Skyward Sword was the first Zelda game that became tedious to me rather than becoming more engrossing the more I played.  I love the idea of reusing environments but there has to be some sort of effect you've/time has had on the area like in OoT.  Dungeons weren't memorable.  Music wasn't memorable.  There was no satisfaction in finishing off one of those harp melodies correctly. The motion controls weren't terrible... it just wasn't as much fun as it sounds like it should be.  For one thing they were used in places they shouldn't be e.g. turning the keys to fit the doors.  And for another there should be more bosses like Ghirahim which require you to be an excellent swordsman but along the way there should be mini-bosses which teach you a certain technique that will be effective against them.  e.g. I found I hadn't learned anything about effective feinting by the time I got to Ghirahim and had to figure it all out there.  The lack of engrossing sidequests. The ability to fly was something I didn't look forward to at all in game. That shouldn't be possible.  I blame it largely on there being nothing to do while flying, nowhere to go, was there a sidequest to race people other than the Wing ceremony?  Combat would have been difficult to design with the motion control as it was. I could go on, as an overall experience SS wasn't fulfilling like the rest of the Zelda franchise. 

 I wouldn't mind some motion control in the new Zelda, but I do think it would be stupid and not likely that they don't use the gamepad as the main controller in the first Zelda U game.

 Anyways, I feel like most things on this list would be a great move forward if they were done well.

 Maybe my bar is messed up. But the setup instructions were fairly simple. It wasn't the keys by themselves that got to me.  I found motion control start to get tedious like you found the wolf mode in TP.  I play hockey so it's not like my wrists are frail but I'd play the game in short durations because it was definitely taxing on them in a way that's specific to playing the Wii.  That's why I'd prefer for motion control to be more targetted in it's implementation in the game.

 I forgive them for not having a more indepth Epona for OoT because it was their first foray into 3D. I am still hoping for a bigger role in Zelda U.

 Epona making an appearance in OoT/having ability to shoot bow off her ---> implementation in TP ---> full fledged combat as close to or better than M&B.  

 Like this: 

  /drool

There were lots of little sidequests and things you have to fly to get to you missed. In fact it sounds like you didnt really activate any of the side quests. Except perhaps some fetch quests. By far the most in depth and well written in the series, and many with multiple outcomes too.

Though it sounds like you say sidequests but in fact mean minigames. Which i typically cant stand and only do to procure the heart peice/bag/item and never touch again.

Theres no satisfaction in performing any zelda melody correctly, just an irritating cutscene that gets more teeth gratingly frusterating every time you have to watch it just to open a door, or change water level, or change direction in a boat. The fact ss only had you do it once per song for a specific important event instead of using it every 30 seconds with a game halting cutscene was a blessing.

Skyward sword, does in fact teach you feints before G-money. Its just blessedly subtle and one of the few things left in the series nintendo isnt having some infuriating character explain to you as if you were a drooling moron.

All sword wielding enemies respond to where you hold the sword, guarding against that direction. Feinting one way than attacking another way is the easiest way to take down bobokins without spamming special moves or risking shield damage. Stalfos miniboss not only responds to where you hold the sword but punishes you for attacking a guarded area. And finally, G-money just doesnt take the spammy garbage you could get away with on lesser foes.

The music in the dungeons was brilliant. Each area in the dungeon was a specific musical instrument playing a specific part, providing more of an ambient soundtrack. Only upon making it to the deepest part of the dungeons were all parts played revealing the melody. A theme used again with the heros song.

The boss keys were brilliant and easily manipulatable unless you were one of those people who felt the need to contort their arm into arm breakingly impossible positions instead of just letting go and grabbing the key again.

The dungeons were the best in the series since windwaker.

The skyview giant emblem set peice that waw a beetle playground.

The Earth Temples lava rolling and Raiders re enactment

The entirety of the time mines localized time displacement mechanics was awesome.

The ancient cistern is the best zelda dungeon ever. The entire dungeon is a giant mechanical prop reenacting of the going to hell and climbing out on a silk string fable, complete with brilliant visual design.

Time changing to alter the entire Sandship.

Taking a literal leap of faith in the sanctuary

And rearranging your own dungeon for the time keep.

Every single one is more memorable than the same old tired elemental dungeons with the same old tired puzzles that have been repeated since lttp and oot.

 Lots of little sidequests and things I had to fly to get to? Were any of them flying through anything different than the empty space you go through to get to the portals down to the mainland? 

 What's your favourite sidequest that had depth as an example?  I do enjoy minigames. I feel like Zelda sidequests should have some sort of puzzle element/minigame element to it to offer any sort of challenge otherwise it's just a fetch quest. I am reading one of the side quests and it seems to be more about sleeping than anything else.  Zelda doesn't lend itself to complicated dialogue trees where you can have quests based on nothing but dialogue choices and still feel satisfied.

 http://ca.ign.com/wi...tem_Check_Crush

 In OoT even when you perform the notes correctly they are stilted but the moment you complete it the music becomes alive and I can still remember some of those songs to this day.  There's a cutscene the first time you play it in SS too but most of the music isn't as enchanting.  The only music that really stands out to me is G's again, it totally suits a duel between two warriors and it gets more intense each time.  I could find a lot more than that from previous games though.

 Looking through some of the SS youtube videos on different themes there does seem to be some pretty great music but it seems to be in areas you don't spend much time in.

 There was too big a discrepancy I thought between the typical mobs and G.  The fights with the skeletons should have prepared you but didn't I felt.  Should have scaled it up a bit just in terms of their ability to predict your strike.

 There was nothing fun about manipulating the boss key with motion control and the only difficulty above and beyond being able to picture the object and the way it was supposed to fit inside the slot was when your Wiimote would spaz out on you.  Fun should be held at the forefront of every decision a developer makes.  The idea of motion control for swordfighting = cool.  The idea of twisting a block to fit a keyhole with motion control = who the hell cares.

 They really didn't leave an elemental design standpoint for the dungeons life, water, fire, time etc. Maybe they should have more. Maybe the dungeons weren't memorable because I felt like I had been there before and I wanted something new. I liked how old items were useful/required later on and not only used in the area you found it.  I liked some elements like the rolling rock in lava.  But for the most part I guess I just expected more at this point in the Zelda franchise.  My expectations might be too high.

 Yeah. I play with lights on my bedroom at times and other times I play during the day. Until those things have zero effect on the Wiimote it's not flawless. You seem to be a fan of very strict gaming sessions. Congratulations. It's annoying to play SS if you wanna lay down on a couch/lying in bed because the angles at which you perform motions are awkward.  It doesn't even have to be that extreme, I game in my bedroom and I tend to sit on my computer chair which spins a bit and again that leads to you performing actions occasionally at odd angles which you have to reset.  I don't think that the game is difficult, that's not my problem with motion controls, it's that at a certain point the fun factor wears off and you look forward to fights with motion control but everything else becomes a chore rather than fun. By reset I don't mean recalibration I mean you have to sit like this douche for everything that you do.  It's fun for combat (I include bug catching in combat, actions Link directly takes), not for everything else (manipulating objects, controlling the beetle, flying the birds etc.)

 Yeah... so there's nothing to do with the birds. I wish they were more integral to the game or at the very least wish there was a racing minigame.

 That's fetch quests (which should be limited) and minigames (which are great).

 I'm not directly comparing SS to TP alone.  I don't hope that Zelda U is a direct sequel to TP.  There are a lot of things SS did well, but it also took a step back in some regards.

 Whether or not motion control was a success in SS I would bet against it being included in Zelda U strictly because they have mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game.

By your definition the entirety of tp was a fetch quest. Well, actually by anybodies definition the entirety of tp was a horrible fetch quest.

So were every single one of oot's sidequests. Whats with the double standard?

I typically play laying down at all manner of odd angles with one hand in my lap and the other dangling somewhere. The whole 'stiff arm waving' myth is from people who never figured out the way the controls worked. Probably because there are only a handful of games (2 real ones) That actually used motion controls.

Your argument about the bird is another double standard other games somehow dont have to meet.

Beetle/bird control frusterations are 100% garuanteed caused by sensor bar dot problems. I use the beetle all the time, because its several times faster than picking something up myself, or to quickly catch a item that an enemy popped over a cliff or lava. Those controls are also very precise when working properly.

Uh, no, they havent mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game. They HAVE mentioned they want it to be motion controls again.

More specifically, Aunoma called going back to buttons going backwards.

"I honestly think we cannot go back to button controls now," Aonuma said during an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine, "so I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."

This was, AFTER the e3 with the zelda hd tech demo btw.

 I don't feel like it's a double standard as much as a higher standard.

 Ok. You utilize motion controls perfectly.  Everyone else are baddies that can't figure out how to flick their wrists.  But, it's a large enough contingent of rainbowty players that it's worth listening to.

 In previous games with mounts they're heavily utilized.  You spend a lot of time on them and can typically perform some actions as far as attacking.  I feel like that was probably excluded from SS because they felt as it was currently designed it would probably be a hassle for a lot of players rather than being fun.  That's just a hunch though, nothing to back it up with.

 I ca't find it but the quote I remember was from Iwata I think saying that that Zelda U would take full advantage of the gamepad and it would be a game to show off all the potential of the gamepad. They didn't say flagship that's all me. All I can find is stuff like this:

 http://www.wired.com...-zelda-wii-u/2/

http://ca.ign.com/ar...lks-zelda-wii-u

http://www.officialn...da-wii-u-ideas/

 I don't see how they wouldn't offer off-screen play and to do that you would need to bypass motion controls as they were in SS pretty much entirely if you were gaming strictly on the gamepad.

 The addition of motion control wasn't my biggest issue with SS anyways. I was excited about it and liked the combat implementation like I've said. I mostly felt that SS wasn't what I expected from the franchise in 2011 when they had worked on the game for 5 years. There was only a couple years between OOT, MM and WW and I think with TP I was just so glad to get back to an adult Link and some features like improved mounted combat felt like the right direction.  Some of the wolf segments were definitely tedious, but being able to be a wolf is kind of badass at the end of the day.  I seem to be coming off as a major hater of SS so I'll stress again I don't think it's a bad game.  I've only played through it once. Eventually I'll replay it and note what exactly turned me on/off about it.

 Edit:

 It's probably this rumour is something I read too much into when I first got the Wii U as it seems to hit every point I felt like I remembered as far as Zelda U:

 http://wiiudaily.com...me-coming-2014/

 Skyrim sucked overall as a game.  It's riveting for the first 10 - 15 hours..... and then you realize you're doing the same things over and over again.  So Aonuma's comments on capturing that feeling of Skyrim (hopefully the initial feeling, heh) is very promising.

Yeah, but double standard makes it seem like I have an agenda.

 I have no problem in raising the skill cap.  I just would prefer if they spent their time adding additional encounters where you may even need to perform even more intricate actions rather than making everything e.g. key twisting motion controlled and saying 'hey, look it was worth it.'

 Epona > Bird.  Mount and Blade 2 is the game I'm looking forward to more than any other probably because mounted combat is horsing amazing.  I wish they'd made the target practice earlier/thrown it in your face that it was available.

 Didn't know the gamepad had a sensor bar, that settles that, though I'd never play with the Wiimote/Nunchuk unless it was on my TV.

 I just didn't find TP tedious. I think I even thought it was too short. Heh. But it's been awhile  I guess I should replay that too and see how it fares after all these years. I could see some of my issues with SS being that I considered it something I wanted to get out of the way before I got into the Wii U library of games.  I should jump back in with a more chill explorative mood.

 I can agree with that. I'm starved for some actual Zelda U news and I'm hoping it's things I want to hear.

 There absolutely is a point in having a horse. If you play M&B it illustrates why mounted soldiers were so valuable throughout history better than any textbook can. Even scoring a hit on a mounted soldiers is a challenge on foot and if you are going at speed you can kill by simply riding down an opponent.

That's a glorious mess because every fight in M&B has a lot of random variables. Each encounter in Zelda would be carefully designed. I want that sort of scope, with that sort of control available to you over your horse and all of your weapons (the controls of M&B are fantastic).  The level design/main enemy should be more along the video you posted.  I am thinking a hybrid of the two.  Cutting your way through an invading army, finding some sort of main monster Nazgul Rider/Dragon Rider/baddie riding a badder beast which you might need to shoot out of the sky.  And then fighting it on the battlefield with a war raging around you.

 Zelda doesn't need to/shouldn't reinvent the formula it's based on.  But it should be the most epic incarnation of it possible.

Yup! Better controls than on normie-consoles.

 Well that's promising.  Controls are pretty much tied for number one as far as things that are important to me in a game.  I will only last about 30 seconds before I quit if they are awkward.

Be careful then. AC3 was my first game in the series and I didn't like it.

 I'm afraid of that too.  It won't be a first day purchase for me.  Definitely gonna wait on some player reviews.

 (But really the only way I won't buy it is if it has game breaking bugs/a lot less content than other versions/or is absolutely panned since my body is ready to experience AC.)

I'm surprised you guys didn't like ac3. I thought it was stunning.

 I haven't played anything in the AC series.  AC4 would be my first.

 Curious if you played AC3 on the Wii U.

Assassin's Creed:Revelations was my first game in the series(and first game on PS3) but it came with the original Assassin's Creed. The original game was boring but Revelations was cool. Anyway yeah don't buy it day one, save moneys. I bought revelations for full price and...there was no noticeable downside to it but I still probably should have waited.

 Haha I knew first day sounded awkward. Day one. Day one. 

 I'm definitely going to wait on AC but I am giving Wii U games major benefit of the doubt.  I caved and bought Lego City Undercover.  The writing is good. But haven't really jumped in to give it judgement yet.  I can't wait to increase my Wii U library lol.  I really want to have a glorious DVD rack full of AAA (triple A in fun for me to play) Wii U games.

 Looking forward to this. Never owned an Assassin's Creed.

 I'm in the same boat.  Hope we get a chance to game together soon.

 Haha I know that feel.  Every time I'm at Superstore or Best Buy I have to force myself not to pick up ZombiU and Lego City because I know they'll just sit there being unplayed.  I already have a backlog of games but that doesn't stop me from wanting them in my collection so badly.   What's better than bringing home a new Wii U game? Bringing home two Wii U games.  If you have enough points definitely do it.

I really want to get this one since the last SMB game I played on a home console was on the NES times... But I've heard this is basically the same as the DS version (which I own and love) and the Wii version (don't own but I've played it as well). I could get it for around $40/$45... Do you think it's worth the price? I doubt it'll ever go down to budget price, since I still see the Wii version priced as much as $50.

 It's worth $40.  Do you like Luigi at all? You could also wait for the retail version of New Super Luigi U that's only $30.  You seem to be playing a few games at the moment though. If I were you I would play what you're playing now, wait for Pikmin to come out, decide if you're going to get that (I bet you will) and then use NSMBU/NSLU as a bridge when there's a gap in games you don't like.

 For having such a convoluted name New Super Mario Bros. U is a very streamlined game. It is a return to the classic side scrolling action we all know and love and there are elements in the game from the many iterations of Mario over the years.  If you’ve been away from the series for a while it will absolutely be a nostalgic experience from level design, to enemies to musical scores and more. The 3D overworld, parts of which are dynamic, is a pretty straightforward evolution and if I had my way it would have been fleshed out more so.  The gameplay is exactly what you remember; complete several stages in a themed zone before battling one of Bowser’s lieutenants along your way to defeat Bowser himself.  Now, however, there are multiple ways to reach the final goal, e.g. you can travel through the water zone instead of the ice zone, including secret paths (which I won’t spoil for you.)  The plot has not changed. The big mean yellow and green baddie has invaded in an airship and taken over Princess Peach’s castle.  It’s new but it’s classic and the name of the game is saving the Mushroom Kingdom from Bowser like its predecessors.

 The pace of the game was just about right.  The difficulty of the typical stages was not very high if you had nothing in mind but hitting the flag at the end of the map, but it amped up if your goals included getting the three stars every level contains, collecting every single coin you could find or just looking in every nook and cranny for hidden treasure/secrets. The thing that really stuck out for me negatively was the similarity and ease of all the boss battles. I think the series should have progressed to the point that fights with Bowser’s lieutenants were heavily influenced by the zone they were in as far as defining their look as well as the stage design and the means necessary to defeat them.  It wasn’t until the final Bowser showdown that I felt any of that was addressed to a significant degree.

Surprisingly, one of the most fun aspects of the game for me was the challenge mode.  When I first saw it I scoffed at the idea of it actually being enjoyable and looked at it as more of a time sink.  Then the completionist in me forced me to give it a chance and it quickly became more addictive than the main game even.  It brought to mind a quote from Miyamoto about how he felt the challenge mode gave you a new perspective on the main game.  I found this to be evident very quickly when I returned to the main game to look for the large star coins.  After having the experience of the challenge mode it became very intuitive as to how I was supposed to reach formerly difficult to reach areas/coins.

Also, the challenge mode was full of suits and different forms of Mario! Something I felt was lacking in the main game.  I thought it would have been a beautiful thing if each zone had a suit that was effective within it as well as one that was ineffective in it. Or, if they weren’t going to include a large number of suits at least make it so the suits they did include had more opportunity to interact with the world. Fireballs should have inanimate objects to light on fire, reintroduce the tail swipe in squirrel form, enemies placed so iceballs could freeze them and turn them into additional platforms etc.  I didn’t like that I had to wait until Superstar Road to experience the penguin suit when there was an entire water world that could have had a level or two designed to require it’s usage if you wanted to investigate all of its secrets.  I will say the inclusion of Yoshis offset the lack of suits in the main game a little.

The graphics of the game are quite beautiful.  The only time I had any issue is when I inspected the screen very closely in some areas in the overworld when I was playing on my TV.  The look when you’re running around a stage itself is crisp and vibrant and it makes you look forward to the first fully 3D HD Mario adventure.  The sound is definitely Mario music, but it’s nothing that grabs your attention, it’s not music that will be stuck in your head 20 years from now like the original Mario games can boast.  The musical pieces are more like bland covers of a legendary rock band.

The integration of additional gamepad features was non-existent for me.  I didn’t really touch on the multiplayer.  But, I felt that for a game like this the ability of off screen play was perfect and more than enough.  This is exactly the kind of game you can play rolled up in bed or lying off the side of your couch when you have a bit of time on your hands.  

 New Super Mario Bros. U is an entertaining game worth the purchase price. I think it should be part of any Wii U owner’s collection of games. You’ll be the one to determine how and how much fun you extract from the game, there’s a lot of content for you to plunge into but you won’t get to see it all in a single play through where you rush to kill Bowser and see the credits.

New Super Mario Bros. U is a solid piece of software that I am glad I purchased and will be playing quite a bit until I finish all the challenges and unlock all the secrets. It’s a polished game where controls are responsive, bugs are non-existent and you can immerse yourself in the world.  On the other hand it’s not a game I expect to be the highlight of my Wii U library once the system matures. Bear with me, I know typically in rating publications a 7 is a major bust but I need somewhere to go when a game really knocks me off my feet. 

RATING: 7/10 

It is really fun to replay it using Luigi physics. It is either dumb luck that you pass through a course the first time, or, the Luigi 'on ice' mechanics make some of those courses almost impossible on you first try. 

 

My only criticism is that I wish they gave all four characters a revamp. Nabbit is cool and all, but when you play with your kids, one of them has to be the Toad, which is essentially the same Toad that they were before (I could be the Toad I guess, but I bought the damn thing, LOL). 

 Hah. Best post ever.

 Hey bud.  I'm new here too, it's a fairly nice haunt so far if I may say so.

 Welcome! Depending on just how much you're itching to play I'd wait until August for Pikmin if you've got some spare cash and free time or until December to see whether there truly is a price drop or not.

 If he's not putting any of the money down.  Wii him.  Do it on your own with your own concept.  Unless you're absolutely convinced his idea is a million dollar idea.

 You're very good.  I always get a bit jelly of people who are good at graphic design/editting while I sit there Microsoft Painting my way through life.

 What is up with the OOT hate?  I think OOT is better than SS by orders of magnitude. I would have thought that opinion was universal before this thread. Can anyone oblige me and tell me what the basis for their rankings are?

 I know analogies suck but imagine the Wii U as a bicycle that has to travel 100 kilometers versus previous consoles as unicycles that have to travel 10 kilometers.

 There's more work to be done but it's less difficult to get through it all for whatever reasons (I don't know if Miyamoto specified exactly why it's easier.)

 Ugh. Please be something that's badass to a Nintendo degree.