36 replies to this topic

[Atticus]

http://ca.ign.com/ar...ome-an-epidemic

 

"Super Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakuraibelieves the abuse of downloadable content has become a growing problem within the industry, as more and more companies use it as an opportunity to take advantage of content-hungry gamers.

"These days, the 'DLC scam' has become quite the epidemic, charging customers extra money to complete what was essentially an unfinished product," he explained in his latest Famitsu column, as translated by Source Gaming."

[Tom]

Is he subtly implying that the bonus characters for Smash will be free?

[Raiden]

Charging money for Mii costumes......

 

I agree with him tho and for the most part Nintendo has handeled DLC how you are supposed to. PC games in the 90's did Expansion packs and expanded the games..sometimes was like getting a full new game. MK8 DLC is very much like that.

 

Most developers treat DLC like this.

[Elric]

It's really frustrating when you are expecting a full game. I'm hoping it will die off, but I know that micro-transactions make the money these days. 

[Atticus]

I despise it and I don't see this practice dieing off unless there is some sort of legislation against it.

[NintendoReport]

The age of the internet is what helped certain devs/publishers become lazy. Before, you needed to make sure a game was as bug free as possible and that it was complete. Now companies know they can send a patch out that will be required before you can even play the game because it's broken. I know games have gotten more complex and bigger but it's really quite disgusting what some get away with.

 

I wish we could go back in time and have expansion packs. Nintendo has done DLC pretty well with MK8, Pikmin 3, Luigi U etc.

[DexterousGecko]

lets be honest here, mario 1 was a very small fraction of the game that new games are in terms of content and manhours/resources. Yes, there are nasty dlc practices, but some devs release a full game, and continue working on the game releasing new things as dlc. That I dont mind, in fact I really enjoy it. I love finishing with a game and feeling like it's complete, then having somehting added on for a few bucks.

 

Stop pretending dlc is the devil.

[Raiden]

lets be honest here, mario 1 was a very small fraction of the game that new games are in terms of content and manhours/resources. Yes, there are nasty dlc practices, but some devs release a full game, and continue working on the game releasing new things as dlc. That I dont mind, in fact I really enjoy it. I love finishing with a game and feeling like it's complete, then having somehting added on for a few bucks.

 

Stop pretending dlc is the devil.

 Yes Nintendo sincerly apologizes that NES in 1985 did not have 25GB discs and 40 hours of content. Also this is not saying DLC is evil it's the DLC practices most developes do with it.

[CUD]

I'm seeing some "DLC sucks but it's ok when Nintendo does it." Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Nintendo has some unique DLC practices when theirs is more like the last-gen option in the image posted by Ryudo.

 

Charging money for Mii costumes......

 

I agree with him tho and for the most part Nintendo has handeled DLC how you are supposed to. PC games in the 90's did Expansion packs and expanded the games..sometimes was like getting a full new game. MK8 DLC is very much like that.

 

Most developers treat DLC like this.

 

How is MK8 DLC like '90s DLC when they have multiple DLC packs at $7.99? As I mentioned above, it's much closer to the last-gen option here. Not to mention SSB is charging $6.5 AUD for a single character...

[Raiden]

I'm seeing some "DLC sucks but it's ok when Nintendo does it." Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Nintendo has some unique DLC practices when theirs is more like the last-gen option in the image posted by Ryudo.

 

 

How is MK8 DLC like '90s DLC when they have multiple DLC packs at $7.99? As I mentioned above, it's much closer to the last-gen option here. Not to mention SSB is charging $6.5 AUD for a single character...

For 12 bucks you get entirely new tracks and get Half a game. For 12 dollars you get almost 50% more game for a 60 dollar game. So that is cheap.  It's not like a new mission in parts of a game that already exist like say Metal Gear Rising for example. They gave new new missions but in areas of the game that existed on the original game,tho was free but there are games charge 10 bucks for that and it lasted 20 minutes. Mario Kart 8 did not give you a new objective to race on the same tracks. They created almost an entirely new game for an existing one. Take DIablo II for example. It added 4 new acts. New enemies some new assets and made some tweaks to make the game better and MK8 is the same thing.

 

Mario Kart 8 retroactively added changes like 200cc,online stability,several new characters,cars,tracks and such. Last gen often just took assets already there and gave you a new mode that should have been in the game in the first place. If you are saying all that should have been in Mario Kart 8 in the first place then some people feel entitled when they should not.

A good deal of last gen DLC is a new quest or mission in areas you been before and could have easily been in the game day 1 on disc.

Edited by Ryudo, 24 April 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[CUD]

For 12 bucks you get entirely new tracks and get Half a game. For 12 dollars you get almost 50% more game for a 60 dollar game. So that is cheap.  It's not like a new mission in parts of a game that already exist like say Metal Gear Rising for example. They gave new new missions but in areas of the game that existed on the original game,tho was free but there are games charge 10 bucks for that and it lasted 20 minutes. Mario Kart 8 did not give you a new objective to race on the same tracks. They created almost an entirely new game for an existing one. Take DIablo II for example. It added 4 new acts. New enemies some new assets and made some tweaks to make the game better and MK8 is the same thing.

 

Mario Kart 8 retroactively added changes like 200cc,online stability,several new characters,cars,tracks and such. Last gen often just took assets already there and gave you a new mode that should have been in the game in the first place. If you are saying all that should have been in Mario Kart 8 in the first place then some people feel entitled when they should not.

A good deal of last gen DLC is a new quest or mission in areas you been before and could have easily been in the game day 1 on disc.

 

MK8's handling of DLC seems pretty good, especially since they're giving us free updates too. It's hard to categorise though and I've never liked that image itself, it just generalises so many games into categories of 'last-gen' and 'next-gen' when plenty of games handle DLC just fine. This hatred of DLC rubs me the wrong way the title of this thread is just how these people act when anything anti-DLC is said as if it's revolutionary for the industry when Sakurai is charging $6.5 AUD for an individual character in SSB... Compared to MK8's approach to DLC that isn't such a good way to go about DLC especially when Sakurai complains about 'DLC scams'...

 

I haven't dealt with enough 'last-gen' DLC to agree with that last statement, though it's not surprising that some games do that. The problem is that people incorrectly label games with DLC to be unfinished and the devs/publishers to be selling the rest of the game as DLC which is the idea that image conveys and an idea that is too often incorrectly applied to games. Gamers do often feel entitled to more content and then complain that they have to pay for more content as DLC when I find with the games that I buy the DLC just adds to an already complete game, if we didn't have the option of DLC we'd be charged more for expansion packs or wouldn't get this content at all until a sequel.

 

Overall I dislike people's opposition to DLC because I feel it gives us gamers more good than it does bad.

Edited by CUD, 24 April 2015 - 11:09 PM.

[Raiden]

DLC is great in idea but many developers treated it badly,some do it well like Dragon Age Origins Awakening. Look at Capcom. They locked DLC on the disc. The game you bought the DLC wa son the physical copy but you had to pay extra to get that content on the disc you already paid for. That was not the exception either. It happened a lot but Capcom did it the worst. Madden 2006 charged you for extra uniforms for teams,something that was always a given in the game to begin with. Thankfully since they dropped that but others do the same. 5-6 bucks for a chracter makes sense tho. A single character is a lot of work and that's just general how fighting games have worked since Street Fighter II. If you don't get that then you don't get how the fighting game scene works. If Mewtwo was on the disc at launch but paid to unlock now then yeah be total BS.

 

 

DLC/Expansion packs is meant to be getting more out of the game and expanding on it and that is a great thing. Problem is many times and become the rule not the exception that it's not expanding the game but paying for something that is kinda there already and even getting worse where look at Driveclub. That was a hot mess and took months before it was playable. Same with ACU or Halo MC on XBO ship it now patch it later. Some of these things are day 1 DLC for things that should have been fixed before shipping. DLC is a wonderful thing but often treated badly.

[CUD]

DLC is great in idea but many developers treated it badly,some do it well like Dragon Age Origins Awakening. Look at Capcom. They locked DLC on the disc. The game you bought the DLC wa son the physical copy but you had to pay extra to get that content on the disc you already paid for. That was not the exception either. It happened a lot but Capcom did it the worst. Madden 2006 charged you for extra uniforms for teams,something that was always a given in the game to begin with. Thankfully since they dropped that but others do the same. 5-6 bucks for a chracter makes sense tho. A single character is a lot of work and that's just general how fighting games have worked since Street Fighter II. If you don't get that then you don't get how the fighting game scene works. If Mewtwo was on the disc at launch but paid to unlock now then yeah be total BS.

 

 

DLC/Expansion packs is meant to be getting more out of the game and expanding on it and that is a great thing. Problem is many times and become the rule not the exception that it's not expanding the game but paying for something that is kinda there already and even getting worse where look at Driveclub. That was a hot mess and took months before it was playable. Same with ACU or Halo MC on XBO ship it now patch it later. Some of these things are day 1 DLC for things that should have been fixed before shipping. DLC is a wonderful thing but often treated badly.

 

The whole 'locked content on the disc' thing isn't really a big deal if you ask me, it really depends on the game itself but it being on the disc but locked for a fee isn't an issue in itself. Since we're just the consumers who are we to say what is the full game? We don't have a say in it so what they give us is the full game as much as some people will feel entitled to that DLC they're just not. What's the difference if they had this content ready at launch compared to them locking it on the disc? There isn't really.

 

Well sure characters in fighters are more important than those in Mario Kart but $6.50 AUD per character still seems like a bit much. Are they giving players free content like maps and whatnot too? The only Street Fighter (SFIV, USFIV and SFxT) games on Steam appear to include all of the characters, Mortal Kombat X on the other hand is charging $4.99 USD for Goro and they are actually offering easy fatality DLC and that DLC that some games do of being able to unlock things that you would normally get from just playing the game with a single DLC purchase. I don't think fighters should be charging that much for individual characters, Nintendo isn't the type of company to offer a season pass so to own all the characters you're going to have to fork out quite a bit of money.

 

Sometimes they have strict deadlines set by publishers so I'm at least thankful when these issues are patched up quickly but if the game is broken or unplayable then it should not have even shipped in the first place. I'm not sure that I'd agree that it is often treated badly but it is at least at times.

[Raiden]

Then you like to be cheated with dirty practices and don't know what you want and have no right to complain about 6 dollar characters. You choose to be selectively self entitled. Can't help you. Goodbye. But you are flat wrong.

 

 

The whole 'locked content on the disc' thing isn't really a big deal if you ask me,

 

Edited by Ryudo, 25 April 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Atticus]

 Also this is not saying DLC is evil it's the DLC practices most developers do with it.

 

^This! I love when DLC is done right and Nintendo (first party) generally gets this right (so far). The way it was meant to be used (portrayed) like it was when the concept was first introduced in the gaming industry. The only other example for me that I can remember of doing this really right was Gears of War 3. Released a very full, satisfying polished game and the season pass gave SO much more extra content. There are more examples sure but nothing I can think of off the top of my head. The SFxT 12 characters on disc thing was disgusting and if not for the things I really loved about Capcom like Mega Man, Dead Rising, etc. I would have boycotted them altogether, but I certainly did not buy any DLC for that title.

 

It really becomes blatant now how this concept is abused. Don't even get me started on "Day One" DLC! (that you have to pay for) Really?! And wait, I have to pay for a MP game mode that generally has shipped with games since the beginning of time? The problem with all this is that consumers are now conditioned to it and it will probably never really change.

 

Nintendo has done season passes but when they release DLC without them there are usually bundle offers that so far are priced way better than the common price we are used to for a season pass. $12 for Mario Kart and it pretty much doubled the content of the game and what previous MKs had (track-wise). Mario Golf: World Tour had a season pass for $15 which doubled course content of that and previous titles and added a few extra characters but the game even sold for $5 less than normal retail to begin with. Unless anyone has more/other examples, to me Nintendo (first party) are the only folks that are consistent with reasonably priced DLC. 

 

DLC is not "The Devil" and has been responsible for great things but in my opinion it's been used more wrongly that it has been rightfully by devs/publishers or whoever else is in charge of such content.

[CUD]

 

Then you like to be cheated with dirty practices and don't know what you want and have no right to complain about 6 dollar characters. You choose to be selectively self entitled. Can't help you. Goodbye. But you are flat wrong.

 

 

Self entitled to what?

 

What if the SSB characters and the MK8 characters and tracks were all ready before the game was shipped but decided to be sold later as DLC? They weren't on the disc but they had planned it as DLC so essentially this would be the same thing as them locking it on the disc, this could very well have been the case and it really wouldn't matter if it was because we don't decide what is the full game the devs/publishers do.

 

I'm not sure how you can claim that I'm self entitled when you're the one that thinks they're entitled to characters that the devs decided weren't part of the base game, that being the game without any DLC content purchased.

 

Never mind, if you really don't want to have an actual discussion then don't bother responding. Simply telling me I'm "flat wrong", that you "can't help [me]" and "goodbye" as if I said something so terrible. "I disagree so you're wrong!" Damn, you win this one...

 

^This! I love when DLC is done right and Nintendo (first party) generally gets this right (so far). The way it was meant to be used (portrayed) like it was when the concept was first introduced in the gaming industry. The only other example for me that I can remember of doing this really right was Gears of War 3. Released a very full, satisfying polished game and the season pass gave SO much more extra content. There are more examples sure but nothing I can think of off the top of my head. The SFxT 12 characters on disc thing was disgusting and if not for the things I really loved about Capcom like Mega Man, Dead Rising, etc. I would have boycotted them altogether, but I certainly did not buy any DLC for that title.

 

It really becomes blatant now how this concept is abused. Don't even get me started on "Day One" DLC! (that you have to pay for) Really?! And wait, I have to pay for a MP game mode that generally has shipped with games since the beginning of time? The problem with all this is that consumers are now conditioned to it and it will probably never really change.

 

Nintendo has done season passes but when they release DLC without them there are usually bundle offers that so far are priced way better than the common price we are used to for a season pass. $12 for Mario Kart and it pretty much doubled the content of the game and what previous MKs had (track-wise). Mario Golf: World Tour had a season pass for $15 which doubled course content of that and previous titles and added a few extra characters but the game even sold for $5 less than normal retail to begin with. Unless anyone has more/other examples, to me Nintendo (first party) are the only folks that are consistent with reasonably priced DLC. 

 

DLC is not "The Devil" and has been responsible for great things but in my opinion it's been used more wrongly that it has been rightfully by devs/publishers or whoever else is in charge of such content.

 

Which games charge for a multiplayer game mode? Just curious as to what game/s you were referring to there.

 

I can't really comment on games like Mario Golf but from what you said it seems they handled the DLC well. Do you think they are charging too much for an individual SSB character?

 

The thing is that I see so much hate for DLC itself when it should be taken on a case by case basis. Some games have plenty of content to begin with so I don't mind there being additional content even if it is available at launch, I'm glad there is the option for DLC when it is used properly because it extends the life/length of a game. I know you oppose day one DLC but why is that? Why do people feel entitled to all content at launch? If we look at games with DLC on a case by case basis we can decide whether the base game has enough content which I feel would make DLC at launch not a big deal because there's already a full game so optional additional content available at launch shouldn't be an issue.

[Raiden]

No it's not a matter of disagreement. You are just flat wrong and you don't get it and likely won't.

[CUD]

No it's not a matter of disagreement. You are just flat wrong and you don't get it and likely won't.

 

The best you can give me is "you're wrong and I'm right" instead of attempting to have an actual discussion.

 

This is just pathetic. I would expect someone who spends so much time on forums to want an actual discussion but I suppose that's too much to ask of some people.

 

Why even bother? I feel like I'm getting trolled so hard when I attempt to discuss things with you simply because you turn things into an argument when I'm patiently attempting to have a civil discussion. Just separate your emotional investment from these topics so you can have an intelligent conversation instead of ranting and raving about how right you are.

[Raiden]

Only one being emotional is you right now man so chill out and now you are trying to change the subject. Already explained it nothing more to be said and no I don't spend much time here. Gone most the day. Just post in a bunches then head off. I'm chillin man. You pick wierd battles like Splatoon voice chat and compared it to other team based shooters. You say on disc DLC is A ok. You get all upset over something some company did that is no big deal. Now you are heading off topic. Don't like it don't respond. You are free to be wrong as many times as you want. Not my fault yo. Don't take this personally but with a heart ready to blow up at any moment in my face I honestly don't have the time to care about you to do anything to you.

So I'm out. I don't hate you or like you I have no feelings towards someone I don't know and would have to care to do anything to someone. I'm just telling you how it is and you can't accept it. Fine by me. Carry on. Life moves on.

Edited by Ryudo, 25 April 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Marcus]

I despise it and I don't see this practice dieing off unless there is some sort of legislation against it.

 

Yeah, you have the exact opposite thought process as I do.

 

My position is that there should never ever be legislation for any of it. People should just educate themselves and vote with their money more responsibly. The government should only ever intervene in the market when there's actual harm being done. Not when people are being willing fools.

Edited by MarcusT, 25 April 2015 - 09:27 PM.