118 replies to this topic

[Meelow100]

From Neogaf.

"I think the one thing to keep in mind is that the Wii U CPU is based on something new/custom and just because it's clocked a little lower than 5-6 year old CPU's doesn't mean it's less efficient.

This argument can go back to the GPGPU discussion.......taking grunt off the CPU. We also know that physics/AI will work really good on the Wii U after seeing the newest Havok engine and effects being adopted for the system. "

[Penguin101]

didn't the xbox 8 is rumored to have the similar IBM's processor? or is it the same as what you are saying? =_= I didn't pay attention to specs that much.. If so yeah, they will hate it

Currently the leaked specs were

1x 6-8 core Intel processor running at 2Ghz (2 threads/core) and 20MB L3 cache, however I can't find the specs for L1 and L2, I *think* that processor doesn't have L1 or L2, or if they do it's not that spectacular. Think its a Intel Xeon E5-2620(2650) s2011 to be precise

1x 3 core Xenon processor for backwards compatibility with 360 games ONLY

Edited by Penguin101, 10 July 2012 - 08:37 AM.

[Nollog]

I don't think the clock matters.
In fact it hasn't mattered for years.
There's more efficiency in multiple cores, caching and whatnot than just stuff more transistors on the cpu.

It does explain all the anon dev comments about power though.
GHz is still a pretty standard way people judge processing power. In truth though you can have a pentium 4 at 2.4 GHz and an atom running at 1.5GHz beside each other and the atom would be faster.

[Biohazard]

All I'm saying is we have new hardware but they have to find a way to make things work. I'm still getting it day one but don't like the sounds of what I'm hearing.

You guys still aren't getting it. He isn't just saying it runs at a lower speed.he saying they have to find ways to make the game run efficiently trying to get around things the CPU "can't" do. Man just disappointing.

My problem isn't the low clock speed. Its his tone as if they are having to work harder making the game on the Wii U than current gen. This WILL become a problem just watch. This will be a excuse for devs to not port next gen

Wait. What other issues did Harada mention besides power consumption and time? The article didn't look that bad since Harada later said he didn't have a hard time getting Tekken Tag Tournament 2 to work on the Wii U. He admits that isn't far behind its 360/PS3 brethren, which doesn't lend much concerns about the Wii U's hardware if he can figure it out (as well as developers like Vigil Games, Rocksteady, and Gearbox). Otherwise, clockspeed still seems to be the issue because I didn't see Harada specify anything else.

[Bane]

Well remember they are still getting used to the new hardware. So naturally there may be difficulties at first.

[silverismoney]

FIRST THINGS FIRST WHO EVER STARTED THIS THREAD IS A BORN LIAR IT WAS CONFIRMED LOWER CLOCKSPEED IT WAS NOT CONFIRMED WEAK I FIND YOUR WAY OF THINKING FASINATING AS ITS SO DUMB ITS BEYOND COMPREHENSION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIKE WIIBOY101 KEEPS FREAKING TELLING YOU PEOPLE BUT YOU WONT LISTEN ITS 3XCORE BROADWAY AND A CUSTOM CATCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WAKEY WAKEY READ THE FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

POWER 7 MY AZZ ITS 3 BROADWAYS CUSTOMIZED CATCH AT MIMIMUM 1.6GHZ CLOCK SPEED LIKE WIIBOY101 SAID LIKE YEARS BACK CLOCKSPEED LOWER DOESNT MEAN WEAKER """"""""""""""""ONLY IDIOTS IL REPETE THAT ONLY IDIOTS THINK THAT WAY"""""""""""""

OUT OF ORDER EXECUTION/HIGH PER CLOCK EFFICENCIE/BIG CATCH MEMORY/DEDICATED DSP/4TO1 DATA COMPRESSION (TRY THAT ON YOUR SANDY BRIDGE ) HIGH BANDWIDTH MEMORY

3X BROADWAY =15 EXECUTION UNITS XENON HAS 3 AND PS3 HAS 1 PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS

ROLLS EYES PLEASE LOOK UP POWERPC 476FP I THINK THE OBVIOUS IS THERE TO SEE

Edited by silverismoney, 10 July 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[MorbidGod]

Currently the leaked specs were

1x 6-8 core Intel processor running at 2Ghz (2 threads/core) and 20MB L3 cache, however I can't find the specs for L1 and L2, I *think* that processor doesn't have L1 or L2, or if they do it's not that spectacular. Think its a Intel Xeon E5-2620(2650) s2011 to be precise

1x 3 core Xenon processor for backwards compatibility with 360 games ONLY

Correction, a x87 or ARM processor. I highly doubt Microsoft choosing Intel again. They would go with AMD.

All I'm saying is we have new hardware but they have to find a way to make things work. I'm still getting it day one but don't like the sounds of what I'm hearing.

You guys still aren't getting it. He isn't just saying it runs at a lower speed.he saying they have to find ways to make the game run efficiently trying to get around things the CPU "can't" do. Man just disappointing.



My problem isn't the low clock speed. Its his tone as if they are having to work harder making the game on the Wii U than current gen. This WILL become a problem just watch. This will be a excuse for devs to not port next gen

I don't think you are getting it. He says the clock speed is a little low. He says that they have to get creative with the processor. He then compares it back when the PS3 was first released, saying they had to "be creative" and work around it.

He isn't saying it's a weak console. He is saying its a little challenging because its newer hardware that is different. Iwata even said as much. The longer the Wii U is around, the easier it will be to develop for.

Now one thing to nite, is the Wii U will be powerful sure, but if Epic doesn't make Unreal 4 for Wii U because they are lazy, Nintendo might have problems. But since Epic CEO said he thinks tge Wii U will sell well, we wont see that.

[Penguin101]

FIRST THINGS FIRST WHO EVER STARTED THIS THREAD IS A BORN LIAR IT WAS CONFIRMED LOWER CLOCKSPEED IT WAS NOT CONFIRMED WEAK I FIND YOUR WAY OF THINKING FASINATING AS ITS SO DUMB ITS BEYOND COMPREHENSION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIKE WIIBOY101 KEEPS FREAKING TELLING YOU PEOPLE BUT YOU WONT LISTEN ITS 3XCORE BROADWAY AND A CUSTOM CATCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WAKEY WAKEY READ THE FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

POWER 7 MY AZZ ITS 3 BROADWAYS CUSTOMIZED CATCH AT MIMIMUM 1.6GHZ CLOCK SPEED LIKE WIIBOY101 SAID LIKE YEARS BACK CLOCKSPEED LOWER DOESNT MEAN WEAKER """"""""""""""""ONLY IDIOTS IL REPETE THAT ONLY IDIOTS THINK THAT WAY"""""""""""""

OUT OF ORDER EXECUTION/HIGH PER CLOCK EFFICENCIE/BIG CATCH MEMORY/DEDICATED DSP/4TO1 DATA COMPRESSION (TRY THAT ON YOUR SANDY BRIDGE ) HIGH BANDWIDTH MEMORY

3X BROADWAY =15 EXECUTION UNITS XENON HAS 3 AND PS3 HAS 1 PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS

ROLLS EYES PLEASE LOOK UP POWERPC 476FP I THINK THE OBVIOUS IS THERE TO SEE

No need to shout. It makes you seem, a little crazy coconut ya know?

I think the only way we're ever going to find out is when someone opens it up, or if IBM release the details. I'm surprised that no-one has spoken out after the NDAs expired after E3 2012.

I'm confused by all the conflicting evidence. IBM said themselves that it'd use similar technology to the POWER 7, does that mean a Broadway processor with L3 cache? I'm not a massive tech head, I'd call myself in intermediate, what's the difference between a 3 core @ 2 - 3 Ghz Broadway processor and a 3 core custom 3 Ghz POWER 7 processor?

Edited by Penguin101, 10 July 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[silverismoney]

GEKKO 1 INSTRUCTION PER CLOCK// XBOX 1 CELERON 1 INSTRUCTION PER CLOCK

XENON 2 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK //BROADWAY 2 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK AS YOU CAN SEE PER CLOCK EFFICENCIE HAS DOUBLED

POWERPC 32 BIT AT 45NM IS 5 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK EFFECTIVE VS ONLY 2 FOR XENON AND BROADWAY

XENON 2 INSTRUCTIONS 3200 CLOCKS X 3 CORES =19200 INSTRUCTIONS INLINE PROCESSING !!!!!!!!!!!<<<<<<<

3X BROADWAY 2 CORES AT 1.6GHZ 1600 X 5 INSTRUTIONS X 3 CORES =24000 INSTRUCTIONS OUT OF ORDER

3MB CATCH = 3X X360 6 X PS3 AND 12 X Wii !!!!!!!!!!<<<<<<


broadway cpu has 5 execution units xenon has 3 3x core broadway would have 15 exection units CLOCK SPEED OR NOT COMPARING A DINOSURE WITH 1 EXECUTION UNIT PER CORE AGAINST A TRUE MULTYI TASKING DESK TOP SPEC OUT OF ORDER CPU IS BEYOND STUPID

the gpu is compute shaders and opencl tpye deal the cpu is highly effective and out of order and theres a dedicated sound processor xenon is very very weak for the clock speed and has to dpo the work 3 PROCESSORS PLUS THE GPU ARE DOING IN WIIU

a 1.6ghz celeron dual core sandy bridge cpu kills a XENON and a 3x core broadway at 45nm 3mb catch would utterly destroy a celeron duakl core sandy bridge 1.6ghz


enough allready with the clock speed = weak a 3x core broadway at 1.6ghz built around tech taken from powerpc 476fp documents CLEARLY POO's IN THE MOUTH OF BOTH XENON X360S CPU AND A SANDY BRIDGE LOWER CLOCK CPU the ad a DSP and likely a ARM it clearly way above the x360

take into account broadway cores have custom 4to1 data compression and a custom graphics write gather burst pipes and real time de compresssion TRY DOING THESE THINGS ON XENON OR A INTEL IT AINT HAPPENING

broadway is a custom FOR NINTENDO gaming cpu at 45nm multi core and 128 bit bus and high clock speeds we are looking at 15 x the cpu of wii

Edited by silverismoney, 10 July 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Penguin101]

GEKKO 1 INSTRUCTION PER CLOCK// XBOX 1 CELERON 1 INSTRUCTION PER CLOCK

XENON 2 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK //BROADWAY 2 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK AS YOU CAN SEE PER CLOCK EFFICENCIE HAS DOUBLED

POWERPC 32 BIT AT 45NM IS 5 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK EFFECTIVE VS ONLY 2 FOR XENON AND BROADWAY

XENON 2 INSTRUCTIONS 3200 CLOCKS X 3 CORES =19200 INSTRUCTIONS INLINE PROCESSING !!!!!!!!!!!<<<<<<<

3X BROADWAY 2 CORES AT 1.6GHZ 1600 X 5 INSTRUTIONS X 3 CORES =24000 INSTRUCTIONS OUT OF ORDER

3MB CATCH = 3X X360 6 X PS3 AND 12 X Wii !!!!!!!!!!<<<<<<


broadway cpu has 5 execution units xenon has 3 3x core broadway would have 15 exection units CLOCK SPEED OR NOT COMPARING A DINOSURE WITH 1 EXECUTION UNIT PER CORE AGAINST A TRUE MULTYI TASKING DESK TOP SPEC OUT OF ORDER CPU IS BEYOND STUPID

the gpu is compute shaders and opencl tpye deal the cpu is highly effective and out of order and theres a dedicated sound processor xenon is very very weak for the clock speed and has to dpo the work 3 PROCESSORS PLUS THE GPU ARE DOING IN WIIU

a 1.6ghz celeron dual core sandy bridge cpu kills a XENON and a 3x core broadway at 45nm 3mb catch would utterly destroy a celeron duakl core sandy bridge 1.6ghz


enough allready with the clock speed = weak a 3x core broadway at 1.6ghz built around tech taken from powerpc 476fp documents CLEARLY POO's IN THE MOUTH OF BOTH XENON X360S CPU AND A SANDY BRIDGE LOWER CLOCK CPU the ad a DSP and likely a ARM it clearly way above the x360

take into account broadway cores have custom 4to1 data compression and a custom graphics write gather burst pipes and real time de compresssion TRY DOING THESE THINGS ON XENON OR A INTEL IT AINT HAPPENING

broadway is a custom FOR NINTENDO gaming cpu at 45nm multi core and 128 bit bus and high clock speeds we are looking at 15 x the cpu of wii

Sounds good, would it be insane if they pushed the Core clock to 2 or 3 Ghz? Or do you think that'd overheat the system/be overkill/be ridiculously expensive?

Edited by Penguin101, 10 July 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Penguin101]

Was it a bad choice of wording on his part? Could he not have said the Wii U cpu is based on new technolgy and we are just trying to understand the ins and outs of the tech. But once devs figure it out it should be a very easy process and make game development easier than this gen. The wording the way it sounded just didn't set well with me. Developers are gonna need a reason to port their big franchises(GTA, Shooters, and next gen games) to nintendo consoles. They are gonna be iffy about what the audience is and if it will sell well. I just think this low clock speed cpu can be an out for lots of them to say oh because of that the game won't run properly and thus your favorite 3rd party franchise will be missing on the Wii U.

Well we've heard that other developers have said that the games port pretty easily, and run in fact smoother. This is the first "complaint" I've heard

[silverismoney]

i hate to burst your illusions guys but a tri core next gen broadway with 3MB catch using ibm edram or combo of edram and sram custom designed for nintendo IS NOT A POWER 7

its a powerpc 32 bit 45NM tri core deal system on chip or system on package with 3mb catch its likey running a AMD E class gpu a embedded gpu with gddr5 ram edram and 3 broadway 2 cores maybe a second pool of gddr3 or slower dram

memory could be 1gig gddr5 and 512mb gddr3 or ddr2 the gpu getting 32mb edram the cpu getting 3mb of ether sram or edram then a second pool of memory like wii and gamecube had

ad a dedicated sound processor and a ARM co cpu theres yo wii U guys

[Penguin101]

i hate to burst your illusions guys but a tri core next gen broadway with 3MB catch using ibm edram or combo of edram and sram custom designed for nintendo IS NOT A POWER 7

its a powerpc 32 bit 45NM tri core deal system on chip or system on package with 3mb catch its likey running a AMD E class gpu a embedded gpu with gddr5 ram edram and 3 broadway 2 cores maybe a second pool of gddr3 or slower dram

memory could be 1gig gddr5 and 512mb gddr3 or ddr2 the gpu getting 32mb edram the cpu getting 3mb of ether sram or edram then a second pool of memory like wii and gamecube had

ad a dedicated sound processor and a ARM co cpu theres yo wii U guys

I'm just still confused with IBM confirming it had "the same processor technology found in Watson" is that just a figure of speech, does it mean it contains L3 cahce? What does it mean?

[silverismoney]

I'm just still confused with IBM confirming it had "the same processor technology found in Watson" is that just a figure of speech, does it mean it contains L3 cahce? What does it mean?

IBM WERE CLEARLY TALKING IBM EDRAM THEY WERE REFERING TO THE CATCH MEMORY AND IBM EDRAM TECH NOT POWER 7 THERES YOUR ANSWER

MY 10 cent worth is as follows theres a 32mb gpu ibm edram pool of memory very very fast and very very high bandwidth and the 3mb catch to cpu is ether ibm edram or a mix of edram and sram SO THERES YOUR WATSON CONECTION RIGHT THERE the 32mb gpu catch buffer is likely accessible to the cpu also

the edram to gpu is likely 512 bit the main ram is likely 128 bit so the gpu would have a 512 bit conection to buffer/catch and a 128 bit conection to main ram

wiiu looks to be a E class AMD gpu and gddr5 with broadway cpus and other co processors built in and a second pool of ram added likely gddr3 or ddr2 MAYBE FAST MAIN RAM LIKE FC RAM COULD BE USED


this console is built around amd/atis E class embeddede gpu and gddr5 tech the puzzel is almost complete

Edited by silverismoney, 10 July 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[MorbidGod]

Your not getting it. He is saying "THEY HAVE TO BE CREATIVE" that alone assures a lot of devs won't put in the time to make games right. Like I said the go to excuse has been laid out. This low clock speed need to be creative cpu will bite the I want third party support gamers in the a$$. I'm buying it because I know there will be awesome games but this will be the start of something bigger.

He also said they had to do that with the PS3. Read what he says. Not the commentary. Did the PS3 lack 3rd party support? Yes, slightly because of the problem he mentioned. It wasn't easy to develop for. Yes the Wii U may not be easy to develop for and a few developers may be lazy and not work with it. I doubt it though since the PS3 didn't really have a massive problem.

Was it a bad choice of wording on his part? Could he not have said the Wii U cpu is based on new technolgy and we are just trying to understand the ins and outs of the tech. But once devs figure it out it should be a very easy process and make game development easier than this gen. The wording the way it sounded just didn't set well with me. Developers are gonna need a reason to port their big franchises(GTA, Shooters, and next gen games) to nintendo consoles. They are gonna be iffy about what the audience is and if it will sell well. I just think this low clock speed cpu can be an out for lots of them to say oh because of that the game won't run properly and thus your favorite 3rd party franchise will be missing on the Wii U.

Remember, the Xbox 720 is going to have a low clock speed too. Remember, he is probably speaking Japanese and the translation is usually wonky.

IBM WERE CLEARLY TALKING IBM EDRAM THEY WERE REFERING TO THE CATCH MEMORY AND IBM EDRAM TECH NOT POWER 7 THERES YOUR ANSWER

MY 10 cent worth is as follows theres a 32mb gpu ibm edram pool of memory very very fast and very very high bandwidth and the 3mb catch to cpu is ether ibm edram or a mix of edram and sram SO THERES YOUR WATSON CONECTION RIGHT THERE the 32mb gpu catch buffer is likely accessible to the cpu also

the edram to gpu is likely 512 bit the main ram is likely 128 bit so the gpu would have a 512 bit conection to buffer/catch and a 128 bit conection to main ram

wiiu looks to be a E class AMD gpu and gddr5 with broadway cpus and other co processors built in and a second pool of ram added likely gddr3 or ddr2 MAYBE FAST MAIN RAM LIKE FC RAM COULD BE USED


this console is built around amd/atis E class embeddede gpu and gddr5 tech the puzzel is almost complete

Nintendo has confirmed it is A CUSTOM POWER processor. Not a newer Broadway. Not a PoowerPC. POWER. Notice I didn't say POWER7. That is because they are using some of that technology. We can assume they mean edram because that makes sense with streaming to multiple screens. In fact they themselves said thats what they meant.

[Socalmuscle]

LOL

Nothing to see here.

"clock is kinda low?"

i suppose a 2.6 or 3 ghz i7 is has a "kinda low" clock compared to a 4 ghz P4 eh? And yet, the P4 can't hold a candle to the i7. But if you develop something that doesn't use the capabilities of the i7 and simply needs cycles, then the P4 would artificially seem superior. same thing here. Non-news in other words. Harada is just being a rebel. and no one can argue with him because he is too vague. He actually doesn't even say exactly what the issue is. His "creativity" could actually be *gasp* writing proper code to utlize the Wii U CPU's superior architecture. But I won't go there...

Architectural differences (Wii U has a Power CPU with the PPC instruction set) are going to make you do a little work. but it sounds like they are being lazy. Probably won't be a great game to buy in that case, but I'll withhold judgement until they finish their project and launch it.

The Wii U can duplicate any game the 360 or PS3 can.
However, the old consoles cannot recreate the same quality of games the Wii U hardware is capable of. It's a powerful machine. Significantly more so than the current systems in every way.

Interesting how he complains about the CPU while Gearbox singles it out as to why the Wii U will host the best version of their game.

Will be fun when the system is in the hands of iFixit.

Nintendo is too controlling with what we can say. To the point that they are actually allowing a lot of confusion that they could easily mitigate. But that's their way. I almost think they thrive on this stuff. It's kinda creepy.