not getting my hopes up for a Wii U release at all.

Wii U has actually quite a bit of indie games, so it would not be surprising to see this on it eventually

The concept art does look intriguing.. I really hope Nintendo catches wind of this and helps publish, because then all my silly dreams of Rare coming back to Nintendo with the original staff would finally be sorta true!!

Good lord when will this game stop looking so freaking good! The new environment screenshots released to day made me nearly die! It is so beautiful, there could be no missions or plot in this game and I would be content with just browsing the environments!!

I really hope they stick with the directs, nothing quite like grabbing some hot coffee and sitting down in my office chair to watch the E3 direct and feel like I have a front row seat.

There'd be a massive graphics downgrade in order for that to happen.

Considering the team making Zelda U is at least twice the size of probably closer to three times the size of the Monolith team, it really isn't a huge stretch.  Also, I guarantee the monolith studio in Kyoto is helping Ninty with development.  So that even adds more to the dev team. Also, it has been in at least some state of development for 4 years, that is a huge amount of time!  Also, judging by the videos of the two games, X's environment does look more polished, but that may be because it is 7 months closer to release, which is also a massive amount of time!

I do think kyoto is a stretch for the size, but it also does make sense, because the original Zelda was supposed to capture the feeling Myamoto had of exploring the woods and landscape of the region in his childhood, and the full scale of it couldn't be used then because of severe limitations of hardware and knowledge of development at the time.  With all the back to the roots talk of this game it would make sense that this is finally the game that realizes that exploration feel that was intended for the original, but couldn't be realistically done until now.  So I do believe that if it is not the size of Kyoto, it will at least be larger than almost any other game we have seen.

This does come as music to my ears, however I have to control myself, because more often than not these spiritual indie games burn out quickly, or in the rare cases (see what I did there) that they are finished, they often get panned.  I have been following this project however for a little over a year, I think the group's  twitter was originally MingyJongo, managed by the environment director, Steven Hurst, who I had the pleasure of exchanging tweets with shortly before the account went dead.  After the account died, with over 20,000 followers, I assumed the game they were planning died as well.  If this is indeed the same group of people who are making this game, then I do have some faith it will be done, and considering Grant Kirkhope was originally supporting the Mingy Jongo revival project, I have hope that he will compose music for this game as well.  As for the characters, I think the top one is some sort of tropical bird, and the bottom one is either a bipedal Alligator, or a dinosaur of some sort.  I will definitely have to follow this project closely to see whether it lives up to its hype, and if the developers are serious about taking fan consideration, than I may fire them a few emails.

The vast majority of them were. The number of mountains you could actually scale, and werent props blocked off by invisible walls can be counted on your hands.

The games world is HORRIBLY designed, using a much loathed shortcut that should have died with the n64 era called spatial compression. Often called potato land/ potato scape, potato worlds, etc.

"You are Krutor, a wild barbarian from the land of Morkroch. You have travelled a very long journey, across high mountains to the famous imperial city of Lhota, the capitol of the world and largest agglomeration in the known universe, whose fame touches the stars.

The city consists of precisely fifteen buildings (one of which is the imperial palace); the town is inhabited by 30 NPCs, including Emperor Lojza, Archmage Lotrando and all of the members of the guilds of thieves, mages and warriors.

You visit the emperor, who sits alone in the throne hall, and he assigns you with an quest. The land is terrorised by an evil dragon from hell and Lojza is powerless. He has sent an entire imperial army against it, but the monster has killed all five soldiers. Now, he needs a hero like you! You have to find and climb the mystical mountain, Lohen, on which no human has ever set foot, and behead the dragon.

You accept the quest and set out from the town gate. The mystic mountain Lohen is precisely 150 metres from the gate and is about 50 metres high. All of the inhabitants of the city are either not good, blind or crippled if they have not managed to notice it for centuries. After an approximately 30-metre walk to the mountain, you come to ‘no man’s land’ and are attacked by bandits. During another 120m walk to the peak, you also notice an ancient fortress Rumloch, a secret dungeon of doom and a bandit hideout. At the peak of the mountain, you kill a one-hundred-metre dragon by beating its foot with a rusty sword and drinking potions. Then, you rob the corpses of the imperial army (all five) and on the way back to the castle are killed by a wild boar.

Welcome to an average RPG.

This environment compression however negatively affects the graphics. In order to place a castle, cave or bandit camp every ten metres, you have to create a lunar landscape and hide the locations in nonsensical craters or beyond a hills that you must make as high as possible so that it would not be possible to see very far behind them. The result is an environment which is miles away from a real landscape, it is absolutely impossible to orientate within it without a map and in most cases looks bad. I call it a potato landscape, because the terrain surface is reminiscent of a potato’s surface.'

Its a bad, old, used up design trope that needs to die in fire.

This was originally done because games simply couldnt handle the actual scale, it was a shortcut and a compromise pioneered by games like the first 3d zeldas, and the sandbox equivilant by modern elderscrolls (Notably after elderscrolls 2, which was a computer generated landscape, that really WAS that big....) instead of artist designed landscapes). Unfortunately, instead of realizing this was a shortcut and a compromise, it was just aped into oblivion, even long after the power to do more was plentily available.

This is done so that players (Purposefully conditioned) ever dwindling attention spans are given a trinket every 10 feet so the game doesnt feel boring, because todays game designers are simply not capable of designing a world that is just plain interesting to explore, or fixing problems with traversal, they choose to focus on either designing a game that is small with stuff every 10 feet, or one that is big, where you move really fast over vast quantities of nothing, because none of them want to take the time, or are even capable, of doing both. Todays world designers are not capable of transitioning the snes era rpg/adventure game worlds into proper 3d. We are still using all the same shortcuts to fake them. Modern publishers feel that kind of time and money is far better spent on marketing. Which is why all those 'if you can see it you can go there' blurbs are pretty much all lies.

Xenoblades guilds arent mage guilds theives guilds assassins guilds- the standard and run into the ground tropes, who all have the same objectives, kill mofos. They are Cartographers, treasure hunters, philanthropists, resource gatherers, technology creators... And then, only two of the 8 are directly focused on killing things.

Since your only method of interaction with the world is no longer fricking killing everything in it, or talking to the guy who tells you to go around the corner and kill everything in it, it doesnt have to be designed around the ludonarrative dissonance, of your only interaction with the world is killing the crap out of it, so that you are killing a bunch of bandits around a fire place, or a ramshackle village, (Full of people you are obviously going to kill and reload and kill, in a variety of ways) where you are told to go kill.

THis spot is good for a data probe, this spot has a peice of wreckage to salvage, this spot has good resources to send back to the town, this spot has a lifepod full of people to recover, and yes, this spot has herds of dangerous creatures to subjegate, and that spot over there has an extra powerful unique monster.

Since there is so much to do, you dont have to design the game around not showing that everything is literally the same exact thing (mofos to kill, or mofos telling you who to kill), and its all right next to each other... You can move beyond the potato landscape design.

Which means, now 90% of the mountains are no longer off limit barriers with invisible walls there to make sure you dont find out the big bad guy who you are supposed to journey across vast distances to kill, is really just 50 feet behind the hut you accepted the quest from, on the otherside of the mountain. you are just forced to go the long way, all the way around.

No short cuts, no cop outs, no potato design.

Look, I'm not saying Skyrim is the best game ever, and I am certainly not saying Xenoblade looks worse, but I have to disagree with your brutal comments about Skyrim.  I definitely believe that they did use some cheap methods to make the world, and it should have had an extra year of development because the original release was almost unplayable.  But it was a game with about 3 years of solid development, and I believe that part of the reason the game is designed the way it is is because of the modding community, which consists almost entirely of amateurs, and Bethesda literally supplies all of us with beautiful kits to mod the game. After 5-10 mod downloads, the game world can be completely overhauled into literally whatever you want it to be! Also, if you ever listen to Todd Howard (the producer of ES 3-5) he agrees with many of the points you make, such as lazy developers and what not.  While Skyrim is in now way a perfect game, it is also by no means a terrible game, and I think most of the Gaming community would back me up with that.  Compared to today'sAAA carp such as CoD, Assassin's Creed, and all the other movies trying to be games that get released, Skyrim is far superior. It may be a tired rehash of a formula that has been used for 20 years, but it doesn't pretend to be anything else, and it is a formula that works and that I enjoy.

I am extremely excited for Xenoblade X, as I have just finished the first, and I do agree that the world design is fantastic and beautiful.  I will admit I have only a fraction of the technical knowledge that you do, but I like it that way because the less thinking I do then the more pure enjoyment I can get out of these games.

I still can't figure out for the life of me Why Microsoft and sony went with x86..

Looks a lot like sonic gameplay wise.. And the graphics look fresh too! IT looks as though some parts could be annoyingly difficult though.

Someone has a little too much money... How do you make this much money and still have time to play all these games???

After seeing this: **Finds nearest trash can and barfs**  **Ubisoft comes and cleans it up with a shovel** **A new Ubisoft Game is born**

In skyrim mountains were background objects blocked off by invisible walls.

in Xenoblade a mountain is a hollowed out dungeon labyrinth. You know, once you fly all the way to the top and into the hollow peak.

 

Well some of them were, but there was actually a massive amount of mountains that could be climbed and a huge amount of dungeons (cookie cutter yes, but still worth exploring) within the mountains. While skyrim's world space is considerably less than XBX, the game world was ingeniously designed with the layout of mountains to appear much larger than it actually was.  I am in no way degrading the genius of the people at monolith, who I agree can layer a world with amazing skill to add tons of 3 dimensional  space, but I am arguing that Skyrim is also designed quite fantastically when you come to terms that the world is no bigger than its predecessor (even a little smaller) but feels enormous do the the elevation differences added.  Almost any open world game uses mountains or ocean to conceal invisible boundaries, even Xenoblade.  It will be interesting to see how XBX is received in the west, and to see if it lives up to its hype.

This actually looks fantastic.. I may give it a download!

I wonder if there is any more continents or regions.. 

Does it blow anyone else's mind that this is actually happening? We are seeing an almost 30 year old game redone on WiiU. You know, bringing gaming back from the brink? Like 30 years ago? The concept alone is amazing, but this isn't even a concept. 0_0

I know, it is literally a dream come true.  I can't even remember the last time I was so hyped for a game.  It's the combination of the massive world, the back to the roots philosophy, and the vibrant and beautiful art style that will still be beautiful ten years from now just like the original WW.  This is almost everything I want in a Zelda game.  Now I am just praying Nintendo doesn't do something massively stupid, but I really don't think they will.  I am insanely excited for this. 

http://www.scooptend...u-map-analysis/

When we were first shown the map for Zelda Wii U, Aonuma had it fully zoomed in on the GamePad screen. Although the larger map reveals a lot more, this close-up show does hold a few secrets of it’s own.

The map shows two small white icons either side of Link’s position. Taking a closer look at these icons shows that they are in fact building/camp markers. The beacon marker (a red cross) appears further to the right, so these icons are definitely independent.

To the east, the icon depicts two buildings stood side-by-side, one larger than the other. I’d assume that this icon is used to indicate either a large village or town.

The icon on the west shows a white tent with the number 1 displayed by it’s side. This could either represent a small settlement or possibly Link’s campsite. In regards to the number, it may be an indicator for the number of inhabitants, or simply be a way of managing your different camp locations across the map.

 

I think this is a very interesting analysis by scooptendo. Originally I didn't look at other analysis Because I wanted mine to be original, but I'm now finding some very interesting things elsewhere.

That is true. You don't even have to finish the dungeon; you could just get the magic key to not worry about locked doors. It's fitting how the magic key is in the second to last dungeon in the game, but it is most useful if you break the dungeon order, which encourages exploring and experimenting. Players that go directly through the game in order have to worry about having enough keys (not usually an issue because keys aren't limited by dungeon as they are now), but if you decided to look around and try the 8th dungeon first you were rewarded with something incredibly useful. While the dungeons have a listed order, there was nothing restricting the player from going in whatever order they chose, and that's what I miss about Zelda. A Link Between Worlds was great about going through dungeons in any order, but all the major items required for dungeons were in Ravio's shop, so you didn't discover them (I haven't finished it, so if there's something that I'm missing I apologize). In the first game, you found items in dungeons, so you had that sense of discovery. It also happened to avoid the trope of using the item you get in a dungeon up until you go to the next one and get a new item by making the item you get not necessary in that dungeon. The boomerang was useful in the first dungeon, but it wasn't required for the boss. The first game got it right, but then later games somehow follow that trope (which I believe was set by Ocarina of Time. I'm not to sure; I haven't finished Link's Awakening or A Link to the Past). That's why I'm glad that Zelda U is looking towards the original for inspiration.

 

I kind of rambled on a bit, but I don't think I really got to talk about why I think Zelda 1 is the best one in detail. I'm just super excited for this game in the same way you're excited for Xenoblade (and this game, as we seem to have similar reasons for excitement).

This is exactly what I am so excited about. The return to discovery and rewarding being bold.  I think that the reason Nintendo is being so blatant about taking this game and modeling it after the first is that I think they are even missing the sense of discovery, especially Miyamoto. He created the game to model his experience as a child around Kyoto, and I also really don't think it is coincidence that he has been quoted saying that the game size is that of the region of Kyoto, I think that it is very possible that this is a way for the legend to finally realize that sense of Childhood wonder in a game, and share it with the world.  I know Aunuma is the developer behind this, but it seems as though Miyamoto is heavily involved with its creation as well, even more so than previous entries.  I am so insanely excited to explore this entire map, because I know that just like the original there will be secrets and adventures literally hidden around every corner.  

This is either on the Xenoblade Engine or a brand new one, because I don't think that Nintendo has another engine that is made for large open worlds. Wind Waker is the closest thing to one that they have, but I'm pretty sure that it's not that because of the sheer size of Zelda U. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Xenoblade Chronicles is the largest game Nintendo has ever made (soon to be topped by X), and that engine is apparently unbreakable, so it's probably on that.

World design wise, it's definitely like Zelda 1 simply due to the sheer size and freedom you appear to have. That's why I think Zelda 1 is the best Zelda game (even though Wind Waker is my favorite). They give you so much freedom to do whatever you want. Want to do a sword less run? You can do that all the way until the final boss. Want to do the second dungeon last? Go for it. Before you enter the first dungeon, you can get a sword upgrade, shield upgrade, a tunic upgrade from the blue ring, the blue candle, bombs, and 3 extra unit's of health. Most games give you the default sword and shield and maybe a tool.

What I'm trying to say before I went off fanboying is that the world in the original allowed for freedom by hardly sectioning off anything to you. The only things that were mandatory was that you beat all 8 dungeons before entering Death Mountain, and that you eventually need to get a sword and a few items which could be done whenever you want. From what they've told us, what we can see, and what A Link Between Worlds has done with dungeons, we look to be getting that world again, and I'm super excited.

Honestly I see myself exploring and doing whatever i may do before I even enter the first dungeon.. I may try to do them in reverse order if that is possible!

I did some research and according to some figures on the internet, Zelda Wii U will have 5 times the space (square km) of Skyward Sword's world. Xenoblade X will, likewise, have 5x the space of Xenoblade.

It was also estimated on these forums that Xenoblade would have massive amounts of data, close to 50GB. Well it has been revealed the game is 22.7GB, less than 4x the size of Xenoblade. That's not much for the upgrade from 480p. http://nintendoevery...es-x-is-22-7gb/

I'm saying to get hyped and have fun with these games, but try to leave room for some realism as well. These games will be great, but probably far from godlike. The next generation of consoles should have maps at least 2-4x the size.

I guess you have never heard of compressed data.. Something Nintendo has always been a master at.

We had some discussion on the forums a bit ago regarding the engine for Zelda U. 3dude probably could chime in but I think some were in agreement that at the very least, the Zelda dev team probably were getting some suggestions or help from the team at Monolith Soft for X.

 

There are some engine similarities it appears in the scope of the open world, draw distance etc. We were even thinking it may well be the same engine. Hopefully he sees this thread and comments on that aspect. 

 

I believe when Nintendo was toying with Wind Waker, they were more playing with art style rather then engines. Wind Waker was ambitious to create an "open world" but it was more sectioned off in that regard.

Hmm. I could sorta see that.. But at the same time I can't.  I guess the styles are so different it's hard to see them coming from the same engine.  However, the flora do look incredibly similar.. It is possible however that the Zelda U engine incorporates elements from both the WWHD engine and X's engine.  But yeah I guess you are right that it was more art style, but I still wonder how Link will be able to access those islands, because swimming seems unreasonable.  Let's hope 3Dude comes by and can elaborate haha

I really am excited to see some screens or footage of a dungeon in Zelda U. Having the very expansive open world, I wonder if the dungeons are going to be treated in a sandbox style design. Since the dungeon is usually an enclosed space, I'd expect very detailed and intricate design for them. Perhaps something similar to the tech demo of Zelda on the Wii U, but of course with the same artstyle as currently shown for Zelda U.

Personally, I am expecting to see 7 or 8 main dungeons that are incredibly detailed and grand in scope, with probably 15-20  side dungeons that are optional but beneficial that are not close in scope to the main dungeons, but with having a uniqueness to them.  I think it is going to be similar to how WW had several very small dungeonesque places to explore, but I think these in Zelda U will be larger and tied to side quests, and will most likely give Heart pieces as rewards.

One thing to note also is that the engine is most likely a further modified version of the WWHD engine, which was stated to basically be a test of HD and U power before delving into the main game, it was actually Stage 1 of this game's development.  WW was the only game Ninty has ever made that is close to ZU in scope, and I think a lot of what they did with that game can be seen in ZU (Zelda U).  The faster travel on the boat could easily be a test to see if Epona could be used to travel fast while still keeping the needed level of fidelity, and making sure that loading of far landscape was possible. Also, the great cel-shading lighting style is extremely similar with the games. Maybe we can take from this the level of detail in dungeons, which WWHD did put a lot of effort into, more so than the rest of the World.  It will be very interesting to see if maybe a boating mechanic is thrown into the game, as it did seem as though in the first trailer that a ship's mast was seen to the right of the opening shot.  Also, the inclusion of of many shallow waters and islands in the game seems to implicate that there will be a way to get to them, and knowing the size of the world swimming seems a little absurd.  I think it is a great possibility that a sailing method that was already well established in the test run known as WWHD was implemented in this game as well.

This picture summed it up pretty well for me after the info from the game awards.


 

 

Great write up and analysis Banjo. Nintendo did say (Aonuma specifically) about wanting to go back to the roots of Zelda... the original . The world design looks very much like it was inspired if not directly implemented in Zelda U.

Yes I agree, that picture is I think proof of the world being directly influenced by the old Zelda. Hopefully the game is every bit as expansive compared to its day as the original.

As a fellow ex-rare fan I must agree with BK. But I did not like BT as much since their levels were to big. One doesnt need super big worlds to have a fun game and sm3dw and bk are examples of that.

My game would be Maximo or Ghost n Goblins. I really would have a follow up to those.

I agree the first was slightly better.. But I actually did enjoy the large worlds, what I had an issue with is the insane amount of backtracking involved with the game. In BK, every jiggy in a world was available from the start, and that is what I think made it the better game.  World size for me was a plus.. It always has been, I'm just an explorer at heart I guess.

I'm still not sure about this game.. I hate the character design and I really am not sure about the premise, but it is good that so many people are hyped for it.

Though I love Zelda, I don't trust anyone to make a movie or tv show out of it.. I don't think the world or characters are fit for that.