89 replies to this topic

[uh20]

I would say my last post would be wrong, but it still stands
this article is good at recap'ing every sub to low rumor there is, if this is on fake sources like I still believe it is, than all I want to to do is believe it less, because its still under the possibility of being well hidden and professional troll dupe, if someone was going to post an article, why would he not write it as a recap and instead as a rumor with quoted sources
so at the very least this is just a reasonable rumor recap from a website that wants more viewers

also, its not because its shocking lol, things become unbelievable to me as they become more realistic because I'm such an anti-add person, only good advertising seems real, its all crap still

also, I'm accidentally stealing every top page ;-)

[Meelow100]

not really. think of Wii U as gamecube of next gen and ps4 and nextbox as orignal xbox. gamecube had great tech and amazing graphics but xbox was clearly better. nintendo has never sell console on look how good this game graphics are. they just let the graphics speak for itself.

i think the Wii U will hold its own to get the third party games but im expecting microsoft and sony first party games next gen to look better than Wii U's. nintendo themself said they dont do HD graphics well.... so yes they will be more artistic in there first party games then raw presentations and polygons.

The Gamecube was more powerful then the PS2.

[dagwood dang]

So if these really are the manufacturing costs, there's a chance they may play the
"shortage/increase demand" card. They may want to see how quickly consumers buy up the first batch.

If we respond like piranas to a bleeding pig leg, then they'll release more. It's decreases the risk for them.
They wouldn't wants to have to buy back units that don't move...

I believe they'll sell tho.

Edited by dagwood dang, 09 April 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Desert Punk]

From what I've read at least early Wii U titles will be based on the unreal 3 engine and in reference to Alien Colonial Marines PC, PS3 and 360 have a deferred rendering system to give great lighting effects that the wii U version doesn't have. So already it seems the wii U can't match ps3/360 graphically.

That said if the wii U has 1GB of memory and a pretty respectable cpu then its quite possible Unreal 4 will be possible with some sort of reduced graphic quality.

Didn't the original wii run a unreal engine with many parts simplified and reduced so it would work on the hardware. I'm guessing unreal engine 4 will also be customisable to match both low end and high end hardware.

I hope with the wii U we can be realistic. When the original wii came out many people were predicting it was close to the power of ps3/360 only for it to be revealed to be less powerful than the original xbox in the end. I'm pretty certain from the reports I've read that the wii U will around 360/PS3 performance probably slightly below overall but already people are comparing it to ps4 and the next xbox which it seems unlikely to match. Personally I think the performance of the next xbox and ps4 will probably be in the order of 3-4x that of their earlier consoles which is what many are predicting the wii U will achieve.

Even if the wii U is just below 360/PS3 performance that is still the biggest jump between generations as the wii was so poor in the first place.

[Blasty]

Even if the wii U is just below 360/PS3 performance that is still the biggest jump between generations as the wii was so poor in the first place.

It wouldn't be.

EDIT: Or do you mean just for the current generation?

Edited by Blasty, 09 April 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[TriForce_3]

From what I've read at least early Wii U titles will be based on the unreal 3 engine and in reference to Alien Colonial Marines PC, PS3 and 360 have a deferred rendering system to give great lighting effects that the wii U version doesn't have. So already it seems the wii U can't match ps3/360 graphically.

That said if the wii U has 1GB of memory and a pretty respectable cpu then its quite possible Unreal 4 will be possible with some sort of reduced graphic quality.

Didn't the original wii run a unreal engine with many parts simplified and reduced so it would work on the hardware. I'm guessing unreal engine 4 will also be customisable to match both low end and high end hardware.

I hope with the wii U we can be realistic. When the original wii came out many people were predicting it was close to the power of ps3/360 only for it to be revealed to be less powerful than the original xbox in the end. I'm pretty certain from the reports I've read that the wii U will around 360/PS3 performance probably slightly below overall but already people are comparing it to ps4 and the next xbox which it seems unlikely to match. Personally I think the performance of the next xbox and ps4 will probably be in the order of 3-4x that of their earlier consoles which is what many are predicting the wii U will achieve.

Even if the wii U is just below 360/PS3 performance that is still the biggest jump between generations as the wii was so poor in the first place.

As far as Wii U not handling Aliens: Colonial Marines as well as PS360, it appears that isn't the case. The quote can be interpreted many ways, but if it's supposedly "one of the best-looking" then it would have to be as good, or better than PS360. If not, then what platform would it look better than?

Sega and Gearbox are being downright boastful about Aliens: Colonial Marines on Wii U. Gearbox' Randy Pitchford is talking up the Wii U game like crazy, saying it'll be one of the best-looking versions of the game and feature wonderful Wii U-specific additions.

Source: http://www.nintendow....com/blog/29746

Edited by TriForce_3, 09 April 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Nin_Stream]

If there are alot of games that look like the Bird Demo wont that be surprising? And what do you mean downgrade the Unreal Engine on the Wii U? If they succeed in making the wii u support it it wont be downgraded it will be the whole thing at 100%.

i could. but i doubt it. the hardware will be a noticable upgrade but not like mind blowing. they will hang their hats on controller/gameplay, and online.... not power of console thats never been nintendo's MO.

Well maybe some Nintendo Devs cant do HD well. But Miyamoto said in an interview its not that he cant do photo realisms graphics but he doesnt want to cause doing realistic graphics means you have to do something thats familiar to people. He would rather do what he want and show off new ideas and such. And realistic graphics just restric creativity.

not really. think of Wii U as gamecube of next gen and ps4 and nextbox as orignal xbox. gamecube had great tech and amazing graphics but xbox was clearly better. nintendo has never sell console on look how good this game graphics are. they just let the graphics speak for itself.

i think the Wii U will hold its own to get the third party games but im expecting microsoft and sony first party games next gen to look better than Wii U's. nintendo themself said they dont do HD graphics well.... so yes they will be more artistic in there first party games then raw presentations and polygons.

[Plutonas]

I said it before, I say it now to.. Wii U's cpu is going to be much more powerfull than ps4 and xbox720 from the latest leaks, from fudzilla. A power7 cpu cannot be compared with A8-3850 apu (cpu+gpu chip).. It can do much more. So in this aspect, wii U will be stronger. We have to wait and see the gpu and ram...

Only if the leaks about wii U cpu are faulty, then it may be less powerful.. But they all speak about a power7 cpu.. even IBM...

An unmodified A8-3850 apu, is 200% maybe more, less powerful than an unmodified power7 quad core.. How much nintendo downgraded the power7 cpu??? Surely not a 200%

Here is a comparison link with a8-3850 vs intel 980x.. The reason I pick 980x, because is the closest in performance cpu in GFLOPS, to power7 quad core.. http://www.anandtech...duct/399?vs=142

read next to each test, higher is better or lower is better (not to get confused).


Lets now see a much much more weaker cpu by intel, my CPU in my small machine... A quad core i7 870, compared with A8-3850.. http://www.anandtech...duct/399?vs=107

So, whatever nintendo do with this power7, even if they cut 1 core and give us 3 core cpu... Is going to be much more powerful. I speak more technical, than theoretical guys.. And dont forget that 3 cores in a power7 is 12 threads, while a quad core is 8 threads by intel or amd..

Edited by Orion, 09 April 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[uh20]

I'm going to take a break from speculation, all this rumor vs rumor makes me want to hurl lol, I'm going to try and compile rumors and make sense of it though, it seems like something we need to do

[TriForce_3]

I said it before, I say it now to.. Wii U's cpu is going to be much more powerfull than ps4 and xbox720 from the latest leaks, from fudzilla. A power7 cpu cannot be compared with A8-3850 apu (cpu+gpu chip).. It can do much more. So in this aspect, wii U will be stronger. We have to wait and see the gpu and ram...

Only if the leaks about wii U cpu are faulty, then it may be less powerful.. But they all speak about a power7 cpu.. even IBM...

Wasn't the quote from IBM, that it "contained Power7 technology" or something along those lines? That could mean a lot of stuff. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be more powerful than "on par", and I hope it does have a Power7.

I just don't want anyone getting too excited to experience a letdown.

As for the Manufacturing costs, this doesn't factor in if they package a game either. Still, if it is "no less than $300" we MAY see a price drop after a short period of time. Speculation is that PS360 will lower their prices to combat the new WiiU, so WiiU could follow suit fairly quickly, if needed. This allows them to do so.

Edited by TriForce_3, 09 April 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Plutonas]

that's official till now.. many links by IBM itself.

http://www-03.ibm.co...lease/34683.wss

http://www-03.ibm.co...photo/34681.wss

This alone, rejects the rumor that wii U will have less AI and physics... As its going to be 300%++ better than the current.. it says that! It says that it will have much faster ram inside the cpu (as power7 cpus got) and it will create thrilling experience! 3 times more ram inside the cpu and much faster, can give astronomical better AI and physics.. 360 and ps3 didnt have AI at all..

To give you an example.. Unmodified power7 cpus, can hold up to 4 mb ram per core! that means 16 mb cache cpu.. Surely nintendo will cut some of it, as its extreme for a console.. but I believe is going to be about 8 or so..

Edited by Orion, 09 April 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[AndyG]

Graphics are important but Ninety needs to focus more on third party titles rather than graphics, i also think they really need to try a lot harder than they did before with their online, i personally can't play online cause of my stupid 7gb cap but it needs to be incorporated.
Hopefully you will be able to plug in a hard drive so the WiiU could handle a digital distribution service like Steam or..........Origin(please don't its a horrible program).

[Plutonas]

I never put this programs into my pc, and I will never do in my console.. I prefer physical copies, and play them whatever I want, with or without internet.

Even though I have a couple of steam games, but steam itself is monitored by me and restricted, before it do anything.. lol I mean I dont care if they want to get my pc information (cpu, ram, gpu), but I will never allow scans in my hdd.. And I think steam is not scanning hdds, after all its not loading on startup, Ive programmed it NOT TO.. so never experienced problems.. at least in the PC, you just install via their cliend the game and then I load it directly from the folder, without steam client on..

Edited by Orion, 09 April 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Nollog]

Wasn't the quote from IBM, that it "contained Power7 technology" or something along those lines? That could mean a lot of stuff. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be more powerful than "on par", and I hope it does have a Power7.

https://twitter.com/#!/IBMWatson/statuses/78473693843562498

Could mean anything though really.

[Plutonas]

no it was not that, they said that wii U, use the same tech cpu that watson computers.. So many articles popup saying that wii U will have a power7 cpu.. because watson computers, used a power 7...

Edited by Orion, 09 April 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[TriForce_3]

https://twitter.com/...473693843562498

Could mean anything though really.

That was my point. That quote is still up for interpretation on exactly what that means, IMO.

no it was not that, they said that wii U, use the same tech cpu that watson computers.. So many articles popup saying that wii U will have a power7 cpu.. because watson computers, used a power 7...

I think its up to interpretation, but using the same technology could mean a lot of different things.

In the end, we won't know what it's capable of until it's released as a spec sheet is very unlikely from Ninty.

I do think the low manufacture cost puts them in a very interesting situation and gives them a lot of flexibility to counter any price drops by PS360, which are almost inevitable once Wii U is released.

Edited by TriForce_3, 10 April 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[Nollog]

no it was not that, they said that wii U, use the same tech cpu that watson computers.. So many articles popup saying that wii U will have a power7 cpu.. because watson computers, used a power 7...

Yeah, the base of those articles is the twitch I posted above.
SOURCE, ARTICLE, WORDS.
See even when blogs don't link back to sources, they always exist.
For example, look at Wiiublog.com, pick a story, click every link. One of those links is a source.

[Stewox]

People should stop guessing UE4's requirements ... we have no grounds on talk for that, there are no default sets of demos or any target specs at all.

First of all, the engine doesn't require much to run, the question is HOW it's going to run, how many GFX features could be used, to what extent those features can be used, what kind of fidelity, polygons, ..etc etc.


The fact why the UE4 is reserved for next gen is not any hardware technical requirement, it's subjective/business choice to puch the console vendors for better hardware.

The engines has no GPU requirements it self AT ALL. The engine can RUN, regardless if wiiU is on par or not ... as longs as the CPU is fast enough for the load of the engine code to make it run , it'll run ... but OBVIOUSLY they won't support some legacy CPU instructions that were in early 90' ... all of the last 10 years of CPU instructions should be supported.


The fact that we know WiiU will be modern hardware feature-wise like 2009-2010 - that means it's not far from current PC hardware - UE4 is so obvious it doesn't even have to be confirmed.

Can this people GET it.
Just like detention at school on the greenboard:

ENGINE IS NOT A GRAPHICS DEMO
ENGINE IS NOT A GRAPHICS DEMO ; ENGINE IS BAREBONE EXE WITHOUT ASSETS OR ANY RENDERING OR ANY MODELS OR ANYrainbow JUST A WIREFRAME BLACK-WHITE SCREEN WITH DEBUG CONSOLE ...

The questions is HOW is it going to run ... how not if. For god sakes.


"Features" are:

CPU instruction (MMX, SSE, AMD-V, ...etc)
Example

ENGINE does not RELY on GPU stuff at all - simple switch turns all rendering off. That's how dedicated servers work, you don't need a GPU there. (except motherboard vga to connect the monitor obviously)

GPU features: ATI 7970 Example

• GCN Architecture
  
  • 32 compute units (2048 Stream Processors)
  • 128 Texture Units
  • 128 Z/Stencil ROP Units
  • 32 Color ROP Units
  • Dual Geometry Engines
  • Dual Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE)
• PCI Express 3.0 x16 bus interface
• DirectX® 11-capable graphics
  
  • 9th generation programmable hardware tessellation units
  • Shader Model 5.0
  • DirectCompute 11
  • Accelerated multi-threading
  • HDR texture compression
  • Order-independent transparency
• OpenGL 4.2 support
  
  • Partially Resident Textures (PRT)
    
    • Ultra-high resolution texture streaming
• Image quality enhancement technology
  
  • Up to 24x multi-sample and super-sample anti-aliasing modes
  • Adaptive anti-aliasing
  • Morphological Anti-Aliasing (MLAA)
  • 16x angle independent anisotropic texture filtering
  • 128-bit floating point HDR rendering
• AMD Eyefinity multi-display technology -> (WiiU confirmed, up to 3 displays)
  
  • Up to 6 displays supported with DisplayPort 1.2 Multi-Stream Transport
  • Independent resolutions, refresh rates, color controls, and video overlays
  • Display grouping
  • Combine multiple displays to behave like a single large display
• AMD App Acceleration³
  
  • OpenCL 1.2 Support
  • Microsoft C++ AMP
  • DirectCompute 11
  • Double Precision Floating Point
  • AMD HD Media Accelerator
    
    • Unified Video Decoder (UVD) -> (WiiU undeniable)
      
    • H.264
    • VC-1
    • MPEG-2 (SD & HD)
    • MVC (Blu-ray 3D)
    • MPEG-4 Part 2 (DivX/Xvid)
    • Adobe Flash
    • DXVA 1.0 & 2.0 support
  • Enhanced Video Quality features
    
    • Advanced post-processing and scaling
      
    • Deblocking
    • Denoising
    • Automatic deinterlacing
    • Mosquito noise reduction
    • Edge enhancement
    • 3:2 pulldown detection
  • Advanced video color correction
    
    • Brighter whites processing (Blue Stretch)
    • Independent video gamma control
    • Flesh tone correction
    • Color vibrance control
    • Dynamic contrast
    • Dynamic video range control

[*]AMD HD3D technology -> (WiiU confirmed, 3D capability, not all sub-features)

• Stereoscopic 3D display/glasses support
• Blu-ray 3D support
• Stereoscopic 3D gaming
• 3rd party Stereoscopic 3D middleware software support

[*]AMD CrossFire™ multi-GPU technology²

• Dual, triple or quad-GPU scaling

[*]Cutting-edge integrated display support

• DisplayPort 1.2
  
  • Max resolution: 4096x2160 per display
  • Multi-Stream Transport
  • 21.6 Gbps bandwidth
  • High bit-rate audio
  • 2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D
  • Quad HD/4k video support
• HDMI® (With 4K, 3D, Deep Color and x.v.Color™)
  
  • Max resolution: 4096x2160
  • 1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
  • Quad HD/4k video support
• Dual-link DVI with HDCP
  
  • Max resolution: 2560x1600
• VGA
  
  • Max resolution: 2048x1536

[*]Integrated HD audio controller (WiiU probably has an separate audio DSP, not confirmed)

• Output protected high bit rate 7.1 channel surround sound over HDMI with no additional cables required
• Supports AC-3, AAC, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio formats

[*]AMD PowerPlay™ power management technology

• Automatic power management with low power idle states -> (Allready a standard for consoles, mobiles)

[*]AMD PowerTune technology⁴

• Intelligent TDP management technology
• Dynamic clockspeed/performance enhancement for games

[*]AMD ZeroCore Power⁴

• Ultra-low idle power when the system’s display is off
• Secondary GPUs in an AMD CrossFire™ configuration power down when unneeded

[/list]POWER is:

• X MHz Clock
• X MHz Memory Clock
• X GB Main Memory
• X GB GPU Memory
• X GB/s memory bandwidth
• X TFLOPS Single Precision compute power
• X GFLOPS Double Precision compute power
• X Texture Filrate
• X Pixel Filrate
• X Bus width

----------------------------------------------------

POWER = DEMO REQUIREMENTS
FEATURES = ENGINE REQUIREMENTS (they can disable stuff on-fly and not use it, ANY ENGINE is adaptable ("scalable" as you say)

There is no such thing as this SO-CALLED "scalability" in engines ... they can do what the heck they want in their studio with soruce code, it's all a QUESTION of "is it worth it" for the studio so they decide if they(any devs) want to make a new version and adapt it further - and I know for a reason they (epic) are purposelly FORCING the industry to get better hardware by not "scaling" down their engine ... they(epic) do i publicly, vocally, everywhere, they (epic) were talking on the Game deloper choice award how crap Xbox360 would be with 256 MB RAM if Epic wouldn't force microsoft to add 256 more. This "scaling" down doesn't apply to an ENGINE for Wii sakes, scaling down is usually the term used the ASSETS/DATA of the textures that can't work on less powerful hardware. Scaling down is a much more time consuming process to re-configure all of those textures and re-compress them, re-configure and re-process all the models, adjust other effects that take pixel processing ... testing ... it's a rainbowload of a process compared to engine adaptation of turning off a certain gfx feature so the engine can run without problems. WiiU will probably and OBVIOUSLY not run the same exact version of the engine as other hardware, every engine is a version adapted to the system hardware, PCs obviously have all those on-top stuff turned on for GPU stuff, i mean, these are the basics of the tech industry if you even want to be saying anything at all about hardware speculation ... learn to learn!!!
While making engine to run and adapt to for example "oh this hardware doesn't have AA, so i need to switch it off for my engine to initalize" is a MODIFICATION OF FEW LINES OF CODE IN 10 seconds/minutes + compiling.

People think software engines are like instant-products ... it's not a freaking hamster wheel, which can only have 2 modes: working, not working.

And this is just adaptation of the engine i talked ... the feature wise. The easiest thing ever. But there's the catch, as engines are running multiplatform , that doesn't mean the ENGINE is a multiplatform engine, the engine HAS multiple versions, and on the PC you don't have the console code there, come engines are but not all, Crytek's probably is on the PC since they have the editor that supports console connection but probably disabled for modders, but the console engines that you get on the DVD definitely don't have any PC code since that would .... so they actually have to have multiple versions and rewrittent engines at the studio ... builds after builds;

And also there are release and debug versions as well ... so half of the engine version aren't even released, stuff like they use on PC to write console code...
So you have(example): PC ver, X360 ver, PS3 ver, WiiU ver, PC internal console development, and all those builds for each of those ...

People really thing the engine is just one EXE (version) and it get slapped on hardware. *Oh UE4 is supposably not scalable according to Epic saying "it's next gen only" , so it cannot be scaled-down for WiiU ... supposably WiiU is not next gen* <- Guy looking at the UE4 GPU Demo specs to make this assumption.

I think some people on neogaf really do not want to believe WiiU will smash the competition so they're not learning at all with the counter-productive thinking.


An ENGINE can run ANYWHERE you WANT it to run. The matter is HOW. Enforce this statement into the brain!
If WiiU would be like 10yr old hardware that the effort wouldn't be practically and financially worth it - they won't do it - but that doesn't mean it's not possible technically. These "requirements" and "scalability" is just PR crap, they won't tell you what's going behind the scenes, but none of the developers tells as much what goes behind scenes as john carmack does ... you can watch all of the quakecon2011 videos on youtube.

(okay i wasn't planning to go that far, but when i start something it's hard to stop me to get out whats on my mind)

Somebody please post this on neogaf for any of those who still don't get it there because i see this everywhere.

Edited by Stewox, 11 April 2012 - 02:37 PM.