo fanbase. I will take a wait and see approach.



They are testing the waters with a port of NAN. I don't think it will do as well as Shin'en always been known to Nintendo fans since Game Boy Advance days(I still have Iridion 3D) and don't think the Sony crowd cares as much. I'm sure it will do ok just not the support Nintendo fans give them.

 

I think you guys are TOTALLY underestimating Sony gamers.  



#33 Mewbot

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:47 PM

I think you guys are TOTALLY underestimating Sony gamers.  

Yeah, those fellas will make any game succeed. Have you seen the bestsellers list for the PS4?

On Zavvi it goes:

-Last Of Us (a remake that looks little better than the PS3 game)

-Watch Dogs (a bad game)

-CoD Ghosts (a bad game, the worst in the franchise)

-EA Sports UFC (idk what to say about this)

-Sniper Elite

-Need For Speed Rivals (a game with graphics no better than the Wii U version, and worse gameplay)

etc.

 

They'll buy anything it seems...


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#34 DarkMagician77

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:09 AM

too late. They are making porting a ps4 game as we speak. Who knows what the future holds. They say they wont abandon nintendo fanbase. I will take a wait and see approach.



 

I think you guys are TOTALLY underestimating Sony gamers.  

 

Just because they porting over a nearly 2 year old game for the PS4, doesn't mean that Nintendo can't buy them.  It's a long shot but stranger things have happened before (Nintendo buying Fatal Frame franchise, co-owning the IP for Bayo2, and having a 3rd party developer create a new Nintendo IP in the form of the W101).



#35 3Dude

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 05:40 AM

I know you are big Shin'en fan.m. Your thoughts on them moving to the ps4?


It was a bit of a surprise. Think it surprised them too, the wii u's low install base that is. Rising dev costs from more sophisticated powerful hardware and the wii u's install base made the shift in stance happen.

Another install base is good for them though. Keeps food on the table and what not.

What i found most interesting was thier comment on the systems being so similar.

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#36 GAMER1984

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:49 AM

It was a bit of a surprise. Think it surprised them too, the wii u's low install base that is. Rising dev costs from more sophisticated powerful hardware and the wii u's install base made the shift in stance happen.

Another install base is good for them though. Keeps food on the table and what not.

What i found most interesting was thier comment on the systems being so similar.

 

Would love to see that quote. But it is sad that they have to go to another console. I mean damn. 



#37 iEatTacos

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:21 PM

Man, that draw distance looks incredible. This game had my attention already, but now it's basically an Auto-buy for me

#38 GAMER1984

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:09 AM

http://www.nintendos...uffer#tabpanel3

Can anyone translate? New interview

http://www.nintendos...uffer#tabpanel3

Can anyone translate? New interview


Ok I'm dumb there is a English button at bottom of page... hit that

#39 Mewbot

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:21 AM

Can anyone translate?

1. 

Your collaboration with Nintendo dates back to 1999 Has much changed working with the Japanese company?

Nintendo is much more open now. They really take care of third party development teams. With them we have a friendly relationship and often we get the opportunity to present our games during special events such as Nintendo Directs.

2.

What about the future of Shin'en, working with Sony and your relationship with Nintendo. Many fans were hoping for a closer partnership with Nintendo (the creation of an effective second party) and this openness to the competitor was unexpected.

We have just started our collaboration with Sony. We'll see how it develops over time but in the end we want to get our games to a greater number of gamers. With today's technologies more and more advanced it is much easier to make games for other consoles, something that was not possible to do in the past without diminishing the quality of the finished product. 

We simply love Nintendo and what they have done for the world of gaming in general. We have three titles for Nintendo Wii U in development or already issued. We are a big supporter of that platform.

3.

How difficult is developing for the Wii U?

Developing for the Wii U is very simple. The software environment is much improved compared to the Wii.

4.

Do you have any plans for the New 3DS or 3DS?

At the moment we are concentrating on Wii U and PS4 .

5.

Art of Balance is coming out in a few days. What differences are there in the previous chapter? Can you give me some information about the online mode?

The last AoB console was released on the Wii console. For the Wii U version, we have added many more game modes, the number of levels has been doubled from 100 to 200, we added a ranking system and online game modes. AoB was already a perfect game for family and friends on the Wii, now with new online modes and with many more levels we have achieved a great value for the single player experience as well.

art-of-balance-5.jpg

6.

The first image of Fast Racing NEO for WiiU has shaken the hearts of all owners of a Nintendo home console. To make your title have you taken inspiration from F-Zero or Wipeout? If so, what influences have they had?

We think that both games are great, but Fast Racing NEO will present its own specific gameplay experience and a different graphic style. We're really trying to make it unique.

7.

Have you considered finding a publisher for the game retail or will the game only be on the eShop?

We are very pleased with the manner of publication with a digital-only delivery of our games.

8.

This game will use 4K textures? The picture posted a few days ago shows a great attention to detail, will you ever create a game with photorealistic graphics?  

The reactions to the first image were definitely positive, but will be presented much more in the coming weeks. I think only then will people really understand what the quality of our title is.

BxpMUcwCMAA3ySE.jpg

9.

How will you use the second screen of the GamePad? Should we expect a local multiplayer mode or online?

It will be possible to play the entire game on TV or GamePad. Besides this we have not decided on anything.

10.

What genre would you like to work with for an upcoming title?

We'd like to make a game based on the exploration of a world on a grand scale . We have some ideas but there will be no proposal before the next year.

Simple Google Translate, but I fixed a lot of the translations to make more sense. That last answer is interesting, a game based on the exploration of a large world by Shin'en would be amazing.



Edit: 

There's an English button? 

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#40 3Dude

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:48 AM

Shin en wants to tackle a large world exploration game next? I love those. Its going to be tough though, a lot of content for 5 dudes to make, but it definately has me intruiged.

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