39 replies to this topic

[3Dude]

The Wii U has a CPU that wipes the floor with Cell and Xenon. It is a very, very nice processor.

The GPU does as well. People have been lowballing this aspect of the system for a while. It is quite the performer.

The RAM allows both to work with a lot more resources and will allow for greater variation in textures, animations, larger assets, higher texture res, etc. this will be the first time a videogame system can actually truly benefit from the greater storage capacity of Blu-ray derived media as the RAM allows for larger chunks of that media to be in play.

The Wii U is quite a bit more powerful than the 360 and PS3.

Old dev kits from last year featured a quad core Power chip clocked at 3 ghz.

Today, the chip has been upgraded (not clocked higher).

The GPU used to be from 2010. It now has the foundation of a card released in early 2011 that has been enhanced and tailored to the console.

I wouldn't rule out a 10x performance jump from current systems when the overall hardware is factored in (in this case, the performance of the whole is much greater than the sum of its parts). And it will be noticeable. Not like the 360 from the PS2, but similar to the GCN from the N64. There will be some small similarities - especially at first - then there will be major differentiators. We won't see this until about a year after launch however due to political games and development time with final kit.

At launch, the Wii U will look slightly better than 360 and PS3. A year later, it will look far better.

I'm not disputing any of this.

Just being an out of order processor means it wipes the FLOOR with any in order processor remotely close in clock speed.

Just that alone means wii us say missed branch prediction penalty will be non existant compared to the whoppers that xenon and cell had...

YES, the gpu is going to be pretty dang good.

But not to the extent needed for a jump in graphical fidelity like we saw with ps2 to ps3.

NO SYSTEM is going to make that jump this time.

Its just not in the cards right now. The wii u is not going to be left behind like the wii. I don't even think the gap is going to be ps2 to xbox size.

But at the same time I'm not going to start singing the praises of the system until I'm sure its not going to be misinterpreted or joined into a stream of hype like the wii u is going to be to 360 what 360 was to xbox. Because its not, and I don't want to have to deal with the fallout of such ridiculous expectations.

[Socalmuscle]

I'm not disputing any of this.

Just being an out of order processor means it wipes the FLOOR with any in order processor remotely close in clock speed.

Just that alone means wii us say missed branch prediction penalty will be non existant compared to the whoppers that xenon and cell had...

YES, the gpu is going to be pretty dang good.

But not to the extent needed for a jump in graphical fidelity like we saw with ps2 to ps3.

NO SYSTEM is going to make that jump this time.

Its just not in the cards right now. The wii u is not going to be left behind like the wii. I don't even think the gap is going to be ps2 to xbox size.

But at the same time I'm not going to start singing the praises of the system until I'm sure its not going to be misinterpreted or joined into a stream of hype like the wii u is going to be to 360 what 360 was to xbox. Because its not, and I don't want to have to deal with the fallout of such ridiculous expectations.

Very true.

This new generation is going to be somewhat similar to the current, while the current to the previous was an unbelievable jump into a whole new world of performance.

[thehappening]

there is no debate theres an agenda that agenda being a anti nintendo industry and fony and ms fans bricking there underpants at another generation of geting there azz wuupped and nintendo already winning the console war

is wiiu next gen YES in far more than 1 way also YES debate over nthe only people talking the poo are sony fanboys ms fanboys (not hardcores thats there shield word) and a scared frightened imature industry

[3Dude]

I want a source of the 40-50x stronger thing.

And of course I'm not an idiot, resolution isn't everything. I just used resolution as an example and excluding the framebuffer limit. I meant that 40-50x is just a very high value.

Source? You mean you don't know how to find this information yourself?

Well, why are you attempting to argue with it?

I COULD give you the source to many sites with these general multipliers. You could find many just by googling ps3 30 or 40 or 50 times more powerful than ps2.

But Ill do you better than that. Ill TEACH you how to aquire this information on your own. You'll be playing with power. The Internet provides EVERYTHING you need at your finger tips. $*&% Looking at the ramblings of crap journalists spewing crap they know nothing about. YOULL know nore than THEY DO!

OK first you need HARD INFORMATION from a RESPECTABLE SOURCE

PlayStation 2 Architecture Prof. Aaron Lanterman School

There are tons of pdfs like this. Tbis is GOOD solid information. Go ahead and find o.e or two more for the ps2 to get some more system complete information.

Copy pasta this into google. Open the pdf. You now have more information on the ps2 than 99% of the people on the internet.

Okay, yeah its like a freaking playground in these things.

All right, Now start finding performance measures to compare.

(Protip, clock speed is an Incomplete answer, and thus worthless on its own)

Ram capacity (Straightforward, how many MB) ram clock speed (straightforward how many MHz), ram type (VERY IMPORTANT, for example, ddr can 'double pump' data and performs twice as much as other ram at the same capacity and clock. This also determines latency, another huge factor.

Lets go back to clock speed. Its worthless on its own, so.... What do we do with it?

Well since clock speed is how many cycles are performed in a second, we need to find out how many instructions or
operations can be performed in a cycle?

You find that number and multiply it by the cycles per second!

Lets do floating point operations.

For ps2 you will arrive at about 6 Gflops.

Google similar pdfs for ps3, and you will find 230 Gflops.

Quite the difference, though sitting at 38x, not quite in the 40x ra.ge I described. Other comparisons will be a little less, some will be a LOT more. Youll find it evens out.

Of course, this process gets you something called Peak theoretical flops, Its a useful enough general comparison... But NO system can EVER reach this number, so naturally its used to market the processors, lol. When systems are relatively close in power, the 'weaker' one could even come out on top if it is more capable of sustaining performance closer to its peak theoretical max.... Though that's clearly not the case here.

Keep doing this for various performance capabilities between ps2 and ps3.... And you won't need to ask for source. You'll BE one.

[thehappening]

cell and xenons flops performance is as fake as paris hilton its made up with totally BOLLOX way of counting flops and cpus are not rated in flops anyway LOL

[Hinkik]

Source? You mean you don't know how to find this information yourself?

Well, why are you attempting to argue with it?

I COULD give you the source to many sites with these general multipliers. You could find many just by googling ps3 30 or 40 or 50 times more powerful than ps2.

But Ill do you better than that. Ill TEACH you how to aquire this information on your own. You'll be playing with power. The Internet provides EVERYTHING you need at your finger tips. $*&% Looking at the ramblings of crap journalists spewing crap they know nothing about. YOULL know nore than THEY DO!

OK first you need HARD INFORMATION from a RESPECTABLE SOURCE

PlayStation 2 Architecture Prof. Aaron Lanterman School

There are tons of pdfs like this. Tbis is GOOD solid information. Go ahead and find o.e or two more for the ps2 to get some more system complete information.

Copy pasta this into google. Open the pdf. You now have more information on the ps2 than 99% of the people on the internet.

Okay, yeah its like a freaking playground in these things.

All right, Now start finding performance measures to compare.

(Protip, clock speed is an Incomplete answer, and thus worthless on its own)

Ram capacity (Straightforward, how many MB) ram clock speed (straightforward how many MHz), ram type (VERY IMPORTANT, for example, ddr can 'double pump' data and performs twice as much as other ram at the same capacity and clock. This also determines latency, another huge factor.

Lets go back to clock speed. Its worthless on its own, so.... What do we do with it?

Well since clock speed is how many cycles are performed in a second, we need to find out how many instructions or
operations can be performed in a cycle?

You find that number and multiply it by the cycles per second!

Lets do floating point operations.

For ps2 you will arrive at about 6 Gflops.

Google similar pdfs for ps3, and you will find 230 Gflops.

Quite the difference, though sitting at 38x, not quite in the 40x ra.ge I described. Other comparisons will be a little less, some will be a LOT more. Youll find it evens out.

Of course, this process gets you something called Peak theoretical flops, Its a useful enough general comparison... But NO system can EVER reach this number, so naturally its used to market the processors, lol. When systems are relatively close in power, the 'weaker' one could even come out on top if it is more capable of sustaining performance closer to its peak theoretical max.... Though that's clearly not the case here.

Keep doing this for various performance capabilities between ps2 and ps3.... And you won't need to ask for source. You'll BE one.

Kay thx.

But tflops is that really the way to tell how good general performance something is?

Well if it is then I guess all these benchmarks we do is unnecessary and everyone does it for fun cause you can just measure it in tflops?

Nah... Isn't there something more when it comes to performance? I don't know just speculating right now cause I'm too lazy to start googling about that.

[3Dude]

cell and xenons flops performance is as fake as paris hilton its made up with totally BOLLOX way of counting flops and cpus are not rated in flops anyway LOL

This is VERY TRUE. Neither the ps3 nor the xenos can get anywhere NEAR its peak theoretical flops. (Neither can the emotion engine) in sustainable realworld performance.

Although I did spend a paragraph explaining this.

Kay thx.

But tflops is that really the way to tell how good general performance something is?

Well if it is then I guess all these benchmarks we do is unnecessary and everyone does it for fun cause you can just measure it in tflops?

Nah... Isn't there something more when it comes to performance? I don't know just speculating right now cause I'm too lazy to start googling about that.

There's a lot more. I left it up to you to discover the rest .

[SDDMN]

Its impossible for it to be anything BUT next gen.

Its the first system released after the seventh generation of game consoles.

Its the first system of the eigth generation.

Technically, the 3DS and Vita are the start of the eighth generation of gaming, with the 3DS being the successor to the DS and the Vita being the successor to the PSP.

EDIT: I saw the console part of that post, my bad.

But still, when it comes to gaming handhelds or consoles, the 3DS and Vita are the beginning of the eighth generation.

Edited by SDDMN, 14 August 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[Socalmuscle]

Let's be realistic and end this debate with two significant quotes from Iwata. Here are the two quotes from Iwata.

"I think that the Wii U will be powerful enough to run very high spec games but the architecture is obviously different than other consoles so there is a need to do some tuning if you really want to max out the performance.


We’re not going to deliver a system that has so much horsepower that no matter what you put on there it will run beautifully, and also, because we’re selling the system with the GamePad – which adds extra cost to the package – we don’t want to inflate the cost of each unit by putting in excessive CPU power"

"While existing platforms have engines that development teams have tuned and optimized for six to seven years after their respective launches, the Wii U is a new platform that has slightly different architecture and, since development teams have only just begun development on software for it, they are only at the halfway point to utilising its full potential," he said.

So what did he just say in those two quotes? The Wii U isn't going to be ultra powerful(if this wasn't already known). Yes the rumors are true the Wii U CPU isn't that powerful yes more modern architecture, more efficent but not leaps and bounds better than what this gen offers. Now the GPU(which is going to be our saving grace) is a different story. They will be using a modern GPU(2010-2012). They will have all up to date shaders and effects that the PS4 and 720 will have.... Although not using the same amount of Gflops. All in all this is what you can expect. 3rd party games will look like low maybe on a good engine(with developers who care) medium settings compared to PS4 and 720 being high settings. Go to youtube and look up videos of games running on different settings on PC and you will see what I mean. Yes Wii U will be able to run next-gen engines but the game won't look as good as it will on PS4 and 720. Plan and simple if you are a graphics whore "DON'T" but a Wii U you are going to be disappointed. But for me the console will do just fine. Can't wait to see what nintendo is cooking up for us. Going to be AMAZING!

actually, the Ps4 and 720 are going to be or SHOULD be more powerful by default. Let's not forget, MS and especially Sony have bled quite a bit of money and need to profit, so they can't just throw everything in their consoles either. they also have to compete with the UPad. so the wii U is sitting pretty.

Also, if you are a "graphics whore" you will be especially pleased with the Wii U. As it is right now, games that are out on the PC and for Wii U will feature a better looking game on Wii U for many reasons.

Of course, later on in the console's life, the PC will once again leap ahead and the 720 and PS4 should look somewhat better. But what iwata stated about cost/price balance is what everyone has to do, but Nintendo is the only company that is that transparent, while the others will spin everything.

It's common sense.

[Grooseland]

Ok, so...

Who thinks Microsoft and Sony will deliver a super powerful console that will destroy the Wii U graphically?

be honest.

[3Dude]

Ok, so...

Who thinks Microsoft and Sony will deliver a super powerful console that will destroy the Wii U graphically?

be honest.

Not a chance. It would be financial suicide.

No two generations exist in the same situation. The world now, isn't the same as it was in 2003 when the current gen systems were being designed.

The only company In a position to blow money making a console jump like last gen is microsoft, and they don't seem very interested in persuing that path this time.

[Grooseland]

The only company In a position to blow money making a console jump like last gen is microsoft, and they don't seem very interested in persuing that path this time.

Exactly.

I Totally agree.

[3Dude]

This seems a good place for this.

Sumo surprised by wii u gpu power and ram.

They are praising things most of us already know, but its yet another chip in the CONFIRMED NAMED devs saying wii u is not simply a 360/ps3 7 years late.

The executive producer of Sonic And All-Stars Racing Transformed has told Official Nintendo Magazine that he was surprised by the Wii U specs, specifically the GPU and memory which are better than the Sumo developers expected.

The Wii U has way more memory, so we can take advantage of that with less compression on elements and textures, so it will look all lovely and shiny."

www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/41185/wii-u-specs-surprising-says-sonic-developer/

The wii u likely won't be a powerhouse of next gen (honestly, with the collapse of moores law... I don't see much powerhouses at all in our future.... immediate future that is, a new technology will inevitably come along putting us back on track again, vacuum tubes-transistors-integrated circuit-etc) but it won't be a wii.
Its going to a respectable little console.

Edited by 3Dude, 24 August 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[WisdomPowerCourage]

I have an idea, why don't we just play the games and have our own opinions about if they look good.

[3Dude]

I have an idea, why don't we just play the games and have our own opinions about if they look good.

That's a great response....

To posts derailing a thread about games or gamepad possibilities with power talk.
But this is a thread specifically about wii u power, on a board specifically about wii u hardware.

This is not the place for that discussion, and not the place for that post

[WisdomPowerCourage]

That's a great response....

To posts derailing a thread about games or gamepad possibilities with power talk.
But this is a thread specifically about wii u power, on a board specifically about wii u hardware.

This is not the place for that discussion, and not the place for that post

Yeah, it was a joke.

[3Dude]

Yeah, it was a joke.

Yeah, it was a joke.

.
...
....


Oh.

Yeah... er, mine too... heh ....

[WisdomPowerCourage]

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...
....


Oh.

Yeah... er, mine too... heh ....

Haha, it's fine.