116 replies to this topic

[Hinkik]

if apple makes a console they are doomed. They are known for their bad customer service and cheap materials. And if they make a console, is going to be pricy.. They have no good experience or background for it.

I think steam is the one who tries to find a founder and make a netbox (console), because the steam pcs are not selling! Some companies make some steam pc with a gaming OS... Looks like a console, but it includes a modern pc tech.. http://www.tqcast.co...sole-steam-box/

Who ever buy this, is very stupid.. hehehe And if I remember well, valve also had an appointment with Apple.. So basically they search for the right formula.. I tell them, there isnt any.. If they want it exclusively online..

Bad materials?


Bad customer service?


Okay I don't think so. At least in sweden the service is really good, I dropped my macbook and got it repaired free and I had no apple care.

Also the materials is kick ass. Aluminium ftw.

[Deadly Virus]

Apple just wouldn't be a good fit for the console market as their primary goal has always been to make money. We've seen the same from Microsoft and how they charge ridiculous amounts for XBL, which has no real reason to not be free, and then also go and plaster ads everywhere even in addition to that. Plus there's the fact that the RROD issue which has been known since the 360's launch is still suspiciously present even in the recently released Slim models..

Nintendo and Sega were always the best console manufacturers because, yes, while they are businesses and ultimately sell their products to make a profit, they also have very strong histories in the video game industry and recognise the need to provide a quality product above all. Microsoft and Apple have no such history, and so when they look at video games in general they don't ask "What can we do to innovate and provide a good service in this space?", they ask "What can we do to make the most money in this space?".

[Desert Punk]

The wii u is PowerPC compatible simply by virtue of utilizing a Power architecture. The Power chips include the entire PowerPC instruction set. Nintendo will have simply needed to include in the Wii U OS some translation code since Power 7 does work a bit different than previous Power chips, including 6. No special cores needed, etc. just a bit of code, which IBM has most assuredly provided as part of their partnership.

Wii games on wii u is a piece of cake.

And even one wii u CPU core could emulate the wii easily. But the CPU is built to share demand amongst the cores. With the CPU being so far advanced beyond the wii in terms of bother architecture, core numbers, a d clock speed. Nothing special has to be in place to run wii games.

Strange that the 3DS arm cpu is actually configured to work in the exact same way as the DS arm cpu. They used the arm11 that was compatible with the earlier arm processor including cache etc it merely slows down to run DS code. They could have used a faster varient of the arm11 and just used extra software to emulate using your idea. As a general rule I'm pretty sure either the hardware has to be fully compatible or you emulate the cpu fully. I don't believe you can partially emulate a different cpu very well. You either have a software layer interpreting cpu commands and then directing them to the right place or you run the code directly on the cpu. I'm 99% certain you are wrong in what you have written. Can you name an example of any computer or console that uses the technique you have stated? Remember wii compatibility is meant to be very high on the wii u like 99-100% its not like the 360 emulating the original xbox which uses special patches. However we both have wildly different views on what the wii u cpu will be. I'm expecting a 3 core powerpc/power chip with improved architecture over the 360 but at a reduce speed, sub 3ghz. I'm expecting it to perform around similar numbers to 360, possibly below or possibly something around 20% better with 50% better an absolute max. At this level wii cpu emulation may be difficult but not impossible. Your expectations would allow for easy full speed emulation of the wii cpu.

[MorbidGod]

Apple just wouldn't be a good fit for the console market as their primary goal has always been to make money. We've seen the same from Microsoft and how they charge ridiculous amounts for XBL, which has no real reason to not be free, and then also go and plaster ads everywhere even in addition to that. Plus there's the fact that the RROD issue which has been known since the 360's launch is still suspiciously present even in the recently released Slim models..

Nintendo and Sega were always the best console manufacturers because, yes, while they are businesses and ultimately sell their products to make a profit, they also have very strong histories in the video game industry and recognise the need to provide a quality product above all. Microsoft and Apple have no such history, and so when they look at video games in general they don't ask "What can we do to innovate and provide a good service in this space?", they ask "What can we do to make the most money in this space?".

So, Nintendo's goal isn't to make money? And XBL isn't cheap to run. If it were free, I doubt it would be as good as it is now. But i don't believe Apple will make a console, anyways.

[Deadly Virus]

So, Nintendo's goal isn't to make money?

It is, sure. But Nintendo takes other factors into consideration that companies like Microsoft do not. This is where Nintendo's obsession with innovation actually tends to be a good thing. Microsoft simply wouldn't have come up with the Wii, for instance, as it was simply too big of a risk.

And XBL isn't cheap to run. If it were free, I doubt it would be as good as it is now.

We have PSN which is effectively on the same level as XBL, and apart from PSN+ it's completely free. In this day and age, there's little reason to keep online gaming services subscription-based, it's not new technology anymore.

[The Lonely Koopa]

It is, sure. But Nintendo takes other factors into consideration that companies like Microsoft do not. This is where Nintendo's obsession with innovation actually tends to be a good thing. Microsoft simply wouldn't have come up with the Wii, for instance, as it was simply too big of a risk.



We have PSN which is effectively on the same level as XBL, and apart from PSN+ it's completely free. In this day and age, there's little reason to keep online gaming services subscription-based, it's not new technology anymore.

It's kinda true Microsoft is really only doing payed online to get money I mean they also have ad as well or at least last time I checked. You can also do quite a few other online features on the free account of live (yes their is one) really from what I can see they are paying you for is their online match making which also happens to be P2p so their is no reason for it to be payed.

Edited by The Lonely Koopa, 16 June 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[Plutonas]

Lol

You pick out an item. And pixel anomolies? Even tv and monitor manufa turners deal with that constantly. Nintendo does too. And you do realize that those display panels come from sharp, Samsung, lg, etc right? Lol

Countless things can be looked at from any company. But apple does more than their fair share of actually fixing problems and providing not only the best hardware and software, but the best customer service as well.

AMD parts? You sure about that? Maybe the ATI GPU on some models. But they are with nvidia as well. Concerning CPU, apple uses core I series. Not anything low end at all Seriously, you are just sounding trolling now. And woefully missing out on the facts.

Consider their new retina display MacBook pro with 16gb ram capacity and crazy good screen. The unibody design as well is great. Consider the build materials: aluminum and glass.

Apple goes to the. next level in building their machines. The high end hardware, the great materials and engineering of the casing, great displays, and reliability unmatched by the windows world. Their support consistently gets high marks as well.

Yes. Sorry. You are misinformed. If you want to argue, please don't do it with someone who actually knows the situation. You do yourself no favors.

UR SOOO wrong again, 2 years ago, maybe 3, didnt count them.. Apple stopped TOTALLY supporting NVIDIA, thats why all photographers and 3d moved to PC... videographers only buy pros, or those who want to advertise the apple in their shop.. ENTER any eshop from apple and try buy a pro or casual.. with nvidia.. U see? u know the past.. not the present or feature of apple .. and I see dark skys upon them. And I am honest, APPLE has the worst customer service every invented in human history... I can give u stories and articles, even newspapers..

Nvidia due to some conflicts with INTEL cpus, that apple uses in their machines... stopped cooping with APPLE, or APPLE stopped cooping with nvidia because of that, vise verse. So cuda no more... even though, this year ADOBE photoshop cs6 (i think?) supports amd gpus.. but all photographers who got older version of photoshop, they have NO reason of buying new version of pp.. it is expensive after all. And I dont speak about the other applications that amd drivers sucks... for 3d... against quadro.

with this programs, if u buy version 2 or 3 or 4... u dont need to change for at least 10-15 years... lol... if ur job is done.. So apple now points to the new comers.. not the current photographers, etc. And not in 3d. And at this point, pcs are by far superior than pros.. And u have versatile customer service, u choose... I forgot to tell u that I am a photographer.. did I ever say that ? no.. i didnt

Edited by Orion, 16 June 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[MorbidGod]

It is, sure. But Nintendo takes other factors into consideration that companies like Microsoft do not. This is where Nintendo's obsession with innovation actually tends to be a good thing. Microsoft simply wouldn't have come up with the Wii, for instance, as it was simply too big of a risk.



We have PSN which is effectively on the same level as XBL, and apart from PSN+ it's completely free. In this day and age, there's little reason to keep online gaming services subscription-based, it's not new technology anymore.

But Apple is actually an innovative company like Nintendo. You can't say the Apple iPhone didn't change everything forever.

[Link707]

But Apple is actually an innovative company like Nintendo. You can't say the Apple iPhone didn't change everything forever.

Yeah but that was one innovation that they have milked the entire time.. Let's make everything have a touch screen. After that it was just adding little updates to the hardware to make people buy it. Their is little difference between the one you have and the next one

Edited by Link707, 16 June 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[MorbidGod]

Yeah but that was one innovation that they have milked the entire time.. Let's make everything have a touch screen. After that it was just adding little updates to the hardware to make people buy it. Their is little difference between the one you have and the next one

Apple pioneered the modern day computer interface with the mouse. They innovated again with the all in one PC. Then the iPod, which changed the music industry forever. Then iPhone and iTunes. Then the magic mouse, and Apple's multi touch pad on their laptops. These innovations you'll see on newer PCs because of Windows 8 focus on touch. The iPad, of course.

Im sure I am missing some innovations, in fact I know I am when it comes to OSX. Apple always does things first, and Microsoft follows. With Windows 8 they finally are doing their own thing, which I like. I still believe Apple is doing it right, wherr Windows 8 wont be loved like 7.

But to call Apple anything but innovative would be a drastic over look on what they have done and the influence they have had on the industry.

[Link707]

Apple pioneered the modern day computer interface with the mouse. They innovated again with the all in one PC. Then the iPod, which changed the music industry forever. Then iPhone and iTunes. Then the magic mouse, and Apple's multi touch pad on their laptops. These innovations you'll see on newer PCs because of Windows 8 focus on touch. The iPad, of course.

Im sure I am missing some innovations, in fact I know I am when it comes to OSX. Apple always does things first, and Microsoft follows. With Windows 8 they finally are doing their own thing, which I like. I still believe Apple is doing it right, wherr Windows 8 wont be loved like 7.

But to call Apple anything but innovative would be a drastic over look on what they have done and the influence they have had on the industry.

A few days back, we had a good old BBQ here at home with quite a few people, and suddenly the subject of the iPad came round. Main question among some people was if they had used one yet. Those who had (all two of them) said roughly that it's a fun machine, but, as Apple is known for, creates solutions for problems that aren't there. That made me think. They had a point there. The iPad, for example, isn't really that special at all. But used technology that was already there, and already not too expensive, and with ideas that weren't unheard of, and created a well thought through, well designed product, which.... isn't at all Apple's own idea. They are just the first to bring such a thing on the market with a hype.
Touchscreen computers, or appliances, for example, are being developed for different purposes by companies like Sony, Philips and Microsoft (and many others). Not by Apple. Apple just created a product (probably within a year) which makes use of the fact that touchscreens aren't that expensive anymore.
Remember that part in Bond's Quantum of Solace? With that touchscreen-table-computer?? That's the idea the other companies are developing on. Not Apple. Although, to be fair, the iPad doesn't use cameras to identify obeject. Which is what some of the other instruments do.
Neither was the iPod really that innovative. Neither are Macs. They just make use of what's on the market, combine them, put them in a nice package, give the user reasonable programs on which they work, and ta-da. No innovation. No development. Just adding what's there. So their only real innovation is ios the operating system.

[MorbidGod]

This is really off topic, so this the last time I will post in this thread about Apple. Saying the iPod wasn't a game changer is just ignoring the fact iTunes is if not number one in music sales closr to it. Ignoring the fact that Apple used that to finally get DRM Free music to their customers. Ignoring the fact that out of all the mp3 players out there, the iPod still remains number one.

Saying Macs aren't innovative is just, yet again ignoring fact. http://www.cultofmac...-it-from-xerox/ is a look at what Apple did with the mouse. Yes, they didn't invent it, but Nintendo didn't invent motion control, 3D gaming, or the joystick. But what they did do is use it for a new purpose.

The iPad is not my favorite tablet. I like WebOS. I hate iOS. Apples mobile products have a focus on apps and I dont like that. But I will not ignore the impact Apple has had on our industry and our world. Doing so is just showing your bias, probably because you hardly use a Mac. If ever. But point to a feature on a PC, and it was on a Mac first. For the most part, at least.

[eugoreez]

how the hell does thread turned into apple argument? =_=

anyhow, don't be to concerned with the wii u hardware.. based on the arkham city graphic comparison (not really good quality though, but still), you can see some difference in terms sharpness, particle effects.. to me it is better on wii u.. with reference to my experience, gaming on the pc.. though we cannot say how it fares in the cpu processing (how many items, processes can it handle at one time etc.)

and one more thing, is the price... do you think, you can get a monster gaming machine, comparable to today most powerful pc without having to fork out, over $600 - $1000? ok I admit i am bad guessing prices, it is not the currency i always use anyway, so i am not familiar with pc components prices in the US.. but as far as i know, $600 is a lot to spend...

think about it for a second, for those who build pc, i believe $350 and above for graphic card is considered a price for high end graphic card.. correct me if im wrong.. a price of a console should already be around this price, just to include a high end card.. yeah, putting in the possibility of them using a customized chip with similar performances and what not, with special "bulk" prices.. it could be lower or higher, but i dont think it can be that far of differences, like a $100 - $150 off... unless, you know, there is something in business that i don't know that this kind of thing can be done.. that still does not include the processor, the ram, the input media, the exclusive shenanigans they have to put in to make the console sell... and in my observation (comments, hearsay), anything around $300 is "affordable" for gaming console

i believe, nintendo is trying to play safe here... make something that is cheap, but can sell itself without having years of losses.. and i think wii u hardware can be compared to the mid range pc currently.. which i think not that bad if its true.. still a lot of potential.. and console is supposed to be an easy and cheap way to game.. why strain your customers just to get ahead of the hardware game.. yeah it can be future proof.. but in business standpoint, company like nintendo could already have enough profit to develop new console, by the time your hardware superior console is starting to make profit... well i wouldn't know for sure, im just saying..

[Steve]

It always seems that since gamecube era, nintendo comes in early and hence the newer ps/xbox systems will be more powerful until this is changed unless nintendo jumps way ahead in power, but this would have an equally high price tag.

[Link707]

It always seems that since gamecube era, nintendo comes in early and hence the newer ps/xbox systems will be more powerful until this is changed unless nintendo jumps way ahead in power, but this would have an equally high price tag.

Nintendo has always been last to the market, this is the first time since maybe before n64, that's how far back I checked

[Socalmuscle]

UR SOOO wrong again, 2 years ago, maybe 3, didnt count them.. Apple stopped TOTALLY supporting NVIDIA, thats why all photographers and 3d moved to PC... videographers only buy pros, or those who want to advertise the apple in their shop.. ENTER any eshop from apple and try buy a pro or casual.. with nvidia.. U see? u know the past.. not the present or feature of apple .. and I see dark skys upon them. And I am honest, APPLE has the worst customer service every invented in human history... I can give u stories and articles, even newspapers..

Nvidia due to some conflicts with INTEL cpus, that apple uses in their machines... stopped cooping with APPLE, or APPLE stopped cooping with nvidia because of that, vise verse. So cuda no more... even though, this year ADOBE photoshop cs6 (i think?) supports amd gpus.. but all photographers who got older version of photoshop, they have NO reason of buying new version of pp.. it is expensive after all. And I dont speak about the other applications that amd drivers sucks... for 3d... against quadro.

with this programs, if u buy version 2 or 3 or 4... u dont need to change for at least 10-15 years... lol... if ur job is done.. So apple now points to the new comers.. not the current photographers, etc. And not in 3d. And at this point, pcs are by far superior than pros.. And u have versatile customer service, u choose... I forgot to tell u that I am a photographer.. did I ever say that ? no.. i didnt

Actually, I'm right. You're wrong.

Apple did forgo nvidia for a time due to some unstable legal ground intel was trying to kill nvidia sales with related to inclusion in intel motherboards. And of course, apple reserves the right to use whichever gpu offers the best performance for its apication as well. Nvidia and Ati are fighting a seesaw battle there.

A d guess what?... Apples using nvidia again... As in you can by a brand new laptop with nvidia gpu.

So i guess that's that. Seriously. Update your facts before saying someone is wrong and having egg on your face.

You just sound trolling with these comments. If you kept up on the industry, you would keep up on apple too. And at their wwdc your have noticed their nvidia announcements. But I suppose facts escape you when you are only looking to spout negativity, regardless of its basis in fiction.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 18 June 2012 - 01:17 AM.

[Hinkik]

UR SOOO wrong again, 2 years ago, maybe 3, didnt count them.. Apple stopped TOTALLY supporting NVIDIA, thats why all photographers and 3d moved to PC... videographers only buy pros, or those who want to advertise the apple in their shop.. ENTER any eshop from apple and try buy a pro or casual.. with nvidia.. U see? u know the past.. not the present or feature of apple .. and I see dark skys upon them. And I am honest, APPLE has the worst customer service every invented in human history... I can give u stories and articles, even newspapers..

Nvidia due to some conflicts with INTEL cpus, that apple uses in their machines... stopped cooping with APPLE, or APPLE stopped cooping with nvidia because of that, vise verse. So cuda no more... even though, this year ADOBE photoshop cs6 (i think?) supports amd gpus.. but all photographers who got older version of photoshop, they have NO reason of buying new version of pp.. it is expensive after all. And I dont speak about the other applications that amd drivers sucks... for 3d... against quadro.

with this programs, if u buy version 2 or 3 or 4... u dont need to change for at least 10-15 years... lol... if ur job is done.. So apple now points to the new comers.. not the current photographers, etc. And not in 3d. And at this point, pcs are by far superior than pros.. And u have versatile customer service, u choose... I forgot to tell u that I am a photographer.. did I ever say that ? no.. i didnt

The new macbook pro's have nvidia geforce gt 650...

[Plutonas]

I was about to buy apple mac pro 3 years ago (NOT laptops, as laptops for me are junk.. only a cheap one to make transfers, nothing else is needed), but I changed my mind due to that conflict with intel... So I bought my big pc.. They lost million of sales because apple cooped with AMD, as AMD is mature in games ONLY... not in applications or 3d..
All that because of their drivers and different architecture from what the applications are built for... Good for them, but again, their horrible customer service places apple in number 1 blacklisted company, in my personal buying list.. and not only.

Search photography, 3d forums..

After what u said, I searched and found a 2011 article that states, APPLE drops AMD and goes back to nvidia... http://technfuture.c...aks-amd-nvidia/


Also this is a newer article again.. That nvidia cannot supply them with the appropriate number of gpus.. who cares.. http://semiaccurate....ers-of-laptops/

Also their UELA is unacceptable and anybody can see that they dont respect customer protection services.. They even by pass DOA http://store.apple.c...iesedindiv.html
paragraph 9

And I can also give u thousands of customers from my country, other countries, etc.. that Apple denies DOA and they dont fix it as well, so they force customer withdraw their rights, buy other product... I can give THOUSANDS of that... But lets just not make it an apple topic.. Apple is number 1 worst company, after than sony and EA.. (with their policies). After steve jobs died, that he was a great marketing guy... As apple still have this policies while he was an active member of their company... They take the downside.

PC's today are so advenced, thtat with the half money u can have a much faster system... Also if someone built s a server PC, it is much reliable than the apple pros.. And there what apple did wrong, they send away all their customers (photographers and 3d), to go try something different.. and this different thing, turned to be better and cheaper.

Edited by Orion, 18 June 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[Socalmuscle]

I was about to buy apple mac pro 3 years ago (NOT laptops, as laptops for me are junk.. only a cheap one to make transfers, nothing else is needed), but I changed my mind due to that conflict with intel... So I bought my big pc.. They lost million of sales because apple cooped with AMD, as AMD is mature in games ONLY... not in applications or 3d..
All that because of their drivers and different architecture from what the applications are built for... Good for them, but again, their horrible customer service places apple in number 1 blacklisted company, in my personal buying list.. and not only.

Search photography, 3d forums..

After what u said, I searched and found a 2011 article that states, APPLE drops AMD and goes back to nvidia... http://technfuture.c...aks-amd-nvidia/


Also this is a newer article again.. That nvidia cannot supply them with the appropriate number of gpus.. who cares.. http://semiaccurate....ers-of-laptops/

Also their UELA is unacceptable and anybody can see that they dont respect customer protection services.. They even by pass DOA http://store.apple.c...iesedindiv.html
paragraph 9

And I can also give u thousands of customers from my country, other countries, etc.. that Apple denies DOA and they dont fix it as well, so they force customer withdraw their rights, buy other product... I can give THOUSANDS of that... But lets just not make it an apple topic.. Apple is number 1 worst company, after than sony and EA.. (with their policies). After steve jobs died, that he was a great marketing guy... As apple still have this policies while he was an active member of their company... They take the downside.

PC's today are so advenced, thtat with the half money u can have a much faster system... Also if someone built s a server PC, it is much reliable than the apple pros.. And there what apple did wrong, they send away all their customers (photographers and 3d), to go try something different.. and this different thing, turned to be better and cheaper.

Ok. We get it. You hate apple and are a Microsoft windows fan who like to take pretty pictures with a camera.

Hooray for you.

Now let's get back on topic ( while at the same time not spouting ignorant misinformation please).

[Plutonas]

who said pc is only microsoft.. it is also Lynux and Hackidosh...


Also windows xp and 7 are very stable... nobody complaints.

Edited by Orion, 19 June 2012 - 02:29 AM.