30 replies to this topic

[3Dude]

Power draw is definitely not the whole picture. I upgraded my PC GPU from the 8800GTS which used around 115w to a GT240 which uses about 65w and is slightly more powerful GPU wise.

Then there is the fact that generally the only PCs which concentrate on optimising power efficiency are laptops and tablets, so its not good comparing to desktop GPUs. Depending on how much Nintendo tweaked the architecture of the GPU from the stock its clear there is plenty of potential for reducing power draw.

Also, I believe a big reason Nintendo wanted to keep the specs low is not just cost, but form factor.

One of the big selling points of the Wii is that its size and relatively silent operation, made it fit in the living room without being intrusive.

When I first got my Xbox 360 I HATED how noisy it was, I don't think the Wii would have sold anywhere near as well if it had been as big or noisy.

I'm certainly hoping the Wii U will not be significantly louder than the Wii, it will make it awesome for Netflix which I am currently running on a PS3 Fat which is annoyingly loud.

Uh, no one said any of the things you are attempting to retort....

And you brought up that a 2009 card that takes less power than a 2006 card is a little more powerful... But that was already brought up, along with the fact that if you had a HIGH range 2009 gpu instead of a MIDrange one the power draw would be more in line with your HIGH RANGE 2006 gpu.

[Desert Punk]

High end cpus and many laptops components will be made with a more dense fabrication process like 32nm. It costs a lot more money to use this fabrication process as its relatively new so is reserved normally for more expensive equipment. In time that fabrication process will take over from 40 or 45nm at the budget end. If the wii u was made with 32nm fabrication clearly it would run cooler and consume less power but it may have added a lot of money to the cost. I could only guess maybe as little as $10 or maybe up to $50. I'm sure later wii u's will probably have a revised chipset using the 32nm process and by that time perhaps more expensive equipment will be on a 28 or 25nm fabrication process.

The original xbox 360 was a 90nm process for both gpu and cpu. Then the next revision went to 90nm for the gpu and 65nm for the cpu. Then both became 65nm for the jasper model which was much more reliable. The xbox slim combined both gpu and cpu in the same silicon at 45nm. Later a revision of that incorporated the 360 upscaling chip into the main chip at 45nm.

The PS3 went down a similar route although last time I checked hadn't incorporated both chips together. Maybe the playstation super slim model will do that.

The power consumption figure given out indicates the console is going to be at the lower end of expectations I would say either by having a more budget architecture or simply running better hardware at lower speeds. Clearly the feature set of the gpu is going to be more advanced than ps3/360 but we don't yet know how the wii u will compare in raw performance with regard polygons and texturing. The cpu side appears to be the casualty of the wii u design. The cpu of the wii is the same as the cpu of the gamecube in real terms and to offer a triple core version of that at higher speeds like may be 1.6-2.4ghz is not going to be competitive with the ps3 or 360 even if it offers some enhancements.

Madden 13 on wii u does not have the infinity engine physics system.

http://uk.gamespot.c...eatures-6390624

Fifa 13 is missing the improved AI on wii u.

http://www.destructo...es-232507.phtml

Missing particle effects and lighting on Assasins Creed

http://wiiudaily.com...ssing-features/

All these missing features rely on cpu power. Its clear developers are struggling with the wii u with regard cpu power. It has bags of memory, a large 32 megabytes of ultra fast video memory, a feature rich gpu but there is something lacking with regards cpu.

When you take in all the information available it seems like the wii u will struggle with games that are cpu intensive. Best examples of these I think are Bethedsa games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim because so much is happening simultanously in the game world.

[3Dude]

High end cpus and many laptops components will be made with a more dense fabrication process like 32nm. It costs a lot more money to use this fabrication process as its relatively new so is reserved normally for more expensive equipment. In time that fabrication process will take over from 40 or 45nm at the budget end. If the wii u was made with 32nm fabrication clearly it would run cooler and consume less power but it may have added a lot of money to the cost. I could only guess maybe as little as $10 or maybe up to $50. I'm sure later wii u's will probably have a revised chipset using the 32nm process and by that time perhaps more expensive equipment will be on a 28 or 25nm fabrication process.

The original xbox 360 was a 90nm process for both gpu and cpu. Then the next revision went to 90nm for the gpu and 65nm for the cpu. Then both became 65nm for the jasper model which was much more reliable. The xbox slim combined both gpu and cpu in the same silicon at 45nm. Later a revision of that incorporated the 360 upscaling chip into the main chip at 45nm.

The PS3 went down a similar route although last time I checked hadn't incorporated both chips together. Maybe the playstation super slim model will do that.

The power consumption figure given out indicates the console is going to be at the lower end of expectations I would say either by having a more budget architecture or simply running better hardware at lower speeds. Clearly the feature set of the gpu is going to be more advanced than ps3/360 but we don't yet know how the wii u will compare in raw performance with regard polygons and texturing. The cpu side appears to be the casualty of the wii u design. The cpu of the wii is the same as the cpu of the gamecube in real terms and to offer a triple core version of that at higher speeds like may be 1.6-2.4ghz is not going to be competitive with the ps3 or 360 even if it offers some enhancements.

Madden 13 on wii u does not have the infinity engine physics system.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/madden-nfl-13-for-wii-u-omits-several-features-6390624

Fifa 13 is missing the improved AI on wii u.

http://www.destructoid.com/preview-fifa-13-wii-u-has-some-fly-new-features-232507.phtml

Missing particle effects and lighting on Assasins Creed

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/08/assassins-creed-3-wii-u-missing-features/

All these missing features rely on cpu power. Its clear developers are struggling with the wii u with regard cpu power. It has bags of memory, a large 32 megabytes of ultra fast video memory, a feature rich gpu but there is something lacking with regards cpu.

When you take in all the information available it seems like the wii u will struggle with games that are cpu intensive. Best examples of these I think are Bethedsa games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim because so much is happening simultanously in the game world.

I see where your assumptions are coming from, but interviews on both fifa and madden both state the infinity physics engine and fifas ai were time issues and had nothing to do with system power, and would be in later releases (provided they are still relevant) but just not the first titles. both teams stated they had to prioritize what was going to make it into the game, and what would be left behind.

Being that the things you are lauding are general purpose tasks, (except for particals and lighting, whoch is a gpu task, and very obviously a symptom of a demo of an unfinished build) and not effectively done with floating point, which ps360 prioritized, all signs are pointing to wii u being much stronger in this area, as the cpu is a stronger gp processor (xenon and cell were actually HORRIBLE at gp). and the gpu is dedicated for general purpose as well.

This is why havok announced wii u would be running their most advanced physics engine which are actually ai's now.

Edited by 3Dude, 16 September 2012 - 04:28 AM.

[giggity3000]

[Noonabites]

My thoughts exactly.

[thehappening]

wiiu cpu 45nm wiiu gpu 45nm that was confirmed like a eon ago powerpc 4xx series is 45nm and the gpu is based on a older 55nm processor thats shrunk updated and had edram added and is now 45nm

High end cpus and many laptops components will be made with a more dense fabrication process like 32nm. It costs a lot more money to use this fabrication process as its relatively new so is reserved normally for more expensive equipment. In time that fabrication process will take over from 40 or 45nm at the budget end. If the wii u was made with 32nm fabrication clearly it would run cooler and consume less power but it may have added a lot of money to the cost. I could only guess maybe as little as $10 or maybe up to $50. I'm sure later wii u's will probably have a revised chipset using the 32nm process and by that time perhaps more expensive equipment will be on a 28 or 25nm fabrication process.

The original xbox 360 was a 90nm process for both gpu and cpu. Then the next revision went to 90nm for the gpu and 65nm for the cpu. Then both became 65nm for the jasper model which was much more reliable. The xbox slim combined both gpu and cpu in the same silicon at 45nm. Later a revision of that incorporated the 360 upscaling chip into the main chip at 45nm.

The PS3 went down a similar route although last time I checked hadn't incorporated both chips together. Maybe the playstation super slim model will do that.

The power consumption figure given out indicates the console is going to be at the lower end of expectations I would say either by having a more budget architecture or simply running better hardware at lower speeds. Clearly the feature set of the gpu is going to be more advanced than ps3/360 but we don't yet know how the wii u will compare in raw performance with regard polygons and texturing. The cpu side appears to be the casualty of the wii u design. The cpu of the wii is the same as the cpu of the gamecube in real terms and to offer a triple core version of that at higher speeds like may be 1.6-2.4ghz is not going to be competitive with the ps3 or 360 even if it offers some enhancements.

Madden 13 on wii u does not have the infinity engine physics system.

http://uk.gamespot.c...eatures-6390624

Fifa 13 is missing the improved AI on wii u.

http://www.destructo...es-232507.phtml

Missing particle effects and lighting on Assasins Creed

http://wiiudaily.com...ssing-features/

All these missing features rely on cpu power. Its clear developers are struggling with the wii u with regard cpu power. It has bags of memory, a large 32 megabytes of ultra fast video memory, a feature rich gpu but there is something lacking with regards cpu.

When you take in all the information available it seems like the wii u will struggle with games that are cpu intensive. Best examples of these I think are Bethedsa games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim because so much is happening simultanously in the game world.

cheap port has ZERO to do with wiius horse power there rushed cheap ports why are you basing what a 3rd party does on wiius chip set backward thinking if ever i seen it BLAME EA ETC NOT Wii U


POWERPC 4XX SERIES IS FREAKING TINY AT 45NM THERES NO NEED TO GO SMALLER UNLESS THEY CHALENGED ARMS CPUS IN PHONES POWERPC 4XX ARE AMAZING LITTLE CPUS



IM GETTING GP-GPU IS LIKE INTERGRATED GPUS FROM INTEL VIBS FROM THIS THREAD GP-GPU DOESNT MEAN WEAK WHY WOULD U EVEN THINK THAT ITS LIKE WATCHING PC FANS MELT DOWN IN FORUMS IF IT AINT A HUGE CARD WITH 25 FANS ITS NOT REAL IT MUST BE A GHOST OR SOMETHING

GPGPU DONT MEAN WEAK AND EA's laziness has sod freaking all to do with gpgpu or wiiu

Edited by thehappening, 16 September 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[3Dude]

wiiu cpu 45nm wiiu gpu 45nm that was confirmed like a eon ago powerpc 4xx series is 45nm and the gpu is based on a older 55nm processor thats shrunk updated and had edram added and is now 45nm





cheap port has ZERO to do with wiius horse power there rushed cheap ports why are you basing what a 3rd party does on wiius chip set backward thinking if ever i seen it BLAME EA ETC NOT Wii U


POWERPC 4XX SERIES IS FREAKING TINY AT 45NM THERES NO NEED TO GO SMALLER UNLESS THEY CHALENGED ARMS CPUS IN PHONES POWERPC 4XX ARE AMAZING LITTLE CPUS



IM GETTING GP-GPU IS LIKE INTERGRATED GPUS FROM INTEL VIBS FROM THIS THREAD GP-GPU DOESNT MEAN WEAK WHY WOULD U EVEN THINK THAT ITS LIKE WATCHING PC FANS MELT DOWN IN FORUMS IF IT AINT A HUGE CARD WITH 25 FANS ITS NOT REAL IT MUST BE A GHOST OR SOMETHING

GPGPU DONT MEAN WEAK AND EA's laziness has sod freaking all to do with gpgpu or wiiu

Posted by ibm 21 hours ago.

IBM Watson‏@IBMWatson
@Xbicio @BoostFire The Wii U is a custom 45nm #power7 chip. Same SOI design in #ibmwatson

Enough kid. Enough.

[Hinkik]

I really think the wii u performance is lower than people are expecting. The power consumption peak figure of 75W is very low with an average of 42W. That puts it below 360 and PS3 however I realise it has no hard drive power demands. The graphics on show at nintendo direct were quite clear and looked current gen or much less in places apart from Trine that looked beautiful but was only a 2D scrolling game and not something that would push the hardware.

I don't think the next Xbox or playstation are going to be as impressive as many hoped but we don't know yet as the final hardware is so far away but I'm sure they will comfortably outperform the wii u by a huge margin.

I think price will be a factor for me. I wouldn't pay £250 for the basic console package but would for the premium package. However I'm likely to change my mind as we get closer to launch but at the moment the videos of the games and Nintendo's refusal to release any real technical information about the gpu/cpu has me thinking I'd rather wait and see what happens.

It would be quite easy to create a video of the best ps3 or 360 games that makes the wii u look very dated from what is shown so far. Not for 2D graphics though which look great on wii u but for actual 3D type games.

At this point I'm not even convinced the wii u could deliver ambitious games like Skyrim.

The lower power consumption is because today's processors and architectures are smaller which makes them need less power. It has nothing at all to do with peformance, if that's how you measure peformance I guess the first computers of all time is the fastest ones as well.

Also why we haven't seen any "good graphics games that blow our minds" on it yet is cause they haven't developed optimized game engines that support Wii U's new hardware capabillities, shaders etc... The only thing they have done yet so far on ports and stuff like that is just having higher AA, better textures and stuff like that.

Edited by Hinkik, 17 September 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Socalmuscle]

wiiu cpu 45nm wiiu gpu 45nm that was confirmed like a eon ago powerpc 4xx series is 45nm and the gpu is based on a older 55nm processor thats shrunk updated and had edram added and is now 45nm





cheap port has ZERO to do with wiius horse power there rushed cheap ports why are you basing what a 3rd party does on wiius chip set backward thinking if ever i seen it BLAME EA ETC NOT Wii U


POWERPC 4XX SERIES IS FREAKING TINY AT 45NM THERES NO NEED TO GO SMALLER UNLESS THEY CHALENGED ARMS CPUS IN PHONES (1)POWERPC 4XX ARE AMAZING LITTLE CPUS



IM GETTING GP-GPU (2)IS LIKE INTERGRATED GPUS FROM INTEL VIBS FROM THIS THREAD GP-GPU DOESNT MEAN WEAK WHY WOULD U EVEN THINK THAT ITS LIKE WATCHING PC FANS MELT DOWN IN FORUMS IF IT AINT A HUGE CARD WITH 25 FANS ITS NOT REAL IT MUST BE A GHOST OR SOMETHING

GPGPU DONT MEAN WEAK AND EA's laziness has sod freaking all to do with gpgpu or wiiu

1) ?

2) ??

LOL

[Nintendustin]

This will be going on 60 days from now...

[Socalmuscle]

Even when the wii U is torn apart by ifixit and everyone knows how much it eats, sleeps and poops, there will be some finding 3 "Broadways" taped together somewhere.