48 replies to this topic

[Nollog]

does it matter if they're out yet ...
one we mentioned was out days ago ... sc2: HOTS comes this year probably ... other 2 come early 2012 ... as a matter of fact console generations have nothing to do with pc games so i am not sure about what is your intent with comparin these very different worlds ... i never compare nintendos games wit PC games thats why i think for my self have been able to peacefully and effectively coexist ...

precisely explain your mentality behind your thinking so i can understand and reply further ... we might uncover the source of our disagreements which i welcome

We were discussing graphics.

[Stewox]

We were discussing graphics.

ah there we go ... graphics are a product of effort therefore we cannot accurately compare them by just picking random games ... graphics are a tradeoff - thats the big thing, it is all about tradeoffs ..... for a consumer is way more harder to objectively compare graphics by just looking at the completed products.
The developers know the true capabilities, its a lot more of details and complexity, even there it takes best of the best engineers in software.

consumers rarely have access to debug or dev modes let alone source code, but we can always dig up clues if we know.

We need to decipher what graphical element is a is a product of developer effort and what a simple tick of a switch from the hardware side.
The most obvious effort are textures and animations. The most obvious non-effort are post-process effects.

Tradeoffs ... most games aren't tech demos, they trade graphics for performance, they trade graphics for scope of the game world; interactivity and thus playability is not a part of a tech demo, because it takes away the resources. You cannot objectively compare different games with different engines with different developers with different dev teams with different programmers on different platforms, heck even the same game on different platforms because of the PC software Layer overheads i heavily talked about on this forums before, judging hardware by it.

No you cannot judge the hardware by comparing games.

People have a major mistake of perception when comparing screenshots of a game from different platforms, no, it does not represent the hardware, not at all. that particular comparrison is valid for that game only. And on top of that people compare different genres .... how big of a mistake van you make, you need to take the scope of the game world loaded into memory into account ... you need all the data all the statistics ... it goes deeper and im just not going to start with that cause short in time here ... these comparrisons we consumers are making are ridicolously inaccurate, if you must then you are comparing images of games eg screenshots in a basic way, never hardware.

With all of this in mind ... now see how big of a pointless idea it is to try to come with accurate predictions of how great would games would look like on an unreleased machine with barely any technical specs known( these rumors are verx basic specs only).

Here's the irony of it ... I'll tell you how WiiU games are going to look like:
They will look like how developers are going to make them (- TRADEOFFS), and certainly launch titles wont max out the system hardware, expect poor gfx ports such as darksiders 2 and aliens ... most obvious. Aliens a bit better but its a port nonetheless and gearbox is no optimization expert.
DOOM 4 anyone? ...

People that only care about graphics aren't gamers even if they consider them selfs to be. Probably people ejo wstch a lot of movies ... and Blizzard Cinematics Department keeps making sure those those people are kept at bay





This is not in full detail i could go, but you should get the picture.

[Nollog]

I didn't read it because your post was too long.

My original post was part making fun of the OP's English, then part commenting that PC Exclusive games can achieve a higher level of visual fidelity than those on consoles which are two years behind PC's by the time they are released, however the closed spec of consoles allows for on-par fidelity with PC's up to two years after the console was released.
But when a company doesn't try hard on the PC, it makes no difference. Usually they don't try if they're making the game for both consoles and PC.
Also, I highlighted the fact there's "no money" in PC Exclusive games anymore, with the new Call of Duty casual crowd who find it easier or more pleasurable to play on their TV's.

[Plutonas]

This is a pretty complex thing to address ... i will be as short as i can this time.

Everyone of you people think that UE4 is some kind of holy-engine of the ages that is going to struck the whole galaxy. Please stop thinking like that, those screenshots are without technical meaning, they prove some facts, but not enough, not at all to see what it will be on WiiU

The optimizations are not a simple thing as most people imagine, they need the most experience and knowledge, only a few companies are capable to fund and commercially release that, and to have the technical resources to successfuly experiment with that first, all of the other companies are just behind and come in later ...

How UE4 will work on WiiU is a question the screenshots do not specific the platform, and consoles rely on optimizations to get the most performance and capabilities out of them, it's all in tradeoffs, some developers take more performance than graphics. Some companies just don't have the technical skills ... a great example is gearbox software, they're not bad, but not the best, their animations are pretty bad and looking at the Alien's Colonial marines footage, graphically it could have been better, and how the stuff looks, it's standard gearbox, it doesn't make the game bad but still you can detect their effort put in those areas.

UE4 support for WiiU is not a question of working or not, it's a question of HOW IT IS WORKING, initially it's totally up to Epic's own effort put into the WiiU version of the engine, it's is their own standards of what is good enough and they'll ship version 1.0.

I just don't get people's way of thinking, software is not static, it's not just ON/OFF, it's complex, it's dynamic, it's dependant, it's efffffort, it can go into infinity how good it can be, there is no physical limit and you would call it "complete". Software companies make their own imaginary limits and then call it in double digit numbers, it's silly, that's just a commerical term, a brand, a marketing word, it doesn't mean anything, it's only a name, a reference. UE4 doesn't mean anything, we can comment it when we see it, it can be crap, it can be great, WiiU support might be great, might be crap too, who knows.

Epic games isn't going to make a perfect engine for one platform if they won't develop games for it, it's the devs of the game that take an engine and make it work as good as they can, most licensees will take UE4 and modify it to their needs.

UE4 can have DX11 support, can have tesselation, can have whatever, but HOW IT HAS IT... supporting something is not a matter of writting a line of code "init render_mode_DX11" done! ... no it's effort put into that, how good does it support is a matter how good the engine takes advantage of it, that takes time, time and effort and money and knowledge.

Every engine can support DX11 ... it can run in DX11 mode, and staying true to the statement, it's too simple, supporting it, doesn't mean it USES ALL of it's capabilities.



Nooo, you're wrong. PC hardware will be better instantly the WiiU comes out, PC hardware will be better instantly PS4 comes out, PC hardware will be better instantly X720 comes out.

Hardware is keeping up the moore's law, it's way ahead, game software is light-years behind. Software in games, is commerical, it's entertainment, with so many games, the people who are responsible for the drive of software and hardware are clearly overshadowed in all the mist.

Lives, security, safety don't rely on game software,bugs are only a consumer satisfaction issue.
Buggy hardware, can bring down the whole industry, can affect the enterprise, can affect the developers, it affects everyone, no matter what they do, that's why buggy hardware gets recalled if it's out of control, hardware parts get recycled or fixed, they don't recall games if they are buggy, software can be patched whatever it is wrong with it, but some don't care patching a lot, it's all

hardware companies cannot afford that, hardware is hardware, they cannot expect to exploit stupid people to buy it, if the hardware is buggy, nobody is going to be satisfied, the whole industry relys on them, they would get a lot of carp from the enterprise sector, hardware is useless unless it doesn't work perfectly, and they won't get anyone to buy it if it doesn't work, nothing will work well on buggy hardware, no market segment is tolerating that. Im speaking about processor's, graphic cards, the stuff that goes into PCs ... ofcourse that's why they make multiple segments, they have a whole team dedicated to enterprise just for that reason of keeping the dependants supported, remember the intel's faulty sata ports, the AMD's TLB bug ...

90% of the game developers aren't drivers of the industry, they're just parasites.



What is AAAAAA microsoft effort ? They don't drive the industry, they're forced to do to serve the enterprise.

And what you're talking about with exclusives ? What's diablo 3 ? what's starcraft 2: hots ?, Company of Heroes 2 ?, ... Generals 2 ? All exclusives.

wow Calm down I am pc gamer to u know... And u didnt get the message. UE4 is not out yet and it will delay 1-2 years before its ready. Pc hardware is always better, but OS and drivers reduce its power by 50% compared to a console, that works (hardware - screen). without this things... Also the images from UE4, didnt surprise me at all.. I dont know why...

I referred to the wii U gpu chip that is modern 6xxx series and has nothing to jealous from the current ones, in features capabilities. It is weaker than the high end pc graphic cards, but it has all the features to.
That means the graphics, the quality of the graphics, will have nothing to jealous from the pc version of the games... for a short period of time.

We may have the game in Wii U with 30-40-60 fps.. but pc is 100-200-500 fps.. yes that makes it better...

Microsoft is about to release directX 12 next year or in 2 years... cant remember when, so new engines will pop that at that time, that consoles are not capable of, because of the chipsets and new features.

I think the current version of Nvidia and AMD gpus have nothing to offer instead of raw power, from the old gpus 4xx-5xx-6xx... Maxwell gpus by NVidia and 8 or 9xxx series by AMD, will be a the huge step up in technology... http://www.vizworld....u-arm-cpu-2013/

And as I said several times, I will never play games that support moding... in a console... because moding in pc brings the game to another level.

Edited by Orion, 27 May 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[Stewox]

weaker than the high end pc graphic cards, but it has all the features to.

It's doesn't have GCN and a few other things most likely, so it's not all, on theo ther side, these are not major ones that contribute directly graphically at least.

I didn't read it because your post was too long.

My original post was part making fun of the OP's English, then part commenting that PC Exclusive games can achieve a higher level of visual fidelity than those on consoles which are two years behind PC's by the time they are released, however the closed spec of consoles allows for on-par fidelity with PC's up to two years after the console was released.
But when a company doesn't try hard on the PC, it makes no difference. Usually they don't try if they're making the game for both consoles and PC.


Also, I highlighted the fact there's "no money" in PC Exclusive games anymore, with the new Call of Duty casual crowd who find it easier or more pleasurable to play on their TV's.

Violet:
Light Green: it doesn't have to necessairly be a PC exclusive, any PC game has to have Win version of the engine, the matter is how good.
Blue: this is not absolute, totally depends on if the major studio takes proper effort on it, usually this doesn't happen early.
Dark Green: Their philosophy is to blame, they don't have idea how little it takes to make it much better, sometimes it just takes listening and patching.
Red:consoles are on a downfall; those people aren't gamers

Edited by Stewox, 28 May 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[Nollog]

It's doesn't have GCN and a few other things most likely, so it's not all, on theo ther side, these are not major ones that contribute directly graphically at least.



Violet:
Light Green: it doesn't have to necessairly be a PC exclusive, any PC game has to have Win version of the engine, the matter is how good.
Blue: this is not absolute, totally depends on if the major studio takes proper effort on it, usually this doesn't happen early.
Dark Green: Their philosophy is to blame, they don't have idea how little it takes to make it much better, sometimes it just takes listening and patching.
Red:consoles are on a downfall; those people aren't gamers

Why couldn't you compact your post before?
It looks like we agree.

[Stewox]

Why couldn't you compact your post before?
It looks like we agree.

If you are not interested in these deep discussions plesase inform prior. You don't seem to be responding to the content i provided.

I shall no longer correct semantics and explanations from your posts unless it benefits other thread visitors and posters.
I am correcting and offering expanded analysis on stuff i see are too broad and rough which makes them inaccurate, regardless who is quoted, they are targeted for everyone not just the quoted poster.
I do not direct all of my opinions toward the qouted user either, not personal in any way, the use of context in the word "you" is often generalized and not targeted toward anyone in this forum in particular, unless otherwise noted or obviously part of a directed sentence.

Other people have not requested any further help so I am done in this thread.

Edited by Stewox, 29 May 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Nollog]

You can get deep discussion without long-winded speeches about robots and unicorns.

[Stewox]

Also I have completed my anslysis on the latest rumor and sent off to tips on nintendo community , great news for people who arr wortief about specs, they will be standard PC equivalent, further software optimizations will prove its true power.

Edited by Stewox, 29 May 2012 - 02:22 PM.