200 replies to this topic

[routerbad]

Similar to how the Wii U's GPU was down scaled in terms of Clock Speed, the Raw Power of the PS4 GPU could be a 7970 Card, but down scaled in terms of sheer power, while maintaining compatibility.

And the 8xxx series is due for release this year, so it could be one of those cards, just low scale.

And Finally, I've even emailed AMD before, in which they confirmed that its a CUSTOMIZED Radeon e6760, however Nintendo likely customized it down lol

I honestly still support my opinion that its 6-7x better



Welcome to the world of Sony, please pay the $2000 admission fee

HAHAHA exactly! It would be a train wreck for them if they even tried to include the 8970. You have to keep in mind that they are probably already in manufacturing stage, and probably have been for a little while. Using prototype hardware would not be a good decision on their part either, so even a scaled down version of the 8000 series is a huge leap.

I'm going to stick with 6770 or 7770. The 7970 GPU is also very expensive and would blow 1.8ish TFLOPS away. I really think they went with a stockish high mid range GPU. I doubt they did a whole lot of customization, because that cost even more to produce. One of the reasons the Wii U is the price it is and Nintendo are losing money on them.

Oh it's pretty much a certainty they went with the e6760 SIMD engines, but not much else.

No... Watch the video again... He says the GPU is nearly 2tflops in theory... nearly = 1.76tflops If in theory can peak "nearly" 2 tflops, except it no more than 1.2-1.5

Also the cpu cores are underclocked and amd + underclock = not a good thing, lots of bottlenecks... That means the gpu will evendually get lots of stuff to do, so the nearly 2 tflops will stay in theory

If am right, each ps4 core will be arround 1.6?

Thats basically what I'm saying. They won't get anywhere near whatever their theoretical peak performance number is. Nintendo, on the other hand, design their systems the way they do so they DO hit their peak performance, or even punch above it in terms of capability. That memory architecture of theirs allows them to use lower end hardware while still performing on par with other higher specced machines.

[Plutonas]

yes... sony and microsoft throw in hardware to make good impressions.. YES they are good... but not that good as in theory.

ps3 in theory was 210 gflops but in reality 36gflops...

So right now we say... OH MY GOODNESS.. WOW AHAH HUYH... 8 CORES... but you dont actually know, what "underclocked AMD cores mean" hehehehehe combined with a "nearly" 2tflops gpu.

Nintendo makes hardware that after some time, they use at least the 99% of it. More efficient... The good news are, that all 3 machines, will be GPU centric... So nothing to worry about any of the 3.


Maybe microsoft will look for something more efficient, thats why it looks like less than ps4... this time

Edited by Orion, 24 February 2013 - 12:11 AM.

[Mitch]

.....9001 times more powerful.....

What?!?!?!!?!?!?

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


....Sorry... I couldnt resist

[routerbad]

What?!?!?!!?!?!?

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


....Sorry... I couldnt resist

Agreed.. It had to be done. For the good of the Land

[CUD]

It's like the Vita to the 3DS...Maybe

What?!?!?!!?!?!?

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


....Sorry... I couldnt resist

I would once approve of this but the time has passed.

[Kao]

I think that its going to be 5-10 procent more powerfull! If they include superb specs its gonna be...OVER NINE THOUSAND bucks

[Socalmuscle]

Don't start with me cuz ur gonna lose! And you think I actually know the specs? I took the specs from the analyzed die when that company did it and confirmed its capabilities were in between a 4650-4670, so while it can be a 6xxx card, it was probably downgraded to avoid cost, but maintain software compatibility like Open GL or whatever the hell it's called. AND because its a Graphics Core Next card for PS4, it's likely an 8xxx series because that's what AMD dubbed it. So back off

But while am hating..u were right about the RAM and its bandwidth , HDD, and uSB.

With all the custom silicon, "downgraded" isn't the word...

[routerbad]

Don't start with me cuz ur gonna lose! And you think I actually know the specs? I took the specs from the analyzed die when that company did it and confirmed its capabilities were in between a 4650-4670, so while it can be a 6xxx card, it was probably downgraded to avoid cost, but maintain software compatibility like Open GL or whatever the hell it's called. AND because its a Graphics Core Next card for PS4, it's likely an 8xxx series because that's what AMD dubbed it. So back off

But while am hating..u were right about the RAM and its bandwidth , HDD, and uSB.

They analyzed the die and couldn't come to any solid conclusions. Most of the silicon remains unidentifiable. I don't think they downgraded, I think they cut down on the SIMD engines and put dedicated shaders in there for certain effects that they always wanted available. Different story. And no conclusions have been made, far from it.

AMD released a presser stating that the 8000 series GPU's are delayed until at least Q4 2013. That means they had manufacturing process problems most likely, which would make inclusion in something that needs to be well along in manufacturing impossible. Like I said, it's either a Barts Pro core or a Cape Verde XT in all liklihood.

PS4 specs are:

8 Jaguar Core x86-64 CPU (Tablet CPU)
Radeon HD7870M (M, for mobile platforms, aka Laptops)
8GB DDR5 (most of it will be used by system, for streaming, recording, downloading, etc...)

How large gap is?

Wii U can do everything that PS4 can, but only in 720p.

7870M is only 1.0TFLOPS

[Plutonas]

they also added computing spus... dedicated to do cpu job, such as ps4.... An engineer in ign forums, says 120 spus for computing (in wii U)

Edited by Orion, 24 February 2013 - 01:48 AM.

[Auzzie Wingman]

I think the power gap is a bit funny.

The Wii U was intended to have what is essentially a different approach to how to make games. Apparently, doing what you did for the 360 or PS3 isn't exactly what you'd do to utilise the Wii U. I'm going to assume that 3rd Party developers got on the PS4 bandwagon mostly because it's like developing for the PS3 for the most part.

That said, another way to put it, for me at least, would be to say that the PS4 is like a President, and the Wii U is like a Vice President, except they are in two different governments from each other. For the PS3 and the Wii, it'd be like the PS3 is the President and the Wii is like a secretary, in the same government.

I think the upcoming generation may be more interesting than any before it. It's no longer about how graphically or process powerful you can get. It's not about how much gameplay types you can get. Now, it's about who can excel in every field across the board... as it should be.

[Desert Punk]

The gap between the wii u and ps4 is basically a generational gap. The wii u is comparable to 360/PS3 overall and the ps4 is going to perform like a top end PC does today. It's not top end PC specification mind you but being a console it will be totally optimised for gaming and the hardware can be fully utilised as every ps4 will have the same hardware. Effectively making the performance comparable.

However the wii u provides different game experiences thanks to Nintendo's brilliant game developers and the gamepad touch screen. It really is a different gaming experience.

Not all games will need ps4 performance levels anyway.

Also again while the wii u is about 360/PS3 level overall it has better gpu, more memory but inferior cpu performance. This makes its better for some games and weaker for others. So far wii u vs 360/PS3 normally results in the wii u being the weakest format most of the time. Normally the issue is its weaker on a technical level, could be reduced resolution, lower frame rate, missing graphic features, missing physics engine, more inconsistent frame rate. The idea that somehow the wii u is comparable to ps4 when it is struggling to compete with current gen consoles is ridiculous. Hopefully wii u versions of multiformat titles will become more competitive but there is no getting away from the weak wii u cpu performance.


Metacritic scores

-------------------------------wii u------ps3-------360

mass effect 3 87 93 93
batman 85 96 94
assasins creed 85 86 84
sonic transformed 78 82 82
tekken 83 82 83
fifa soccer 13 69 88 90
epic mickey 2 56 59 59
cod black ops 2 81 83 83
madden 75 83 81
nba 86 90 88
darksiders II 85 84 83
Average 79 84 84

[Hunter]

Metacritic scores

-------------------------------wii u------ps3-------360

mass effect 3 87 93 93
batman 85 96 94
assasins creed 85 86 84
sonic transformed 78 82 82
tekken 83 82 83
fifa soccer 13 69 88 90
epic mickey 2 56 59 59
cod black ops 2 81 83 83
madden 75 83 81
nba 86 90 88
darksiders II 85 84 83
Average 79 84 84

But most of these are just bad, lazy ports. These scores dont reflect the Wii U's performance levels.

[KarlMarx1818]

Isn't the real question whether the gap in power is significant enough to prevent PS4/Xbox720 to Wii ports.

The Wii couldn't run full versions of COD, Fifa etc due to the power gap.

Whatever becomes the developer standard we have to hope the Wii U is capable of handling it. The Xbox 360 was the developers choice as the PS3 was a pain so much of that power was wasted.

If the cap is bridgeable and the Wii U has a installed consumer base by the time PS4 and Xbox720 are launched it'll be viable business model for 3rd party developers to port to it.

But most of these are just bad, lazy ports. These scores dont reflect the Wii U's performance levels.

True, it doesn't reflect that the reviewers had already played to games on the other systems and would have taken into account any lack of extras.

[SoldMyWiiU]

It's not as powerfull as people make it out to be, but it is a little stronger than the wii u

that's all you really need to know.

[The Lonely Koopa]

Thought I will bring this up the ps4 version of Unreal Engine 4 demo was significantly downgraded compaired to the pc demo a year ago.

[binx]

Look at the difference in memory alone DDR3 vs GDDR5. You gave 1gb for the U that is usuable outside of the OS. The PS4 lets say will use 2gb for OS and 6gb out side of that, Hypothetically. I know I am getting away from things but the difference in data transfer speed and bandwidth from DDR to GDDR is doubled. DDR3 is very antiquated for memory, try to buy some if you dont believe me. Hence the reason the OS is slow. Some games will look really good, ie, first party as usual. But for the time being I have better looking games on my Ipad and my S3 really. I know the controls arent there on touch screen and the Wii U you can play off screen. But then why would I have a console if I wanted to play on a portable or a controller. I want to use my 55" 3d TV, not a subpar screen the size of a napkin. The controller is a gimmick and detracts from any real immersion in gameplay and makes it tedious to play games when having to look away all the time. The difference between the two will be noticable, not in the eye bleeding roughness that is the Wii vs xbox/ps3, but in an aliens colonial marines vs crysis 2 on pc way. Nintendo has already lost third parties, games have been delayed or cancelled. Look at rayman, Ubisoft had so little faith in them, they made versions for the 360/ps3 to sell the game. When their main third party supporter doesnt have confidence to ship a game seperate from other platforms it doest look to good. At this point they could say it has a GTX 8million and a 40 core CPU and developers wouldnt take notice. A damn shame. Nintendos platform is seen a cell phone console, cheap mini games and ports. Look at the trade value right now gamestop is giving the same for the Wii U deluxe as a ps3, my ps3 is 6 years old?!

[Arkhandar]

Not counting with the huge amount of fixed function logic present in the Wii U GPU, we're looking at a raw power of at least 325 GFLOPS.

The PS4 GPU has been confirmed to have a total of 1.84 TFLOPS of raw GPU power.

So, judging be the GPU alone we're looking at a relatively big difference, but it isn't by far, a "quantum leap" like Sony's advertising.

In a worst case scenario, the PS4 is 5x more powerful than the Wii U. This means that a PS4 game running in 1080p@60fps could equally run on a Wii U in 720p@30fps.

For comparison, the PS3 and Xbox360 were 20x more powerful than the original Wii, so we're definitely not looking at a last generation situation here.

Then again, none of this matters if there's no good games on either consoles. Because it all comes down to this, good games.

[tboss]

The gap between the wii u and ps4 is basically a generational gap. The wii u is comparable to 360/PS3 overall and the ps4 is going to perform like a top end PC does today. It's not top end PC specification mind you but being a console it will be totally optimised for gaming and the hardware can be fully utilised as every ps4 will have the same hardware. Effectively making the performance comparable.

However the wii u provides different game experiences thanks to Nintendo's brilliant game developers and the gamepad touch screen. It really is a different gaming experience.

Not all games will need ps4 performance levels anyway.

Also again while the wii u is about 360/PS3 level overall it has better gpu, more memory but inferior cpu performance. This makes its better for some games and weaker for others. So far wii u vs 360/PS3 normally results in the wii u being the weakest format most of the time. Normally the issue is its weaker on a technical level, could be reduced resolution, lower frame rate, missing graphic features, missing physics engine, more inconsistent frame rate. The idea that somehow the wii u is comparable to ps4 when it is struggling to compete with current gen consoles is ridiculous. Hopefully wii u versions of multiformat titles will become more competitive but there is no getting away from the weak wii u cpu performance.


Metacritic scores

-------------------------------wii u------ps3-------360

mass effect 3 87 93 93
batman 85 96 94
assasins creed 85 86 84
sonic transformed 78 82 82
tekken 83 82 83
fifa soccer 13 69 88 90
epic mickey 2 56 59 59
cod black ops 2 81 83 83
madden 75 83 81
nba 86 90 88
darksiders II 85 84 83
Average 79 84 84

BO2 on wiiU was rankedlower than PS3, PS3 had major problems like freezing(alot more than wiiU, worst graphics quality(traded partialy for framerate), and similar). ME3 also ran better than PS3 version =/ only issue i see for that is PS3 had ME2. but i will admit the ports were watered down.

gameplay wise id expect ruffly even. raw power PS4 wins. effieceincy wiiU wins. noticeable improvement would look like 1.2-2.0 times. framerate and 1080/720p is a minor change.

id expect ports only real difference is PS4 having more detail, poorly/moderitly funded ports will probly have very little difference(it costs alot for manpower to put all the high quality textures and stuff in.)

[KarlMarx1818]

The gap between the wii u and ps4 is basically a generational gap. The wii u is comparable to 360/PS3 overall and the ps4 is going to perform like a top end PC does today. It's not top end PC specification mind you but being a console it will be totally optimised for gaming and the hardware can be fully utilised as every ps4 will have the same hardware. Effectively making the performance comparable.

Interestingly Need For Speed Most Wanted's developers has said that the Wii U version will be using the PC version's textures. Suggest that when properly ported the Wii U is more powerful than we thought.

[MorbidGod]

Based on what I've seen, studied, calculated, etc...and got that its 37x better...lol, so I decided to take all of the data from that and compared it here:

http://www.hwcompare.com/11373/radeon-hd-4650-512mb-vs-radeon-hd-7970/

It could vary a little bit because the PS4 will likely have the Radeon 8970 because its supposed to have the next best radeon series card, and I gave the Wii U's card a 4650 with 512 MB just to split the RAM between the GPU and CPU evenly, however there's a difference between VRAM and regular RAM, so it's not exact.

After that i tested again myself and got a similar result.

Based on the link and my evaluations, the PS4 is roughly 6-7x more powerful...and considering that both GPU's are more advanced than it was back in the Xbox and PS3 was like 50x more powerful than Wii, this is actually a pretty big jump. I honestly think now that Nintendo should be worried.

The latest info states an APU based off AMD A8, which is not meant to be the best of the best. Of course, an A8 is not what is in the PS4. However knowing that, and my best guess is the Wii U has a Radeon HD 5xxx Series, later or an early HD 6xxx Series.

I do agree the PS4 is between 4 to 7 times more powerful, but I don't know if that extra power will lead to graphics that will blow the Wii U away.