58 replies to this topic

[Soul]

Well the Zelda demo was rushed and is only in 420p so I wonder what it means to take your time and have it in 1080p. That would be epic!


Well take into account that this is the era that all there was is 32 bit game systems so this looks like Unreal Engine 4 to those back then.

Bad example cuz UE4 didnt look that good.

[neverwinteru]

Bad example cuz UE4 didnt look that good.

to be fair you haven't seen it in motion as opposed to the zelda hd demo. Nothing looks as good when its just a screenshot.

......except racer's

Edited by Misterrrrrr ECHO3!, 24 May 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Socalmuscle]

The Zelda tech demo looks sick, but the bird demo looks a little bit like a PS3 game...

Off topic for Sony haters
Seriously, what does everyone has against Sony? It's just lies. Both Sony and Microsoft is not kind against Nintendo because they are competitors. I know that Sony copies some ideas from Nintendo. But so does Microsoft and Nintendo. Nintendo copied the AR thing from Sony. Now they are going to "copy" the idea of a strong console with a good online experience i.e Microsoft's idea of their console.

Rememberer about the Nintendo Playstation also:
http://en.wikipedia....ndo_PlayStation

The industry works this way, people taking inspiration from each other. People betraying and so on. It all has a goal, to earn money.

Also a XBOX 360 with live in a few years (assuming you get a console made for online to play online) costs more than a PS3 and a Wii

The reason Sony is thought of as evil is something they brought upon themselves - by being evil.

They stole the play station tech from Nintendo, who designed much of it. Sony was supplying the optical drive and engineering which Nintendo knew little of. Nintendo decided to not bring an add on to the snes and Sony saw a legal loophole through which they could take Nintendo technology as their own.

Nintendo came out with a vastly superior console in the n64. But it had a handicap. Storage. Cartridges were over at this point and Sony got a leg up through that. Some of it was dumb decision making by Nintendo and some was Sony being evil.

Sony also strong armed retailers who were selling dream cast. They wouldn't give them ps2 systems until they stopped selling dream cast. Evil.

Nintendo invents idea of powerful console with snes (and failed play station add on)
Sony copies (or steals...)

Nintendo invest analog sticks.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents the rumble pack.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents motion controls.
Sony copies.

Etc. etc.

It's not rocket science.
Sony didn't get it's rep by mistake. Your actions do follow you. Sony has earned a reputation. Now they have to live with it. Facts are facts. Calling it "hate" is a cop out.

Nintendo has a history of innovation.
If they happen to increase their online gaming. That isn't copying. And ms didn't invent the Internet, online gaming, online shopping, purchasing music, movies, etc.

So Nintendo isn't copying there.
Microsoft did copy the Mii thing.

Let's get real here snes give credit where it's due.

Nintendo has endured lean seasons along with plenteous seasons just to stay true to their core values. Have to appreciate that.

And no way is some mega corp (that somehow has become financially much less so over the years) going to get the credit for brazenly stealing and benefitting from a Nintendo who was trying to branch out in the motion control arena.

Now, the field is level again. Nintendos packing futuristic next gen power, yet another console gaming innovation, and they deserve every console sale they make.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 24 May 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Ravyu]

Why can't I view any pictures?

[Keviin]

The reason Sony is thought of as evil is something they brought upon themselves - by being evil.

They stole the play station tech from Nintendo, who designed much of it. Sony was supplying the optical drive and engineering which Nintendo knew little of. Nintendo decided to not bring an add on to the snes and Sony saw a legal loophole through which they could take Nintendo technology as their own.

Nintendo came out with a vastly superior console in the n64. But it had a handicap. Storage. Cartridges were over at this point and Sony got a leg up through that. Some of it was dumb decision making by Nintendo and some was Sony being evil.

Sony also strong armed retailers who were selling dream cast. They wouldn't give them ps2 systems until they stopped selling dream cast. Evil.

Nintendo invents idea of powerful console with snes (and failed play station add on)
Sony copies (or steals...)

Nintendo invest analog sticks.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents the rumble pack.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents motion controls.
Sony copies.

Etc. etc.

It's not rocket science.
Sony didn't get it's rep by mistake. Your actions do follow you. Sony has earned a reputation. Now they have to live with it. Facts are facts. Calling it "hate" is a cop out.

Nintendo has a history of innovation.
If they happen to increase their online gaming. That isn't copying. And ms didn't invent the Internet, online gaming, online shopping, purchasing music, movies, etc.

So Nintendo isn't copying there.
Microsoft did copy the Mii thing.

Let's get real here snes give credit where it's due.

Nintendo has endured lean seasons along with plenteous seasons just to stay true to their core values. Have to appreciate that.

And no way is some mega corp (that somehow has become financially much less so over the years) going to get the credit for brazenly stealing and benefitting from a Nintendo who was trying to branch out in the motion control arena.

Now, the field is level again. Nintendos packing futuristic next gen power, yet another console gaming innovation, and they deserve every console sale they make.

You sir, made my day, and it only just began.

I bet Sony will come up with a tablet controller too.

[Hinkik]

The reason Sony is thought of as evil is something they brought upon themselves - by being evil.

They stole the play station tech from Nintendo, who designed much of it. Sony was supplying the optical drive and engineering which Nintendo knew little of. Nintendo decided to not bring an add on to the snes and Sony saw a legal loophole through which they could take Nintendo technology as their own.

Nintendo came out with a vastly superior console in the n64. But it had a handicap. Storage. Cartridges were over at this point and Sony got a leg up through that. Some of it was dumb decision making by Nintendo and some was Sony being evil.

Sony also strong armed retailers who were selling dream cast. They wouldn't give them ps2 systems until they stopped selling dream cast. Evil.

Nintendo invents idea of powerful console with snes (and failed play station add on)
Sony copies (or steals...)

Nintendo invest analog sticks.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents the rumble pack.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents motion controls.
Sony copies.

Etc. etc.

It's not rocket science.
Sony didn't get it's rep by mistake. Your actions do follow you. Sony has earned a reputation. Now they have to live with it. Facts are facts. Calling it "hate" is a cop out.

Nintendo has a history of innovation.
If they happen to increase their online gaming. That isn't copying. And ms didn't invent the Internet, online gaming, online shopping, purchasing music, movies, etc.

So Nintendo isn't copying there.
Microsoft did copy the Mii thing.

Let's get real here snes give credit where it's due.

Nintendo has endured lean seasons along with plenteous seasons just to stay true to their core values. Have to appreciate that.

And no way is some mega corp (that somehow has become financially much less so over the years) going to get the credit for brazenly stealing and benefitting from a Nintendo who was trying to branch out in the motion control arena.

Now, the field is level again. Nintendos packing futuristic next gen power, yet another console gaming innovation, and they deserve every console sale they make.

You're wrong, Sony didn't copy anything about the nintendo stuff. The creator of playstation made everything himself, watch the documentary about sony on youtube (it's been ripped)

Also XBOX copied everything you said sony copied nintendo.

Nintendo copied a lot of the other two also this is the industry.

[neverwinteru]

The reason Sony is thought of as evil is something they brought upon themselves - by being evil.

They stole the play station tech from Nintendo, who designed much of it. Sony was supplying the optical drive and engineering which Nintendo knew little of. Nintendo decided to not bring an add on to the snes and Sony saw a legal loophole through which they could take Nintendo technology as their own.

Nintendo came out with a vastly superior console in the n64. But it had a handicap. Storage. Cartridges were over at this point and Sony got a leg up through that. Some of it was dumb decision making by Nintendo and some was Sony being evil.

Sony also strong armed retailers who were selling dream cast. They wouldn't give them ps2 systems until they stopped selling dream cast. Evil.

Nintendo invents idea of powerful console with snes (and failed play station add on)
Sony copies (or steals...)

Nintendo invest analog sticks.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents the rumble pack.
Sony copies.

Nintendo invents motion controls.
Sony copies.

Etc. etc.

It's not rocket science.
Sony didn't get it's rep by mistake. Your actions do follow you. Sony has earned a reputation. Now they have to live with it. Facts are facts. Calling it "hate" is a cop out.

Nintendo has a history of innovation.
If they happen to increase their online gaming. That isn't copying. And ms didn't invent the Internet, online gaming, online shopping, purchasing music, movies, etc.

So Nintendo isn't copying there.
Microsoft did copy the Mii thing.

Let's get real here snes give credit where it's due.

Nintendo has endured lean seasons along with plenteous seasons just to stay true to their core values. Have to appreciate that.

And no way is some mega corp (that somehow has become financially much less so over the years) going to get the credit for brazenly stealing and benefitting from a Nintendo who was trying to branch out in the motion control arena.

Now, the field is level again. Nintendos packing futuristic next gen power, yet another console gaming innovation, and they deserve every console sale they make.

I love Nintendo but please stop trying to make them look like they haven't copied any tech from another company and improved on it.

[Soul]

to be fair you haven't seen it in motion as opposed to the zelda hd demo. Nothing looks as good when its just a screenshot.

......except racer's

New Cryengine update looks good.

[neverwinteru]

thats a render of a human though. im sure unreal 4 can produce that same quality they just opted to use a fantasy setting.

[Nin_Stream]

That was what it would look like in game if they were real games. And no PS3 and Xbox 360 can only do 720p and 30 fps. Wii U does 1080p and 60 fps.

Will this be in-game graphics?

If yes, do you think current gen consoles can produce this?

[Usman Mohammad]

I love Nintendo but please stop trying to make them look like they haven't copied any tech from another company and improved on it.

This.

Nintendo fanboys/sony haters calm down. Sony etc didn't steal most things, they took a standard and went with it. Rumble, it enhances gaming experience, nowadays you have to be really stupid (like sony 2006 stupid) to not put rumble in a controller and the same thing goes with analog controls.

After the wiiU is out that second screen is going to be the norm, and of course thats what enhances the gaming experience further.

Apple was one of the first out with multi touch yet we see numerous things with multi touch. Is that stealing? No, that became the norm and enhanced our experience using mobile devices.

If console makers didn't put analog control it would be outrageous nowadays, its a norm that consumers have been used to and are more than happy more companies adopt these features as a standard.

Edited by Usman Mohammad, 26 May 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Joshua]

Now that I look at that picture of the Koi Fish, I suddenly want to eat it.

[Hinkik]

Bad example cuz UE4 didnt look that good.

How does this not look good?



This looks a lot better than the wii u zelda demo imo.

[Socalmuscle]

Nintendo copied a lot of the other two also this is the industry.

Sony ripped Nintendo with the ps. It was one of the items that made Nintendo less of a trusting company and more of a legal one.

Also, every area I listed Sony as copying is pure fact. No denying it. Let's be grown ups here.

Also, there are certain things that are standards in the industry that doesn't make sense to call copying.

Web browsing, avatars, chat, downloading and uploading, online gameplay, etc were all copies of
PC gaming. Now on console. No one ripped it off. It was industry standard stuff.

Can't think of a single thing Nintendo copied from Sony or ms but can easily point to a list of things they have copied.

Having a CPU, gpu, working, storage medium, and input/output mechanism are all basic computing requirements that apply to consoles as well. Add online interaction these days.

That's all the basics. How you go about turning those basics into an experience is what innovation is all about - something Nintendo has done in spades since the NES.

Microsoft and Sony have copied and gaming is the better for it. Nintendo even freely allowed it as a company that genuinely cares about the gaming ecosystem.

Gamers, Sony, and Microsoft all owe much gratitude to Nintendo. And it adds up to much more than Mario or Zelda.

How does this not look good?



This looks a lot better than the wii u zelda demo imo.

To be honest, the unreal 4 demo was a bit underwhelming.

Does it look great? You bet.

But it seems to still have the issue of not switching to higher res textures when the camera is close and extremely close (something the first two unreal engines did admirably). This can look amazing at a distance, but look slightly muddy up close. Cryengine 3 also suffers from this.

The ue4 demo also did not demonstrate great polygon efficiency or any special texture effects. That was something of a shock.

However, the particle effects and real time lighting are going to really pick up in the next couple of years and games will look like you just stepped out of your home into the world.

The ue4 demo looked on par with ue3.5 Samaritan demo but with less polygonal complexity and more lighting/ polygon effects.
The engine isn't fully baked yet.

As it was, it lOoked less crisp than the Zelda demo, but with much more of the same lighting effects going on in that room with the spider. Also, the unreal 4 evil character was more detailed geometrically than the spider in the Zelda demo (which was based off of unreal 3 on very early hardware).

Ue4 impressed with that demo no doubt. But we have become spoiled concerning high quality, so it's hard to discern the subtle differences without breaking it down and knowing what to look for.

The games using ue4 will outdo the tech demo by a large margin. The consoles are going to need some ram.

[Hinkik]

Sony ripped Nintendo with the ps. It was one of the items that made Nintendo less of a trusting company and more of a legal one.

Also, every area I listed Sony as copying is pure fact. No denying it. Let's be grown ups here.

Also, there are certain things that are standards in the industry that doesn't make sense to call copying.

Web browsing, avatars, chat, downloading and uploading, online gameplay, etc were all copies of
PC gaming. Now on console. No one ripped it off. It was industry standard stuff.

Can't think of a single thing Nintendo copied from Sony or ms but can easily point to a list of things they have copied.

Having a CPU, gpu, working, storage medium, and input/output mechanism are all basic computing requirements that apply to consoles as well. Add online interaction these days.

That's all the basics. How you go about turning those basics into an experience is what innovation is all about - something Nintendo has done in spades since the NES.

Microsoft and Sony have copied and gaming is the better for it. Nintendo even freely allowed it as a company that genuinely cares about the gaming ecosystem.

Gamers, Sony, and Microsoft all owe much gratitude to Nintendo. And it adds up to much more than Mario or Zelda.

I still don't think you understand the industry. If you think the playstation was a rip off the snes then Nintendo ripped off the atari consoles. The snes and the playstation 1 was very different. The only thing I can come up with is that both is consoles.

Also sony didn't use any parts of snes to make a their console. The playstation had a cd, 3d graphics (polygons), cd player well you get the idea.

They both have different audiences.

To be honest, the unreal 4 demo was a bit underwhelming.

Does it look great? You bet.

But it seems to still have the issue of not switching to higher res textures when the camera is close and extremely close (something the first two unreal engines did admirably). This can look amazing at a distance, but look slightly muddy up close. Cryengine 3 also suffers from this.

The ue4 demo also did not demonstrate great polygon efficiency or any special texture effects. That was something of a shock.

However, the particle effects and real time lighting are going to really pick up in the next couple of years and games will look like you just stepped out of your home into the world.

The ue4 demo looked on par with ue3.5 Samaritan demo but with less polygonal complexity and more lighting/ polygon effects.
The engine isn't fully baked yet.

As it was, it lOoked less crisp than the Zelda demo, but with much more of the same lighting effects going on in that room with the spider. Also, the unreal 4 evil character was more detailed geometrically than the spider in the Zelda demo (which was based off of unreal 3 on very early hardware).

Ue4 impressed with that demo no doubt. But we have become spoiled concerning high quality, so it's hard to discern the subtle differences without breaking it down and knowing what to look for.

The games using ue4 will outdo the tech demo by a large margin. The consoles are going to need some ram.

Dude, the polygon count is insane on the UE4 demo, also textures is not about the engine it's about if you put in more high res textures or not. And I don't even think the textures looks blurry near it's probably because of a depth of field effect.

Also there isn't something called texture effects... if don't mean bump, normals and stuff like that which have to do with the shader and UE already supports them and even tessellation.

Also another insane thing with UE4 is the super high res particle system which also seems to support motion blur and particle shadowing and glowing. That is really neat.

Is this not enough polygons?


We don't even know the specs of the system which this demo ran on. Maybe it's on a xbox 720 or a PC with a three-way gtx 680 sli?

Edited by Hinkik, 27 May 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Blasty]

I don't know anything about the Playstation and SNES stuff so I won't comment on it. However, you can't deny that Sony and Microsoft DID copy Nintendo on some aspects.

[Socalmuscle]

I still don't think you understand the industry. If you think the playstation was a rip off the snes then Nintendo ripped off the atari consoles. The snes and the playstation 1 was very different. The only thing I can come up with is that both is consoles.

Also sony didn't use any parts of snes to make a their console. The playstation had a cd, 3d graphics (polygons), cd player well you get the idea.

They both have different audiences.



Dude, the polygon count is insane on the UE4 demo, also textures is not about the engine it's about if you put in more high res textures or not. And I don't even think the textures looks blurry near it's probably because of a depth of field effect.

Also there isn't something called texture effects... if don't mean bump, normals and stuff like that which have to do with the shader and UE already supports them and even tessellation.

Also another insane thing with UE4 is the super high res particle system which also seems to support motion blur and particle shadowing and glowing. That is really neat.

Is this not enough polygons?


We don't even know the specs of the system which this demo ran on. Maybe it's on a xbox 720 or a PC with a three-way gtx 680 sli?

Wow. You really just missed the whole point.
I won't argue here.

Polygon count vs. unreal Engine 3 (limited by older hardware). Better? Of course. It should be. Insane? No.



There is a limitation on texture overlapping/blending/swapping and that poly count isn't insane. If you've never seen a wireframe before or are simply coming from wii level graphics, that would be insane. But in reality it isn't - primarily considering the fact that it's a tech demo that doesn't have to respond to all changing dynamics of an actual game.

As far as texture effects, that's what it boils down to. I don't need to go into all the various effects applied. I'll call them texture effects. Sounds less "cool" but that's all it is. Textures are like paint. Polygons are the surface. Textures can have many simultaneous effects applied them which change the appearance at all comers angles. It takes quite a bit of processing power and I hypothesize that is why the unreal 1 engine features can't be applied nowadays since these features weren't prevalent then and it's not a matter of if/then semantics (and even then you had to have a high end graphics card). Swapping out and blending in multiple levels of textures can kill performance with so many effects applied. In the close up of the monsters face, and even throughought the demo the textures are no better than ue3. And no, it's not just a matter of creating a higher resolution texture. It's a matter of the engine handling that increased data and scaling/ refresh, etc. then you have to figure out how to make that work with whatever hardware you have. Anyone can photoshop better textures. It's the game engine/ hardware combo that limits you.

Like I said, there is indeed an improvement over ue3, it's just not going to blow anyone away... Yet.

And the lighting/ particle effects were mentioned already. Very impressive and something you'll not see in ue3 to that degree. The Zelda demo was actually one of the more impressive real time lighting effects seen in ue3. Ue4 blows it out of the water. Lighting and particles are a key feature of ue4.

And for all you knew, it could have been running on wii u. But more in reality, it was running on a custom rig to handle all of the unoptimized code...

As far as Sony and nintendos "different audiences" that's a misnomer.

Nintendo and sega had the entire audience. When don't took the play station tech, they marketed to primarily a mature market. A little edgier. Nintendo lost the war with the superior n64 because of its storage format which limited it from going with at the time very popular fmv heavy games. NIntendo then started focusing more on the younger crowd. Then with the wii, everyone. But now they are going back to the hardcore + everyone philosophy.

Unreal and cryengine tech is foundational my helpful to that aim.

From this point forward, any idea of different audiences for nintendo vs ms vs Sony, etc. is only in imagination. The next gen consoles will all be powerful, all have games for a wide range of people, and different people will buy games that suit them regardless of console. Nintendo console will be powerful and many hardcore games available. Nintendo software will always be Mario, Zelda, metroid, etc. but then there will be the third party hardcore exclusives, the second party, etc.

It's a new generation. The wii era is over. Nintendo has done everything they can to give third parties everything they need to show off amazing games that will thrill all demographics areas for years to come.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 27 May 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Soul]

How does this not look good?



This looks a lot better than the wii u zelda demo imo.

I never said it looked bad i just said it didn't look as good as expected. He said "It will make UE3 look like crap and that's a lie.

And Crysis to UE4 picture is not as big as a leap from Mario to Mario 64.

Edited by Sportsgamer, 27 May 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[InsaneLaw]

I still don't think you understand the industry. If you think the playstation was a rip off the snes then Nintendo ripped off the atari consoles. The snes and the playstation 1 was very different. The only thing I can come up with is that both is consoles.

Also sony didn't use any parts of snes to make a their console. The playstation had a cd, 3d graphics (polygons), cd player well you get the idea.

They both have different audiences.

I think you should read this, of course the playstation isn't a rip off of the SNES, but it was originally meant to be a Nintendo Licensed console. Well The "Play Station" in place of the CD-i. Of course, they completely changed everything except the controller layout (hence why everything today is a SNES controller with add ons).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_PlayStation


Plus, the SNES had Polygons with the Super FX chip and Star Fox.