68 replies to this topic

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

dis is y i stopped arguing its just painful sitting and writing for so long.

It honestly didnt even take me that long. I've just done this too many times before

[Mewbot]

It honestly didnt even take me that long. I've just done this too many times before

Okay.

And I know I went overboard with the abandon thread gifs, there's just so many good ones if you google it.

[DéliopT]

Nintendo has made huge profits after the GC and N64 era, as you just stated yourself. Also it's a very well known fact that Nintendo could $250 million for the next 40 years before they would be fully bankrupt. When you say long term you must mean very very long term, since 40 years could be as many as ten whole gaming generations. Also after the huge success of the Wii, the investors would be stupid to not try at least once more in the home console market, even if the Wii U is a failure.

 

And I definitely don't subscribe to this "Nintendo doesn't listen to it's gamers" crap. Nintendo has already produced a great liabrary for Wii u with even more great games o come. From metroid to frinking Mario, it's all there.Look around at Wii U owners, and they are satisfied as heck with their consoles. People can't even complain about lack of good games anymore because nintendo has provided a huge library of incredible games for Wii U. You know what Nintendo's problem is with gamers not being satisfied? They've set the bar too dang high. People complain about everything. "We want more original and old IP's Nintendo! Stop giving us this Mario crap!" Ok, so Nintendo goes and makes and buys new IPs. Do they sell? No, because the same people who were complaining don't want that game, they want Nintendo's old IPs, like Starfox and Metroid. Ohmygoodness, why doesn't Nintendo listen to it's gamers? Oh what's that, a new Starfox, Metroid, and Zelda in the works? "I wish Nintendo would go back to their old, more creative selves and make new IPs".

Seriously, there is no winning with Nintendo fans. Every time Nintendo brings back an old IP, people start begging for an even more obscure one that made even crappier sales. Every tiny thing Nintendo does wrong is proof of how they're "falling short" and "irrelevant" and you barely even hear about the great things they're doing.

The Wii U is a great console. Even if the sales aren't great, it's incredible. I know that because I own one, and I love it, and I've seen so. Many. Others say the same about theirs. The people I see complaining and criticizing most are people who don't even own one, and the people who for whatever reason refuse to go out and buy the huge library of great games the WIi U has.

Heck Nintendo is even listening and paying attention to the competitive smash community this gen, and last gen they practically spat in their face.

 

Anyway a lot of this crap people give Nintendo, stems from the same reason people crap people give Nintendo about third parties. As you said, it's about reputation. Sony, Microsoft and the "triple a" western devs have done an incredible job slandering Nintendo's name in the west. In fact that's why I asked this question in the first place, I wanted to see if there was anyone who could provide an actual solid argument for why this is Nintendo's fault, and why so much of the blame from them. All I had ever seen was people being mad at Nintendo simply for being Nintendo. Saying eff them for what is clearly the fault of others. That's all I've really seen in this thread as well. Straw grasping. People desperate to blame Nintendo because they're Nintendo so it must be them doing something wrong. It's impossible the other companies who have shown to be scumbags again and agian could possibly be responsible for being scumbags this time because Nintendo -who have been around since he beginning and created the majority of the most influential IPs of all time- is involved and we all know how irrelevant they are and how they hate and don't listen to their fans. How they hate change, and are stuck in the middle ages because, oh no, we don't have voice chat in mario kart. Does it matter that every time they try to change their "fans" whine and complaining that the game isn't exactly like how they remember gaming on their N64? Of course not. It couldn't be that their "fans" are never satisfied and have taken this stupid propaganda to heart and want to blame Nintendo for every little thing and jump on every tiny mistake they make while letting the other big game companies rape their wallets and abuse their "fans" without so much as batting an eye. 

But honestly, at this point there's really not much Nintendo can do, except hope people gain some common sense. Changing your image as a company is already a notoriously hard thing. It verges on impossible. Doing so when the things that are said about you are already total crap lies? I don't think such a thing is possible at all.

 

Yes, Nintendo made a lot of money... they DID! They aren`t doing that anymore.
They might have a lot of money - which gives investors confidence that despite mistakes, the company will stand on it`s own - but that doesn`t mean Nintendo can just go around burning money.
They turned things around because, like many times, 3DS had no competition. But even then, just compare sales of the GBA and 3DS. GBA sold about 80m in it`s short life, 3DS which is another handheld to the core gamers, in 4 years, sold about half of the GBA.
That is a sign that someone is eating into it`s market. Do you think investors don`t see it?

With Wii U, Nintendo aren`t going to do a 3DS-like-turnaround, because in the home console business they really have competition and that, thus far, has proven to be extremely competent and desirable even when they fail.

 

 

I never said Nintendo needs to appeal better to it`s fanbase. Wasn`t even thinking about it, to be honest.
What i said is that Nintendo has failed time and time again to really grasp all core gamers, like Sony and MS did. And the question is why?

What are Sony and MS doing that Nintendo isn`t?
And the answer is, a lot!
N64 sold about 20m in the US because it offered the gaming options that people loved. Maybe not all, but it was when they really tried to please it`s biggest market with games like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and other.
They didn`t do that with the GC and they only sold 12m in the US.
They are not doing the same again this gen and you`ll see how those numbers will go down again.

 

I spoke of the US only, because it was the market where Nintendo sold the best. Because the same happened in Europe and Japan.

The problem is that with the N64, GC and Wii U Nintendo didn`t really go after a big chunk of gamers, be it by not offering the same type of games, HW or things like an account system.
They do their thing and that`s it. At least during the N64 days they had western studios that made the games they couldn`t in Japan. They really need that again.

 

I don`t care what people spread about Nintendo or this or that console. Nintendo is making the same mistakes for generations and until they correct them, the chances of winning more marketshare and mindshare is next to none.

 

Give people their Halo, Uncharted, Gears of War, Gran Turismo, exclusive to Nintendo consoles and you'll see gamers coming to Nintendo again - 3rd parties included.

 

[Raiden]

An argument become invalid when someone uses the term "core" attached to words like fanbase or gamers. Stop using such a stupid stupid stupid STUPID subjective term and warping it for your own view in a argument. It loses right then and there.

 

I will make up my own term. Center Gamers. Only Nintendo makes games for Center Gamers. Sounds stupid doesn't it. Oh and BTW Sony says it wants the Wii audience http://nintendoevery...ce-over-to-ps4/ DERP CORE...ffs

Keep that utterly stupid term away from anything gaming.

[Colinx]

"it's only the die hard Nintendo fans who will pick up third party games on Wii U either to support the third party or genuinely play the games."

 

You're claiming hardcore Nintendo fans buy things that are 3rd party and that Nintendo fans don't support anything that is not Nintendo all in the same breath.

On the notion that it's hardcore Nintendo fans that are even buying these games: I have serious doubts. I don't see hardcore Nintendo fans going out and buying crappy ports and CoD: Modern Advanced Warfare Ops 57 (especially when they are aware that same money could be used to buy much better games from Nintendo). These are (are generally) people who just want to play whatever and don't care about the politics behind buying games or looking into whether or not it's even a good game/port.

There a very big difference between a Nintendo fan and a hardcore Nintendo fan. A Nintendo fan is someone who enjoys their games but not all, a hardcore Nintendo fan is somebody who plays nearly every Nintendo game and will do everything they can to support the company even if they do not like said genre of game. You have serious doubts, but its things like Operation Platnium and people saying prior to Watch Dogs being delayed, to purchase that game, that show some people don't necessarily buy the games because they like or are interested in them but because they want to help support Nintendo. Not only people who just buy the games that aren't interested, but multi-console owners who buy 3rd party games on Wii U to show support. While both of these types of people not might account for a huge number of sales, let's not forget the last batch of 3rd party games on Wii U, AC4 and COD:Ghosts, sold atrociously. People who play COD: Ghosts or AC4 besides the incredibly minuscule Wii U communities for them, play them on other consoles and it's evident in the sales.

[NintendoReport]

I don't agree or understand some people who make it appear as though Nintendo should be everything to everyone. Many companies thrive creating their own niche and market. A failure or mistake can be learned from. A company can adapt but when they stray away from what makes them unique it becomes an even bigger problem and seen as desperate or copycatting to some people. 

 

Nintendo continues to get a bad wrap about 3rd party support, but is that really what the conversation is about? Sony gets third party support and they have been laying off people left and right over the last year. The PS3 was a HUGE financial hit and even though PS4 sales are solid, it isn't making up any lost ground... and they have 3rd party support.

 

Microsoft seems to be getting away from it's focus of gaming and more on media entertainment. They want to own the living room and don't care whether it's you playing a game or browsing MSN. MS has 3rd party support and yet the console isn't selling gangbusters either.

 

The market is much different then last generation and it's most likely any of the 3 big companies will see any numbers even near the years of the Wii/PS360 .

Edited by Sorceror12, 02 October 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[DéliopT]

I don't agree or understand some people who make it appear as though Nintendo should be everything to everyone. Many companies thrive creating their own niche and market. A failure or mistake can be learned from. A company can adapt but when they stray away from what makes them unique it becomes an even bigger problem and seen as desperate or copycatting to some people. 

 

Nintendo continues to get a bad wrap about 3rd party support, but is that really what the conversation is about? Sony gets third party support and they have been laying off people left and right over the last year. The PS3 was a HUGE financial hit and even though PS4 sales are solid, it isn't making up any lost ground... and they have 3rd party support.

 

Microsoft seems to be getting away from it's focus of gaming and more on media entertainment. They want to own the living room and don't care whether it's you playing a game or browsing MSN. MS has 3rd party support and yet the console isn't selling gangbusters either.

 

The market is much different then last generation and it's most likely any of the 3 big companies will see any numbers even near the years of the Wii/PS360 .

 

It`s not really a question of becoming everything and doing the same as others, it`s more about expanding your offerings to expand your market.

During the N64, Nintendo had a more diverse catalog of exclusive titles with exclusive shooters, exclusive sports titles (not just the Mario bunch) and sales in the US were in the 20m. Had it had a GT kinda of game and sales would even be higher.

Than what happened?
Nintendo saw what made the PS1 succeed and basically did less than they did with the N64, not more.
Enter Wii U, and even less.

 

Nintendo needs to invest the money it has in the bank to at least go back to the N64 days where they had studios capable of providing the genres that people loved.
Why do you think Nintendo is developing Splatoon and that they showed it`s multiplayer aspect first at E3?

I`m not saying: copy MS or Sony. I'm saying that they really need to do something about the problem they have.

 

3rd parties could put out the same exact version on Wii U that they put on other consoles and things would still be bad.
Gamers - not core gamers as i do not want to offend anyone  - who love games like Halo, GoW, GT, Uncharted, etc., know they are not going to find (exclusive) titles like that on Wii U, so why bother rushing to a shop a buy one, when the system selling exclusives pile up years after the console is out?

 

If Nintendo isn´t serious about increasing the userbase/marketshare of it`s home console business, don`t expect other companies to do it for them.
Wii U was just another example of that mistake.

[NintendoReport]

It`s not really a question of becoming everything and doing the same as others, it`s more about expanding your offerings to expand your market.

During the N64, Nintendo had a more diverse catalog of exclusive titles with exclusive shooters, exclusive sports titles (not just the Mario bunch) and sales in the US were in the 20m. Had it had a GT kinda of game and sales would even be higher.

Than what happened?
Nintendo saw what made the PS1 succeed and basically did less than they did with the N64, not more.
Enter Wii U, and even less.

 

Nintendo needs to invest the money it has in the bank to at least go back to the N64 days where they had studios capable of providing the genres that people loved.
Why do you think Nintendo is developing Splatoon and that they showed it`s multiplayer aspect first at E3?

I`m not saying: copy MS or Sony. I'm saying that they really need to do something about the problem they have.

 

3rd parties could put out the same exact version on Wii U that they put on other consoles and things would still be bad.
Gamers - not core gamers as i do not want to offend anyone  - who love games like Halo, GoW, GT, Uncharted, etc., know they are not going to find (exclusive) titles like that on Wii U, so why bother rushing to a shop a buy one, when the system selling exclusives pile up years after the console is out?

 

If Nintendo isn´t serious about increasing the userbase/marketshare of it`s home console business, don`t expect other companies to do it for them.
Wii U was just another example of that mistake.

 

Oh I understand about expanding the market. That's why I think Nintendo is on the right path for securing exclusives and doing more collaboration and tip toeing into the toy figurines with Amiiboo. The last thing we need is another console like the other big 2 that carry 95% of the same multiplats.

As an added thought, I also think Nintendo is on a good path to the way they present and announce their software lineup from general directs to game specific ones, tree house events and e3.

[DéliopT]

Oh I understand about expanding the market. That's why I think Nintendo is on the right path for securing exclusives and doing more collaboration and tip toeing into the toy figurines with Amiiboo. The last thing we need is another console like the other big 2 that carry 95% of the same multiplats.

As an added thought, I also think Nintendo is on a good path to the way they present and announce their software lineup from general directs to game specific ones, tree house events and e3.

I just hope that their future exclusives are of the Resident Evil 4 caliber!

 

Their presentation style has improved but i hope they keep both styles of NDs. They do serve different purposes.

Seeing as next year will be the biggest year so far for Wii U, we will probably see a ND every month, just like we saw last year when 3DS had it`s best year, aswell.