59 replies to this topic

[Soul]

MS and Sony's uber beast consoles will destroy gaytendo's new casual kiddy tablet controlled console, come next gen the Wii U will be left in the dust like the Wii

Grandad? Lol funny because I'm watching
"A Date With the Booty Warrior"

Edited by Emblem, 21 November 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[nintendo3DS]

He's an idiot. Enough said!

[Shadiwulf]

Grandad? Lol funny because I'm watching
"A Date With the Booty Warrior"

He's an idiot. Enough said!

I takee it you guys didnt fully quot my post XD

[Noonabites]

Only reason I'm ignoring this is because it's clear gossip. Ehh, I just want the full detailed strip down already... All of this nonsense :[

[esrever]

Whenever I hear this, I keep asking "Why doesn't anyone step forward and explain why this is the case?" They say the Wii U CPU is underpowered, but underpowered compared to what? I'm still waiting on a technical breakdown of the Wii U with an explanation of why they think the way they do. Show us where Nintendo fell short with the CPU in relation to what's needed in developing today's console games so we can have a meaningful discussion.

Also, look at the first thing this guy says “I don't actually know what makes it slow"

At that point, he should shut up. If HE doesn't know then all he is doing is gossiping. Correct?

I will explain some basics. This is rough estimations.

Inside any cpu or digital device is transistors which make all the logic happen, generally the more transistor you can fit into a cpu the more performance it has provided you do it logically. Transistors at any fabrication process are spread out in such that you can only fit so many transistor in an area, this is called transistor density of cpu. The Wii U cpu use a 45nm fabrication process very simular to the way the cpu in the 360 slim is made. The smaller the process the more transistors you can fit into the same area. Current intel cpus are made using a 22nm process. Moore's Law allows has show that performance increases almost linear with the number of transistor you can put in.

The Wii U cpu is 32.76mm^2 as measured by anandtech, the xbox 360 cpu is about 88 mm^2 now using the same process as the Wii U, so transistor density should be about the same. The 360's cpu is 2.7 times the size of the Wii U's, meaning there is probably more than 2x the transistors inside the 360's cpu than the Wii U. This does not mean that the Wii U's cpu is only 50% the performance of the xbox 360 but it gives a good indication that the performance is significantly less. This estimate is probably off by as much as 50% but even then it would put the cpu less powerful than the 360's. So the performance of the Wii U's cpu when doing general processing tasks and doing AI, physics and memory accessing will be slower. I would probably think the Wii U's cpu is only about 80% of the performance as the 360 in gaming. This makes it very hard to port a game without a lot of work, the good thing is the cpu isn't the limiting factor inside the 360 most of the time so it won't show up too much if the developers are porting well.

The GPU inside the Wii U is about 2x as fast as the 360. This will allow Wii U to do games at almost 2x the graphics details. GPGPU can't be easily added to existing game engines. It is very different than coding for just a cpu and gpu, it will take some time to get used to. The 360 also has gpgpu functions. This will not solve all the processing limitations in the long run.

Overall the balance isn't great, Nintindo's console will probably be able to play current gen games but just that. With the next generation of consoles, the Wii U will be like the Wii. I wouldn't be surprised if an Wii U emulator be made by the time the nextbox and ps4 come out for the PC.

These are all my estimates and from my experience as a person with a little cpu design experience. The overall result shouldn't be too far off but can still have a pretty large margine of error as nintendo is keeping all the detail secrete.

[reef7009]

And we do have the first melting wii u . Some idiot microwaved his in the name of art and is selling it on ebay for $3500. I hope he puts the money towards a good psychiatrist. Knob

[Dragon]

This is bad. It has a powerful GPU but a weak CPU.

Not weak, slow. There is a difference.

[dyatir]

Lol this reminds me of the days of the "bit wars" when you could actually sell add-ons to extend the life of the console a bit more... I could see more RAM in a worst case scenario where that's somehow needed, but I don't think a slow cpu can be fixed through an addon lmao. Doing that would likely make Nintendo the next Sega.

Sony will be the next Sega!
Did you see their financial issues?

[bornsupercharged]

I don't care if Sony fails or not, I'm not buying another console from them.

The only reason Sony got into the console business is because they were developing the CD-ROM addon for Nintendo back in the 90's and Nintendo went with Philips instead... one of Sony's main competitors. But since Sony had already been developing the CD-ROM system, and since they were the ones who provided the audio chipset for Nintendo consoles, they figured they had enough experience and know-how to release their own console, the PlayStation.

If Nintendo hadn't screwed Sony over by breaking their contract, perhaps the N64 would have been CD based and Sony would have never entered the console market. For better or for worse though, things didn't pan out that way and now we've got 3 competing systems.

I feel bad for Nintendo to be in such a situation, but they've always been a lot like Apple, trying to make deals that are one-sided and using proprietary formats and trying too hard to stop piracy instead of opening up and letting the community make addons and bring more functionality to the table.

Back on topic..

The Wii U life cycle won't be cut short by its processor, that's just ridiculous hearsay. The only way the Wii U will "die early" is if they do another N64 mistake and they rely on first party games alone, and they let the competition get the best 3rd party games. I know Nintendo can make some great games, but I want to see some GOOD exclusive 3rd party games, as well as multiplatformers as well. That will be Nintendo's main problem this generation, getting developers and studios to release games on the Wii U. If they can convince them that it'll pay off, and if their licensing agreements offer enough % in the pocket of the developers/studios (again, this goes against Nintendo's history), then the Wii U will last the whole generation. There's not a doubt in my mind that it's powerful enough or innovative enough, hearing negativity about the CPU is just news during a slow news period. Regardless of the CPU, every developer could get every game to run just fine on the Wii U - it might take some tweaking but nothing is impossible. Business boils down to profitability, and if studios can't afford to have a team make a game work on the Wii U then they aren't going to do it. There'd be no point in them wasting their time and money, and development resources, into a system that has worse % return than the other systems. In a nutshell, if Nintendo offers better deals than Sony and MS to studios, then studios have more incentive to get their game out for the Wii U because each sale of the Wii U version is more money in their pocket vs. someone buying it for the 360 or PS3 instead.

[Hunter]

All we ever hear is that the wii u is underpowered compared to Sony and Microsoft's "ultra super powered hyper mega gaming machine".
They don't even have new consoles out yet and even when they do, they are building games consoles, not super computers. We have no idea how powerful they will be.

[Tricky Sonic]

All we ever hear is that the wii u is underpowered compared to Sony and Microsoft's "ultra super powered hyper mega gaming machine".
They don't even have new consoles out yet and even when they do, they are building games consoles, not super computers. We have no idea how powerful they will be.

Yeah, I been saying this for a while...I find it interested how comparisons are already being made to the nextbox and orbis systems when no one knows what kind of tech they will pack. However this does worry me a little.....I hope this won't effect the Wii U's lifespan..but now a days people and a lot of developers are so dependent on raw power...I can see this being an issue. The thing is...Nintendo had a vision..which is the Gamepad...and realistically if this system packed 10-20x more power than current gen then we probably would of been looking at a 500-600 dollar system. Just saying.

[BananaCheese]

Has anyone done a complete tear down of the system yet?

Search on youtube: "Wii U Teardown - PC Perspective" for a Wii U teardown. They take it apart around 1:10:00.

[mayhem13]

All these clown developers (and their big mouths) are doing is essentially giving out their early reason why they aren't making games for the Wii U....yet This is a front. The real reason they aren't releasing games for the Wii U is because they are still petrified from the horrible third party sales of the original Wii. They are worried that the Wii U will be the same way. They don't have confidence in Wii U to sell their game. If The Wii U can prove good GAME sales (more important then CONSOLE sales to third party companies). These developers will suddenly and quietly support the Wii U. Because they want money like anyone else. Don't forget PS3 started out with fairly poor console sales. But video games on the system sold well regardless. Whatever amount of people that had the system bought the games first party or third party at good sales. On the flipside, The Wii as a console had tremendous sales, and no one bought any non-Nintendo games third party games. Third Party companies only care about money these days. So even when the PS3 was ailing and the Wii was thriving. They still would rather make a game on a system that could actually sell their game. It's common sense. As far as the Wii U and the slow CPU. Hey...if your a GOOD developer. You can make a good port of a game on anything. If it isn't equal to the 360 or PS3 version, you can at least make it close. You know Mortal Kombat 2 was a game made for the arcades, then ported to many systems of the time included the Nintendo Gameboy. Could a system be anymore different then the arcades, then a Nintendo Gameboy? But they did it anyway....why? Money, gameboy games sold. All Wii U has to do, is sell games. If it does that, third party companies will come around and release their games. If it doesn't, Wii U will be just like the Wii. We'll get good Nintendo first party games and alot of crappy budget kiddie games from the third party. Its so simple, it's hard for people to understand I guess.

You know overall the Wii U's launch lineup isn't much different from the Wii's. Look at who supported the Wii on launch Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Sega. Maybe the quality of games is better. But the same companies that supported the Wii, are still supporting the Wii U. That's great. Nintendo needs to get back the rest now. They need Bethesda, they need Valve, they need 2K, they need Rockstar, etc etc. If we start seeing games from those companies come onto the Wii U. A good sign but if all we are seeing is Ubisoft, Activision, EA, Sega...they were all there during the early days of the Wii. At the end of the day, Nintendo always has the aces up it's sleeve...Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Kirby. Especially Mario and Zelda, those franchises are so big, they can sell consoles on that alone.

As far as the so-called Xbox 720 and PS4. If anyone uses that argument now, when those systems haven't even been officially acknowledged by Microsoft or Sony. That person is clearly a troll or a troublemaker. Obviously partial to Sony/Microsoft or anti-Nintendo. If those systems are more powerful, lets talk about that when they are released or close to release. Seems more sensible.

Edited by mayhem13, 22 November 2012 - 06:38 AM.

[Hinkik]

Ironically, it's the processor that is slow while the gpu is fast.

It's the gpu who does the graphics while the processor does calculations for the gameplay.

This means wii u is more focused on graphics than gameplay when you look at the raw specs?

[Nintendo]

I hate seeing this type of news. Hopefully Dice will still go ahead with BF4 on Wii U?

[Zinix]

Only reason I'm ignoring this is because it's clear gossip. Ehh, I just want the full detailed strip down already... All of this nonsense :[

It isn't gossip when it comes directly from multiple directors' mouths.

[Goose]

Third party support is going to drop heavily within the next five years.

It only needs 5 or 6 years. Nintendo is on a different console lifespan than PS and Xbox. Since they are a games company with nothing to fall back on (like Microsoft or Sony) they cant release highly subsidised super consoles. I think the Wii U will keep up for 5 years, then they will release something else.

My theory (that I'm just pulling out of my ass) is that Nintendo could release a new console in 5 years that will compete with Sony and Microsoft. This console can be sold with no accessories (controllers) for a cheaper price, but use the Wii U's controllers and whatnot. I'm just assuming because that's what I would do if I were them...

[Ixchel]

Sony will be the next Sega!
Did you see their financial issues?

Lol I was making a joke regarding how many add-ons Sega created. 32ex, CD, etc.

[3Dude]

Whenever I hear this, I keep asking "Why doesn't anyone step forward and explain why this is the case?" They say the Wii U CPU is underpowered, but underpowered compared to what? I'm still waiting on a technical breakdown of the Wii U with an explanation of why they think the way they do. Show us where Nintendo fell short with the CPU in relation to what's needed in developing today's console games so we can have a meaningful discussion.
Also, look at the first thing this guy says “I don't actually know what makes it slow"
At that point, he should shut up. If HE doesn't know then all he is doing is gossiping. Correct?

They are saying it BECAUSE the wii u cpu IS clocked slower than the 360/ps3 cpu. Like that even matters unless you are trying to run ps360 code. Short pipelined architecture can run code twice as fast as deep pipelines at half the clock speed. And xenon and cell were piped DEEP, And had some of the crappiest branch prediction ive ever seen.

Well, this guy is just speculating on hearsay. But the hearsay he is speculating on is just based on early looks at v1/2 devkits like the metro dev is talking about, and not the v4 v5 devkits that saw 600% increases in performance according to NAMED DEVS who actually HAVE wii u games being made.

wwise has said their middleware has improved 4-500% with optimizations made on the v5 devkit back in september, and they even released a cpu bench mark. But why should anybody pay attention to official wii u performance benchmarks from an official middleware dev. I mean, you guys sure as hell dont. Rumours from 8 months 4 devkit versions from ago are far more reliable than audiokinetics middleware performance benchmarks, so you guys dont need to see the benchmarks, do you?

[Triple Digit]

When i got my Wii, i knew it was not as powerful as Xbox 360 or PS3. I still got it for games that i cannot play on those other consoles. So i am enjoying my games on Wii U now and could care less about the CPU or GPU.