51 replies to this topic

[BanjoKazooie]

Microsoft was going to attack any site hosting that document. It was legitimate. And please explain to me how you think the Nextbox will be more powerful. I need some reason why.

Even if it was real it makes no sense at all, that would mean their console would cost
Less than 150 dollars to make or they are going for an extreme loss. Unless the console is ouya I think their going for an extreme loss per console at a 299 mark. But I guess if the document is true it would have to be less powerful than wii u so you would be right.

[Dragon]

yea, it seems the look of sony is whats keeping everyone away from them, they can pull out more power for the price, but always end up failing because they seem to lack the ability to innovate and collect all types of crowds

they probably will be 2nd best even with better hardware for a long time

microsoft is most likely going to add in more online stuff, you heard the preview with winblows8 (housing directx11.slowerthenopengl) about the xbox store, so alongside adding in moderate power gain (perhaps the same as the wiiu) they will try to make the enviroment as simple as possible

nintendo will be the innovators (like always), expect a more casual enviroment, but they seem to be trying to broaden this time around, expect best support and innovation, with a moderate power gain

and just for kicks
lets talk about ooya
indie andriod kit that will have a few fun games, a few games from the past, will be affordable, but will not house the big ones next generation

sooooo
heres my thoughts


PS4
.
.
Xbox720 (or durango, or 8, or something)
.
.
Wii U
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
7th Generation
.
ooya (slightly below xbox360's power)

Please give me an explanation of your reason why you think the 720 will be more powerful than the Wii U. I'm open to more explanations!

[BanjoKazooie]

i cannot forgive nintendo for backing off they should have slaughtered sony , they were one step away from it and seemed to back off as if to say there a Japanese company we cannot do it they had sony by the ball sack they should have cut them off ,i detest sony

i could ram dualshocks down sony zombies throats all day till theres non left,ps2 was the biggest insult to me ever from sony that machine was souless its load times were unforgivable its dualshock was even more WTF than the first one it would break down if you sneezed in the same room it was soooo ugly it looked deformed it had only 2 controller ports unforgivable shall i go on

oh it had n64 graphics and 4 bit colour for the lords sake 4 bit colour WTF and for some insane inept reason sony fanboys thought playing dvd movies was Dzhit what ever

Dude, chill out. Sony is a great company and I personally love the dualshocks. Also the ps2 wasn't that bad, it was still fun to play on although I preferred my GameCube, I probably spent equal time on Sony ps2. Also Sony ps3 was better than wii in my opinion.
Nintendo disappointed me with Wii. I think I played three games on it compared to 30-40 on PS3. I do think wii u will beat Sony down though. However I will still likely get PS4 just because I like Sony second best to Nintendo and not buying their console wouldn't feel right.

[djlewe78]

After the wii u, 720, and ps4 consoles will be all online and insted of sexy consoles we will have tiny branded blocks next to our smart tvs and wireless controlers. Our internet speeds in 5/6 years will make this an obvious choice for nintendo,sony,microsoft. It means they wont lose so much money on console launches as it wud be cheaper and easier to manage.

[FreakAlchemist]

i cannot forgive nintendo for backing off they should have slaughtered sony , they were one step away from it and seemed to back off as if to say there a Japanese company we cannot do it they had sony by the ball sack they should have cut them off ,i detest sony

i could ram dualshocks down sony zombies throats all day till theres non left,ps2 was the biggest insult to me ever from sony that machine was souless its load times were unforgivable its dualshock was even more WTF than the first one it would break down if you sneezed in the same room it was soooo ugly it looked deformed it had only 2 controller ports unforgivable shall i go on

oh it had n64 graphics and 4 bit colour for the lords sake 4 bit colour WTF and for some insane inept reason sony fanboys thought playing dvd movies was Dzhit what ever

ha ha ha ha ha priceless.

[3Dude]

Please give me an explanation of your reason why you think the 720 will be more powerful than the Wii U. I'm open to more explanations!

That seems about right. Though id move all 3 closer to the seventh generation.

I had a nice explanation all written out, but opera mobile crapped its brains out and lost it all.

The main point was we have confirmation from confirmed devkit leaks that show ms and sony are shooting for consoles a few more times powerful than the wii u, in peak theoretical performance....

Of course, real world performance never reaches peak performance. The ps3 and 360 are notorious for not coming remotely close.

And also worth remembering is that being a few times more powerful doesn't equate to games that look a few times better looking. In fact, it doesnt really mean a whole lot at all until you get to all around performance being 20-30x superior.

2-3x is insignificant.

[Dragon]

That seems about right. Though id move all 3 closer to the seventh generation.

I had a nice explanation all written out, but opera mobile crapped its brains out and lost it all.

The main point was we have confirmation from confirmed devkit leaks that show ms and sony are shooting for consoles a few more times powerful than the wii u, in peak theoretical performance....

Of course, real world performance never reaches peak performance. The ps3 and 360 are notorious for not coming remotely close.

And also worth remembering is that being a few times more powerful doesn't equate to games that look a few times better looking. In fact, it doesnt really mean a whole lot at all until you get to all around performance being 20-30x superior.

2-3x is insignificant.

What backs up this information? I've heard so many different things about those dev kits, that I don't believe any of it. The leaked legitimate document shows more proof than anything I've seen.

[3Dude]

What backs up this information? I've heard so many different things about those dev kits, that I don't believe any of it. The leaked legitimate document shows more proof than anything I've seen.

Remember that rumoured durango devkit on ebay going for 20g's?

Turned out it was legit. Cross confirmed by multiple devs who actually had hands on the real deal.

Its only going to get more powerful as placeholder parts are geared up for retail parts... But nothing huge.

You have to have some knowledge to recognize whats bunk. Internet kiddies have gotten good enough at mimmicking tech talk that it sounds plausible in 'english'... While being ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge base.

For example anyone who says power pc is full of feces. These are people who just use buzzwords and parroting. Unfortinately for them, they never kept up with actual current events in the processor world.

Power pc is dead. At least so far as it being a major player in high end gaming systems (this includes pc's.) around the time the 7th generation kicked off.

That power pc is LITERALLY icore now. IBM lost a MAJOR contract with apple, to intel, and now all the players who made power mac power pc with ibm, makes icore with intel.

Power pc moved on, but in a different direction, its being shrunk down for soc's to head to the mobile market, and kept going to current customers in current low end super computer form in the blue gene.

The original durango 'leak' reported was a copy paste of the blue gene wiki page. Ignorant journalists bought it hook line and sinker.

[The Lonely Koopa]

Remember that rumoured durango devkit on ebay going for 20g's?

Turned out it was legit. Cross confirmed by multiple devs who actually had hands on the real deal.

Its only going to get more powerful as placeholder parts are geared up for retail parts... But nothing huge.

You have to have some knowledge to recognize whats bunk. Internet kiddies have gotten good enough at mimmicking tech talk that it sounds plausible in 'english'... While being ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge base.

For example anyone who says power pc is full of feces. These are people who just use buzzwords and parroting. Unfortinately for them, they never kept up with actual current events in the processor world.

Power pc is dead. At least so far as it being a major player in high end gaming systems (this includes pc's.) around the time the 7th generation kicked off.

That power pc is LITERALLY icore now. IBM lost a MAJOR contract with apple, to intel, and now all the players who made power mac power pc with ibm, makes icore with intel.

Power pc moved on, but in a different direction, its being shrunk down for soc's to head to the mobile market, and kept going to current customers in current low end super computer form in the blue gene.

The original durango 'leak' reported was a copy paste of the blue gene wiki page. Ignorant journalists bought it hook line and sinker.

Wait it turned out to be real !! wow did in get taken down or did somebody actually bought it since I didn't followed what happen after the first day it was posted on Neogaf.

[3Dude]

Wait it turned out to be real !! wow did in get taken down or did somebody actually bought it since I didn't followed what happen after the first day it was posted on Neogaf.

Somebody actually bought the stupid thing for 20 g's.

I don't care if it turned out to be real, that was money poorly spent. For a fraction of that you could buy a pc more powerful than ps4 720 and wii u put together.

I don't know how superdae got his hands on the damn thing. If he was on the industry inside, he surely lost his job. If he took advantadge of a friend, they surely got canned.

Either way, superdae doesnt care. Coming out 20,000 bucks on top of things, hes definately the undisputed winner of these strange events.

[Dragon]

Remember that rumoured durango devkit on ebay going for 20g's?

Turned out it was legit. Cross confirmed by multiple devs who actually had hands on the real deal.

Its only going to get more powerful as placeholder parts are geared up for retail parts... But nothing huge.

It only went for that much because it's a dev kit, and it's a fresh console. Plus, it wasn't Microsoft selling it. Just that DaE guy.

Edited by DR4G0NB0RN, 22 August 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[3Dude]

It only went for that much because it's a dev kit, and it's a fresh console. Plus, it wasn't Microsoft selling it. Just that DaE guy.

Yes.... I said it was superdae in the very post you quoted, and never came remotely close to saying, or implying ms was the one selling it.

[Dragon]

Yes.... I said it was superdae in the very post you quoted, and never came remotely close to saying, or implying ms was the one selling it.

Uh huh... I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why the 720 will be more powerful.

[FreakAlchemist]

Uh huh... I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why the 720 will be more powerful.

You and me both.It's like they're dodging the question.

[BanjoKazooie]

You and me both.It's like they're dodging the question.

It has newer technology, they would Lose their entire fan base if they pulled a wii, and not get a new one.if it was weaker it wouldn't play the next gen games nearly as well as it should. And
If it was weaker it wouldn't be different from a 360!! They need a good jump to actually sell a new system, or come up with an innovative idea. It will be slightly stronger than wii u.

[Soul]

i cannot forgive nintendo for backing off they should have slaughtered sony , they were one step away from it and seemed to back off as if to say there a Japanese company we cannot do it they had sony by the ball sack they should have cut them off ,i detest sony

i could ram dualshocks down sony zombies throats all day till theres non left,ps2 was the biggest insult to me ever from sony that machine was souless its load times were unforgivable its dualshock was even more WTF than the first one it would break down if you sneezed in the same room it was soooo ugly it looked deformed it had only 2 controller ports unforgivable shall i go on

oh it had n64 graphics and 4 bit colour for the lords sake 4 bit colour WTF and for some insane inept reason sony fanboys thought playing dvd movies was Dzhit what ever

Well, it had the most support. And if you were mad because the PS2 had N64 graphics, you were probably mad because the Wii had Gamecube graphics. You can't make excuses saying graphics don't matter because you ranted
on them.

The PS2 had a great library of games which is why it got sales. And you are really going to whine because it has two controller ports? The only thing I agree on is the Dualshock the analogs were cheap but other than that it is a decent controller, it is better than the first Xbox one.

[3Dude]

Uh huh... I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why the 720 will be more powerful.

Because the devkit is more powerful.

The power 7 is ABSOLUTELY fantastic. It is.

But its been reduced from 8 to 4 cores, and underclocked a GHz to around 3GHz. (power 7 performance is linearly scalable by clock speed, so we are looking at something 3/4 the power of a 4Ghz power 7.) Also very good.

Durango devkits have been confirmed to have a full 8core cpu. They are simply shooting higher. Another 4 cores to make up for isn't something to scoff at.


Wiiu has devkits with 2.5-3 GB ram.

That means wii u will have around 1-2GB RAM in retail. That is fantastic.

Durango has been confirmed to have 6-8 GB ram for its dev system. Which leaves us around 4-6 GB at retail.

The gpu seems fairly comparable.

They are just aiming a little higher.

Though it is worth noting ms plans to put a version of windows 8 on the box, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a core devoted to kinect, and a core dedicated to windows 8 & multitasking, and about 2GB reserved for the os and multitasking media.

They are just aiming at a performance area a little higher.

Of course, thats not saying they ate going to REACH it. No system EVEER reaches its peak performance.

I am reasonably certain the cube is the closest.

Systems constantly bleed performance, keeping them from reaching the 'paper specs'.

Is the processor vin order? yes? real world performance loss.

Is the processor cache enough to generally stave off resorting to main memory? Every time its not, real world performance loss.

How is the branch prediction? How bad is the penalty for a miss? HUGE realworld performance loss possibilities.

I know enough for what the general area they are shooting for seems to be with yhe info available... And its a little higher than the wii u.

I DONT have enough information to know how close the real world sustainable performance is going to be to what they are shooting for.

I do know, that the difference is going to be negligable this time. Its not going to be remotely close to a wii situation.

[Dragon]

Wiiu has devkits with 2.5-3 GB ram.

That means wii u will have around 1-2GB RAM in retail. That is fantastic.

Durango has been confirmed to have 6-8 GB ram for its dev system. Which leaves us around 4-6 GB at retail.

Those 3GB RAM Dev Kits are older ones. Most likely Dev kit V3 or V4. V5 probably has 4GBs of RAM.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

It has newer technology, they would Lose their entire fan base if they pulled a wii, and not get a new one.if it was weaker it wouldn't play the next gen games nearly as well as it should. And
If it was weaker it wouldn't be different from a 360!! They need a good jump to actually sell a new system, or come up with an innovative idea. It will be slightly stronger than wii u.

the thing is, the wii u is using mainly using 2010-2011 tech you cant beat that honestly. you think microsoft is stupid enough to release another 360 when its not even going to be first to the market? lol i dont think so. microsoft doesnt want to lose money again unless they are crazy lol.

Because the devkit is more powerful.

The power 7 is ABSOLUTELY fantastic. It is.

But its been reduced from 8 to 4 cores, and underclocked a GHz to around 3GHz. (power 7 performance is linearly scalable by clock speed, so we are looking at something 3/4 the power of a 4Ghz power 7.) Also very good.

Durango devkits have been confirmed to have a full 8core cpu. They are simply shooting higher. Another 4 cores to make up for isn't something to scoff at.


Wiiu has devkits with 2.5-3 GB ram.

That means wii u will have around 1-2GB RAM in retail. That is fantastic.

Durango has been confirmed to have 6-8 GB ram for its dev system. Which leaves us around 4-6 GB at retail.

The gpu seems fairly comparable.

They are just aiming a little higher.

Though it is worth noting ms plans to put a version of windows 8 on the box, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a core devoted to kinect, and a core dedicated to windows 8 & multitasking, and about 2GB reserved for the os and multitasking media.

They are just aiming at a performance area a little higher.

Of course, thats not saying they ate going to REACH it. No system EVEER reaches its peak performance.

I am reasonably certain the cube is the closest.

Systems constantly bleed performance, keeping them from reaching the 'paper specs'.

Is the processor vin order? yes? real world performance loss.

Is the processor cache enough to generally stave off resorting to main memory? Every time its not, real world performance loss.

How is the branch prediction? How bad is the penalty for a miss? HUGE realworld performance loss possibilities.

I know enough for what the general area they are shooting for seems to be with yhe info available... And its a little higher than the wii u.

I DONT have enough information to know how close the real world sustainable performance is going to be to what they are shooting for.

I do know, that the difference is going to be negligable this time. Its not going to be remotely close to a wii situation.

how the heck are they going to keep the xbox affordable if it has an eight core cpu, comes with a kinect v2 , and especially during this economy they will have problems if its another 360. just saying , they are in deep sheet o. the sales side if its 400 bucks or higher thats just a bad price in a bad economy.

[3Dude]

Those 3GB RAM Dev Kits are older ones. Most likely Dev kit V3 or V4. V5 probably has 4GBs of RAM.

Could be possible. I don't have any hard info on that one way or another.

I do know the latest sdk release broke compatability with previous sdk's again.

the thing is, the wii u is using mainly using 2010-2011 tech you cant beat that honestly. you think microsoft is stupid enough to release another 360 when its not even going to be first to the market? lol i dont think so. microsoft doesnt want to lose money again unless they are crazy lol.


how the heck are they going to keep the xbox affordable if it has an eight core cpu, comes with a kinect v2 , and especially during this economy they will have problems if its another 360. just saying , they are in deep sheet o. the sales side if its 400 bucks or higher thats just a bad price in a bad economy.

Whoa guy, I have no authority over microsoft. I can't tell them what to do.

All I can do is observe the information I get.

Although regaurding cost, it isn't necessarily the fact that its an 8 core processor that's going to be the biggest cost driver, so much as exactly WHAT the processor is.

And MS isn't in deep doo doo. That's Sony.