Goodtwin

I will say that in terms of twitch gameplay situations, the controls in the NSMB games are going to feel more precise.  I didnt notice this as much in single player, but when in the challenge app, it can be frustrating at times with wall jumps sometimes not feeling as tight as I would like.  Some of this comes from the fact that you also use the jump button as your float button.  I think it would be better if I could move the float function to the ZL button instead of having it tied to the jump button.  The controls are different thats for sure, its definitely floaty, but thats not to say they are bad.

Yep, this is Nintendo quality and polish, but its not made by Nintendo.  Rayman Legends outclasses the New Super Mario Bros games in pretty much every area.  If your into platformers, then you owe it to yourself to play this game.  Graphics are gorgeous, the gameplay is excellent, a little floaty at first, but you quickly get used to that, and the charm is through the roof.  This will win the best game nobody played award this year.  I hope it sells well, and if my local retailer being nearly sold out is any indication, then maybe its doing ok, but the likelihood of selling Mario numbers is nil.  Great game solo, and an even better game with others.  I love it.     

Next gen is pretty subjective, but when you look at it from the perspective that if the game is using next gen effects then it should probably be considered next gen, even if you dont personally think it looks that much better than the best looking previous gen games.  There are bound to be some X1 and PS4 games that dont exactly blow away games like God of War and Halo 4, but they will still be considered next gen.  You arent automatically getting next gen graphics just because the developer has more power to work with.  Naughty Dog recently said that great games and great graphics are far more dependent on the developers skill than the limitations of the hardware.  Nintendo has found this out the hard way.  They werent ready for the increased demand for resources to create great looking HD games.  If it was simply a matter of the hardware, then the team size wouldnt need to increase. 

So far we are seeing more advanced shaders and potential use of tessellation in Pikmin 3.  So even if poly count, resolution, and AA are all very much current gen, its next gen in the sense that it is using features not possible on current gen consoles. 

Its so easy in a fanboy thread to make up information about how powerful a console is based on our own desires rather than reality. There are some specs we know as facts and they are the fabrication process is 45nm which is marginally worse or the same as ps3 and 360 and the main memory bandwidth is low at 12.8GB/s, a lot of the other spec is open to some sort of intepretation because none of it has been confirmed. So the real evidence is how the wii u is actually performing in comparison with 360 and PS3 and in that regard its performing badly often struggling to match them fully. Again you can intepret this as difficulties in developing for the wii u or lack of financial reward as another excuse for its low performance but at some point surely after a large number of games have been developed you will accept the wii u console is weak. It amazes me how hard people on this forum work to pretend the wii u is more powerful than it is.

 

If the wii u is sufficiently more powerful than current gen then current gen games should run on it easily not struggle. Developers should have so many additional resources that even if the game looks the same it has better frame rates and loading times. Clearly there is something horribly wrong with the wii u spec if it can not easily outperform consoles released over 7 years ago.

Do you even read anything that isnt negative about the Wii U?  If so, you may have realized that the Shin'en recently confirmed how the memory hierarchy works with the Wii U, and it effectively delivers better performance when you use the edram and cpu cache properly.  I am willing to accept that the PS4 and X1 are quite a bit more powerful than the Wii U, they have a lot more ram and a GPU that is 3-4 times more powerful, but to base the Wii U's performance on some sketchy ports its just insane and you know it.  We are less than a year into the Wii U, and its already showing more advanced software than the PS3 and 360 were able to create even after 6+ years of development familiarity.  So while the Wii U may only be a half step up compared to the other two consoles, its going to be a step above the 360 and PS3 without question.  Shin'en has already reveled  that the important information that you would need to understand before making an accurate assumption of what the Wii U is capable of.  Games ported/developed with incomplete dev kits and information that run on game engines designed around a PC'ish design wasnt going to shine on Wii U.  I blame Nintendo for not being better prepared, but its obvious that the Wii U is just now starting to come into its prime. 

I would like to know what their budget was for this game then.  Sales so far would reflect a 10-12 million dollar return for Ubisoft, and this game was sure no AAA budget title.  It was developed in about 18 months.  Not to mention that there is no reason for Ubisoft to dicontinue sales for this game anytime soon.  They could easily sell this game for the following 4 years on the eshop for $15-20 and rack up millions more in profit.  I would hope Ubisoft is smart enough to continue to push Zombi U this holiday season.  Drop the price to $39.99 and run some advertising.  There is no reason for this game to not have decent legs.  Its still one of the more innovative games for Wii U, and that will most likely remain true this holiday season.  How about a 30 second Wii U Ubisoft commercial that quickly showcases a handful for thier games for Wii U this holiday, finish with Zombi U "now only $39.99."   

I'm hoping, HOPING, that Wii U can reach 5 - 6 million by November 18th (one full year for the Wii U), and I hope they sell 3 million more+ between then and 18th January 2014. I'm sure that the combination of Wind Waker, Mario 3D World, DK Tropical Freeze, Batman: Arkham Origins, Watch_Dogs, COD: Ghosts will draw in enough gamers, plus I'm hoping that a lot of soccer moms will be buying a Wii U not only for their kids but for Wii Fit U (yes I know, booo) because even if it's a large majority buying Wii U this christmas for a casual game like Wii Fit U, it'll boost the install base enough for publishers to release 3rd party games on the Wii U, thus in turn attracting core gamers and growing the core install base. 

 

But one can only dream. One thing they need to do is start advertising on public transport and TV. Parents aren't going to be watching Nintendo directs to know about the Wii U, They're going to need TV, newspapers, and public transport billboards. Words and phrases like "brand" "new" "console" are welcome.

I think thats exactly whats going to happen.  Wii U is going to have another great holiday season, but I dont expect sales to change much prior to the holiday season.  The difference will be that once there are a handful of quality exclusives on the platform, then the sales shouldnt tank so bad after the holiday season.  I am expecting 7-8 million Wii U's sold by the end of this year, and then come the new year, sales should stabilize around 50-75k per week.  Once Mario Kart releases, then things will really pick back up, with Smash Bros carrying the momentum even further.  You would assume that the 3DS market is a pretty good indication of the market that Nintendo can target.  If there are over 30 million consumers who bought a 3DS, then tjhe market for Nintendo games should still be pretty large.  If nobody wanted to play Nintendo games anymore, then I seriously doubt the 3DS would be so popular.   

I personally feel that Nintendo is going to transition into a portable/home console hybrid.  Think about about everything Nintendo has done.  They merged their portable and home console hardware divisions into one.  They have been very concious about getting a lot of performance with very low power draw.  The Gamepad already looks like a portable.  Nintendo could release a portable that has a wireless HDMI connection with the TV for the home console experience.  In five years time, Nintendo could do this and have more powerful hardware than both Sony and Microsoft.  Mobile technology has been advancing quickly.  I think the Wii U is the last traditonal home console Nintendo will ever make. 

 He keeps promising third party support THAT NEVER HAPPENS, EVER!!!!

They do have third party support, but what you consider to be great third party support and what Nintendo considers to be great third party support are probably two very different things.  Nintendo looks at the lineup and see's Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Splinter Cell, Sonic Lost Worlds, Deus Ex, Assassins Creed, Batman, ect. and thinks that looks good.  When you really look at the lineup, it actually is very good, but we tend to focus on what the Wii U isnt getting, even if you werent all that interested in those titles.  We arent getting Battlefield, its the end of the world right?  The problem exist that the small minority of gamers who would have bought those games on Wii U dont really represent the real audience on the platform.  As vocal as people on interest forums can be, there is no denying that the new Sonic Lost Worlds game would likely outsell a game like Battlefield on Wii U by a very large margin.  This just isnt the case on other platforms.  Publishers are trying to offer games on the appropriate platforms where the sales incentives are the highest. 

Nintendo will need a good install base to bring the 3rd party devs back. The only bad thing is we most likely wont have one until Q2-Q3 2014. Thank goodness the 3DS is keeping the Wii U afloat until then.

Yep, thats pretty much the truth.  Until the Wii U seems like an attractive platform from a business sense, then third party support will be hit and miss.  Nintendo feels confident that they can turn things around with thier first party titles later this year, so hopefully that ends up being the case and Nintendo quickly expands its userbase.  If not, the support will probably get pretty thin in 2014.  I expect Mario Kart to be the game that really takes Wii U to the mass market.  Mario 3D World and DKC will make for a strong holiday season, but It will be Mario Kart and Smash Bros that give the Wii U long term sales. 

X and Bayonetta are the most visually impressive games for Wii U at E3.  X looks very nice, but its not on the same level as the new Metal Gear.  I agree with 3Dude on the the Bayonetta comment, the city scope that made people crap themselves in Killzone Shadowfall is rivaled by Bayonetta 2.  Its obviously still not on the same level, Bayonetta 2 is also in 720P and not 1080p, but it still showcases that the Wii U is pretty capable.  My opinion of the Wii U performance has definately gone down after E3.  The X1 and PS4 games have made a much larger leap over the Wii U than the Wii U has made over the 360/PS3.  I now see the Wii U as a modernized 360 with extra ram.  I will save that for another thread though. 

Very, VERY few GAF members have a grasp on what the Jaguar cores are actually capable of, these are the same people that thought that a low clocked chip with high IPC and efficiency couldn't exist precisely until the PS4 clocks were announced.

It is rather comical.  The same people that were bashing the Wii U for its tri core low clocked cpu, who were trying to convince everyone that this would cripple the system in the physics aned AI department truly became silent once the Jaguar cpu was announced.  Its amazing how the CPU can go from be vital to a next gen system to nobody wanting to even talk about it.  Now its all about the ram and GPU and suddenly CPU is an afterthought.  Why was it so important when everyone assumed the PS4 and X1 would have high end cpu's but now that it has a tablet cpu its of no consequence?  Its pretty comical.  Not to mention that the Wii U cpu is pretty darn efficient, its definately no I5 or I7 cpu, but its definately far more capable than any of the Gaf haters wanted to admit.

The developer not correctly using the huge caches properly is not a hardware problem, its a coding problem.  If the developer isnt making 100% use of the large caches , then dont blame the hardware.  If your constatly stalling the cpu with cache misses, and you have 3MB of cpu cache at your disposal, then the developer needs to look for the problem, because the CPU should not be completeing work faster than you code fills the cache.  Same goes for the edram in the GPU, dont complain because your code doesnt make good use of the edram.  The GPU is centered around this very tight memory management.  I dont think very many developers have really grasped how this works, but those that do will find huge performance gains. 

I don't see where you would come to the conclusion that it is HD4XXX or 5XXX, they just said several generations.  The shaders themselves are E6760 for sure, I think they are pointing out that there is a lot of custom stuff going on that you need to work at to use properly.

Thats fine, I just used the HD4 and HD5 as examples because they are more familiar to most people.  I agree that the shader cores looked very similar to the SIMD cores used in the E6760.  Either way, I like that they straight up say that the Wii U is more powerful.  

Also, this whole "if it's used right" thing, ugh. It sounds the same as PS3 last gen. Sony was trying to spin a stupid design by saying, "We wanted to make the ps3 difficult to program so people would be encouraged to experiment." BS you did Sony.

 

I see what your saying, but I disagree.  If we were to judge the PS3 based on early cruddy games, then the PS3 would be considered a crappy performer, but after games like Killzone 3 and Uncharted showcased what the hardware can actually do, then it became apparent that the hardware is indeed far more capable than early software showed, and when programmed correctly, it performs to a very high level.  I dont expect the Wii U to be a huge brain buster, but its obvious that porting 360 code to Wii U is not very efficient. 

I love that Shin'en is willing to come out and voice their opinion on this.  It also calls out developers, if your performance sucks, its probably your fault so quit blaming the hardware for your lack of ability to properly manage the cpu cache and GPU edram.  They are also basically telling us that the GPU is using HD4*** or HD5*** technology, and that its more or less a use it or lose it situation.  Its not a linear power increase, meaning that it doesnt automatically run old code better than the old hardware.  Its going to be awesome when Shin'en shows off their next game and it looks and performs better than all these third party ports. 

No, its not.

Unlike certain yo yo's i DONT use internet message board posts as 'facts'.

Everything i say is backed straight from the source, with official ibm documention. That i can actually provide. Which i will, attached to this post.

750 architecture gets 2.32 dmips per mhz FACT.

ppe/xenon (xenon is 3 ppe's) gets 1879 dmips @ 3.2 GHz, do the math, thats .59 dmips per mhz FACT.

Fact vs loaded hearsay.

There is nothing in between.

It didnt get a lot of attention over at Gaf, but someone there was able to run some benchmarks coparing the PPC750CL to the Bobcat cpu.  The PPC was quite a bit more efficient than the Bobcat in IPC, to the number of about 30% better.  So even if the Wii U cpu was simply upgraded Broadway cores with better cache, they would absolutely blow the PS3 and 360 CPU's out of the water, and should beat the PS4 and Xone on a core to core basis. 

Its the GPU and ram where the PS4 and to a lesser extent the Xone will really outshine the Wii U.  Both of those consoles will handle 1080p far better than Wii U, and will be able to accomodate more effects all at once.  Just because the Wii U has a similar feature set tot he PS4 and Xone doesnt mean they are eual, there are DX11 $40 GPU cards that will straight up choke on a high end 360 game, just because something is DX11 capable doesnt tell you anything about performance.  Thank goodness E3 is just around the corner, its about time people learn what the Wii U can really do, the current general consensus is that its only on par with the current gen consoles.  Come on Retro, its time to show off the hardware. 

What are you expecting for graphics exactly? I can't find the quote, but I think Sega stated that the next generation won't be looking for a highly realistic style and will continue with what they been doing. Which are bright and colorful graphics. These graphics are great in my opinion. So I'm just wondering what were you expecting?

Yea, I thought they hit the mark as well.  These look like a fantastic attempt at creating great cartoon graphics, and the gameplay seems to be taking the 2D gameplay elements and making them work in a 3D world.  Everything looked crisp and clean to me, exactly what I would expect from a Sonic game that isnt held back by the hardware.