98 replies to this topic

[Nollog]

You really think you would be able to see that detail through that horrible video feed?

Whatever footage you have thats that clean, please send it my way, because I havent been able to find ANYTHING thats not a blurry, lossy mess. I LITERALLY cant see the textures behind that video. Its really, really, bad video, and the character models dont get anywhere NEAR as close to the camera as they did in earlier trailers, even in the very first trailer, the character model is very often a good 20 feet closer to the camera, and even closer a bit of the time, AND it is a much MUCH better video feed.

In order to see any detail through that video feed, the model would need to be REALLY close to the camera.

Trailer 1:
Trailer 2:
Trailer 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnwy8a_CiRw

There's some obvious differences in quality, but as you can see, in trailer 1 and 2 the character model was far more defined than the third trailer.
Google around for better versions yourself.
in fact, gt has them here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/games/4atbrw/xenoblade-sequel/videos-trailers

Edited by Nollog, 26 February 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[3Dude]

Nollog, on 26 Feb 2014 - 4:27 PM, said:
Trailer 1:
Trailer 2:
Trailer 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnwy8a_CiRw

There's some obvious differences in quality, but as you can see, in trailer 1 and 2 the character model was far more defined than the third trailer.
Google around for better versions yourself.
in fact, gt has them here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/games/4atbrw/xenoblade-sequel/videos-trailers

No man.

Im sorry, but that video is WAAAAYYYY to bad to use to make those kinds of judgements. The game could be 20x more detailed than it was before, and you would have no way of telling through that horrendus feed.

And it doesnt matter what site you go to, as they ALL have to use Nintendos provided feed, and unlike the other X trailers, Nintendo never released high quality feed of the uncut gameplay.



This is horrible, I can literally count the chunks. With the combination of the horrible feed, and the increased distance of the character model from the camera compared to the other trailers, there is no way anyone can make any valid judgements from this feed. Its way too far gone.

[Nollog]

The video doesn't need to be clear to see how bad and how regressive the texture model has become on that character.

[3Dude]

The video doesn't need to be clear to see how bad and how regressive the texture model has become on that character.

You practically cant even see the character its so bad. Just look at the screen cap. You can SEE the lossy chunks, they are HUGE. Thats about 10-20 pixels squared of whats supposed to be the unique pixels that make up a texture lost in each chunk.

You cant even BEGIN to talk about textures, when you are looking at a mosiac.

Just look at the UI, those are PERFECTLY clean 2d overlays, and they look like they have had vaseline diareah spread all over them. How the hell do you think you are going to make out the details of a texture, on a 3d model, 10 feet in the distance?

The lossy has grouped all the pixels of a square area together, averaged out the tone and grade, and replaced it with a chunk of all same color. Thats why the 'textures' look like they have gone to crap.

You cant see what is actually going on in that video, not by a mile.

Even in your other videos that have atrocious feeds, but are still clearly of better video quality because they were based off of Nintendos high quality feed released after the direct, once you get that character model that distance out, the compressions destroys all detail.



Nothing has changed. It could be improved a million times, and wed never be able to tell through that video feed unless the character got much closer to the camera.

[NintendoReport]

Are we really saying how texture models from pre-alpha or alpha footage have gotten worse in newer alpha footage?

 

Edited by Sorceror12, 26 February 2014 - 05:19 PM.

[3Dude]

Are we really saying how texture models from pre-alpha or alpha footage have gotten worse in newer alpha footage?

We cant even say that because the released footage is so poor we cant even actually see the textures, just lossy blocks.

[NintendoReport]

We cant even say that because the released footage is so poor we cant even actually see the textures, just lossy blocks.

 

Oh I know, I just find it silly to think that anyone would think the game is going to look worse when it actually goes gold from what we first saw from Jan 2013 and e3. 

[Nollog]

Are we really saying how texture models from pre-alpha or alpha footage have gotten worse in newer alpha footage?

The issue here is that the very first footage, showed a much higher-resolution character model, with much more detail than the latest footage.
It's worrying to me.
My other complaint was the horribly awkward character animations, which can be fixed before release easily, as the game is 2 or 3 years away from release.
 

You practically cant even see the character its so bad. Just look at the screen cap. You can SEE the lossy chunks, they are HUGE. Thats about 10-20 pixels squared of whats supposed to be the unique pixels that make up a texture lost in each chunk.

You cant even BEGIN to talk about textures, when you are looking at a mosiac.

Just look at the UI, those are PERFECTLY clean 2d overlays, and they look like they have had vaseline diareah spread all over them. How the hell do you think you are going to make out the details of a texture, on a 3d model, 10 feet in the distance?

You're saying you can see the UI properly but not the content of the game eh?
Can't be the video source then.

http://www.nollog.net/MyBin/X/
Here are some resources.
Trailer 1:

Trailer 2:


EDIT: I just noticed they have different hair colours, which might explain it.
They're not the same character?!

Edited by Nollog, 26 February 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[Raiden]

All the trailers been a different character. Look at last years E3 one and the dude has long hair.

 

I don't know if it's CAC's or a Final Fantasy Tidus black hair situation.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then for no reason another pic

Edited by Ryudo, 26 February 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[3Dude]

The issue here is that the very first footage, showed a much higher-resolution character model, with much more detail than the latest footage.
It's worrying to me.
My other complaint was the horribly awkward character animations, which can be fixed before release easily, as the game is 2 or 3 years away from release.

You're saying you can see the UI properly but not the content of the game eh?
Can't be the video source then.

http://www.nollog.net/MyBin/X/
Here are some resources.
Trailer 1:

Trailer 2:


EDIT: I just noticed they have different hair colours, which might explain it.
They're not the same character?!

No, Im saying the exact opposite. If even the ui, which is a simple 2d overlay at screen resolution which should be perfectly sharp and crisp, looks like it has been smeared with blocky vaseline diarrea, then there is no way you can see the textures clearly.

And you have just proved the point. The video was of such incredibly poor quality you couldnt even tell they were using a different character... Yet you believed you could notice changes in texture resolution? Not too mention what you are using to compare is so close to the camera, his sword alone is twice the size of the red haired character you were attempting to scrutinize. Of course you cant make out any detail. The whole thing is just silly over analyzing of bad video.

[Nollog]

No, Im saying the exact opposite. If even the ui, which is a simple 2d overlay at screen resolution which should be perfectly sharp and crisp, looks like it has been smeared with blocky vaseline diarrea, then there is no way you can see the textures clearly.

And you have just proved the point. The video was of such incredibly poor quality you couldnt even tell they were using a different character... Yet you believed you could notice changes in texture resolution? Not too mention what you are using to compare is so close to the camera, his sword alone is twice the size of the red haired character you were attempting to scrutinize. Of course you cant make out any detail. The whole thing is just silly over analyzing of bad video.

Or I just never paid attention to the character's hair because the animation was so poor, and the texture of their cloths and arms looked off to me.

[3Dude]

Nollog, on 27 Feb 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:
Or I just never paid attention to the character's hair because the animation was so poor, and the texture of their cloths and arms looked off to me.

Riiiighhhhttttt..... You couldnt see the skyscraper because you were looking at the fly.

The animation is placeholders straight from xenoblade, Specifically several of Dunbans moves. Same skeletons are being used for the rigging. Will likely change once those havok animation experts hired several months ago start exporting more of their work.

As for the textures. Sure. You cant even see a hand, fingers, or a face through through the lossy, but YOU saw a reduction in texture quality.

Riiiiiight. Well why dont you put your money where your mouth is, and when the next video of a decent quality comes out, show everyone that the character models really are faceless and club handed, with textures completely smoothed out, like they went through lossy chunk compression, or admit you had no idea bad heavily compressed video could hide detail, and you just thought the textures got reduced when really it was simply lossy compression for a worldwide streaming video.

[Nollog]

Riiiighhhhttttt..... You couldnt see the skyscraper because you were looking at the fly.

The animation is placeholders straight from xenoblade, Specifically several of Dunbans moves. Same skeletons are being used for the rigging. Will likely change once those havok animation experts hired several months ago start exporting more of their work.

As for the textures. Sure. You cant even see a hand, fingers, or a face through through the lossy, but YOU saw a reduction in texture quality.

Riiiiiight. Well why dont you put your money where your mouth is, and when the next video of a decent quality comes out, show everyone that the character models really are faceless and club handed, with textures completely smoothed out, like they went through lossy chunk compression, or admit you had no idea bad heavily compressed video could hide detail, and you just thought the textures got reduced when really it was simply lossy compression for a worldwide streaming video.

That anaology is pretty flawed.
A skyscraper is larger than a fly, and a fly would be on the skyscraper in your example.
This is the direct opposite of hair on humans.

It'd be more like:
You couldn't see the fly because you were looking at the skyscraper.

[3Dude]

That anaology is pretty flawed.
A skyscraper is larger than a fly, and a fly would be on the skyscraper in your example.
This is the direct opposite of hair on humans.

It'd be more like:
You couldn't see the fly because you were looking at the skyscraper.

Thats for normal people who arent doing what you are doing. The analogy being backwards is the entire point, as you are being backwards and ridiculous, hence the sarcastic 'riiiiiiggggghhhtttt' preceeding the analogy. Of COURSE it would be the BIG thing, you would be able to see through poor visibility conditions, while the SMALL thing, would appear to be missing despite still being there.

Also: The texture is on the character model (skyscraper) you couldnt tell was different, because you were looking at lossy compression thinking it was a texture (the fly).

The fly is still there, you just cant see it anymore because the skyscraper is too far away and your glasses are smeared with vaseline.

[Nollog]

Thats for normal people who arent doing what you are doing. The analogy being backwards is the entire point, as you are being backwards and ridiculous. Of COURSE it would be the BIG thing, you would be able to see through poor visibility conditions, while the SMALL thing, would appear to be missing despite still being there.

Also: The texture is on the character model (skyscraper) you couldnt tell was different, because you were looking at lossy compression thinking it was a texture (the fly).

The fly is still there, you just cant see it anymore because the skyscraper is too far away and your glasses are smeared with vaseline.

I disagree.
Enjoy your 240p game when it comes out.

[Raiden]

I did post more clear pics ya know

[3Dude]

Nollog, on 27 Feb 2014 - 5:38 PM, said:
I disagree.
Enjoy your 240p game when it comes out.

Thats about the effective resolution of that video with the size of those lossy chunks replacing 20-30 pixels squared.

Ryudo, on 27 Feb 2014 - 5:39 PM, said:
I did post more clear pics ya know

Those dont matter because they were taken from the high bit rate, high quality feed released after the nintendo direct. No such feed has been released for the uncut gameplay, only the heavily compressed live webstream.

Nollog thinks the textures have gotton worse, because he thinks the lossy compression artifacts:

(fig D)

Is the actual textures, and is thus under the beleif the textures have been downgraded, when in reality, we cant see the textures because the colors of each frame have been split into chunks, and averaged to save bandwidth.

Or more like thats the act hes pretending to believe. Nollog knows about compression artifacts, hes just being a douche.

[Raiden]

Well I agree. First time I saw a Bayonetta 2 Trailer it looked the same as B1 to me. Then when we got some screens was pretty clear the compression hid all the detail and that the game was miles ahead of B1.

[Law212]

I think the game looks great.