73 replies to this topic

[3Dude]

Is it the slightest possibility that Nintendo underclocked them at launch and is just now clocking them back up?

The opposite actually happened. Just it was before launch. The system recieved clock speed upgrades between sdk's 3 and 4.


assuming this actually would happen.

15-30% would be max reasonable boost. Beyond that you will start running into crazy problems, like voltage and timing issues

[Goodtwin]

I do remember hearing from Iwata that power consumption while playing games would be about 40w, and so far we have only seen 32w, so its possible that they could bump performance in an update.  I doubt that is going to happen, but you never know.  The Wii U does run very cool, so for a moddest bump in speed, like 20-30%, the cooling fan and heat sink may be able to handle it just fine.  Perhaps Nintendo needed more time to properly test the longevity of the parts at higher speeds.  Again, I wouldnt say this is very likely, but if it does end up being true we should be able to confirm it by measuring power consumption. 

[routerbad]

The article is complete rubbish, not only would they not have upped the clock speeds to over 3GHz, not because of ability, but because of power usage.

 

What's also rubbish is that "Nintendo didn't use Power7 tech in the WiiU"

 

PPC7XX (doesn't matter what version, gx, fx, lx, anything) never supported SMP AT ALL.  It also had a very weak SIMD engine.  Also backward compatibility is handled by a single core (two cores are locked in Wii mode), and for IBM, making one core code compatible with PowerISA 1.03 would be a very simple matter, and indeed one core has more logic than the other two, as well as more cache.

 

I'm sick of people assuming that Power7 was never used.  They are obviously custom chips and IBM themselves have said that not only did Nintendo license Power7, but that the chip was built based on Power7.

 

If it was just an improved PPC7XX, it would not be capable of SMP, among other things, and would not have been clocked over 1GHz, it would have been possible, but not practical, as PPC7XX lacked stability over 1GHz.

 

I would also like to add that Power6, which their source claims was used for the Wii U CPU, did not support OOE at all, and was heavily reliant on clock speed to make up for that, which would have made it impossible to have a CPU clocked at 1.25GHz "puch way above its weight"

Edited by routerbad, 10 May 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[3Dude]

The article is complete rubbish, not only would they not have upped the clock speeds to over 3GHz, not because of ability, but because of power usage.
 
What's also rubbish is that "Nintendo didn't use Power7 tech in the WiiU"
 
PPC7XX (doesn't matter what version, gx, fx, lx, anything) never supported SMP AT ALL.  It also had a very weak SIMD engine.  Also backward compatibility is handled by a single core (two cores are locked in Wii mode), and for IBM, making one core code compatible with PowerISA 1.03 would be a very simple matter, and indeed one core has more logic than the other two, as well as more cache.
 
I'm sick of people assuming that Power7 was never used.  They are obviously custom chips and IBM themselves have said that not only did Nintendo license Power7, but that the chip was built based on Power7.
 
If it was just an improved PPC7XX, it would not be capable of SMP, among other things, and would not have been clocked over 1GHz, it would have been possible, but not practical, as PPC7XX lacked stability over 1GHz.

The edram cache is likely the p7 technology they used.

Bussed 6 ways a cell, the stuff acted more like sram, and was the core behind p7's improvements (alongside the massive on die l3), enabling it to effectively compete with processors with twice the transistor density. An incredibly memory stressed design.

[routerbad]

The edram cache is likely the p7 technology they used.

Bussed 6 ways a cell, the stuff acted more like sram, and was the core behind p7's improvements (alongside the massive on die l3), enabling it to effectively compete with processors with twice the transistor density. An incredibly memory stressed design.

One would think they would have had to use P7 design to implement SMP, improve SIMD performance, shorten the pipelines, and drop the process, as well as the obvious memory enhancements.

 

In any case, you could say its a PPC7xx series built like a P7 SMP core.  It doesn't add up exactly on either end, but IBM specialize in custom processors, so IBM would have built it using the latest enhancements and lessons learned from building P7.

[3Dude]

One would think they would have had to use P7 design to implement SMP, improve SIMD performance, shorten the pipelines, and drop the process, as well as the obvious memory enhancements.
 
In any case, you could say its a PPC7xx series built like a P7 SMP core.  It doesn't add up exactly on either end, but IBM specialize in custom processors, so IBM would have built it using the latest enhancements and lessons learned from building P7.

750 pipelines are already shorter than p7's at just 4 stages.

The big problem with having such short pipelines would be gaining practical core coherency. It would need incredibly low latency since they cant hide behind long pipeline stages.

Ibm's advancements in edram technology are what made a smaller, cooler, shorter piped, slower clocked, but more powerful p7 possible. The edram is their lesson learned.

[routerbad]

750 pipelines are already shorter than p7's at just 4 stages.

The big problem with having such short pipelines would be gaining practical core coherency. It would need incredibly low latency since they cant hide behind long pipeline stages.

Ibm's advancements in edram technology are what made a smaller, cooler, shorter piped, slower clocked, but more powerful p7 possible. The edram is their lesson learned.

There are still other things in use in the WiiU that were not available on any version of the PPC7xx.

 

Maybe I'm thinking about it backwards, and the P7 is what it is because it took cues from the PPC7XX series, but to say that P7 tech is not being used in the Wii U is beyond absurd.

[3Dude]

There are still other things in use in the WiiU that were not available on any version of the PPC7xx.
 
Maybe I'm thinking about it backwards, and the P7 is what it is because it took cues from the PPC7XX series, but to say that P7 tech is not being used in the Wii U is beyond absurd.

The edram tech is p7 tech. Its THE p7 tech. Its the most important thing in p7.

[routerbad]

The edram tech is p7 tech. Its THE p7 tech. Its the most important thing in p7.

Oh, I understand that, I was referring back to what was stated by the article.  All of it is absurd.

[Abcdude]

3.24GHz and 800MHz from 1.24GHz and 550MHz.

 

Is that even legal?

[GAMER1984]

Was it ever confirmed that the cpu was 1.24 ghz? Even if this story is rubbish, it still stands that we don't know much about the hardware and half the GPU is a mystery, final dev kits didn't get out until last minute, so 6 months after release we are seeing solid performance increases after update optimizations. I would love to hear a response from Nintendo.
 
We are due another update this summer correct? And I believe that will also increase performance in the OS again?
 
I have answered one of my own questions, "On today's Nintendo Direct stream, president Satoru Iwata announced the Wii U is getting two major firmware updates this year -- one in Spring and one in Summer"
 
So the OS has really improved considerably, and it will get even better in Summer? woohoo!
 
 
Perhaps the reason some of the big hitting games were delayed as well, like Pikimin 3, Wonderful 101... perhaps to take advantage of some increased performance?

No it was never CONFIRMED. 3dude and other has vouched for this guy saying he is the real deal and he isn't to be questioned.... I hope that's good for you guys. It's not for me because one person just can't do it for me. Think about this the Wii U has been out 6 months and with all the tech sites, professionals, and hackers out there NO ONE has come out and said yeah I ran test and I can back up what he is saying. He didn't even post a pic of his findings or anything. So for "ME" I'm still waiting on the actual numbers to be confirmed by multiple sources not just one hacker.

[3Dude]

No it was never CONFIRMED. 3dude and other has vouched for this guy saying he is the real deal and he isn't to be questioned.... I hope that's good for you guys. It's not for me because one person just can't do it for me. Think about this the Wii U has been out 6 months and with all the tech sites, professionals, and hackers out there NO ONE has come out and said yeah I ran test and I can back up what he is saying. He didn't even post a pic of his findings or anything. So for "ME" I'm still waiting on the actual numbers to be confirmed by multiple sources not just one hacker.

Fail overflow is a group of around 30 people. They have native wii u mode hacked, as well as wii mode. They arent a single entity, even though matcan is the most popular one because was found.

They arent releasing anything because theyve decided their just isnt enough interest in homebrewing anymore beyond pirates, whom they hate.

They have no plans to release any homebrew on wii u until they feel their is interest for it.

That being said, there are things they can and cant tell from their end with the resources available to them (reverse engineering). Clock speed is one of the things they can indeed determine from their end, with 100% accuracy.

There is no reason to assume they are mostaken or lying being they have been spot on with multiple system hacks over the years. Every. single. time.

[GAMER1984]

Fail overflow is a group of around 30 people. They have native wii u mode hacked, as well as wii mode. They arent a single entity, even though matcan is the most popular one because was found.
They arent releasing anything because theyve decided their just isnt enough interest in homebrewing anymore beyond pirates, whom they hate.
They have no plans to release any homebrew on wii u until they feel their is interest for it.
That being said, there are things they can and cant tell from their end with the resources available to them (reverse engineering). Clock speed is one of the things they can indeed determine from their end, with 100% accuracy.
There is no reason to assume they are mostaken or lying being they have been spot on with multiple system hacks over the years. Every. single. time.

Just saying 6 months and no other community, tech site or anything has the ability to run and confirm. I just don't believe it.... I reserve judgement.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

absolute rubbish, lets stop this before it even starts.

I would hope. Because that would screw up development 0_0

[3Dude]

Just saying 6 months and no other community, tech site or anything has the ability to run and confirm. I just don't believe it.... I reserve judgement.

Its been over 13 years since they hacked the cube, and over seven since they hacked the wii and ps3, and no other group has ran and confirmed what they did with any of those.

But sure, they were 100% legit with cube wii and ps3, but are completely lying and incompetent with wii u.

Whatever keeps the unrealistic fanboy dream torch alight.

[Goodtwin]

Well since Marcan was able to hack the clock speeds originally, he should be able to do it again and see if there is any truth to these rumours.  Anyone know where these rumours originated?  If it was VGleaks, they do have a decent track record of legit info. 

[3Dude]

Well since Marcan was able to hack the clock speeds originally, he should be able to do it again and see if there is any truth to these rumours.  Anyone know where these rumours originated?  If it was VGleaks, they do have a decent track record of legit info. 

[GAMER1984]

Its been over 13 years since they hacked the cube, and over seven since they hacked the wii and ps3, and no other group has ran and confirmed what they did with any of those.
But sure, they were 100% legit with cube wii and ps3, but are completely lying and incompetent with wii u.
Whatever keeps the unrealistic fanboy dream torch alight.

We will see

Edited by GAMER1984, 10 May 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[3Dude]

No, vgleaks was originally way off.

The real clock speed came from marcans twitter.

He has the core clock speed and multiplier of both wii mode (243*3) and wii u native mode (248*5)

[Desert Punk]

If you take the phone, laptop or handheld console approach to clock speeds then in theory this could happen and there is no reason to believe its not possible.

 

This of course doesn't mean the processor is suddenly 3.24ghz its more likely to be unlocked so that under peak load it can scale to 3.24ghz for games that use this feature. 

 

It's a really good feature to have (if it exists) as you effectively run the console at slow speeds unless you need the extra power. Portable devices do this clearly to save power and sometimes to reduce heat output due to the more difficult cooling of laptops for example.

 

Its a fantastic feature if the wii u has this and I suggested it as possibility many, many months ago when the 1.24ghz clock speed was announced. Mainly because it was just to hard to believe at the time that the wii u would be limited to 1.24ghz and I guess I was clutching at straws hoping that the wii u had power in reserve.

 

There are other factors though and we know the bandwidth of the memory chips is quite low and Nintendo went for the value end of the market so to speak. There is little point stressing the gpu and cpu at higher speeds if you simply haven't got the memory bandwidth to cope with it, the cache can only cache so much.

 

I really hope this is true. Every wii u game that comes out that either matches or underperforms compared to 360 and PS3 is killing it. Yes there are many that bought the wii u for Nintendo's amazing games but others are looking for a good all round console. There is no technical reason why this speed unrestrictor isn't true but that doesn't mean it is and even if true other parts of the wii u may limit what can be achieved at these higher speeds. Nintendo may know that these increased speeds will stress the console more but with the current sales figures is perhaps desperate to try anything that might help.

 

We will be able to validate this when later games arrive that make use of this speed increase as power consumption will spike.

 

Also no reason to believe that even if 3.24ghz has been unlocked for future use, the default speed now hasn't been raised slightly from 1.24ghz to perhaps 1.6ghz for example (wishful thinking).

 

Alternatively the speed increase seen is just down to simple optimisation of code ( far more likely unfortunately)