55 replies to this topic

[Socalmuscle]

First of all, considering abysmal sales and all the proof oId posted, it's incredibly foolish to try and call this a vocal minority. Also, once again, vocal minorities don't complain about things like this for two years.
Once again, this is clearly NOT what the editor's job is supposed to be, or there wouldn't be so many people with this much experience quitting and saying it is wrong. This also goes for what writers "should" be doing.
Writer's do NOT need to follow suit. They're writers not slaves, and that's why so many are quitting.
The order before the corporate attitude is currently taking was working quite well for DC, and fans and creators alike were clearly more happy with the arrangement.
Once again, this is clearly more than people just "not liking" it. Writer's don't quit a job two years after a change because they didn't like said change. That's not good.

With true comic book guys like Jim Lee in editorial roles now; dc is in good hands. The new 52 was greatly needed and rights a lot of wrongs. The books the used to sell well still do. Some of the new stuff didn't pan out. And some of the less popular characters... Are still less popular. That happens. And some writers being disgruntled over having to answer to someone concerning their stories is also expected. New 52 brought a ton of sales - more than previous with popular titles - as soon as it launched and is still going strong with some of the most creative stories in a while. The potential is only growing and it's doing do as a cohesive, well structured universe.

Dc has new life breathed into it now. And that's a good thing.

Seriously. Nothing else to see here.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 17 May 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

With true comic book guys like Jim Lee in editorial roles now; dc is in good hands. The new 52 was greatly needed and rights a lot of wrongs. The books the used to sell well still do. Some of the new stuff didn't pan out. And some of the less popular characters... Are still less popular. That happens. And some writers being disgruntled over having to answer to someone concerning their stories is also expected. New 52 brought a ton of sales - more than previous with popular titles - as soon as it launched and is still going strong with some of the most creative stories in a while. The potential is only growing and it's doing do as a cohesive, well structured universe.

Dc has new life breathed into it now. And that's a good thing.

Seriously. Nothing else to see here.

I'm sorry, where exactly is the new life?

Like you said the comics that were selling well are still selling well. The same comics that do well if you put them on anything. Movies, clothing, accessories. coffee mugs, etc. These are also the same comics that have been selling well since the 1950s-80s latest. In other words 30 to 60 years-old comics. Everything else, the "niche" comics as you call them, that were doing fairly well before new 52 are all frinking dying. Not "still less popular" like nothing has changed. Dead. As in cancelled, or -for characters like Stephanie Brown and almost John Stewart- actually straight up dead in the comics.

And you still don't seem to understand the issue with how writers are being treated. Editors have been around for an extremely long time now, however, they did not overview every single comic and tell the writers how/what to write. Because funnily enough it is expected that a writer knows how to write a good story. This is not why editors are hired. Believe it or not editors are hired to edit. As in make sure that the story won't mess things up completely for the whole universe, or that the character doesn't turn into a totally different person for no reason. Not to say "Oh, oh oh, do this. I wanna see this happen, so so it for me my little slave writer. No no, I don't like your idea for a great story, I wanna see one of the 1% of heroes that are black die, so unwrite what you wrote and make him die!"

[Socalmuscle]

I'm sorry, where exactly is the new life?
Like you said the comics that were selling well are still selling well. The same comics that do well if you put them on anything. Movies, clothing, accessories. coffee mugs, etc. These are also the same comics that have been selling well since the 1950s-80s latest. In other words 30 to 60 years-old comics. Everything else, the "niche" comics as you call them, that were doing fairly well before new 52 are all frinking dying. Not "still less popular" like nothing has changed. Dead. As in cancelled, or -for characters like Stephanie Brown and almost John Stewart- actually straight up dead in the comics.
And you still don't seem to understand the issue with how writers are being treated. Editors have been around for an extremely long time now, however, they did not overview every single comic and tell the writers how/what to write. Because funnily enough it is expected that a writer knows how to write a good story. This is not why editors are hired. Believe it or not editors are hired to edit. As in make sure that the story won't mess things up completely for the whole universe, or that the character doesn't turn into a totally different person for no reason. Not to say "Oh, oh oh, do this. I wanna see this happen, so so it for me my little slave writer. No no, I don't like your idea for a great story, I wanna see one of the 1% of heroes that are black die, so unwrite what you wrote and make him die!"

Lol at the racist implications. Especially when one of DCs most influential members (RIP) was black and had a vested interest in, and pushed to make black characters that "white kids would want to dress up as."

You are a disgruntled fan grasping at straws. You have a right to feel that way. But dc has taken a new direction for many good reasons. And the story content is only benefitting.

The real story is here:

http://dccomicsnews....-1-new-52-stay/

From the horses mouth.

/thread.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 17 May 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Lol at the racist implications. Especially when one of DCs most influential members (RIP) was black and had a vested interest in, and pushed to make black characters that "white kids would want to dress up as."

You are a disgruntled fan grasping at straws. You have a right to feel that way. But dc has taken a new direction for many good reasons. And the story content is only benefitting.

The real story is here:

http://dccomicsnews....-1-new-52-stay/

From the horses mouth.

/thread.

Seriously?

First of all, I don't know what you're trying to say about the race thing. Don't really care, I've already vowed not to discuss race with anyone on this forum ever again.

Second, I am NOT grasping at straws, I came at you with sources and proof, you just kept saying "It's a good thing, good things have happened. people like it"

then your "real story", comes from a DC comics site.

Because they would definitely say "we are majorly bucking up and our writers and true fans hate us"

Actually they did esentially say the last part, which just makes your argument worse.

In fact that whole frinking article was disgusting, basically saying "buck the people who have been fans of our work for their lifetime, you're all fat fanboys, and we only care about sales."

I was a HUGE DC fan, and am much younger than their target range, my future aspirations were to work for DC, but after new 52 and seeing how crap they treat their writers I'm unsure now. After reading that disgusting article I am even more unsure.

Anyway, you really need how to actually have a debate, and how to approach one in general. You're turning into sailtheseas.

"/thread"

Ugh.

[Raiden]

See wydra the guy flames. Maybe best to ignore him. He is just looking to argue and not much else esp when bringing up the race card.

[Socalmuscle]

See wydra the guy flames. Maybe best to ignore him. He is just looking to argue and not much else esp when bringing up the race card.

Lol. You are the one who flames.

And changing your user I'd doesn't fix that.

Seriously?
First of all, I don't know what you're trying to say about the race thing. Don't really care, I've already vowed not to discuss race with anyone on this forum ever again.
Second, I am NOT grasping at straws, I came at you with sources and proof, you just kept saying "It's a good thing, good things have happened. people like it"
then your "real story", comes from a DC comics site.
Because they would definitely say "we are majorly bucking up and our writers and true fans hate us"
Actually they did esentially say the last part, which just makes your argument worse.
In fact that whole frinking article was disgusting, basically saying "buck the people who have been fans of our work for their lifetime, you're all fat fanboys, and we only care about sales."
I was a HUGE DC fan, and am much younger than their target range, my future aspirations were to work for DC, but after new 52 and seeing how crap they treat their writers I'm unsure now. After reading that disgusting article I am even more unsure.
Anyway, you really need how to actually have a debate, and how to approach one in general. You're turning into sailtheseas.
"/thread"
Ugh.

There are numerous other sources that show two years after the new 52 launch that DCs big sellers are selling better than ever.

It was a good move. You never shared sources of facts. You showed sources of opinions.

Then I direct you to the actual agent of change and you still would rather hold onto disgruntled opinions.

That's fine. You have an opinion you are entitled to.

And you brought up the race thing in the last part of your post. You implied racism on DCs part. I simply addressed your implication with a "lol." Which in my opinion is deserved.

There can be reasons for you to dislike the new universe.

I know folks the get off on seeing batman somehow be able to beat down Superman. Now that Superman is shown in a more logics
Light, they have a problem. There are always Frank Miller stories in print and animation to cling onto.

There are others who can't stand aquamarine. Now DC is making him cool and some just can't get with that. Fine.

People have an issue with the Wonder Woman and superman relationship. Fine.

Etc.

Everyone is entitled to feel what thru feel.

But the new 52 was a good move for a variety of reasons. More relevant, better sales, bringing in new and old readers alike, fixing logic problems, restoring clean canon, and a better oversight that makes sure all writers play nicely in the same universe. Jim lees fairly new editor role is a huge help on that.

DC is a corporation. Comics were going down. They did what was needed to be done to correct a sinking ship. It's working. If it wasn't, they'd abandon ship. But they're not. Because it was a good move. Therefore, they continue.

You and some. Others may not necessarily be happy about it and it's too bad there isn't some way to make everybody happy. But that's how change goes sometimes.

It's change. But IMHO, it's Good change. I was skeptical about it at first, but I gave it a chance band now I see the wisdom to the move. And the stories are much more enjoyable than most in recent memory.

And by the way, you have much to learn about the role of editors in publishing, whether that be newspapers, magazines, or comic books. Ensuring an article, story, etc fits with the vision and direction of its company, specific setting, etc. is the job of the editor as well as the true editing part.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 17 May 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Lol. You are the one who flames.

And changing your user I'd doesn't fix that.


There are numerous other sources that show two years after the new 52 launch that DCs big sellers are selling better than ever.

It was a good move. You never shared sources of facts. You showed sources of opinions.

Then I direct you to the actual agent of change and you still would rather hold onto disgruntled opinions.

That's fine. You have an opinion you are entitled to.

And you brought up the race thing in the last part of your post. You implied racism on DCs part. I simply addressed your implication with a "lol." Which in my opinion is deserved.

There can be reasons for you to dislike the new universe.

I know folks the get off on seeing batman somehow be able to beat down Superman. Now that Superman is shown in a more logics
Light, they have a problem. There are always Frank Miller stories in print and animation to cling onto.

There are others who can't stand aquamarine. Now DC is making him cool and some just can't get with that. Fine.

People have an issue with the Wonder Woman and superman relationship. Fine.

Etc.

Everyone is entitled to feel what thru feel.

But the new 52 was a good move for a variety of reasons. More relevant, better sales, bringing in new and old readers alike, fixing logic problems, restoring clean canon, and a better oversight that makes sure all writers play nicely in the same universe. Jim lees fairly new editor role is a huge help on that.

DC is a corporation. Comics were going down. They did what was needed to be done to correct a sinking ship. It's working. If it wasn't, they'd abandon ship. But they're not. Because it was a good move. Therefore, they continue.

You and some. Others may not necessarily be happy about it and it's too bad there isn't some way to make everybody happy. But that's how change goes sometimes.

It's change. But IMHO, it's Good change. I was skeptical about it at first, but I gave it a chance band now I see the wisdom to the move. And the stories are much more enjoyable than most in recent memory.

1. I shared sources of fact.

2. More sales overall does not mean the change was good.

3. I did not imply racism. I was saying that getting rid of one their few black characters (and probably most famous one) is a stupid thing to do, though it does go along with ruining most of their female characters, and their second most famous black character.

4. No one complains about Superman. He is one of the staples I'm talking about that sells in everything.

5. DC did NOT make Aquaman (NOT marine) cool. Geoff Johns made Aquaman. It's part of his signature to make unknown and disliked characters known and liked. Though I don't know why you brought it up, that's one of the few things people loved about New 52.

6. Superman Wonder Woman relationship is the least of their problems. Like I said, this isn't just some single plot device people are griping over. This is way bucking bigger than that.

7. Once again, more sales overall does not mean the change was good.

8. Sure they saved the ship but they sacrificed much of what made the ship what it was.

9. Of course not everyone would be happy. Once again, this is more than that.

10. Maybe if you only read core series the stories are more enjoyable.

 

Now, Google "new 52 opinions"

Set the filter time to "Past Year"

Read.

See how many people say the new 52 is bad.

See how many people say it's good.

this is not "vocal minority" like you will try and pin it to be, because that should also mean that you would get people rising up to defend it and say it's good.

I'll post one of the top 3 for you. If it's too long for you, skim, get the gist, then read the comments: http://comicsallianc...idio-editorial/

 

Now go here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_New_52_publications

Oooh look, the Batman family comic section has almost no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!

Oooh look, the Superman comics section has no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!

Oooh look, the Green Lantern comics has no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!

 

Wait, what's that section? Justice League? huh, that a pretty decent number of cancellation... it mus be nothing, right? All is well! Sales are up!

Wait, look over there! The dark section has more cancellations than running and upcoming comics? Woah, that's a little weird. Oh well, all is well. Sales are up!

Holy balls! Look at the number cancellations in the Edge section. That's a huge number my word! But sales are up, so this must just be some weird unlucky thing that happened several times.

Oh. Oh boy. Look at the Young Justice section. ONE upcoming series?! All the rest cancelled? Oh and what's that? That series has already BEEN cancelled is is just attempting to make a return? After it was an extremely popular series before the new 52? Hm. Sales are up though, nothing to see here. Really.

 

Is that the way you think? Because that's essentially what you're saying. Do all those cancellations look normal, no, sorry, BETTER to you? Does the fact only THREE heroes can be relied on to make sales not make you think something might be bucking wrong?

I don't think that can be right, because then you would be an idiot.

Yeah, it's all so frinking great no, they have a bunch of people who went and saw the movies coming in and reading their Batman comics and their Superman comics, and their Green Lantern comics. But there's really only two ways I can see this going.

1. All these newbies don't have the dedication to stick around for more than a couple years. They then leave. DC is bucked. True fans will not come back, they've already switched to marvel (like I, along with many others have started to do). We already know how bad their movies are, so those won't do them much good.

2. DC gives up on trying to publish anything but Batman, Superman, Green Lantern. Pretty much all the old fans leave. Then those thatremain, and the new fans that remain, get bored with only reading about three heroes and their friends. Everyone bales. DC dies.

 

I'm not saying didn't need a reboot, or something to similar effect, because yes sales were going down. I'm saying this was a bad one, and all they've done is buck things up for themselves in the future.

Actually there's a third possibility.

3. DC becomes money whore. Turns into sensationalist garbage for sales. Essentially goes from The New York Times to People magazine in terms of quality of writing.

 

Have fun with any of those three options. Don't be mad if the fans with sense don't stick around to see that happen.

Also, I won't be responding further. I have shown you ample proof, but you only see in sales right here and now like one of those idiotic money whore capitalists. The same ones that quite often fail. Success does not last forever. If you don't believe me, see: Sony, Netscape, MySpace, Sega or any other of the long list of companies that bucked up and died.

[Raiden]

snip

It's the name I signed up with and wanted back and the name I use on every forum email RPG banking and everything else for 11 years. Since playing Grandia II in 2004. I use this name so much I often confuse it with my real name. Dreamcat was changed to be a temp fun name but can only change your name once a month. Oh and been in my sig for the last 2 months in 3 ways and NNID. Man you really are starting to sound like sails

Edited by Ryudo, 17 May 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Socalmuscle]

It's the name I signed up with and wanted back and the name I use on every forum email RPG banking and everything else for 11 years. Since playing Grandia II in 2004. I use this name so much I often confuse it with my real name. Dreamcat was changed to be a temp fun name but can only change your name once a month. Oh and been in my sig for the last 2 months in 3 ways and NNID. Man you really are starting to sound like sails

Ok. Speaking of flaming...

Sail theses is known for making stuff up (which is ironically what you are doing). I'm giving facts and opinions. Not pulling stuff out of the air. If you need a norther forum member frame of reference, You are sounding more like "TheHappening" with your attitude.

You don't evened understand how to degrade another's character stealthily.

Should probably just stop.

One day you'll grow up and realize other people have different opinions and values than you. And then one day you'll also realize it's ok to tolerate that and embrace the humanity around you.

We will have disagreements. Sometimes string ones. That's ok. But it's no reason to follow someone around looking to jump onto other peoples disagreements. Lol

Guess you're the lonely type who can figure out the only way to make friends is to find similar "enemies"

Enjoy the forums. But seriously, tone down the personal vendetta crap.

[Raiden]

Ok. Speaking of flaming...

Sail theses is known for making stuff up (which is ironically what you are doing). I'm giving facts and opinions. Not pulling stuff out of the air. If you need a norther forum member frame of reference, You are sounding more like "TheHappening" with your attitude.

You don't evened understand how to degrade another's character stealthily.

Should probably just stop.

One day you'll grow up and realize other people have different opinions and values than you. And then one day you'll also realize it's ok to tolerate that and embrace the humanity around you.

We will have disagreements. Sometimes string ones. That's ok. But it's no reason to follow someone around looking to jump onto other peoples disagreements. Lol

Guess you're the lonely type who can figure out the only way to make friends is to find similar "enemies"

Enjoy the forums. But seriously, tone down the personal vendetta crap.

lol. Funny how you think I am emotional and assume and accuse to 2 people in this thread. Accuse wydra of being racist and me of having a vendetta. Quite amusing. If you only knew how unphased I am but really just watching a wreck unfold. Keep ok making assumptions tho and judegments. Fasinating to watch it unfold over comics and someone is this intense over nothing. lol If I were upset in any way I would bite my thumb at you but since I am as emotional as a cardboard box...I bid adieu

Edited by Ryudo, 18 May 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Zinix]

I was also accused of being a troll by dreamcat. 

 

Keep that in mind. 

[Raiden]

http://thewiiu.com/t...being-homeless/

[Socalmuscle]

1. I shared sources of fact.
2. More sales overall does not mean the change was good.
3. I did not imply racism. I was saying that getting rid of one their few black characters (and probably most famous one) is a stupid thing to do, though it does go along with ruining most of their female characters, and their second most famous black character.
4. No one complains about Superman. He is one of the staples I'm talking about that sells in everything.
5. DC did NOT make Aquaman (NOT marine) cool. Geoff Johns made Aquaman. It's part of his signature to make unknown and disliked characters known and liked. Though I don't know why you brought it up, that's one of the few things people loved about New 52.
6. Superman Wonder Woman relationship is the least of their problems. Like I said, this isn't just some single plot device people are griping over. This is way bucking bigger than that.
7. Once again, more sales overall does not mean the change was good.
8. Sure they saved the ship but they sacrificed much of what made the ship what it was.
9. Of course not everyone would be happy. Once again, this is more than that.
10. Maybe if you only read core series the stories are more enjoyable.

Now, Google "new 52 opinions"
Set the filter time to "Past Year"
Read.
See how many people say the new 52 is bad.
See how many people say it's good.
this is not "vocal minority" like you will try and pin it to be, because that should also mean that you would get people rising up to defend it and say it's good.
I'll post one of the top 3 for you. If it's too long for you, skim, get the gist, then read the comments: http://comicsallianc...idio-editorial/

Now go here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_New_52_publications
Oooh look, the Batman family comic section has almost no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!
Oooh look, the Superman comics section has no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!
Oooh look, the Green Lantern comics has no discontinued series; Hooray, all is well!

Wait, what's that section? Justice League? huh, that a pretty decent number of cancellation... it mus be nothing, right? All is well! Sales are up!
Wait, look over there! The dark section has more cancellations than running and upcoming comics? Woah, that's a little weird. Oh well, all is well. Sales are up!
Holy balls! Look at the number cancellations in the Edge section. That's a huge number my word! But sales are up, so this must just be some weird unlucky thing that happened several times.
Oh. Oh boy. Look at the Young Justice section. ONE upcoming series?! All the rest cancelled? Oh and what's that? That series has already BEEN cancelled is is just attempting to make a return? After it was an extremely popular series before the new 52? Hm. Sales are up though, nothing to see here. Really.

Is that the way you think? Because that's essentially what you're saying. Do all those cancellations look normal, no, sorry, BETTER to you? Does the fact only THREE heroes can be relied on to make sales not make you think something might be bucking wrong?
I don't think that can be right, because then you would be an idiot.
Yeah, it's all so frinking great no, they have a bunch of people who went and saw the movies coming in and reading their Batman comics and their Superman comics, and their Green Lantern comics. But there's really only two ways I can see this going.
1. All these newbies don't have the dedication to stick around for more than a couple years. They then leave. DC is bucked. True fans will not come back, they've already switched to marvel (like I, along with many others have started to do). We already know how bad their movies are, so those won't do them much good.
2. DC gives up on trying to publish anything but Batman, Superman, Green Lantern. Pretty much all the old fans leave. Then those thatremain, and the new fans that remain, get bored with only reading about three heroes and their friends. Everyone bales. DC dies.

I'm not saying didn't need a reboot, or something to similar effect, because yes sales were going down. I'm saying this was a bad one, and all they've done is buck things up for themselves in the future.
Actually there's a third possibility.
3. DC becomes money whore. Turns into sensationalist garbage for sales. Essentially goes from The New York Times to People magazine in terms of quality of writing.

Have fun with any of those three options. Don't be mad if the fans with sense don't stick around to see that happen.
Also, I won't be responding further. I have shown you ample proof, but you only see in sales right here and now like one of those idiotic money whore capitalists. The same ones that quite often fail. Success does not last forever. If you don't believe me, see: Sony, Netscape, MySpace, Sega or any other of the long list of companies that bucked up and died.

That's a lot of opinion to go along with very little fact.

And what you said did imply racism. No getting around it. And I seriously hope you're not now including sexism as well.

And yes, dc is a company. Companies exist to make money. So sales matter. Otherwise, no one is getting paid to make comic books. No one can afford to print them or deliver them to newsstands. Likewise, no one is going to digitize them or sell them on iBooks or the DC app.

Also, dc is not the only one facing cancellations.

Marvel is trying something similar (because it seems dc did it well) and they are also facing cancellations:

http://comicbooknumb...es-new-and.html

As time goes on, the shock of change will settle and people can get comfortable again.

Here's a good article on the reboots in new 52 and cancellations, etc.

http://www.comicvine...-52/4015-56061/

It does much to reveal that some of the books that are no longer in circulation weren't cancelled, but rather finished their intended limited run. Meanwhile,characters that have always had a tough time as leading titles were again cancelled - along with some new IP.

It seems those who dislike the change are vocal on forums, such as yourself.

Meanwhile, those who enjoy the change are vocal with their dollars, having caused a massive rebound for DC.

And I do agree with you that business decisions don't always make a good story. Sometimes, those decisions ruin it. (Look at the last transformers bay trilogy for an example of that - basically abused every character and made a killing in money) And in some cases in the new 52, that may be so. But certainly not all. And definitely not the majority.

In fact, it seems that for many titles, the storytelling is much more intense, deep, universe-wide, and engaging. Though perhaps not for all titles. I read a review lamenting the cancellation of I, vampire - a title, that does nothing for me, but had a cult following (pun intended). Apparently, it was awesome story wise. But no one bought it and it couldn't justify a continued run.

So there are other factors to consider too other than "DC is stupid!" Or "new 52 is a dumb idea!"

There are market changes as well. Changes in what people want.

It happens. Smart companies adapt. Sometimes that means resting a product line or making radical changes.

Hard to say why 7 titles out of 52 were cancelled and replaced. Hard to say why the sales were low especially without sales data from previous iterations to compare it to.

But Overrall, like I said from the beginning, the new 52 was a good idea as it fights many wrongs and brings the entire universe to a new era of relevancy.

lol. Funny how you think I am emotional and assume and accuse to 2 people in this thread. Accuse wydra of being racist and me of having a vendetta. Quite amusing. If you only knew how unphased I am but really just watching a wreck unfold. Keep ok making assumptions tho and judegments. Fasinating to watch it unfold over comics and someone is this intense over nothing. lol If I were upset in any way I would bite my thumb at you but since I am as emotional as a cardboard box...I bid adieu

Lol. First of all. Learn how to read.

I never accused wyrda of racism. I pointed out that he was ACCUSING DC of racism. So get it right.

And you can "say" how unphased you are all day. But your posts prove otherwise.

If it's was nothing to you, you wouldn't have felt the need to jump in with nothing to add to the discussion on your first post other than to attack another posters character. That's not the way this forums Is designed to work.

Play by the rules please. Thanks.

I was also accused of being a troll by dreamcat.

Keep that in mind.

Dreamcat and ryudo being the same person, that's obviously its M.O.

Don't worry about it. Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle of inevitable implosion.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 18 May 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Zinix]

http://thewiiu.com/t...being-homeless/

You fail at reading comprehension "verge" 

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

That's a lot of opinion to go along with very little fact.

And what you said did imply racism. No getting around it. And I seriously hope you're not now including sexism as well.

And yes, dc is a company. Companies exist to make money. So sales matter. Otherwise, no one is getting paid to make comic books. No one can afford to print them or deliver them to newsstands. Likewise, no one is going to digitize them or sell them on iBooks or the DC app.

Also, dc is not the only one facing cancellations.

Marvel is trying something similar (because it seems dc did it well) and they are also facing cancellations:

http://comicbooknumb...es-new-and.html

As time goes on, the shock of change will settle and people can get comfortable again.

Here's a good article on the reboots in new 52 and cancellations, etc.

http://www.comicvine...-52/4015-56061/

It does much to reveal that some of the books that are no longer in circulation weren't cancelled, but rather finished their intended limited run. Meanwhile,characters that have always had a tough time as leading titles were again cancelled - along with some new IP.

It seems those who dislike the change are vocal on forums, such as yourself.

Meanwhile, those who enjoy the change are vocal with their dollars, having caused a massive rebound for DC.

And I do agree with you that business decisions don't always make a good story. Sometimes, those decisions ruin it. (Look at the last transformers bay trilogy for an example of that - basically abused every character and made a killing in money) And in some cases in the new 52, that may be so. But certainly not all. And definitely not the majority.

In fact, it seems that for many titles, the storytelling is much more intense, deep, universe-wide, and engaging. Though perhaps not for all titles. I read a review lamenting the cancellation of I, vampire - a title, that does nothing for me, but had a cult following (pun intended). Apparently, it was awesome story wise. But no one bought it and it couldn't justify a continued run.

So there are other factors to consider too other than "DC is stupid!" Or "new 52 is a dumb idea!"

There are market changes as well. Changes in what people want.

It happens. Smart companies adapt. Sometimes that means resting a product line or making radical changes.

Hard to say why 7 titles out of 52 were cancelled and replaced. Hard to say why the sales were low especially without sales data from previous iterations to compare it to.

But Overrall, like I said from the beginning, the new 52 was a good idea as it fights many wrongs and brings the entire universe to a new era of relevancy.

Lol. First of all. Learn how to read.

I never accused wyrda of racism. I pointed out that he was ACCUSING DC of racism. So get it right.

And you can "say" how unphased you are all day. But your posts prove otherwise.

If it's was nothing to you, you wouldn't have felt the need to jump in with nothing to add to the discussion on your first post other than to attack another posters character. That's not the way this forums Is designed to work.

Play by the rules please. Thanks.

Dreamcat and ryudo being the same person, that's obviously its M.O.

Don't worry about it. Just sit back and enjoy the spectacle of inevitable implosion.

Yeah there's no point in continuing this.

How do you debate against someone who calls all your proof absent just because they don't agree with it?

Actually how do you debate against someone who apparently doesn't read or understand their own linked sources?

[Socalmuscle]

Yeah there's no point in continuing this.
How do you debate against someone who calls all your proof absent just because they don't agree with it?
Actually how do you debate against someone who apparently doesn't read or understand their own linked sources?

Ditto.