46 replies to this topic

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

what

 

what

Tell me why killing someone is right. I will discuss with you and not be a jerk.

If you're wearing your hoodie all the time, why would it matter if you're black?

Because a hoodie isn't one of those spandex suit, so you can still see peopl's skin?

Also, because if I remember correctly Zimmerman said black person + hoodie = shady.

[Nollog]

Because a hoodie isn't one of those spandex suit, so you can still see peopl's skin?
Also, because if I remember correctly Zimmerman said black person + hoodie = shady.

Every store here has a policy that you're not allowed have your hood up in their stores.
It is shady.
The whole basis of a hoodie being shady is you're trying to hide your face.
If you're hiding your face, how can I tell your face is black?

You might like hoodies for different reasons, but if we're real talking about this subject, that's the issue some people have with that piece of clothing.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Every store here has a policy that you're not allowed have your hood up in their stores.
It is shady.
The whole basis of a hoodie being shady is you're trying to hide your face.
If you're hiding your face, how can I tell your face is black?

You might like hoodies for different reasons, but if we're real talking about this subject, that's the issue some people have with that piece of clothing.

I would think there's a difference between asking people not to wear hoodies in a store and stalking them and shooting them because of it.

But I'm sure you can tell me how wrong I am about that.

[Nollog]

I would think there's a difference between asking people not to wear hoodies in a store and stalking them and shooting them because of it.
But I'm sure you can tell me how wrong I am about that.

I'm sure there's a difference between asking a lady if a seat is taken and raping her on the way home.
But I'm sure you can tell me how wrong I am about that, as a young black teenager.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I'm sure there's a difference between asking a lady if a seat is taken and raping her on the way home.
But I'm sure you can tell me how wrong I am about that, as a young black teenager.

Seriously?

Are you actually serious right now?

I can't even debate that because it makes no sense. It is completely out of context, and is in no way a legitimate response to my comment. I haven't debated so badly since I was a child.

[Nollog]

Seriously?
Are you actually serious right now?
I can't even debate that because it makes no sense. It is completely out of context, and is in no way a legitimate response to my comment. I haven't debated so badly since I was a child.

It's pretty much what you said.
You went and said:
Normal reaction, abnormal reaction.
I simply changed it into another scenario for you to illustrate how delusional you are being.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

It's pretty much what you said.
You went and said:
Normal reaction, abnormal reaction.
I simply changed it into another scenario for you to illustrate how delusional you are being.

Yes, because the abnormal reaction was ZIMMERMAN'S reaction, whcich you were saying was just like a store keeper's NORMAL reaction. You changed the answer to something completely unrelated with no relevancy to the subject.

Have you ever actually debated someone before? How do you not see that?

[Raiden]

I never got very involved with the Martin case. Tho him signing stuff is not very shocking to me esp at a guns convention. Politics aside US does things like this often of putting anyone who has been in the public eye on a pedastal and making them famous for no good reason. Much of it coems from no talent idiots on reality shows and other times stuff like this. It's nothing new. I think my first exposure to this was Joey Buttafuoco.

For those not in the know in the early 90's this guy had an affair with a 16 year old gear named Amy Fisher who shot his wife in the face. She did survive but was disfigured. He was a celeb for a short and I believe accused of being part of the shooting but was only found guilty of having sex with a minor and he has had legal trouble since. I know some have come before him and since but was my first exposure to this kinda crap.

 

Another reason I stay in hiding is US culture often is like nails on a chalkboard.

[Nollog]

Yes, because the abnormal reaction was ZIMMERMAN'S reaction, whcich you were saying was just like a store keeper's NORMAL reaction. You changed the answer to something completely unrelated with no relevancy to the subject.
Have you ever actually debated someone before? How do you not see that?

Don't get racist about it.

I wasn't talking about zimmermon, you were.
Originally, I was talking about how an innocent man was being idolised by people who believe he used his gun-rights to uphold his country's values.
How that innocent man was victimised by the same organisation who asked him to attend as a special guest, due to media pressure.
After this, you proclaimed him guilty of crimes a court found him innocent of, further along the timeline saying you wore a hoodie just like the chap who died.
Talking about how you walk dark streets in your hoodie looking suspicious due to (your version) the colour of your skin, or (my version) wearing a hood over your face.
This was when you said a shopkeeper would ask for your hood to be lowered, while another person might shoot you to protect their country from you.
Questing for sex is of less value than saving your country, but it was just a quick analogy.

[MatrixChicken]

I would really love to hear where you guys get this idea.

Especially since, I kid you not when I say this, I am a black teenager, who was the exact same age as him when he was killed, wears hoodies every single day from september through aprei/may, and walks through a private community pretty much every day to get home.

I quite honestly would love to hear why you think someone could stalk me, shoot and kill me, destroy my family and friends' lives, and get away with it.

 

What I highlighted in bold is, most definitely, a crime punishable by law, at least when taken purely at face value and without context. The problem is, Zimmerman didn't just walk up to Trayvon and shoot him. If I understand the evidence correctly, he followed Trayvon for a ways due to him looking suspicious (I can't remember the exact words). Trayvon then turned around and attacked Zimmerman. To save himself from being beaten to death, Zimmerman shot and killed (I'm not certain if his intent was to kill him or if it was just to injure him) Trayvon. So it all depends on whether you think that shooting someone in self defense is a right that we (human beings) should have. If Trayvon hadn't attacked Zimmerman, he wouldn't be dead, and his family and friends' lives wouldn't be ruined.

 

As for the fact that you're a black teen who wears hoodies while walking home... Why does this matter? If you noticed a cop following you, would you turn around and attack him? Or would you just ask him what was wrong? If the whole case had been turned around and Zimmerman tried to kill Trayvon first and Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman in self defense, I'd be on Trayvon's side.

I would think there's a difference between asking people not to wear hoodies in a store and stalking them and shooting them because of it.

But I'm sure you can tell me how wrong I am about that.

 

Why yes, there is a big difference. The thing is, Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon because he was wearing a hoodie and he was black. He followed because of it, but he only shot him when his life was threatened.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I never got very involved with the Martin case. Tho him signing stuff is not very shocking to me esp at a guns convention. Politics aside US does things like this often of putting anyone who has been in the public eye on a pedastal and making them famous for no good reason. Much of it coems from no talent idiots on reality shows and other times stuff like this. It's nothing new. I think my first exposure to this was Joey Buttafuoco.

For those not in the know in the early 90's this guy had an affair with a 16 year old gear named Amy Fisher who shot his wife in the face. She did survive but was disfigured. He was a celeb for a short and I believe accused of being part of the shooting but was only found guilty of having sex with a minor and he has had legal trouble since. I know some have come before him and since but was my first exposure to this kinda crap.

 

Another reason I stay in hiding is US culture often is like nails on a chalkboard.

 

Zimmerman basically stalked a 15 or 16 year-old black boy weraing a hoodie. He called the police, the police told him to go home ad leave it to them. The boy (Tryavon), who was on the phone with his girlfriend said he knew he was being followed, and stuff. They both hung up, and the next thing anyone knows is from people calling 911. In the background you can hear a voice screaming for help and then gunshots. Police arrive to find Martin dead and Zimmerman with some scratches on his head and arms. He claims he was in "life threatening danger". They go to court, his lawyer throws some ad hominem against Trayvon around and he gets away scott free.

 

Don't get racist about it.

I wasn't talking about zimmermon, you were.
Originally, I was talking about how an innocent man was being idolised by people who believe he used his gun-rights to uphold his country's values.
How that innocent man was victimised by the same organisation who asked him to attend as a special guest, due to media pressure.
After this, you proclaimed him guilty of crimes a court found him innocent of, further along the timeline saying you wore a hoodie just like the chap who died.
Talking about how you walk dark streets in your hoodie looking suspicious due to (your version) the colour of your skin, or (my version) wearing a hood over your face.
This was when you said a shopkeeper would ask for your hood to be lowered, while another person might shoot you to protect their country from you.
Questing for sex is of less value than saving your country, but it was just a quick analogy.

 

1. The thread is about Zimmerman, also, I was talking about Zimmerman when you responded to me, so you suddenly not talking about him is on you not the other way around.

He killed a boy that he was stalking. no matter where you go from there, in pretty much any other civilized country, he would be guilty of something or other. Cool, you know who else was called innocent by the courts? OJ simpson.Also the kid who hit and killed people with his car. The court system is balls. Actually I said apparently being black AND having a hoodie makes you suspicious. In case you didn't realize, that was sarcasm. Both are non-reasons to stalk and shoot someone.

It was a bad analogy because it was comparing an analogy about Zimmerman to one about hoods.

What I highlighted in bold is, most definitely, a crime punishable by law, at least when taken purely at face value and without context. The problem is, Zimmerman didn't just walk up to Trayvon and shoot him. If I understand the evidence correctly, he followed Trayvon for a ways due to him looking suspicious (I can't remember the exact words). Trayvon then turned around and attacked Zimmerman. To save himself from being beaten to death, Zimmerman shot and killed (I'm not certain if his intent was to kill him or if it was just to injure him) Trayvon. So it all depends on whether you think that shooting someone in self defense is a right that we (human beings) should have. If Trayvon hadn't attacked Zimmerman, he wouldn't be dead, and his family and friends' lives wouldn't be ruined.

 

As for the fact that you're a black teen who wears hoodies while walking home... Why does this matter? If you noticed a cop following you, would you turn around and attack him? Or would you just ask him what was wrong? If the whole case had been turned around and Zimmerman tried to kill Trayvon first and Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman in self defense, I'd be on Trayvon's side.

 

Why yes, there is a big difference. The thing is, Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon because he was wearing a hoodie and he was black. He followed because of it, but he only shot him when his life was threatened.

 

He followed Trayvon due to him looking "suspicious" in other words, having a hoodie on, being black, and having his hands in his pocket. Zimmerman claims that Trayvon then attacked him. There's no evidence that's true, either one could have attacked first. I also seem to remember that in his call he could be heard shouting at Zimmerman before he hung up (could be wrong about that). If that's the case, then he most likely had a warning to stop stalking Trayvon which is illegal, especially when the police specifically told him not to do so. Zimmerman claims he was going to be beaten to death. Ever seen the photos?

 

 

I don't know about you, but that doesn't look life threatening to me. Two scratches on the back of the head and one scar on the nose. Really looks like he was taking a beating there /s. I seem to remember there was more than one shot so i'm thinking it was to kill. Actually if Zimmerman hadn't of stalked Trayvon then nothing would have happened.

 It matters because those are the things that were deemed "suspicious", and therefore justified his stalking and eventual killing of trayvon.

If a cop was following me, I probably would do nothing. Confronting him might end up in me being arrested, so I would just pretend not to notice him. If not arrested, shot. Zimmerman however, was not a cop, nor did he look like one. Look at the above pictures. Clearly not a uniform. So if a CITIZEN was following me I would turn, and ask quite angrily they are following me, since I know I have no reason o be followed, just like Trayvon did. Also, because I wouldn't think they would have a gun, and the will to kill a 16 year-old who ways 20 pounds less than them. 

[Nollog]

1. The thread is about Zimmerman, also, I was talking about Zimmerman when you responded to me, so you suddenly not talking about him is on you not the other way around.
He killed a boy that he was stalking. no matter where you go from there, in pretty much any other civilized country, he would be guilty of something or other. Cool, you know who else was called innocent by the courts? OJ simpson.Also the kid who hit and killed people with his car. The court system is balls. Actually I said apparently being black AND having a hoodie makes you suspicious. In case you didn't realize, that was sarcasm. Both are non-reasons to stalk and shoot someone.
It was a bad analogy because it was comparing an analogy about Zimmerman to one about hoods.

The previous American President facilitated an environment where everyone is suspect.
You might be a terrorist trying to crash a plane into a precious building.
Under this pretense, anyone can follow someone home if they don't want their buildings to be crashed into.

Maybe I was comparing Zimmermon to Albert Fish.

What do you expect in a state which legalised self-defense by shooting someone to death soon after 9/11?
Gun nuts want to shoot everyone in your country, so they move to Florida to murder people legally.
Someone looking suspicious is a nice easy target.
Are you still wondering why they idolised him?
I assume that's what you started this about...

[MatrixChicken]

*snip*

 

Okay, I was misinformed. I thought Zimmerman was a cop. I admit he never should have "stalked" Martin, though he was a neighborhood watch. I believe there were witnesses, however, that saw Trayvon beating on Zimmerman. If this isn't the case, then there's no way of knowing whether Zimmerman is innocent or guilty, in which case the "innocent until proven guilty" rule should come into effect, right?

 

Again, Zimmerman didn't kill Martin because he was black and wearing a hoodie, he shot him in self defense because he was being attacked. It is true that, if he hadn't "stalked" him in the first place, none of this would have happened, and yes, he never should have "stalked" him.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Okay, I was misinformed. I thought Zimmerman was a cop. I admit he never should have "stalked" Martin, though he was a neighborhood watch. I believe there were witnesses, however, that saw Trayvon beating on Zimmerman. If this isn't the case, then there's no way of knowing whether Zimmerman is innocent or guilty, in which case the "innocent until proven guilty" rule should come into effect, right?

 

Again, Zimmerman didn't kill Martin because he was black and wearing a hoodie, he shot him in self defense because he was being attacked. It is true that, if he hadn't "stalked" him in the first place, none of this would have happened, and yes, he never should have "stalked" him.

I think there was only one who said he saw trayvon beating Zimmerman. Another said he saw one beating another and that it was trayvon beating zimmerman, but his mother said he was pressured to say so. Zimmerman was definitely guilty of killing Trayvon, that part was never in dispute, and he had no life threatning injuries. As far as I'm concerned, case closed.

The previous American President facilitated an environment where everyone is suspect.
You might be a terrorist trying to crash a plane into a precious building.
Under this pretense, anyone can follow someone home if they don't want their buildings to be crashed into.

Maybe I was comparing Zimmermon to Albert Fish.

What do you expect in a state which legalised self-defense by shooting someone to death soon after 9/11?
Gun nuts want to shoot everyone in your country, so they move to Florida to murder people legally.
Someone looking suspicious is a nice easy target.
Are you still wondering why they idolised him?
I assume that's what you started this about...

 

Except you're not given permission to shoot someone in a fight, and also no one thought Trayvon was a terrorist, not even Zimmerman.

 

About the hoodie/race thing, do you then think that if the person was a white person in a hoodie Zimmerman would have deemed them "sucpicious" as well? I seriously doubt it.

[Mignaga]

Except you're not given permission to shoot someone in a fight, and also no one thought Trayvon was a terrorist, not even Zimmerman.

 

About the hoodie/race thing, do you then think that if the person was a white person in a hoodie Zimmerman would have deemed them "sucpicious" as well? I seriously doubt it.

I'm pretty sure he was taking your side to some degree, and critiquing American gun laws at the same time, not trying to argue with you.

[3Dude]

Tell me why killing someone is right. I will discuss with you and not be a jerk.

Maybe in self defence for when some crazy dude with a gun is stalking you down alley ways and following you all creeper style, freaking you out, ignoring your escalating levels of trying to get him to leave you alone, like shouting, and then physically defending yourself, and then when he pulls his gun out to shoot you, you shoot him in self defense, because he fully intended to kill you?

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I'm pretty sure he was taking your side to some degree, and critiquing American gun laws at the same time, not trying to argue with you.

 

I know. I didn't mention the gun laws thing cause I agree (like 98% person of the civilized world) that american gun laws are beyond stupid. I only made points on the parts I disagree with.

 

Maybe in self defence for when some crazy dude with a gun is stalking you down alley ways and following you all creeper style, freaking you out, ignoring your escalating levels of trying to get him to leave you alone, like shouting, and then physically defending yourself, and then when he pulls his gun out to shoot you, you shoot him in self defense, because he fully intended to kill you?

*sigh* I guess you win this round.

[Nollog]

About the hoodie/race thing, do you then think that if the person was a white person in a hoodie Zimmerman would have deemed them "sucpicious" as well? I seriously doubt it.

That's down to the person.
I for one would be suspicious of young males covering their faces at night.
I wouldn't act on anything unless I was provoked though.
I'm not someone indoctrinated into the idea of patriotism though, so I wouldn't feel the need to do anything unless someone was directing their negativity at me or someone I felt I needed to protect.

[MatrixChicken]

I think there was only one who said he saw trayvon beating Zimmerman. Another said he saw one beating another and that it was trayvon beating zimmerman, but his mother said he was pressured to say so. Zimmerman was definitely guilty of killing Trayvon, that part was never in dispute, and he had no life threatning injuries. As far as I'm concerned, case closed.

 

Well then... I guess witnesses can't be trusted...? Why does the court even have them give their testimony? 

 

Meh, there's obviously some bias going on here from both our sides. If you aren't going to listen to the witnesses because they contradict your belief, there isn't much point to this argument. I just can't see how someone could think Zimmerman would shoot someone just because they were black and wearing a hoodie.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

That's down to the person.
I for one would be suspicious of young males covering their faces at night.
I wouldn't act on anything unless I was provoked though.
I'm not someone indoctrinated into the idea of patriotism though, so I wouldn't feel the need to do anything unless someone was directing their negativity at me or someone I felt I needed to protect.

 

I don't think Zimmerman was being patriotic, he saw a black kid in a hoodie and so he thought he would be a "hero" and stalk this boy because his hands were in his pocket so he must have a gun.

 

Well then... I guess witnesses can't be trusted...? Why does the court even have them give their testimony? 

 

Meh, there's obviously some bias going on here from both our sides. If you aren't going to listen to the witnesses because they contradict your belief, there isn't much point to this argument. I just can't see how someone could think Zimmerman would shoot someone just because they were black and wearing a hoodie.

 

Well that's the problem with witnesses; sometimes they can be trusted, sometimes they can't. The court takes their testimony under the assumption they will be honest because if they are it can make or break a case.

 

Well here's the unbiased Wikipedia page where I'm getting my facts: http://en.wikipedia...._Trayvon_Martin

 

And I was listening to the witnesses,but like I said, for me, it's an open shut case. Did he shoot Trayvon Martin? Yes. Do his injuries or any other evidence imply his his life was in danger? No? Go to jail. Go straight to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect two hundred dollars. And most definitely do not show at a gun show and give out autographs for being a killer.

I will explain to you how someone can think someone could shoot someone for being black and wearing a hoodie. This will be extrememly blunt because i tried leading people to this conclusion using hours of my time in another thread and it proved to be a waste of my time. Someone could think someone can shoot someone for being black and wearing a hoodie because people will drag people behind trucks until they are dead, tackle people to the ground and assault them to the point they uriniate themselves, tell millionaires to leave their store because they can't afford the cheap items within, and ask people if God is a nice personsimply because they are black (without the hoodie aspect even). Those are all racist incedents I can list off the top of my head that have happened within recent years. So when you are black, and these things happen to you, your friends and family frequently, you have no problem believe someone would shoot someone essentially because they are black.

If you're pretty much any other race however (at least in north america and europe) you are subliminally taught that every time black people call racism, they are making it up. They say everything is racism because it happened before so they think people will just believe it, and they want to use it to excuse their wrongdoings or make a mountain out of molehill. You are taught the fact black people go to jail more often and live in poverty is one hundred percent their fault, and that opportunity for every race is comepletely equal. You are taught that the death or kidnapping or mistreatment of a black person, is less important that the death, kidnapping or mistreament of other races.

You are taught lies.

If you don't believe me I will give you examples to back up each and every one of my claims. Maybe even some from my personal life. Just ask.

Edited by WydrA, 11 March 2014 - 09:48 PM.