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Hostage situation in Lindt cafe in Sydney in apparent terrorist attack


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#21 CUD

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 07:39 PM


 


On the other hand, martyrdom in war for an Islamic cause is praised extensively as in the above Hadith. The Quran teaches (3:169):

 

“Do not consider those killed [while engaging] in God’s cause dead. Rather, they live with their Lord, who sustains them!”

 

The Qur’an and valid authentic Hadiths are very clear about what happens to anyone who commits suicide. 

 

 

What Muslims interpret to be valid Hadiths will vary and even just one mentioning 72 virgins is more reason for them to do these things. Suicide is condemned but making their death in the name of Allah is rewarded, maybe not necessarily with 72 virgins but they do believe there will be a reward in the end.


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#22 grahamf

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 02:35 AM

What Muslims interpret to be valid Hadiths will vary and even just one mentioning 72 virgins is more reason for them to do these things. Suicide is condemned but making their death in the name of Allah is rewarded, maybe not necessarily with 72 virgins but they do believe there will be a reward in the end.

But by "god's cause" that's not necessarily saying that to make something god's cause they merely have to exclaim "Alluh Ackbar" once. That would be like me somehow helping out Jewish people in the name of Hitler.


$̵̵͙͎̹̝̙̼̻̱͖̲̖̜̩̫̩̼̥͓̳̒̀ͨ̌̅ͮ̇̓ͮ̈͌̓̔̐͆ͩ̋͆ͣ́&̾̋͗̏̌̓̍ͥ̉ͧͣͪ̃̓̇̑҉͎̬͞^̸̠̬̙̹̰̬̗̲͈͈̼̯̞̻͎ͭ̐ͦ̋́̆̔̏̽͢$̻̜͕̜̠͔̮͐ͬ̍ͨͩͤͫ͐ͧ̔̆͘͝͞^̄̋̄͗̐ͯͮͨͣ͐͂͑̽ͩ͒̈̚͏̷͏̗͈̣̪͙̳̰͉͉̯̲̘̮̣̘͟ͅ&̐ͪͬ̑̂̀̓͛̈́͌҉҉̶̕͝*̗̩͚͍͇͔̻̬̼̖͖͈͍̝̻̪͙̳̯̌̅̆̌ͥ̊͗͆́̍ͨ̎̊̌͟͡$̶̛̛̙̝̥̳̥̣̥̞̝̱̺͍̭̹̞͔̠̰͇ͪ͋͛̍̊̋͒̓̿ͩͪ̓̓͘^̈ͥͩͭ͆͌ͣ̀̿͌ͫ̈́̍ͨ̇̾̚͏̢̗̼̻̲̱͇͙̝͉͝ͅ$̢̨̪̝̗̰͖̠̜̳̭̀ͥͭͨ̋ͪ̍̈ͮͣ̌^ͦ̏ͬ̋͑̿́ͮ̿ͨ̋̌ͪ̓̋̇͆͟҉̗͍$̛̪̞̤͉̬͙̦̋ͣͬ̒͗̀̍͗̾̽̓̉͌̔͂̇͒̚̕͜^̧͎̖̟̮͚̞̜̮̘͕̹͚̏ͩ͐ͯ͑̍̍̀͒͘*̿ͨ̽̈́͐ͭ̌̈͋̚͟͝҉͕̙*̨̢̭̭̤̺̦̩̫̲͇͕̼̝̯̇ͨ͗̓̃͂ͩ͆͂̅̀̀́̚̚͟%̨͚̙̮̣̭͖͕͙ͣ̽ͮͤ́ͫ̊̊̐̄̌ͣ͌̉̔͊̽̾ͨ^̢̹̭͍̬̖͇̝̝̬̱͈͔̹͉̫̿͛̄̿͊͆ͦ̃ͮͩ͌ͭ̔ͫ̆͞ͅͅ%̵̼̖̻̘ͪͤ̈̃̓̐̑ͩͭ̄̑͊ͫ̆̌̄͡*̴̮̪͕̗̩͇͇ͪ̑̊̈́́̀͞^̼̝̥̦͇̺̘̤̦͕̦̞͑̑ͯ̂ͯ̕͞%ͮͫ̿ͫ̊̈̔̍҉҉̴̸̡*̛̭̖͇͚̝̤̬̰̅̎ͥͯ̓͑̾ͬͨͮ́̕͝^̧̽͋̈ͤͮ̈́́̍ͧ̊҉͇̙̣̯̀́%̴̡̛̘͚͈̗̖̮̫̏̆ͦ̽̔̈̽͒͛̈

 


#23 CUD

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 03:52 PM

But by "god's cause" that's not necessarily saying that to make something god's cause they merely have to exclaim "Alluh Ackbar" once. That would be like me somehow helping out Jewish people in the name of Hitler.

 

I wouldn't say you can really compare it to your Hitler example. Doing something like that would go against what Hitler stands for but such violence in Islam is justifiable and even encouraged in Islam. Violence against non-believers (kafir) can easily be made for god's cause in Islam and in their minds it may be as simple as exclaiming 'Allahu Ackbar' during these acts of violence. In a religion such as this you can justify some truly terrible actions.

 

EDIT: Meant to include:

 

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

This is but one example. Many more can be found here: 

 

http://www.thereligi...23-violence.htm


Edited by CUD, 16 December 2014 - 03:54 PM.

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#24 Fero

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:58 PM

I wouldn't say you can really compare it to your Hitler example. Doing something like that would go against what Hitler stands for but such violence in Islam is justifiable and even encouraged in Islam. Violence against non-believers (kafir) can easily be made for god's cause in Islam and in their minds it may be as simple as exclaiming 'Allahu Ackbar' during these acts of violence. In a religion such as this you can justify some truly terrible actions.

 

EDIT: Meant to include:

 

 

This is but one example. Many more can be found here: 

 

http://www.thereligi...23-violence.htm

 

^ The next time I hear one of these reporters on TV claim that Islam is a religion of peace, I'm going to leap through the tv and slap them with a slice of cheese.

 

I'm not saying that everyone out there who considers themselves "muslim" is violent <<<< people claim to be religious, but they really aren't, it's more of a cultural thing, they don't really give a $*!$ about the quran (same with most christians and the bible)

 

It sucks that this had to happen so close to me though.. I walk past that cafe A LOT.



#25 Raiden

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:17 AM

Bible is very violent and has tons of bad messages as well. Violent passages against newborns. Passages for women as slaves. Tons of hatred and violence. Can find a lot of disturbing content in probably any religious sacred book.

 

What is interesting to me how many religions refuse to marry gay couples. Now I do believe that is their legal right even if I disagree with it but some let a guy who commits rape and murder then goes to prison but accepts god and stuff and he is forgiven. If two guys wanna stick their ding dong in the pooper it's a sin and crime no one can forgive.

 

I'm not anti religion. I'm not religious either.I seen religion do a lot of good for people. A lot of bad stuff people do in name of. I often believe unless really extreme that it's not the religion that hurts people. It's what people do in the name of it. I don't blame the car in a car wreck but the bad driver. I seen religion make some people much better people or good people even better and help them in hard times. Just as a general rule people are dumb. People try and justify crimes with some sort of crutch without it being legit.



#26 KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:46 AM

Bible is very violent and has tons of bad messages as well. Violent passages against newborns. Passages for women as slaves. Tons of hatred and violence. Can find a lot of disturbing content in probably any religious sacred book.

 

What is interesting to me how many religions refuse to marry gay couples. Now I do believe that is their legal right even if I disagree with it but some let a guy who commits rape and murder then goes to prison but accepts god and stuff and he is forgiven. If two guys wanna stick their ding dong in the pooper it's a sin and crime no one can forgive.

 

I'm not anti religion. I'm not religious either.I seen religion do a lot of good for people. A lot of bad stuff people do in name of. I often believe unless really extreme that it's not the religion that hurts people. It's what people do in the name of it. I don't blame the car in a car wreck but the bad driver. I seen religion make some people much better people or good people even better and help them in hard times. Just as a general rule people are dumb. People try and justify crimes with some sort of crutch without it being legit.

oh please. As I said before, you can start comparing Christianity to Islam when Christians start slaughtering people internationally en masse. The Bible has violence in it, but it definitely promotes messages of peace an love.

Trying to compare not supporting gay marriage to killing 132 innocent children, trapping people in a building and killing two of them, shooting an unarmed soldier, supporting te stoning of women, and going around killing because they are another religion or ace?

Absolutely. Ridiculous.


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#27 Raiden

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:46 AM

I'm not comparing in the post. Making a general statement.

 

oh please. As I said before, you can start comparing Christianity to Islam when Christians start slaughtering people internationally en masse. The Bible has violence in it, but it definitely promotes messages of peace an love.

Trying to compare not supporting gay marriage to killing 132 innocent children, trapping people in a building and killing two of them, shooting an unarmed soldier, supporting te stoning of women, and going around killing because they are another religion or ace?

Absolutely. Ridiculous.

 

 

I like how you guys quote one book but when mentioned the bible has them you shrug it off. I will directly quote the murdering babies bit if you want and other passages of murder rape and slavery.

 

Movies show violence. Bible just another work of fiction with violence in it.

Bolded. Every read history? Hell it's still  going on. Plus that's a laugh.  Stop reading between the lines and putting words in peoples mouths.Bugger off.

EDIT

I decided to have the same fun. You want me to compare to lets have a fictional god book war on the internet. Come on be fun!

 

Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighboring people: “This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3

 

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

 

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3

 

 

Everyone's made up god and books is full of violent BS.

 

I don't go by a persons religion but what they do with it. I'm not atheist either. I just know all religion is BS. I believe in other possibilities but every religion on earth is fiction. But screw this topic. One internet topic not going to stop make believe wars. Out of this topic


Edited by Strider Hiryu, 18 December 2014 - 01:56 AM.


#28 KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 11:56 AM

I'm not comparing in the post. Making a general statement.

 

I like how you guys quote one book but when mentioned the bible has them you shrug it off. I will directly quote the murdering babies bit if you want and other passages of murder rape and slavery.

 

Movies show violence. Bible just another work of fiction with violence in it.

Bolded. Every read history? Hell it's still  going on. Plus that's a laugh.  Stop reading between the lines and putting words in peoples mouths.Bugger off.

EDIT

I decided to have the same fun. You want me to compare to lets have a fictional god book war on the internet. Come on be fun!

 

Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighboring people: “This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3

 

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

 

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3

 

 

Everyone's made up god and books is full of violent BS.

 

I don't go by a persons religion but what they do with it. I'm not atheist either. I just know all religion is BS. I believe in other possibilities but every religion on earth is fiction. But screw this topic. One internet topic not going to stop make believe wars. Out of this topic

Quote away. Pretty much the whole Bible. It's incredibly daft to thinking that the Bible having those things in them is equivalent to it telling people to do those things. Even the most extremist Christian groups aren't violent, because never can they find a time where the Bible tells them they should do anything violent in God's name.

Oh congratulations, you've quoted the Old Testament at me. I suppose this is the part where my brain is supposed to implode, and I start muttering to myself and crying on the floor. Because I've definitely never actually read these passages. I for sure haven't read the single book that is a necessity to my faith.

Come back to me when you have some New Testament violence to share.

 

Now, clearly you've never actually talked to someone who knows their religion about this.

Let's start with the most basic of things when it comes to scripture. The first thing any good pastor would tell you is the most important thing. Context. You can make the Bible say anything if you pull single random verses from all over the book. If you look at the context around each quote however, doing so is a lot harder.

For example there's a rather famous joke (that unfortunately I couldn't find) about a man who asks God for a sign, opens it, reads a single verse where it's implied he should kill himself. He closes it and tries again, and it tells him that whatever he will do, he should do it quickly.

Here's a real life example from Reddit: 
"True story: As a new Christian, I needed guidance in a decision so I opened my Bible and read the first passage I saw, assuming God would let me know what to do. I got Hosea 1:2

"Go marry a prostitute and have children with her.""

Context is everything. Go look up the context around your versus and you'll realise you've rather made a fool of yourself.

Though since you probably won't do any of that, I suppose you can knock yourself out in this thread, it'll give you lots of "ammo": 

http://www.reddit.co..._bible_totally/

FUnnily enough if you scroll far enough down, you'll even see the same verse you posted. In other words you've made a parody of yourself.

 

Now one final time, since you don't seem to be able to understand this, and also because I'm trying to bring the discussion back on topic from you just trying to bash every religion on earth with blanket statements that you not only can't prove, but is also incredibly devoid of fact (the Bible is very historically accurate. In fact Jesus was one of the most well recorded people of his time period. Pretty good for someone who's a work of fiction). Because that is in no way a controversial, inflammatory thing to do.

What follows may also function as a TL;DR since you've decided not to read posts incredibly important to your clearly incomplete education before because "Too long":

Yes, the Bible has violence in it. No, the Bible does not tell people to do violent things any time after we move into the new covenant, which is the covenant Christians currently follow. The most extremist of Christian groups do not harm people physically. The most they do is say "God hates _____".

Whether or not Islam support violence, is clearly more controversial to say the least. The most extremist group of Islam, goes around killing anyone and everyone who is not their exact brand of belief, and kidnap ad behead people, then post the video online. They fly planes into buildings. They kill unarmed soldiers. They kill unarmed children.

To say, or even suggest that a religion that says not support gay acts, and at most makes people say that they are hated to someone, is the same thing as a religion that at most makes people commit mass international genocide, and declare war on the entire world, is incredibly, unfathomably stupid.

 

Also "I'm not atheist.I just know all religion is BS. I believe in other possibilities but every religion on earth is fiction

Lmbo you're hilarious.

 

EDIT: Hooray, I found the joke in that reddit thread

"Then he went away and hanged himself." -Matthew 27:5

"Jesus told him, 'Go and do likewise.'" -Luke 10:37


Edited by WydrA, 18 December 2014 - 12:12 PM.

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#29 NintendoReport

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 12:45 PM

I am going to let this conversation continue for now. Just keep in mind, everyone please be respectful of each other, watch flaming/baiting and don't get out of hand. It's sometimes fine to agree to disagree. Make your point, respond etc.


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#30 Raiden

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:34 PM

I am going to let this conversation continue for now. Just keep in mind, everyone please be respectful of each other, watch flaming/baiting and don't get out of hand. It's sometimes fine to agree to disagree. Make your point, respond etc.

Nah can't argue make believe books with members for the short time being I can't see.



#31 KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:47 PM



Nah can't argue make believe books with members for the short time being I can't see.

 



Nah can't argue make believe books with members for the short time being I can't see.

Indeed you can't argue, because you've shown you know practically nothing about any of them. Also this isn't argument it's a debate, one that you don't even have the grace to admit you clearly have inferior knowledge about, instead you chose to pretend you're some elite Savant on the subject, casting consistent accurate events that were recorded elsewhere historically with disdain you have no reason to show, calling them "fiction". Yes, I suppose all the history we know before 0 a.d is fiction as well then.

All you've done is prove that you know nothing about the subject you arrogantly pretend to be the leading expert on. Honestly, all you've done in this thread is pompously and aggressively attempt to defend a religion you later callled idiotic in what appears to be some faltering attempt at displaying superiority that, I'm afraid to tell you, you don't have. You showed up, got angry at comments that were much more factual and based in the real world than any of the things you said, threw some flaming poop at everyone who wasn't you, then pretended you were somehow above everyone else when you got told. In short, you behaved like a child. And that's coming from me, who is half your age.

If you don't know how to maturely discuss topics as expansive and controversial as religion, just remain quiet and don't say anything at all. Or as the Bible put it "Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. [Proverbs 17:28] You can look that one up as well. You'll find it's one of the few you don't need context to understand.


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#32 NintendoReport

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:57 PM

Neither of you took my advice.


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