52 replies to this topic

[Mewbot]

I'm just glad it's 60fps, for a game with that much going on it's really important.

http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

[GAMER1984]

well seeing as the gameplay footage we saw was from a game that at that point about 9 months away we can expect even better. To me that boss fight on the building proves Wii U is more advanced than ps360 and has a VERY capable CPU/GPU. its def next gen its just sad no 3rd party developers gets the hardware enough to show it.

[Nollog]

720p

[GAMER1984]

720p

 

 

yeah I think it pretty much accepted that Wii U is a 720p 60FPS machine and there is nothing wrong with that. AS long as the actual quality of the games visuals, as far as textures and such are better than last gen.

[SailtheSeas]

I was one of the first people on any site to suggest it would. Most people just have such a negative outlook on Wii U hardware they dont think its capable to have a game on that level running that smooth plus 1080p. i think it is possible and is going to happen. Time will tell though.

 

The Wii U has more 1080p 60fps games then the Xbox One. 

well seeing as the gameplay footage we saw was from a game that at that point about 9 months away we can expect even better. To me that boss fight on the building proves Wii U is more advanced than ps360 and has a VERY capable CPU/GPU. its def next gen its just sad no 3rd party developers gets the hardware enough to show it.

 

Your Ubisoft's, EA's and Activisions are too lazy to sit down and spend months with different architecture, they just want all the devices to be identical so they can do simple inexpensive ports which are guaranteed to see them get a return on their investment. 

 

That's why I like smaller developers like Platinum Games, TT Fusion and Slighty Mad Studios who will spend months with a machine ensuring they understand the architecture, so they can make a great game. 

[Rickhunter7]

720p

Look beeeeautiful!!!

I don't care about the resolution, this looks like it will be a work of art on every frame. Can't wait.

[SailtheSeas]

Look beeeeautiful!!!

I don't care about the resolution, this looks like it will be a work of art on every frame. Can't wait.

 

I concur, it looks very, very impressive.

[Scumbag]

Another article on Wii U's mysterious hardware, a possible answer for Wii U ease of hitting 1080p 60fps. Between DDR3 an edram, 563.2GB/s bandwidth anyone?

 

http://www.cinemable...ught-62437.html

[megafenix]

not sure, but we have two differnt reports saying it looks so gurgerous, stunning and sharp that they think it should be 1080p

 

then again ther ere other ways of achieving a game to have a stunning and sharp look than just resolution. Some time ago shinen said that had the nano assault running at 1080p but that the resolution didnt give the result they desired and felt that 720p+postfx+materials+ antialaising+anisotropic filttering+etc

 

http://www.notenough...he-wii-u-power/

 

 

"

Neo’s resolution is 720p. Why is it not 1080p? Beside, we’ve witnessed jaggies and seemingly a lack of anti-aliasing in some other games footage, can you reassure us on the image quality of your title? With its more up-to-date GPU and other factors such as cache amount, the Wii U should be pretty capable in this area.

Nano Assault Neo is running in 720p yes. We had the game also running in 1080p but the difference was not distinguishable when playing. Therefore we used 720p and put the free GPU cycles into higher resolution post-Fx. This was much more visible. 

We can’t detail the Wii U graphics chip, but any modern GPU supports various anti-aliasing modes with the usual Pros and Cons. Many GPUs have a certain amount of AA even for ‘free’ when rendering. Usage of these modes depends on your rendering style (like forward or deferred) and other implementation details.

Nano Assault Neo is running in 720p yes. We had the game also running in 1080p but the difference was not distinguishable when playing. Therefore we used 720p and put the free GPU cycles into higher resolution post-Fx. This was much more visible. If we had a project with less quick motions we would have gone 1080p instead i guess.

It’s not a problem to make beautiful 1080p games on the Wii U. As on any console or PC such titles need ~200% more fill rate than 720p. You can use this power either for 1080p rendering or for more particles, better post-Fx, better materials, etc.

"

 

So taking this into consideration, maybe bayo is 720p with the confirmed steady 60fps and materials and filters that make it look sharp and stunning

 

 

for Dry Bones

I have read the article and sounds about right, the sources seem legitimate and also the math works perfectly well for both xbox 360 and wii u edram bandwidth

 

4macros*1024bits*500mhz/(8bits*1000)=256GB/s

 

we can see that the wii u edram on the chipworks photo that is made of 8 macros so

 

8macros*1024bits*550mhz/(8bits*1000)=563.2GB/s

 

the ones who made the wii u edram are the same who made the xbox 360 edram, plus that technology was 7 years old before the wii u was finalyzed so obviously there has been anave,  upgrade in the technology, the guy is even supposing the least it should have, e meaning 1024bits per macro could not be the max but maybe something like 2048bits per meacro for nowdays, not to mention that sony was aiming for more thana terabyte of bandwidth with edram so this comes as no surprise. We also have comments from renesas(fused with nec) that the wii u edram is using the best technology from tha plant from NEC at the point that making it elsewhere would prove a challenge, and also have shinen multimedia quotes saying that wii u edram has a huge bandwidth

 

the big difference is that only the xbox 360 ROPS(RENDER OUTPUT UNIT) had full access to the edram bandwidth since both were in the same silicon die chip, while the gpu itself was in another die chip and therefore was limited to a communication of 32GB/s of bandwidth with the edram, but sicne the edram+rops only purpose was framebuffer that didnt hurt its purpose

 

As for the wii u, both the gpu and the edram are in the same die silicon chip, mening that the whole gpu and not just the ROPS have full access to the edram bandwidth, so the edram can also be used for textures, vertex texture fetch data and other stuff

 

 

 

just hope someone contacts that bob paterson soon

 

 

 

I 

Edited by megafenix, 25 February 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[Alex Atkin UK]

I honestly don't know why every modern console game doesn't do that (including the Wii U Menu, which sadly only runs at native 720p).

 

I'm guessing its down to a 1080p frame buffer still being a tradeoff (especially on Wii U/Xbox One with limited dedicated RAM) compared to a 720p frame buffer.  It may be better to just save some of that RAM for effects.

[Nollog]

Another article on Wii U's mysterious hardware, a possible answer for Wii U ease of hitting 1080p 60fps. Between DDR3 an edram, 563.2GB/s bandwidth anyone?
 
http://www.cinemable...ught-62437.html

The article is discussed elsewhere in the forum.
It's based on assumptions that 2011 tech > 2004 tech in specific ways which should not be assumed.

[megafenix]

The article is discussed elsewhere in the forum.
It's based on assumptions that 2011 tech > 2004 tech in specific ways which should not be assumed.

well, even if assumtion the data and sources are clear

both the 360 edram and the wii u edram were made by NEC, so obviously after so many years and firmation before the wii u final hardware nintendo had access to a more refined edram technology, so f 360 edram had 1024bits per macro why wouldnt wii u?

 

also we have confirmation directly from renesas(now fused with NEC and known just as renesa) that the wii u edram is eing manufactured at the NEC plant using the best technology they have available making the prduction elsewhere difficult, and also we have comments from shinen saying that the wii u edram has huge bandwidth, so dont see the assumption there, just that the guy assumes 1024bits when for now days could be d already sony confirmed that was aiming for more thana  terabyte of bandwidth with edram, so why 563GB/s is unbeleiveable?

 

mix all and you see that the assumption is clear and straight forward, just that its assumming the lowest profile possible, when aftr years of refinement could be more

[Nollog]

well, even if assumtion the data and sources are clear
both the 360 edram and the wii u edram were made by NEC, so obviously after so many years and firmation before the wii u final hardware nintendo had access to a more refined edram technology, so f 360 edram had 1024bits per macro why wouldnt wii u?
 
also we have confirmation directly from renesas(now fused with NEC and known just as renesa) that the wii u edram is eing manufactured at the NEC plant using the best technology they have available making the prduction elsewhere difficult, and also we have comments from shinen saying that the wii u edram has huge bandwidth, so dont see the assumption there, just that the guy assumes 1024bits when for now days could be d already sony confirmed that was aiming for more thana  terabyte of bandwidth with edram, so why 563GB/s is unbeleiveable?
 
mix all and you see that the assumption is clear and straight forward, just that its assumming the lowest profile possible, when aftr years of refinement could be more

The i3 was made after the i7
... So why isn't the i3 out-performing the earlier versions of the i7?
This is how easily their wild not good asinine assumptions can be disproven.

[megafenix]

The i3 was made after the i7
... So why isn't the i3 out-performing the earlier versions of the i7?
This is how easily their wild not good asinine assumptions can be disproven.

yes but not in this case

have you forgotten?

renesas already said that they are using the best technology available for the wii u edram, plus it uses 45nm not 90nm so you can even fit more

each new generation nec always was improving the bus width and other things, you can see that on internet, thpe gamecube was 16bit per macro at 180nm, then the edram at 130nm was 128bits bus per macro, etc

 

the bus is kind of liek the mhz, they always increase each new generation, we are not talking about a processor but a memory

 

and is not just renesas(fused with nec) it also developers who say that hey dont have bandwidth problems with wii u and also shinen who said that wii u edram has huge bandwidth

 

come one, if the xbox 360 requires 10 MB for the 720p and wii u requires only 7MB, then shich one packs more bandwidth?

this is a fact, not an assumption

Edited by megafenix, 25 February 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[Nollog]

yes but not in this case
have you forgotten?
renesas already said that they are using the best technology available for the wii u edram, plus it uses 45nm not 90nm so you can even fit more
each new generation nec always was improving the bus width and other things, you can see that on internet, thpe gamecube was 16bit per macro at 180nm, then the edram at 130nm was 128bits bus per macro, etc
 
the bus is kind of liek the mhz, they always increase each new generation, we are not talking about a processor but a memory
 
and is not just renesas(fused with nec) it also developers who say that hey dont have bandwidth problems with wii u and also shinen who said that wii u edram has huge bandwidth
 
come one, if the xbox 360 requires 10 MB for the 720p and wii u requires only 7MB, then shich one packs more bandwidth?
this is a fact, not an assumption

I just wouldn't "report" an assumption as a fact.

[megafenix]

I just wouldn't "report" an assumption as a fact

and is not what you said about the possibility of the new edram performing even less than the old design an assumption?

 

i wouldnt say anything before having data to prve something

 

here

http://hdwarriors.co...ined-by-shinen/

 

"

‘Wii U eDRAM usage is comparable to the eDRAM in the XBOX360, but on Wii U you have enough eDRAM to use it for 1080p rendering.

In comparison, on XBOX360 you usually had to render in sub 720p resolutions or in mutliple passes.

Even if you don’t use MSAA (MultiSample Anti-Aliasing) you already need around 16Mb just for a 1080p framebuffer (with double buffering). You simply don’t have that with XBOX360 eDRAM. As far as I know Microsoft corrected that issue and put also 32MB of Fast Ram into their new console.

 

"

 

since 1080p requires about 16MB for wii u, how much you need for 720p with doube buffering?

About 7MB

 

is that less than 10MB?

yes

 

does xbox 360 require the whole 10MB for 720p with doube buffering?

yes, directly confrimation from micro

here

http://msdn.microsof...y/bb464139.aspx

 

"

Predicated Tiling

 

Rate this topic

 

Describes predicated tiling in Xbox 360 development.

The Xbox 360 has 10 MB (10×1024×1024) of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM) that is dedicated for use as the back buffer, depth stencil buffer, and other render targets. Depending on the size and format of the render targets and the antialiasing level, it may not be possible to fit all targets in EDRAM at once. For example, 10 MB of EDRAM is enough to hold two 1280×720 32-bit surfaces with no multisample antialiasing (MSAA) or two 640×480 4× MSAA 32-bit surfaces. However, a 1280×720 2× MSAA 32-bits-per-pixel render target is 7,372,800 bytes. Combined with a 32-bit Z/stencil buffer of the same dimensions, it becomes apparent that 10 MB might not be sufficient.

Predicated tiling allows rendering to larger surfaces than can fit into EDRAM at any one time. In predicated tiling, the screen space is broken up into tiles (rectangles). The following figure shows the screen space broken into two tiles.

 

"

 

Since wii u 7MB are enough for the 720p, then that means that it should provide the same bandwidth or close to the 10MB of the xbox 360 edram for the 720p

 

is that what you call underperforming?

 

i wouldnt call it that way

• Back to top

[Nollog]

and is not what you said about the possibility of the new edram performing even less than the old design an assumption?
 
i wouldnt say anything before having data to prve something
 
here
http://hdwarriors.co...ined-by-shinen/
 
"
‘Wii U eDRAM usage is comparable to the eDRAM in the XBOX360, but on Wii U you have enough eDRAM to use it for 1080p rendering.[/size]
In comparison, on XBOX360 you usually had to render in sub 720p resolutions or in mutliple passes.[/size]
Even if you don’t use MSAA[/size] (MultiSample Anti-Aliasing) [/size]you[/size] already need around 16Mb just for a 1080p framebuffer (with double buffering). You simply don’t have that with XBOX360 eDRAM. As far as I know Microsoft corrected that issue and put also 32MB of Fast Ram into their new console.[/size]
 
"
 
since 1080p requires about 16MB for wii u, how much you need for 720p with doube buffering?
About 7MB
 
is that less than 10MB?
yes
 
does xbox 360 require the whole 10MB for 720p with doube buffering?
yes, directly confrimation from micro
here
http://msdn.microsof...y/bb464139.aspx
 
"
Predicated Tiling

 


Other Versions



 
0 out of 1 rated this helpful - Rate this topic

 

Describes predicated tiling in Xbox 360 development.
The Xbox 360 has 10 MB (10×1024×1024) of fast embedded dynamic RAM (EDRAM) that is dedicated for use as the back buffer, depth stencil buffer, and other render targets. Depending on the size and format of the render targets and the antialiasing level, it may not be possible to fit all targets in EDRAM at once. For example, 10 MB of EDRAM is enough to hold two 1280×720 32-bit surfaces with no multisample antialiasing (MSAA) or two 640×480 4× MSAA 32-bit surfaces. However, a 1280×720 2× MSAA 32-bits-per-pixel render target is 7,372,800 bytes. Combined with a 32-bit Z/stencil buffer of the same dimensions, it becomes apparent that 10 MB might not be sufficient.
Predicated tiling allows rendering to larger surfaces than can fit into EDRAM at any one time. In predicated tiling, the screen space is broken up into tiles (rectangles). The following figure shows the screen space broken into two tiles.


 
"
 
Since wii u 7MB are enough for the 720p, then that means that it should provide the same bandwidth or close to the 10MB of the xbox 360 edram for the 720p
 
is that what you call underperforming?
 
i wouldnt call it that way

No it isn't.
Because me not saying anything isn't an assumption, it's me saying nothing.

And it's obviously more powerful than a last generation console.
The only people who would question that are not good.

[NintendoReport]

[Raiden]

Oh golly look who's back to vomit bullhonkey.

 

Well...this thread is destroyed so bye bye..

[Mahmoodinho98]

as far as i know Wii U is technologically more advanced than last gen consoles,i even think that its more advanced than this gen consoles.

as you know Both Wii U CPU and GPU are very very efficient allowing them to do more per cycle and thus provide 1080p 60fps gameplay.