20 replies to this topic

[TheDoctor_13]

So for the console after the Wii U, "Fusion" or not. Do you want it to use custom architecture like the Wii U, or go PS4/Xbox One way and be more like a PC? 


As another topic, do you want it to be able to install games like the others, like have a disc, but install some of it on the hard-drive? I think it would be cool to have the option, but not force it.

[Abcdude]

PC, or, "64-Bit" I think is the correct term. That's how they screwed up in the first place, making PS360 Porting so hard due to the complex architecture.

Edited by Abcdude, 17 November 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

Go custom, with a nice, large e-RAM pool.

[Mewbot]

Custom, but make it as powerful as the other consoles so that by the end of the generation all the games will look better on your console.

[NintendoReport]

Custom. 

 

PC, or, "64-Bit" I think is the correct term. That's how they screwed up in the first place, making PS360 Porting so hard due to the complex architecture.

 

I wouldn't say having custom architecture was a screw up, the main reason some devs struggled early on with ports is because the dev tools, documentation, and communication were lacking right before and after launch... and that was the mistake.

[Tom]

A unified architecture throughout all platforms would make it easier to port games from one console to another.

 

PC sounds good.

[Mahmoodinho98]

Custom architecture allows a hardware company to balance the specs of the system. It also allow for better power consumption and an efficient system.

About game porting;

companies can use game engines that support those different architectures . for example Cry engine supports all major platforms including Wii U which is running PPC . PPC is very hard to emulate on X86 chips and hardware(ps4,Xbox one) thats the reason why we dont have an xbox 360 emulator.

[grahamf]

Custom, just make sure you take what you learned from the Wii U's chips and avoid the bottlenecks.

[Bill Cipher]

For the sake of actually getting third party games that aren't eShop exclusive, PC. The big Two are basically PC's(They use an x86 architecture) and that's what one of the two big reasons Why we live in an era of little to no third party exclusive games(Minus Indies) that aren't funded in part by the Console makers. The other reason is that Game Budgets are now heavily inflated to the point where it's not feasable to say "This game isn't coming to PSOne" when you can get it ported and running rather easily. Wii U, as I've said before, is completely isolated in the current Gen tech wise and for the base of consumers it's not feasable to port a game to it, make sure it runs, optimize the system, and then manufacture it for what will amount to less then 10% of your copies sold. It's like making sure your film is catered to the Russian Audience when translated when it's an American film and those that watch it in Russia will likely be doing so illegally.

[Mahmoodinho98]

For the sake of actually getting third party games that aren't eShop exclusive, PC. The big Two are basically PC's(They use an x86 architecture) and that's what one of the two big reasons Why we live in an era of little to no third party exclusive games(Minus Indies) that aren't funded in part by the Console makers. The other reason is that Game Budgets are now heavily inflated to the point where it's not feasable to say "This game isn't coming to PSOne" when you can get it ported and running rather easily. Wii U, as I've said before, is completely isolated in the current Gen tech wise and for the base of consumers it's not feasable to port a game to it, make sure it runs, optimize the system, and then manufacture it for what will amount to less then 10% of your copies sold. It's like making sure your film is catered to the Russian Audience when translated when it's an American film and those that watch it in Russia will likely be doing so illegally.

I dont seem to agree with you, most of the well know game engines these days (cry engine,unity,unreal) have native support for Wii U's architecture  so there is no reason  why Wii U ports should be a problem for a developer, all they have to do is to optimize the game which should be done not only for Wii U  but for all systems.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

Third-party devs have gotten just really lazy.

[Raiden]

Custom because that's what a console is. That's the point. Custom hardware to have exclusives make the most out of it. If it's just PC then what's the point? Buy a PC then.

[Bill Cipher]

I dont seem to agree with you, most of the well know game engines these days (cry engine,unity,unreal) have native support for Wii U's architecture  so there is no reason  why Wii U ports should be a problem for a developer, all they have to do is to optimize the game which should be done not only for Wii U  but for all systems.

No, UE 4 DOESN'T run on Wii U. Neither does Frostbite, or Luminous, etc. Cryengine 3/4Whatever it is  means nothing, considering Crytek is now a laughing stock of the gaming world. They can't pay employees, they are hemorrhaging money left and right, the CEO seemingly jumped ship, etc. Unity has never been one of the BIG engines, and name me ONE big 3rd party game that the Wii U got this year that's on other systems. We have no CoD, no Dragon Age, no SoM, no AC, no FC, we're getting WD 6 months late, etc. NOTHING of note from the big publishers launched on the Wii U this year that didn't have Nintendo's name on it. 

 

That's right, you can't really. You seem to think it's as simple as "Optimizing the game". Well guess what? Due to the Wii U's Architecture, it's more effort put IN to make then they are getting out. IIRC, I'm not even sure a 3rd party game NOT called Just Dance has sold over 500K copies on the Wii U. Add this to having to test the Wii U version, having to manufacture it, etc and no, it's not as simple as just "HERP DERP OPTIMIZING THE GAME".

 

Third-party devs have gotten just really lazy.

See the above. You also seem to be missing the fact that we're in a make or break era of game development for most Third parties. Square Enix was DISSAPOINTED that Tomb Raider 2013, a series that had been treading water, sold 4 Million Copies in a Month IIRC. If they can't make an initial investment on the system, why on earth should they support it? That's like me saying they should port CoD:AW onto the 3DS. It would take more time and effort to sell a lot less copies then what they could by just not making the game and focusing on the other systems.

[Raiden]

Yes they can. Cry3 can run on anything. It's scaleable. Can run on 3ds. FFXV can run on Wii U. It can run on anything that uses Dirext X Equivelent.

 

 

No, UE 4 DOESN'T run on Wii U. Neither does Frostbite, or Luminous, etc. Cryengine 3/4Whatever

 

 

http://www.siliconer...ses-directx-11/

 

And look http://n4g.com/news/...ctx-11-features

 

Wii U has that. It can Run UE4 as yet again can be scaled.

http://wiiudaily.com...n-run-unreal-4/

 

 

Besides it was never a matter of power. PS4 if it had Wii U's specs still get more support than Wii U if it had PS4's specs. Third parties just don't want to support them in part because the gabrage they are able to get under MS and Sony's radar. The other part is just them being idiotic dicks.

PS3's cell was a pile of miserable crap to work with. Still got support. PS2 was not only the weakest of the 3 active consoles of it's gen but a HORRIBLE architecture. Really hard to program for and it did fine.

 

So do your 3Dude impression elseware man.

Edited by Ryudo, 18 November 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

No one wins though. It's just an excuse for game developers/publishers to not figure into their budget to develop for all platforms. In the old days, we would more often get games on the Big 3. Now I can't even buy Madden on the Wii U. Devs will point the finger at Nintendo for poor sales, when their not releasing the game for the system is part of the reason for inactive Wii U sales and game sales. People just haven't been convinced yet. They need to be.

Edited by Porhorse, 18 November 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Bill Cipher]

Yes they can. Cry3 can run on anything. It's scaleable. Can run on 3ds. FFXV can run on Wii U. It can run on anything that uses Dirext X Equivelent.

 

http://www.siliconer...ses-directx-11/

 

And look http://n4g.com/news/...ctx-11-features

 

Wii U has that. It can Run UE4 as yet again can be scaled.

http://wiiudaily.com...n-run-unreal-4/

 

 

Besides it was never a matter of power. PS4 if it had Wii U's specs still get more support than Wii U if it had PS4's specs. Third parties just don't want to support them in part because the gabrage they are able to get under MS and Sony's radar. The other part is just them being idiotic dicks.

PS3's cell was a pile of miserable crap to work with. Still got support. PS2 was not only the weakest of the 3 active consoles of it's gen but a HORRIBLE architecture. Really hard to program for and it did fine.

 

So do your 3Dude impression elseware man.

 

I never said Cry3 couldn't run on Wii U, I merely said WHO would use it considering its parent company is bleeding out money and the two games we have ON it aren't stellar examples of the Engine+Wii U.

 

UE4 I was running on outdated information, I'll give you that, but there's still the point of scalability to fit on the Wii U.

 

FFXV is running on the Luminous Engine, which is a Square Enix in House Engine. It's not as simple for SE, considering that they've blown a lot of money on the engine/FFXV and at this point they're just trying to get it out the door. You're really thinking the FFXV Team would want to spend time and energy on a product that has taken 8 YEARS to make ATM and they're still not done? Everything the third party companies do is driven by money. Funny how you seem to be ignoring that it takes time and money to port these games and it's not just a simple copy paste. It's not worth it to them to spend the money for these ports to the Wii U if they're not going to make back a profit. That's like me expecting for FFXIV to be ported to Linux. It's not worth the time/effort to do such a thing.

 

 

No one wins though. It's just an excuse for game developers/publishers to not figure into their budget to develop for all platforms. In the old days, we would more often get games on the Big 3. Now I can't even buy Madden on the Wii U. Devs will point the finger at Nintendo for poor sales, when their not releasing the game for the system is part of the reason for inactive Wii U sales and game sales. People just haven't been convinced yet. They need to be.

I don't think you get the point I'm making with Make or Break. Tomb Raider sold 4 Million copies in a MONTH and was considered a dissappointment. In what WORLD should that be one? Assuming SE gets $40 for game(It sells for $60, so I'm assuming a 2/1 split of profits) and this was the first month of the game's launch, that's $160 Million right there. In what world does a game making you $160 Million count as disappointing? That's the point I'm trying to make: Game Developers can't take risks anymore with game launches from the AAA. By putting it on Wii U, Optimizing it, scaling it, manufacturing it, you're playing a gamble it will pay off in the end. And as we saw with the Wii U Third Party titles, it didn't pay off. CoD sold poorly, AC3 sold well enough to justify IV, but we got neither one this year. Rayman Legends is one of the few Multiplatform Retail examples I can think of where the game sold best/better on Wii U. 

 

As for developers pointing fingers, most people will buy a system based either off of its exclusives or its power or brand loyalty. Considering the Wii U came off a year long semi-drought of the Wii which weakened brand loyalty to the Wii,We didn't get a truly great game for the system besides NSMBU until September(Due to RL being Delayed), and that the system the moment the PS4/Xbox One were announced was completely outclassed, it's not hard to see why the system isn't selling. The first year could have been a Fantastic Start for the Wii U, but instead we got them getting a head start for 2 months, taking frequent breaks until September, and then they started pushing when their opponents were just warming up with everything lined up.

 

Note: This is coming from the guy who Owns a Wii U, loves it, Hates the way the Industry is going, etc. I'm not saying this because HUR DUR NINTENDO SUCKS, but because Nintendo is one of the few bastions of GOOD games left. Yes, AAA can produce a good game(DA:O, Batman Arkham, JC2, etc) but more often then naught the industry is becoming stupider and stupider with it's actions."LET's RELEASE A BUGGED GAME" "LET'S CHARGE $99.99 IN GAME" "LET'S SCREW OVER CONSUMERS". As much as I hate it, Nintendo needs to somewhat adapt to Survive, which they have been doing. Making Partnerships, outsourcing IPs, etc, all to try and make a steady stream of Content is the best move they've done in the last 5 years.

Edited by Doctor Strange, 18 November 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Raiden]

I never said Cry3 couldn't run on Wii U, I merely said WHO would use it considering its parent company is bleeding out money and the two games we have ON it aren't stellar examples of the Engine+Wii U.

 

UE4 I was running on outdated information, I'll give you that, but there's still the point of scalability to fit on the Wii U.

 

FFXV is running on the Luminous Engine, which is a Square Enix in House Engine. It's not as simple for SE, considering that they've blown a lot of money on the engine/FFXV and at this point they're just trying to get it out the door. You're really thinking the FFXV Team would want to spend time and energy on a product that has taken 8 YEARS to make ATM and they're still not done? Everything the third party companies do is driven by money. Funny how you seem to be ignoring that it takes time and money to port these games and it's not just a simple copy paste. It's not worth it to them to spend the money for these ports to the Wii U if they're not going to make back a profit. That's like me expecting for FFXIV to be ported to Linux. It's not worth the time/effort to do such a thing.

 

 

Would not be hard at all and it's not 8 years. That version is scrapped. That had a lot to do with managment at Square and just overall Square are kinda idiots. Normura always been kinda ignorant. It also had to do with PS3 cell processer just sucking. Wii U uses Power PC CPU something they been familiar with for 9 years at the very least and core per core better than PS4's CPU. Most games on Wii U don't even need the other 2 cores thanks to the GPU and such. Only real thing XV would likely be 720P at 30FPS and be missing some AA. It's more like asking for Resident Evil 4 on PS2. PS2 did it but had  some shortcomings but still ran it. I'm not saying look or run as good as PS4/XBO but be better than ACU easily.  Not only that the world size in XV is smaller than Xenoblade on Wii at 13 square miles. XB was 20. XCX is  100 since that is 5x 20. Assuming all of XV world map is playable. 

[Bill Cipher]

Would not be hard at all and it's not 8 years. That version is scrapped. That had a lot to do with managment at Square and just overall Square are kinda idiots. Normura always been kinda ignorant. It also had to do with PS3 cell processer just sucking. Wii U uses Power PC CPU something they been familiar with for 9 years at the very least and core per core better than PS4's CPU. Most games on Wii U don't even need the other 2 cores thanks to the GPU and such. Only real thing XV would likely be 720P at 30FPS and be missing some AA. It's more like asking for Resident Evil 4 on PS2. PS2 did it but had  some shortcomings but still ran it. I'm not saying look or run as good as PS4/XBO but be better than ACU easily.  Not only that the world size in XV is smaller than Xenoblade on Wii at 13 square miles. XB was 20. XCX is  100 since that is 5x 20. Assuming all of XV world map is playable.

If a version of a game is scrapped it still counts as Development time. HL2 went under a massive redesign of practically everything in 2003, a year before the game launched, but it still was in developmemt before then.

Oh, I'm not trying to praise Square as Geniuses. They spent at least 4 years making the Hallway/Generic Anime Simulator FFXIII. However, Square is, if one thing I've seen about them is true, willing to milk the ever loving crap out of their games. We got a trilogy involving Lightning, for Pete's sake. Nomura is a hack that IMO got lightning in a bottle and has yet to live up to any expectations put on him(See KH, FF post 7, the absurd time between when the game was announced and when it was released, etc)

While the Wii U probably could run it, one of the things FF has become famous for is the visuals(At least to a substantial portion of the fan base). It probably wouldn't be worth the investment in the eyes of SE.

Now, something that I could see being worth it as an investment from SE is something like FFE, where they're using the goodwill that Nintendo owners have for the games to sell a spinoff. I'm also very much of the belief that SE could make a low budget Crystal Chronicles for the 3DS/Wii U and they'd sell probably better then FFXV, mostly because they'd be able to have it be unique as opposed to FFXV and I think CC would be a better fit forSucktackularue to the Dual Screen.

And really, FFXV is only 13 Sq miles? That's... Sucktackular. JC2 had a bigger world then that IIRC, not to even mention Monaco.

[Raiden]

Just Cause 2 was one of the 3 top largest worlds in gaming but it's boring lol a lot of empty space. XV looks to not do a whole lot either. Why XB is great while the world wa sbig always something to do. Kill monsters or quests and collect and it kept you busy with over 400 sidequests. I honestly don't think XV will be very good. SE can't make a decent RPG anymore.  KH sucks also with it's broken combat and BS nonsensical story. SE no longer understands narrative,diversity or mechanics. It will be pretty get good reviews and likely later pooed on by RPG fans except for the small minority who will defend it to the death.

 

I'm glad FF isn't on Wii U when Monolith is there.They fully get it. Monolith,Level-5,Mistwalker and the inventor of the JRPG themselves Falcom only RPG companies in Japan that still understand and profit. SE is sad about sales because they are idiots lol and don't budget well.

[Bill Cipher]

 
I'm glad FF isn't on Wii U when Monolith is there.They fully get it. Monolith,Level-5,Mistwalker and the inventor of the JRPG themselves Falcom only RPG companies in Japan that still understand and profit. SE is sad about sales because they are idiots lol and don't budget well.

What, no Atlus?