63 replies to this topic

[Penguin101]

What games have Climax done before? Any idea?

If Bayoneta 2 is bigger - as they put it - it will be visually impressive, but i don`t think it is meant to be as wide as X.

 

Climax did Silent Hill Origins and Shattered Memories as well as a Serious Sam, they're going to be doing a new next gen only Prince of Persia game as well as an Untitled Project, again next gen only. And yes it's running on Wii U as it IS a next gen console and Climax are treating it like one. Both games look amazing too!

[routerbad]

Well, Wii U will never have "next-gen" graphics, simply put.

Although I think Monolith will make the best-looking game.

"Next Gen Graphics" in the context in which you used the term, is a misnomer, a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

All of the "next gen" systems (8th generation, read 'em and weep) will be capable of handling the same graphics engines, the same rendering techniques, and at pretty much the same level of fidelity.

 

Also, Wii U, being a next gen console, will define what "next gen" graphics are for the years to come.  All of the "next gen" consoles will to some degree.  Wii, grossly outpowered by its generational counterparts, still performed some "next gen" techniques better than both when it was released, namely tessellation.

 

Next gen isn't defined by FLOPS, RAM, GHz or what a particular game looks like.  It is defined by the time of release.  Now, we all know the PS4 and 720 to be more powerful than the Wii U, can't argue there.  There have always been more powerful and less powerful systems in every generation.  The difference will be very minute, and early on in the gen the disparity will be largely unused, and later, unnoticed.

 

I get the confusion, Nintendo themselves claimed they could "skip a generation" because they went past 32bit graphics and straight to 64bit, but that didn't exactly work out for them.  Similarly, Sony believed PS3 would skip a generation and be sustainable for 10 years, based on the power profile of the console (behind the scenes based on the ridiculous losses they were taking on the hardware and their inability to forsee releasing another console in less than a decade) but that didn't work out for them either.  

 

Graphically the 360 and the PS3 are drastically outperformed by their PC counterparts, but the graphics on those systems are "good enough" representations to continue to wow people.  Wii U is considerably more powerful than those systems, with much more advanced features, using modern design principles.  There won't be the fidelity gulf we were witness to between the HD twins and the Wii, it will be very close, very very close.  The law of diminishing returns is a hard one to break, and PC's have been feeling the burn for quite some time.  Simply adding more of the same doesn't necessarily cut it anymore, more polygons will largely go unnoticed.  All three of the new consoles have support for some very nifty rendering techniques, and all will come with plenty of memory to give creators free reign to make large, immersive game worlds.  

[DéliopT]

Climax did Silent Hill Origins and Shattered Memories as well as a Serious Sam, they're going to be doing a new next gen only Prince of Persia game as well as an Untitled Project, again next gen only. And yes it's running on Wii U as it IS a next gen console and Climax are treating it like one. Both games look amazing too!

Oh, so they made that Wii Silent Hill game. It looked good!

 

Weren`t those Prince of Persia shots from a project they did for someone else? I`m pretty sure i read that they weren`t going to turn it into a game.

[routerbad]

Eh, no one really knows for sure yet I suppose, since the other consoles haven't even come out yet. Although if PS4 and 720 don't have better looking games, I will be genuinnely surprised.

Still, PC is still winning in that department.

I also couldn't care less if I was "schooled" by them. xD

PC is a different beast altogether, the hardware can be changed, replaced, improved, there is no generational limits with PC, only which generation of graphics processor or CPU you have the money to buy.

 

The PS4 and 720 will have games that, well they won't necessarily look better, they will be larger scale, eventually devs will use the extra RAM available, but that will take a considerable amount of time, and when they do, it won't be anything that couldn't have been streamed off disc anyway.

 

Some multiplats will undoubtedly look better on them though, It just depends on how much effort the developers are going to put into those versions.  Wii U will show that it is very close to parity graphically speaking, though.

[Penguin101]

Oh, so they made that Wii Silent Hill game. It looked good!

 

Weren`t those Prince of Persia shots from a project they did for someone else? I`m pretty sure i read that they weren`t going to turn it into a game.

 

Ah yeah just read a news article, ok well they still have this: http://www.climaxstudios.com/our-games <---check unanounced title screens

 

and a completely new title all ready for PS4, Wii U and 720, and yes Shattered Memories as one of the best looking games on the Wii, so if anyone is going to go the extra yard for Nintendo graphically it's Climax

Edited by Penguin101, 18 April 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I'm thinking all 3.

[TheUltimateWaddleDee]

This is a really hard question, because they all excel in different areas: Monolith is going to make a beautiful open world game in which you can literally go anywhere, Platinum Games is about creating flashy, stylized games, Retro doesn't make games, they create art, and Climax is the first third party developer not on the indie scene to treat the Wii U as a next gen system.

Edited by TheUltimateWaddleDee, 18 April 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Half]

PC is a different beast altogether, the hardware can be changed, replaced, improved, there is no generational limits with PC, only which generation of graphics processor or CPU you have the money to buy.

 

The PS4 and 720 will have games that, well they won't necessarily look better, they will be larger scale, eventually devs will use the extra RAM available, but that will take a considerable amount of time, and when they do, it won't be anything that couldn't have been streamed off disc anyway.

 

Some multiplats will undoubtedly look better on them though, It just depends on how much effort the developers are going to put into those versions.  Wii U will show that it is very close to parity graphically speaking, though.

I read your previous post too. FIrst of all, I just meant as in, when the PS4 and 720 are released and their "next gen" graphics based games come out, the Wii U won't be up to par with them, but I do know that generation of consoles are recorded in release, so the Wii U is next-gen, which is why I said "Next-Gen Graphics"

I'm not an expert, but I have common-sense. I was also counting the PC as the max it can be achieved right now, not what can be achieved in the future.

But does it really matter? The Wii U has it's pros and cons, and so does every other console and even PC does (Some games don't actually work, even some newer steam games don't, even on super power PCs) I do hate console wars though, but no one will truly know the truth until the end of all the consoles lifes I suppose.

Also, penguin101 was right, I got schooled by both of you. xD You, you're informative, fair, and nice and smarter than me. The other guy... not so much.

 

[Penguin101]

Also, penguin101 was right,

 

Now all I need to do is get my fiancee to say that I was right and my life is complete 

[routerbad]

I read your previous post too. FIrst of all, I just meant as in, when the PS4 and 720 are released and their "next gen" graphics based games come out, the Wii U won't be up to par with them, but I do know that generation of consoles are recorded in release, so the Wii U is next-gen, which is why I said "Next-Gen Graphics"

I'm not an expert, but I have common-sense. I was also counting the PC as the max it can be achieved right now, not what can be achieved in the future.

But does it really matter? The Wii U has it's pros and cons, and so does every other console and even PC does (Some games don't actually work, even some newer steam games don't, even on super power PCs) I do hate console wars though, but no one will truly know the truth until the end of all the consoles lifes I suppose.

Also, penguin101 was right, I got schooled by both of you. xD You, you're informative, fair, and nice and smarter than me. The other guy... not so much.

 

I can understand your point.  The disparity will not be as great as the power differential would lead you to believe, though.  Mainly because we still don't have a firm grasp on the totality of what the Wii U can do, we only have part of the story.  On top of that, the same rendering effects that will make "next gen" games look great will also work on Wii U, without any issues.  Of course there will be those titles later on that try and go for broke to stress the hardware as much as possible, but we're getting to a point where even doing that doesn't yield better results visually, it only shows how many effects you can stuff into one scene.

 

I feel your pain with the console wars, I've lived through all of them, and have always taken a side, coincidentally.  They serve their purpose, though.  You are correct in asserting that we really don't know until the end of the generation how much difference more powerful hardware will make for the PS4, I posit that it won't be very large.  We all knew what we were getting with Wii.  The hardware was literally a generation behind, and the games showed it.  Many bought that console because something about the Wii mote struck a chord, it was fresh, interesting, fun.  I think that Nintendo is trying to pull something off where they have hardware this time that is competitive technically, but also gives a fresh approach to the control mechanic.

 

As far as "getting schooled".  I don't try to insult anyone's intelligence, unless they make it obvious they have none.  If you had responded with a less thought out post it might have gone a different way, but you didn't.

[DéliopT]

Ah yeah just read a news article, ok well they still have this: http://www.climaxstudios.com/our-games <---check unanounced title screens

 

and a completely new title all ready for PS4, Wii U and 720, and yes Shattered Memories as one of the best looking games on the Wii, so if anyone is going to go the extra yard for Nintendo graphically it's Climax

 

Those screens look really good. Horror game old school?
These dolls shots kinda reminds that old demo for RE4 that never came to be.

 

I actually thought this was the next gen game. If it`s another game, even better!

[Penguin101]

Those screens look really good. Horror game old school?
These dolls shots kinda reminds that old demo for RE4 that never came to be.

 

I actually thought this was the next gen game. If it`s another game, even better!

 

Yup Climax are working on TWO next-gen multiplat games, probably our first indication on the difference between Wii U/PS4/720

 

My guess it's gonna mainly lie in resolution and framerate  and maybe not framerate. I've heard that the PS4 may be able to do 1080p but most games will still run at 30 frames. But it's just a rumor 

Edited by Penguin101, 18 April 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[DéliopT]

Yup Climax are working on TWO next-gen multiplat games, probably our first indication on the difference between Wii U/PS4/720

 

My guess it's gonna mainly lie in resolution and framerate  and maybe not framerate. I've heard that the PS4 may be able to do 1080p but most games will still run at 30 frames. But it's just a rumor 

 

That will depend on which platform will the game be based on.

[Penguin101]

That will depend on which platform will the game be based on.

 

True, I presume they'll work on PS4 first and then downscale everything to 720 and then optimise everything for Wii U and work on gamepad controls. It's easier that way as gamepad controls if done well will take time. Ps4 to 720 you're practically plopping the same code with a few tweaks

Edited by Penguin101, 18 April 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[routerbad]

True, I presume they'll work on PS4 first and then downscale everything to 720 and then optimise everything for Wii U and work on gamepad controls. It's easier that way as gamepad controls if done well will take time. Ps4 to 720 you're practically plopping the same code with a few tweaks

More likely to split work up between the x86 consoles and the Wii U.  They will all use the same textures, physics engines, graphics engines, and in game assets.  They will also most likely keep the resolution the same or similar between platforms, unless there is a technical reason why the Wii U couldn't do 1080p (it can, but depending on the game, it will have performance costs, and a larger framebuffer).  Where I expect to see a difference is with LOD, I expect draw distance to be largely unchanged between versions.

[DéliopT]

True, I presume they'll work on PS4 first and then downscale everything to 720 and then optimise everything for Wii U and work on gamepad controls. It's easier that way as gamepad controls if done well will take time. Ps4 to 720 you're practically plopping the same code with a few tweaks

 

If they don`t have a lot of Money they will probably choose the cheapest option. Which might be the Wii U, seeing as it will probably be the least powerful. That way they can just port and spend just a little to have it looking better on X720 and PS4. Or they can just port it and that`s it.

Overall, i think it will depend on what type of game it is and if they have time and resources for the graphical push.

 

If we look at PS3 and Xbox 360 development, much of that was based on Xbox 360 because devs had more time with it and had a better grip on it.

[Penguin101]

More likely to split work up between the x86 consoles and the Wii U.  They will all use the same textures, physics engines, graphics engines, and in game assets.  They will also most likely keep the resolution the same or similar between platforms, unless there is a technical reason why the Wii U couldn't do 1080p (it can, but depending on the game, it will have performance costs, and a larger framebuffer).  Where I expect to see a difference is with LOD, I expect draw distance to be largely unchanged between versions.

 

 

If they don`t have a lot of Money they will probably choose the cheapest option. Which might be the Wii U, seeing as it will probably be the least powerful. That way they can just port and spend just a little to have it looking better on X720 and PS4. Or they can just port it and that`s it.

Overall, i think it will depend on what type of game it is and if they have time and resources for the graphical push.

 

If we look at PS3 and Xbox 360 development, much of that was based on Xbox 360 because devs had more time with it and had a better grip on it.

 

With the 360 it was because it was pretty much a PC with no foreign architecture. The PS4 and presumably the Xbox this time are not foreign. However I'm unsure about the architecture of the Wii U because I've heard it's a pain for newbies to program on well said the developers of Metro: Last Night who went full silly pony. So I dunno, hard to say

[routerbad]

 

 

With the 360 it was because it was pretty much a PC with no foreign architecture. The PS4 and presumably the Xbox this time are not foreign. However I'm unsure about the architecture of the Wii U because I've heard it's a pain for newbies to program on well said the developers of Metro: Last Night who went full silly pony. So I dunno, hard to say

Heh, speaking more generally to multiplatform development for next gen, rather than specifically about these games.  Watch_Dogs development is being split between x86 and PowerISA architectures, and that makes sense.  I don't see a whole lot of cut downs happening with WiiU on multiplatform games, until the budgets get bloated enough to fill the extra RAM space.  Everything else should be gravy.

[Plutonas]

the creepy doll game reminds me the 6xxx amd gpu tech demo.... 

 

 

the 6xxx series gpu, had this demo, couldnt play with other gpus... I remember I tried it in my nvidia and couldnt start.

Edited by Plutonas, 18 April 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[DéliopT]

 

With the 360 it was because it was pretty much a PC with no foreign architecture. The PS4 and presumably the Xbox this time are not foreign. However I'm unsure about the architecture of the Wii U because I've heard it's a pain for newbies to program on well said the developers of Metro: Last Night who went full silly pony. So I dunno, hard to say

 

They kept developing on Xbox 360 because it was easy to develop and the one year headstart made them more efficient on that. Of course that CELL didn`t help change that.

 

My guess is that for now they will not risk big budgets on smaller platforms and go with they are good at and is less risky.
If they go already for PS4 and X720 development - to actually take advantage of it - it might be a big risk. Specially if it`s a new IP.