13 replies to this topic

[SonofMrPeanut]

So Thomas Morgan of Eurogamer has written on his time with the Wii U.

http://www.eurogamer...s-on-with-wii-u

Many observations are made, but I'd like to highlight one:  In instances when both screens show the same image, the Wii U Gamepad rendered images 116ms (7 frames) before the 50-inch LG screen he played on did.  This wouldn't be too evident at 60 fps, but nonetheless it's an interesting observation.

[Joshua]

I was expecting a slight lag between the GamePad and the TV Screen.
Nothing Nintendo can't fix before it's release.

[Tre]

it's more about the latency in the HDTV's than the console and the gamepad.

[Hank Hill]

Well I'm sure the gamepad had something to do with it. If nintendo promised no matter what you are playing no lag would occur.

Eh, still. At higher FPS, it would be almost unnoticeable. Besides, they have a few months to iron out the kinks.

[Tre]

To explain what I'm taking about TV's being some of the problem with latency, there was an article in 2006 about it. So if you have time read this and you would understand why it was the TV's fault more so than the console.

http://www.ign.com/a...pidemic-exposed

[Usman Mohammad]

So Thomas Morgan of Eurogamer has written on his time with the Wii U.

http://www.eurogamer...s-on-with-wii-u

Many observations are made, but I'd like to highlight one: In instances when both screens show the same image, the Wii U Gamepad rendered images 116ms (7 frames) before the 50-inch LG screen he played on did. This wouldn't be too evident at 60 fps, but nonetheless it's an interesting observation.

Some LG TVs have been known to have input lag. It's common knowledge in the fighting game scene where input lag has the worst affect. However by turning on game mode the problem is resolved

YouTube LG input lag street fighter, you will se that the character takes a lot longer to act from when the button is pressed.

At least this information does show that they used a good enough screen and that the wireless communication to the controller is better than some TVs with a wired connection.

[Nollog]

If Nintendo knew about some TV's having lag, why use that TV in their booth?
Also, "the Wii U Gamepad rendered images 116ms (7 frames) before the 50-inch LG screen he played on did."
That's either impressive, or the OS is syncing the frames, poorly.

They've been working on trying to stream a screen without lag for ages, they claim.

[dagwood dang]

It's the TV's problem. I bet if it were hooked up to a CRT (old school "big booty" tube TV) the images would be in sync.

Plasma, LCD, and LED TV's have a little lag to them. The numbers vary between brands and the tech they went with.
Going to "Game mode" is supposed to help reduce the lag, but it doesn't eliminate it. If you have a big screen, lag is pretty much unavoidable.
IMO, latency is the biggest problem with today's tech. It's really killing our ability to be precise in gaming nowadays,
and since most consumers don't even know it, the demand for better, faster response TVs isn't there.

Here's a way to test this with audio:
If you have New Super Mario Bros., pop that in your Wii. Get killed by a goomba or grab an item in a level that activates a sound in your Wii remote (I think grabbing a 1up or getting all 8 red coins should do it). If you have a big screen TV, you'll notice a slight delay between the chime in the TV's speakers and the chime in your Wii remote, with the sound coming out of the Wii remote slightly before the TV. If you have "game mode" in your TV, it'll reduce that delay a little bit, but it's still not going to be in sync.

So basically, that delay in time that you're hearing is the amount of time that stuff is going on in your game before you even get to see or hear it. Definitely NOT ideal for gaming.

[bejfever]

I too was initially confused. But after researching, there is and has always been massive problems with HDTV latency. This 116ms difference is purely the TV's fault. And is the same problem every type of console/computer/DVDblurayplayer has to deal with. But obviously it is not a problem for Film/Video.

As to why Nintendo chose to use these TV's, I think it's simple: They would have just wanted to make sure the games were playable enough and felt highly responsive enough for the show. Nintendo would not want any visual graphical errors showing up at fault of a TV, resulting in people whining at Nintendo about it, when it is a problem that has nothing to do with Nintendo. So they chose TV's that were regarded as well visually proven, over low latency proven.

[Desert Punk]

Its a bit unfair to lump LCD and Plasma together. LCD screens especially larger screens have low pixel response time so to compensate LG have created a lot of picture processing to catch issues like that. It makes the tv give a better performance for non interactive entertainment but for games its terrible. Even in game mode its high on many LCD LG sets. Plasma's tend to have much lower input lag but nothing beats an old style 50/60hz CRT which has literally no input lag at all. Old style CRT sets do not do any picture processing at all (unless they are upmarket models with 100hz modes or progressive scan features like pixelplus). I think my Panasonic plasma has an input lag of 25ms average although might be a tad lower on VGA and a bit higher on the scart connections.

[Joshua]

If Nintendo knew about some TV's having lag, why use that TV in their booth?

Easiest answer; it's the cheapest "best" brand to rent available.

[uh20]

yea, this is all very confirming of the wiiu being exceptionally powerful, along with everyone's agreement, Nintendo sort of just adds power to what needs power and people complain there aren’t because Nintendo does not show it off but then you notice its running at 60fps 720p so that on a 50 inch hd tv (which i got constant grief from the wii where it has delays playing on 50 inches) it has barely noticeable tablet to tv lag, try hooking up your 360 like that!
and yes, they do say it can run 1080p, with the time based software boosts it will be possible under the same circumstances, and if you cut off a tablet it will be even more easier to make a fully hd game, neat

there are some bad parts, delay of normal wii motes being the first thing, and they also had something to say about the possible to be better but neglectable weight and display of the gamepad

edit: it may or may not be the fault of the tv for the lag of the gamepad, the only thing that shows it will be good is that its not lagging a lot, which signals its more than just the tv

Edited by uh20, 18 June 2012 - 07:27 AM.