This is actually a good thing for both the PS4 and the gaming industry.  More competition for the second screen idea, and it may spur vita sales.  I will most likely pick up a vita when it starts selling for less, I expect them to announce a price drop at e3.

Its a great thing because it opens up even more gameplay options on Sony platforms.  Well done Sony if this is true.

I owned my first M rated game when i was... well... 3? maybe 4?

Games don't effect kids in any way possible, ya it might teach them some swear words but thats it, How the kid really is is from how they were brought up. M rated games never effected me in the slightest, i never swear, never really had a urge to hold a gun, Why? Because my parents told me not to...

I see nothing wrong with that that kid was saying, You do exactly what he said in the games, he seemed like he had fun playing it, I played GTA with friends and loved killing people in a tank at 5/6 years old. Yet we grew up perfectly normal. I honestly can't stare someone in the face and say violent games make violent kids without smirking. It just doesn't make sense with that me and my friends all experienced as a kid.

No, that is incorrect.  violent imagery does effect the nervous system of children in a possibly damaging way.  humans are not fully mentally developed until well into their 20s, but before 18 they are completely malleable and can be susceptible to suggestive material.

Bear in mind the typical parenting method offers rewards for what is accepted as "good" behavior.  That's how our entire social system is built.  Do good things, get rewarded.

Many Children who play video games are rewarded with play time when they've met any number of conditions.  This teaches them that playing video games is rewarding and something they should seek.  There is nothing inherently wrong with this.

Where it gets problematic is when children are exposed to elicit imagery (violence, sexual content, etc) during those rewarding play times, the brain creates a connection with the images themselves, and the dopamine and  seratonin rush that is experienced when doing anything that your mind accepts as a reward (eating, playing games, being with friends, etc).

As time goes on and they keep receiving these reward hormones for experiencing these violent or malevolent images, they become desensitized.  This has been proven to be the case even in adults, but in adults (normal adults) the super ego has had time to develop substantially enough that even with desensitization, they are able to differentiate between the imagery and an actual event.

For children, who's ego's and super ego's are still early in development, the differentiation has not occurred.  They can (don't always, but can, depending on length of exposure, type, etc) view anything violent and their pleasure center will light up like a Christmas tree, which can lead to them believing that violent imagery and thereby violence is not only socially acceptable, but a good thing in general.

Basically, what I'm saying is that while not every child who views a violent video game will become violent, sociopathic, or otherwise, proper care should still be taken while children are developing mentally to ensure they are not overexposed to suggestive content.  Children literally are unable to handle the concepts of right and wrong until late into their first decade, they learn these things through their experiences.  Teenagers are struggling hand and foot with their id, while their ego's are trying to help them determine a sense of self and belonging within society.

These aren't things parents should ever take lightly, only they have the ultimate capability to help or hinder that development with the right cues and monitoring what their children are exposed to.

I also want to say that I am only three months away from having my first child.  I am a fan of interactive entertainment, video games.  I have worked with my wife to create a plan on how we will gradually expose our daughter to these and other forms of entertainment in a way that is responsible but also reinforces to her that we have trust in her, and that we want her to have a wide breadth of experiences even at a young age, but any exposure will be carefully thought out, planned, and supervised, so that when there are those existential questions that need to be answered, the why's and the what if's of childhood, we will be there to answer and guide her to a better understanding of her surroundings by being honest about both the context as well as our intentions.

Why did it take them so long to even get it shipped if its going to be less than 6 or 4 hours? Should be $40 if that is true.

Why?  It took longer so the developer could polish it, like most Nintendo exclusives, they want it to be the best it can be.  Something tells me that the short storyline isn't going to be a hindrance in the slightest.

What is a TFLOP? Hearing it a lot here.

Tera- Floating Point Operations

did you spell doom with zeroes? and doom? no, I just don't like websites claiming that something with no proof at all. In this case that the Wii U is leaps and bounds ahead of the ps360. If I saw an article that said that the xbox one was going to be the best thing to happen to gaming, I would have issues with that as well. You mistake disliking fanboyism for negativity. I have no doubt the Wii U will do fine.

As has already been stated, Nintendo Land is pulling off effects that are downright impossible on last generation hardware, as well as effects that were absolutely unfeasible given the performance limitations.  Not only that, its doing it on two separate screens, at the same time, from completely different viewpoints, with nary a hiccup in sight.

What you are looking for is not a great looking game, you are looking for a great looking photorealistic game, that shows advances over the previous two HD twins.  It will come in the form of Watch_Dogs, Splinter Cell, and other games running on brand new engines.

It will also happen with Retro's title, whatever it ends up being.  For now, we have great looking games that are simply ports from other systems and then we have exclusives like NanoAssault, which is amazing looking, NFS, which was able to do things the PS360 versions were not, Trine2, which is a PC port rather than a console port because it was able to handle the game better.

The proof is right there in front of you, you just aren't willing to look at it and accept it for what it is.

Have you read this book?

http://en.wikipedia...._Without_Growth

A feel good book about how prosperity is about rainbows, butterflies, and feeling good about yourself.  This is the real world.  Prosperity, the economic term, requires growth to reach the largest audience, without growth you have caste, all prosperity is limited to an exclusive group of people.  Something that politicians absolutely want.

We can still have emotional prosperity, and I think that book refers more to that than economic prosperity, tries to tie the two together, fails.  Emotional prosperity is extremely rewarding and does not require economic prosperity.

What do the skeptics have. I don't see their numbers.

That's what you got out of that?  You want to find out "their numbers"?  This isnt a war of attrition, its about science.  If you must know, there was a petition to the IPCC that acquired the signatures of over 50,000 geologists, climatologists, and meterologists, the petition was for the IPCC to stop referring to a phantom concensus and to allow scientists to speak on the subject rather than call them "non-believers".  IPCC was refusing to allow certain scientists to receive peer reviews on much of their work if it was not in lock step with the global warming narrative at the time, this was before the emails were leaked showing primary IPCC board members were actively revising information to fit their narrative.

Nintendo is a New IP, but all it is is a collaboration of old IPs. The last good new IP by Nintendo was Pikmin, 10 years ago.

Unless you count WiiFit, but that isn't really a gamers' game.  Or Wii Sports, which also got its own sequel.  WiiPlay.  Endless Ocean. Flingsmash, etc.  There were new IP's, just not the IP that everyone wants them to make.  Interestingly, though, they acquired the Fire Emblem series and Xeno, which have delivered.

Most people want them to make a "mature" photorealistic game.  I doubt it will be rated mature and I doubt it will be "photorealistic" but I do think it will look spectacular and will definitely turn heads, whatever it is.

Anyone else notice that the wisps bear a strong resemblance to the new enemies themselves?

Denial is a hoax if anything. We got science on our side.

Actually, you don't.  What you have are faked numbers, manipulated data, political agenda, and scientists desperate for government funding.  Scientists that you would call "dissentors" and are actually the majority of scientists, are not getting paid to speak on climate change, while climate scientists who are using climate change to further their own narratives and agenda are being paid millions in climate research grants by governments all over the world, then they call it 'science' and 'consensus' where there is neither.

The earth was in a warming trend from 85 to 98, we've been on a cooling trend since then, not rapid, it's very gentle in fact.  That bright ball in the sky that you've probably been spending most of your life avoiding is the cause of all of it.

Got Sonic Racing, RE:R, KungFu Rabbit, NanoAssault

on another note, I got FE:A as well.  Very addictive game.

Those people are going to feel awfully stupid when they are drifting in the middle of the ocean.

No, see it doesn't work that way.  It's sad that you bought into the "polar ice caps melting photos AAHHHHH" hype when all they were showing you was natural seasonal fluctuation in ice cap density throughout a single year, every year.  Ice freezes, melts, refreezes constantly.  They were showing summer photos and still do to "prove" that the ice caps are melting.  And they like to show polar bears on ice rafts, when polar bears happen to be the best mammalian swimmers in the animal kingdom.  They intentionally get onto ice rafts so they can peer into the water and spot schools of fish.

You never know, they could come out and surprise us. I'm very skeptical on this. Could be Metroid, could be Star Fox, could be a new IP and the one with the lowest chance is probably FZERO.

I have a feeling that Shin'en are either working on FZero or something like it that will be Nintendo exclusive.

They didn't actually SAY anything. The Wii U is good. Okay, we get it, you like the Wii U. It sounds like an advertisement or something. I'll keep saying this, but until the Wii U actually SHOWS a game that is "several generations" worth of GPU ahead of the "current" gen, no one will give the Wii U any credit. I'm just tired of this PR BS that doesn't mean anything.

 

Also, this whole "if it's used right" thing, ugh. It sounds the same as PS3 last gen. Sony was trying to spin a stupid design by saying, "We wanted to make the ps3 difficult to program so people would be encouraged to experiment." BS you did Sony. You messed up on the design and you paid for it early in the consoles life. Developers know and like PCs. If you go to far away from that, it becomes difficult to port to your console, and companies will start to wonder if it's worth it. I pray the Wii U doesn't have the same problems. It has enough issues with not being "hardcore" enough.

It already does, Nintendo Land showcases several features and techniques that are simply not possible on last generation hardware.  The most prominent being OIT.

Thats fine, I just used the HD4 and HD5 as examples because they are more familiar to most people.  I agree that the shader cores looked very similar to the SIMD cores used in the E6760.  Either way, I like that they straight up say that the Wii U is more powerful.  

 

  

 

I see what your saying, but I disagree.  If we were to judge the PS3 based on early cruddy games, then the PS3 would be considered a crappy performer, but after games like Killzone 3 and Uncharted showcased what the hardware can actually do, then it became apparent that the hardware is indeed far more capable than early software showed, and when programmed correctly, it performs to a very high level.  I dont expect the Wii U to be a huge brain buster, but its obvious that porting 360 code to Wii U is not very efficient. 

Agreed 100%.

Also, Sony DID want developers to experiment to see what they could do with what, at the time, was one of the most advanced processor architectures in the world.

You can argue that NintendoLand Crashmo, Mii Series are all new ips ect. But honestly, I don't think thats what people want when they ask for a new IP. They mean something to the size of Zelda or Mario. They mean something that could eventually become a major franchise. The last one we've got was Pikmin.

Here's why I think it will be a new IP.

Remember all of the rumors?  100YOG "Something everyone wants them to make" The only thing EVERYONE wants them to make is a new IP

The GAF poster? "Something no one thought they had the balls to make" is a new IP, this is Nintendo after all.

Interesting, I clicked on this thread and all of a sudden I received a few popups, the annoying kind that don't like to be closed.  Did you create a virus laden thread?

I got the 550 coin shirt, and the 300 (600?) coin wiimote holder.  Nintendo just released the WIi accessory tote on Club Nintendo that looks pretty awesome and is Luigi themed and limited.

Another good one since you have a ton of coins is the Game & Watch Ball game.

I've never had an issue playing domination in BO2 either.  I would still go with an exclusive if you are looking for a single game.  MH3U is very popular, there are plenty of people all over the world to hunt with.

I love that Shin'en is willing to come out and voice their opinion on this.  It also calls out developers, if your performance sucks, its probably your fault so quit blaming the hardware for your lack of ability to properly manage the cpu cache and GPU edram.  They are also basically telling us that the GPU is using HD4*** or HD5*** technology, and that its more or less a use it or lose it situation.  Its not a linear power increase, meaning that it doesnt automatically run old code better than the old hardware.  Its going to be awesome when Shin'en shows off their next game and it looks and performs better than all these third party ports. 

I don't see where you would come to the conclusion that it is HD4XXX or 5XXX, they just said several generations.  The shaders themselves are E6760 for sure, I think they are pointing out that there is a lot of custom stuff going on that you need to work at to use properly.

It hasn't been "forever" since they've had a new IP, NintendoLand is a new IP.  It's been forever since they created a new IP with a campaign.

I only compared the ps3 and wii u video at 720p and I could see no difference. It is frustrating when a game slows down under extreme load though as that is exactly the point you want the game to be silky smooth if your being attacked by a large number of enemies or an end boss.

 

I really think this game could have been 1080p on the wii u. It's really just an upscaled 3DS game and plays much the same. The fact the game looks the same as ps3 is not right. This is exactly the type of game that could have been optimised on wii u to perform above 360 and PS3 because the 3DS itself is a gpu centric handheld console.

 

Also as expressed by many this game should have supported 3D televisions. This is exactly the sort of game that works great in 3D.

 

Many PS3 owners are disappointed because of its absense. Capcom have claimed it's missing because not all consoles could support 3D. So it sounds like it may have been removed from ps3 because of wii u.

 

+ Mike Lunn on January 22nd, 2013 at 4:25 pm said:

1. Wasn’t necessarily the WHOLE point, but it’s hard to really get away without it on certain platforms. That being said the PS3 version will not support 3D unfortunately. We wanted all the new versions to be consistent with each other and 3D wasn’t doable on all platforms so the decision was made to move forward without it.

2. We haven’t discussed controls just yet, we’ll be digging into this a bit later. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but thanks for your patience!

3. Same as #2, haven’t revealed the full details yet. Stay tuned! Same bat-time, same bat-channel

4. Fantastic survival horror campaign, upgraded RAID mode, new costumes, completely redone HD visuals, new characters to play as, new skills, new customization parts, new enemies, more challenging difficulty modes, reduced/optimized loading, enemy/item positioning is now random to mix things up a bit, RE.net integration and unlockables, etc. This is definitely not a simple port as some may imagine

5. 3DS and PS-vita infrastructure let alone developing games for them are extremely different beasts. Even just the screens as you mention are completely different resolutions/functions. Take a look at the top comment for my full Vita response.

 

Really annoying the lack of 3D support for wii u. It could be a cpu issue I guess as 3D games are much more cpu intensive, something the cell of the ps3 is brilliant at achieving. 360 3D games don't compare well to ps3 3D games generally. There is a rumour that the new 3D mario game may actually be a 3D tv supporting game but I think the 3D bit is just because of the recent releases of 2D mario games on wii and wii u. I don't know of a single 3D wii u game currently.

3D isn't CPU intensive when you have a GPU centric system, requires frames to be rendered twice at once from different perspectives, something the Wii U is already doing in EVERY GAME.

The art style is starting to grow on me, its straight up genesis sonic in 3d. However, those villains.... Look incredibly out of place.

I still like generations art style better even looing at screens now. But one things very clear, whether you like tge art direction or not. This game looks smooth as butter compared to the blockiness of generations. Pretty sure they are using tesselation.

Smooth as butter indeed. Though considering all of the villains have the same colors as the chaos emeralds, I doubt they'll feel out of place once you start playing through the game.  

It didnt get a lot of attention over at Gaf, but someone there was able to run some benchmarks coparing the PPC750CL to the Bobcat cpu.  The PPC was quite a bit more efficient than the Bobcat in IPC, to the number of about 30% better.  So even if the Wii U cpu was simply upgraded Broadway cores with better cache, they would absolutely blow the PS3 and 360 CPU's out of the water, and should beat the PS4 and Xone on a core to core basis. 

 

Its the GPU and ram where the PS4 and to a lesser extent the Xone will really outshine the Wii U.  Both of those consoles will handle 1080p far better than Wii U, and will be able to accomodate more effects all at once.  Just because the Wii U has a similar feature set tot he PS4 and Xone doesnt mean they are eual, there are DX11 $40 GPU cards that will straight up choke on a high end 360 game, just because something is DX11 capable doesnt tell you anything about performance.  Thank goodness E3 is just around the corner, its about time people learn what the Wii U can really do, the current general consensus is that its only on par with the current gen consoles.  Come on Retro, its time to show off the hardware. 

Apt, but we know that Espresso cannot be simply an optimized PPC750cl, which was one of the lowest end models of that chip created.  The cache alone points to it being at least based on Power7, the addition of SMP, and the fact that it was able to handle CPU SIMD heavy games on only two cores points to a stronger SIMD engine and FPU than PPC750 ever had in any iteration.

I agree that the GPU and RAM do surpass Wii U, but not to the point that they can do an incredible amount more work.  If you take two cards that have different architectures and power figures but the same features, at around the same price point, they'll do pretty much the same amount of work.  Nintendo obviously put a lot of R&D work behind the GPU, but not just in unified shader application, they like to do things their way, and going full on with programmable shaders is something they weren't prepared to do yet.  Either way, we'll see how the RAM and GPU in the PS4 gives it a little boost, but it won't be big, and most won't notice the difference without being told.  It isn't anywhere near even PS2 to Gamecube difference, it will be a subtle difference, and will be shown with fewer loads, it will still be able to handle 1080p without any issues once developers hit their stride and start using that 32MB of EDRAM effectively.  How long that will take is anyone's guess.

Seeing as NERD is looking into GPGPU cloud computing, Nintendo may find a way to extend the capabilities of the system, though I have my doubts as to how effective that will be.

Rumors right now are also pointing to a brand new IP from Retro, or Startropics, though I tend to side with 3Dude.  When you look at the portfolios of the people they are hiring, it has to be fantasy based.

I suppose. I was just expecting less cartoony.


I suppose. I was just expecting less cartoony.

Trust me, you don't want them trying to make realistic sonic, it isn't a good thing.  Cartoony is good.

3dude, you are a delusional fanboy who has no sense of reality.  The wii u's cpu architecture dates back to the last century and it was powerful then but things have moved on. The PS3 and 360 cpu's don't compare well to the wii u cpu on a mhz vs mhz basis but then both ps3 and 360 are running their cpu's at 3.2ghz not 1.25ghz and the ps3 has 2 threads and 7 support processors all running at 3.2ghz not 3 at 1.25ghz. The 360 has 6 threads at 3.2ghz in total not 3 at 1.25ghz. Clearly if the wii u cpu was at 3.2ghz then it would be a different story but its running at close to 1/3rd the speed with just 3 processes. Your view that somehow a very dated cpu x3 run at a very low speed is somehow a competitive cpu design in 2013 is totally unrealistic and only acceptable to the most demented of fanboys. 

 

The PS4 and xbox one have all the advantages of an even more modern gpu than wii u so their weak cpu performance still represents a huge increase over ps3, 360 and wii u in real terms and they are still at least 4x as powerful as wii u in integer performance and a huge massive increase in performance in other areas.

 

You need to look at what the wii u is achieving in performance. It is ridiculous to make your claims when the wii u is still getting beaten by 360 and PS3 in performance terms. There is no golden horizon to come when suddenly the wii u will outperform 360 and PS3 for all games and go on to challenge xbox one and ps4. The 360 and PS3 still have more cpu performance than wii u and where games need this the wii u will underperform. For gpu centric games the wii u will be able to make a small step ahead of ps3 and 360 but its a marginally increase. The wii u is using a 45nm process, Sony had already moved to 40nm for the rsx sometime before the wii u was released. Everything we know about the wii u including developer leaks like the metro developer stating the wii u has a 'horrible slow cpu', performance, power consumption, fabrication process, x-ray image examination supports the view that the wii u performs to current gen performance.

 

Surely you realise its utterly moronic to create a fantasy image of the wii u technically that has zero connection with the reality of how wii u games are performing. It's also pointless attacking me when the information I'm posting is widely available from a huge number of sources where as the 'wii u is actually very powerful' articles are strangely absent on the internet.

DP,

You are an ignoramus that would rather float BS speculation thrown out on GAF by others who have no idea how this stuff works, as fact, making it obvious that you have no idea how this stuff works.  You probably never heard of Dhrystone until you saw the GAF thread.

Every CPU's architecture dates back to the last century, they are all iterations of the original microchip, what's your point?  Why go strawman rather than defend your original statements for what they are, copy/pasted bullcrap from GAF that you have no clue about and isn't accurate to begin with.

Wii U's CPU is based on Power7, and PPC.  Its almost like IBM makes custom CPU's.  The EDRAM, the SMP architecture, the SIMD engines, the FPU, all Power7 architecture.

CPU's don't compare linearly based on MHz, I'd have thought anyone would have known that by now.  Shorter (much shorter) pipeline stages, faster cache (than Jaguar even), more cache (than Jaguar even), More modern instruction set (RISC).

No, you don't have to be a fanboy to understand that IPC>GHz.  The reason PPE was at 3.2GHz to begin with was because it had poor IPC, long pipeline stages, and in order execution.  It was making up for areas where those CPU's lacked severely.  It isn't foreign to see lower clocked CPU's that are faster and stronger than much higher clocked ones.  Improvements in process, design, instructions, and cache have allowed a high performing CPU that uses little juice, runs cool, has high IPC, all on lower clocks. 

XBOX One and PS4 don't have "more modern" GPU's than Wii U.  They all share the exact shader architecture, the only difference being the number of shaders.  The big difference is that Nintendo loves to throw in custom logic.  To put it one way, 100% of the PS4 GPU can do about 4x the floating point operations as 50% of the Wii U GPU.

You keep saying "look at the performance we've seen" when we've seen nothing of Wii U's performance threshold.  No where near it in fact.  What we've seen are ports and a game that started development on prototype hardware.  Great, that's incredibly indicative of performance going forward. 

The Metro developer went back on that actually, so yeah.  All of the developers who have worked on the Wii U have openly praised its capability.  Openly.  While people with no experience on the console (or an axe to grind, EA) have tried desperately to create a narrative that it is somehow on par with seven year old hardware on a technical level when everything, ESPECIALLY the die shots, make it very clear that the architecture for both the CPU and GPU are new, and both actually raised more questions than they answered.  40nm is a pretty standard process even by today's standards.  My CPU is at 40nm and performs better than any of the more recent CPU's on the market from AMD.  AMD's dual core module design is what is killing performance in all of their chips, and Jaguar is no different.  In fact, my CPU performs better at 3.0GHz than even Piledriver does at 4.0GHz, better IPC.

Asserting that the DIE shots proved somehow that the hardware was "current gen" is ludicrous and another delusional disingenuous post.  X-ray cannot "show" the performance of the chip, it can show how the logic is arranged and give basic ideas, that is all.

If he thinks that  the wii u is 3-4 times as powerful as the xbox 360 and ps3 what does he think  that makes the newer consoles

 

 

bearing in mind that a late last year nvidia announced that  PC's has just passed the last gens  by 10 times(entering pcs in the relm of  emulation for those consoles). And  the ps4 and  x1 are  most argueably not in the same range as those

 

(for arguments sake,  my 2[a year before the nvidia announcemnt] year old gpu has 2.4tflops and the ps4 is said to have 1.84tflops)

 

 

 

i would also like  all of you to mind that a large  portion of the power of each device will be locked to certain features such as streamins support (which is a intensive task that cannot be left unchecked, les you expect the console preform diffrently  with it on vs off) also mind  console develops  would (or rather should) want the console to run the same at all times, allwoing the share service to be used without slowing down any game.

PS3 also had "1.8TFLOPS"

How quickly people forget.  I get your point, though.  None of the consoles are on par with PC's but that doesn't matter.  They are two completely separate markets that happen to get some of the same games.

And you are right, streaming and encoding video in the background, while also having a boatload of other services at the ready at all times takes lots of cycles to keep around, as well as RAM.  It's all rainbows and fairytales for some of the Sony drones and xbots until they see what the actual games will look like when they ship.  Wii U might be slightly underpowered, but it means less this generation than in any other generation in history, especially considering that all three consoles have the same hardware feature set.  They all support DX11.1 or equivalent, they all can support all available engines, they all have GPGPU, they all have modern CPU instruction sets.  They can do all of the same things, will it matter in the end that one of the consoles can do slightly less of something than another?  It isn't going to be like XBOX vs PS2, they had completely different feature sets.  It's going to be like a PC with a midrange GPU and CPU, vs a PC with a lightly lower end midrange GPU but a similarly capable CPU.

There are GPU's on the market right now that get half the FLOPs performance of my cards, yet can pull the same or better framerates in comparisons.