118 replies to this topic

[Hank Hill]

Running UE4 does not indicate the wii u is as powerful as a PC or next gen at all. I don't see the wii as powerful as 360 or PS3 because of it. Clearly such a game engine can be modified or simplified to suit the hardware its a complete nonsense to use it for any sort of power comparison. Besides I'm sure I've already read that UE3 will be the likely unreal engine for most wii u games which again puts it in the 360/PS3 camp.

So let me see if I've got this right. Because the Wii U can run UE4 doesn't mean anything, but because it can run UE3 means it's only as powerful as the PS360. Even though we have named developers going farther to say it's much more powerful than that.

Whatever you say pal.

Not to mention your gameplay comparisons were a little skewed. You took direct feed from Resistance 3, and off-screen feed from ZombiU. Not a fair comparison.

[uh20]

i just checked hardware for a new computer i would like to build, and when searching for processors, clock speed was only a partially needed thing to be above 2.8 to catch up with the other running, chose a 3.0 in the end but it depends on cores and threads too, 4 cores is a lot more than just one, and if i was going crazy on an i7 (which you honestly dont even need on gaming computers) there would be 2 threads each.

idk quick example,

still kind of confusing grounds this is, spill a bunch of assurance but lets not hope its one or the other till fall
and away we go!
and also, zombiu seems a bit better looking from a technical standpoint, not like you can really tell in that resolution, its hard to sometimes compare things (ie a boss fight looks much better than sneeking around, and the colorful arcade games are hardly ever looked at for hardware capabilities because no matter how much shaders they use, still ganna look colorful and arcady.) but yea, zombiu wins because even with the crappy show they made, things still rendered smoothly, and the background was not shadowed in to hide bad tesselation

Edited by uh20, 15 July 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[MorbidGod]

@Desert Punk I don't think the Wii can handle UE3. As far as I know, that was the whole reason for developers complaining. Secondly, ZombiU was first on Xbox, then moved over to Wii U dev kit. Which is not final. Third, the leaked document didn't give any specifics on the processor. It said either a 6 or 8 core processor, that will either be ARM or x86. This tells us the Doc was an internal Doc given to a dev saying this is what you can expect. ]Which is why when it says a 4 to 6 % power increase over 360 is important because that is what they are aiming for.]

You see, I am nit saying the Wii U will be uber powerful. I am saying the info wr have says the other guys aren't going to be uber powerful. RVEN YOURSELF SAID 4 TO 6 % power increase in another thread. And the Wii U being 2 to 4 % increase from current gen means the gap between the others are going to be 2 to 4 % difference. Which if yiu say that is a huge gap, then the Wii U clearly is a huge gap between current gen.

[silverismoney]

IBM Introduces New PowerPC CPU Core

At last week's Linley Tech Processor Conference, IBM announced the successor to its PowerPC 440/464 CPUs, the PowerPC 476FP. Able to issue up to five instructions at a time and process instructions out of order, the 476FP will likely achieve industry-leading single-thread throughput for a CPU core. Having a nine-stage pipeline and implemented as a hard core, the 476FP is conservatively rated at 1.6GHz in IBM's 45nm SOI process. In this configuration, the core measures 3.6mm2 and consumes 1.6W. Customers can begin designing ASICs using the CPU in October. IBM expects the first 476FP-based products to qualify for production in 2010. A synthesizable version will also be available.

The most similar CPUs to the 476FP are the e500mc from Freescale and the CPU used in RMI's XLP832. To conserve power, Freescale limits the speed of the e500 to 1.5GHz in 45nm, and it can issue only two instructions per cycle. Interestingly, both the 476FP and the e500mc incorporate floating-point units. The XLP's CPU is billed as running at up to 2GHz. It's a four-issue machine and thus likely to deliver similar single-thread performance as the 476FP. Being multithreaded, it has the potential for greater throughput than the 476FP, however.

Among licensable CPU cores, the 476FP is most similar to ARM's Cortex-A9. Both IBM and ARM claim their processors achieve the same performance per MHz on small benchmarks. The processors have a similar number of pipeline stages, can issue a similar number of maximum instructions per cycle, and have similar branch prediction. The 476FP is likely to perform better on most real-world code. The A9 cannot sustain its peak issue rate because it can only decode two instructions per cycle, and the 476FP can issue more integer instructions per cycle. The A9, however, supports ARM's Neon instructions, which give it an edge for multimedia applications.

Chip designers seeking a fast CPU for integration in their ASICs and ASSPs will find the 476FP the top choice. Its PowerPC compatibility makes it particularly well suited to communications and enterprise applications where the architecture has a strong presence. A key ingredient in LSI's multicore architecture, the 476FP will distinguish LSI from its competitors.

http://parisbocek.ty...c-cpu-core.html

LINK


take this 45nm powerpc 32bit ad all the broadway custom hardware give it 3xcore and a 3mb catch presto one hell of a little cpu

plus 50 extra gaming instructions /// 4to1 2to1 data compression /// write gather graphics pipe buffers//sound processor///ARM work cpu

at 1.6ghz easy 100 gb bandwidth per core it maybe able to run at much higher clock not sure may max out at 2.0ghz

Edited by silverismoney, 15 July 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[MorbidGod]

@silver It's possible that is a similar processor to what the Wii U will have, but it appears this one is for servers. It specifically says not good for multimedia. Which for a device that is a multimedia device (games and streaming movies) it begs the question, why choose this processor? And also, this is not a PowerPC G3 which is what the Broadway is. So please stop calling it Broadway.

[Desert Punk]

So let me see if I've got this right. Because the Wii U can run UE4 doesn't mean anything, but because it can run UE3 means it's only as powerful as the PS360. Even though we have named developers going farther to say it's much more powerful than that.

Whatever you say pal.

Not to mention your gameplay comparisons were a little skewed. You took direct feed from Resistance 3, and off-screen feed from ZombiU. Not a fair comparison.

Yes it was stated the wii u is likely to use UE3 for most games as per 360/PS3 but yes until we actually see the type of games using UE3 or UE4 its not really relevant. Wii used UE2 varient for most games but UE3 for games for less ambitious titles. It may well be that wii U uses UE3 for most titles but UE4 for less ambitious titles.

Please also note I'm not saying less or equal to 360/PS3 I personally think it will be just slightly ahead but no more than 2x power but I will not be surprised if it turns out at pretty similar power. I believe wii u will have very fast memory bandwidth and much more memory than 360/PS3 so I'm expecting a console that can punch above in some ways but in gpu and cpu power I'm not so sure where it will sit but believe it will be pretty close to current gen.

Clearly we will start seeing a lot more information about wii u soon and what it can achieve. My expectations are close to current gen and a bit beyond which since the beginning of these threads has been my expectation and seem to get reinforced as we move closer to launch time. I predicted something like 32megabytes of embedded video memory and the devkit leak was actually that figure. The reason I predicted 32megabytes was because I felt thats what a NIntendo cost reduced design would likely include thereabouts and so far thats what seems to be happening.

I don't think any of these developer leaks are designed to damage Nintendo they are just expressing their view of the console and if you take the average overall you get something close to current gen or just beyond.

[silverismoney]

@silver It's possible that is a similar processor to what the Wii U will have, but it appears this one is for servers. It specifically says not good for multimedia. Which for a device that is a multimedia device (games and streaming movies) it begs the question, why choose this processor? And also, this is not a PowerPC G3 which is what the Broadway is. So please stop calling it Broadway.

no its not for servers its for all sorts of things ranging from military to automotive things like computers in tanks or missiles or engine managment systems in new cars or maybe on board computers in a bmw or merc the center console do it all media centers come car computers and servers mini servers main frames

im only using powerpc 476fp AS THE EXAMPLE IT WOULDNT BE POWERPC 476FP IT WOULD BE A BROADWAY VERSION OF IT

POWERPC 400S AND POWERPC 476FP ARE BOTH ALREADY IN PRODUCTION AT THIS 45 SYSTEM ON CHIP SIZE USING POWERFUL AND EFFECTIVE RING BUS NOT OLD FASHIONED FRONT SIDE BUS

IM MEARLY POINTING OUT HOW WIIU WOULD BE BUILT ETHER SYSTEM ON PACKAGE OR SYSTEM ON CHIP

the most advanced version of powerpc 32 bit THE CPU THAT REPLACES THE OLD G3 AND G4S AS MEAR LAYMEN WOULD KNOW THEM !!!!!! is the broadway it has extra clever things that no other powerpc has

like graphics write gather burst pipes/buffers (vgleak clearly states this ) like 4to1 and 2to1 data compression and real time decompression and also the 2x32 bit simds engine (not sure does powerpc476fp have that) and the over 50 extra instructions that make the cpu more game and media and 3D friendly

with all that going on and a 128 bit ring bus and other things we dont know or understand and that custom split level 2 catch of 3mb stating its weak or a over clocked broadway is BEYOND IGNORENT

geko cpu had 15 gb bandwidth broadway had 22gb bandwidth each core at 1.6ghz for a broadway version 2 could have 100gb bandwidth then x 3 cores = 300 gb bandwidth at full 4to1 data compression each core is able to run 100% efficent at 5 instructions per clock double that of broadway and the gpu will offer simds fpu compute shader support and all sound will be processed by DSP and back ground functions by a ARM

this aint hard to put together also 3mb catch is 12 x wii catch and the clock speeds would be more than double and the bus 128bit and if this catch is EDRAM it will own sram at bandwidth

this is the most powerful and gaming suited powerpc 32bit core EVER MADE if based on this cpu family witch im 90% sure off

• PowerPC architecture.
• Three cores (fully coherent).
• 3MB aggregate L2 Cache size.
• core 0: 512 KB
• core 1: 2048 KB
• core 2: 512 KB
• Write gatherer per core.
• Locked (L1d) cache DMA per core.

VGLEAK.COM are clearly describing 3 broadway type cores ether tri core or 3 seperate but tightly matched cpus on a system on chip/package all running at the same clock speed and a customized level 2 catch

the give away is the graphics write gather burst pipe ,buffer its only in geko/broadway and a 45nm version/upgrade of broadway ITS A GAMECENTRIC CPU


ARM A9 2 INSTRUCTIONS PER CLOCK AND A WEAKER OVERALL CPU THAN POWERPC 32BIT EACH CORE IS LIKELY TWICE THE CPU PER CLOCK OF SAY A SANDY BRIDGE CELERON CORE x 3 cores and no windows in a closed console this is clearly going to kick azz and its not even a cpu based design the beef is in the GPU its a games console right !!!!!!!!

@silver It's possible that is a similar processor to what the Wii U will have, but it appears this one is for servers. It specifically says not good for multimedia. Which for a device that is a multimedia device (games and streaming movies) it begs the question, why choose this processor? And also, this is not a PowerPC G3 which is what the Broadway is. So please stop calling it Broadway.

MORBID GOD NINTENDO HASNT GIVEN US A NAME SO IM CALLING IT A BROADWAY 2 THAT IS CLEAR AS A SUMMERS DAY STOP TRYING TO DISCREDIT ME WITH CHILDISH NONSENSE

IL CALL IT BROADWAY TILL IM OUT OF BREATH IT IS NOT YOUR CONSERN YOUR CONSERN IS THINKING THERES A 100 WATT HEAT OF THE SUN MASSIVE POWER 7 IN YO WIIU

WAKE UP WIPE THE CORNFLAKES AND MILK OF YOUR FACE SMELL THE COFFEE GO TO THE DOC GET A REALITY CHECK = BROADWAY 2 TRI CORE IM CLEVER YOUR A DUCH LTFOL

ITS 3XCORE POWERPC 32BIT GET THAT FACT FIRMLY GLUED INTO YOUR BRAIN IT WILL ALSO RUN NO HIGHER THAN 75 WATTS IF NOT EVEN 60 WATTS

THE GPU WILL BE A AMD E CLASS AND THE CPU WILL BE A TINY LOW POWER LOW HEAT POWERPC 32 BIT OK

THERES NO POWER STATION FEEDING YOUR 100 CORE POWER 7 IN WIIU I LOVE TO TROLL A TROLL

@ 1.6GHZ POWERPC 32 BIT 45NM USES 1.6 WATTS 3 of them with a low wattage edram will come in even lower heat/power, a gpu E class with 35watts maybe 45 to 50 with clock speed boost and edram ad in disc drive and other bits we are looking at 60 watts

NINTENDO DOESNT MAKE CONSOLES THAT SOUND LIKE VACUM CLEANERS LAST TIME I CHECKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a power 7 on its lonsome would be way over 60 watts

Edited by silverismoney, 15 July 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[MorbidGod]

@silverismonkey Now you did not use terminology, saying Broadway 2 nor did you disclose what you were talking about. Most people in this thread ... In fact everyone in this thread uses official terminology like POWER7, Power ISA, PowerPC. But merely stating that you think this is Broadway x3 cores is incorrect. Also, I was agreeing that such a processor could be in the Wii U, but PLEASE READ what you posted. It clearly states the CPU is similar to the A9 cortext but it isn't as good in the MEDIA department. Meaning, but not limited to, games and movies, both of which the Wii U will be accomplishing as primary functions for its users. Why would Nintendo ... A MEDIA company ... Choose a processor that isn'tthe best IBM could supply for its intended purpose?

AGAIN I STRESS S SIMILAR PROCESSOR MAYBE USED IN WII U BUT IT WOULD BE HIGHLY CUSTOMIZED and wouldn't be the Same processor. As I hinted before ehen I said a similar processor may end up in the Wii U.

[AMAC]

I'd like to remind you guys that while debates like this are fine, insulting other users is not, and some of the posts in this thread are bordering on being insulting. If I see anymore offensive posts here, I'm going to start giving out warnings.

Can we also please stop typing in all-caps?

[MorbidGod]

I'd like to remind you guys that while debates like this are fine, insulting other users is not, and some of the posts in this thread are bordering on being insulting. If I see anymore offensive posts here, I'm going to start giving out warnings.

Can we also please stop typing in all-caps?

Sure!

[Penguin101]

Well I don't care any-more, just upgraded my PC with an AMD Radeon 6870 so if I miss out on any core titles I can always play them on there. Although not sure if my AMD Phenom II X2 will handle it or if I need an X4 or more

[HaoSenVastForest]

~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~ ~Head Desk~
At this point I honestly don't care what anyone says unless it is from Nintendo. This dude must have had a mental issue because everyone else is kissing the Wii U and basking in its power.

[uh20]

hehe
silverismoney's reasoning actually matches processor with a rumor not long ago, funny coincidence, neat find? who knows
i do have expectations on this thing though, and the mass amount of developers saying things is starting to contridict each other
but i do have to agree, how the masses are talking, it seems to be only slightly above current generation consoles, and it better not be

[Socalmuscle]

hehe
silverismoney's reasoning actually matches processor with a rumor not long ago, funny coincidence, neat find? who knows
i do have expectations on this thing though, and the mass amount of developers saying things is starting to contridict each other
but i do have to agree, how the masses are talking, it seems to be only slightly above current generation consoles, and it better not be

Let's just say this.

Nintendo has learned a lot from IBM working with their tech. Some of that Is applied to the custom power based CPU. The Watson paths and algorithms built for the power architecture are a huge gain as well. The CPU itself is much more powerful than anything available in a console currently. no doubt the power pc capabilities inherent to a power CPU are greatly enhanced and will be utilized heavily. But there is more...

I'm thinking IBM had to have given Nintendo a sweetheart deal for them to have what they have. IBM has lost Microsoft this time and Sony is going x86 as well. Can see them wanting to make a fight of it.

The GPU is very nice as well. For those thinking they can simply buy the same gpu or an upgrade of it are missing the point. The wii u does not use a stock PC gpu. Also, because of the efficiency inherent to a console package and due to nintendos relentless focus on efficiency and refinement, the Wii U handily outperforms any PC with comparable specifications.

My prediction/hypothesis/whatever:

The wii U wil look marginally better than current systems at launch. The many ports are limited by default as those games began life on lesser systems and were built around those limitations.

About a year after launch, the real gods become available. Games written specifically to take advantage of the superior firepower running on engines built/modified/enhanced to run on said hardware.

They will be ready to face off against the launch hype of Microsoft and Sony new consoles.

There is a reason why so many are excited about what the wii u allows us to make. But for those looking to sell soon, they have had to deal with the lowest common denominator dev kits for performance budgeting, current game engines, porting from older architectures, etc.

Nintendo isn't coming up with a 360+ type system. They ate ushering in the next generation.

Just like microsoft did with the 360-and it's games looked like Xbox 1 games until a year after launch as well.

[Guy Fieri]

I personally don't care about the power of any console. As long as there are great games and features I would love it anyway. Though missing out on some games can be an issue because of this. But it's not a big enough power loss ( if it's even true) that it wouldn't affect anything much.

[Eskimo_sam]

Let's just say this.

Nintendo has learned a lot from IBM working with their tech. Some of that Is applied to the custom power based CPU. The Watson paths and algorithms built for the power architecture are a huge gain as well. The CPU itself is much more powerful than anything available in a console currently. no doubt the power pc capabilities inherent to a power CPU are greatly enhanced and will be utilized heavily. But there is more...

I'm thinking IBM had to have given Nintendo a sweetheart deal for them to have what they have. IBM has lost Microsoft this time and Sony is going x86 as well. Can see them wanting to make a fight of it.

The GPU is very nice as well. For those thinking they can simply buy the same gpu or an upgrade of it are missing the point. The wii u does not use a stock PC gpu. Also, because of the efficiency inherent to a console package and due to nintendos relentless focus on efficiency and refinement, the Wii U handily outperforms any PC with comparable specifications.

My prediction/hypothesis/whatever:

The wii U wil look marginally better than current systems at launch. The many ports are limited by default as those games began life on lesser systems and were built around those limitations.

About a year after launch, the real gods become available. Games written specifically to take advantage of the superior firepower running on engines built/modified/enhanced to run on said hardware.

They will be ready to face off against the launch hype of Microsoft and Sony new consoles.

There is a reason why so many are excited about what the wii u allows us to make. But for those looking to sell soon, they have had to deal with the lowest common denominator dev kits for performance budgeting, current game engines, porting from older architectures, etc.

Nintendo isn't coming up with a 360+ type system. They ate ushering in the next generation.

Just like microsoft did with the 360-and it's games looked like Xbox 1 games until a year after launch as well.

i like your thinking. like u said the only thing that will be a let down would be no 3rd party support in the future. the fact that they are saying is the will be "dumbed down " for wii u dosnt bother me.


i still look at some ps360 games and think wow graphic wise. im pretty happy with the current graphics of this gen if the wii u can take it further to 1080p then its a bonus for me
however in australia the pre order price is $600!!!

[Desert Punk]

Don't forget if the wii U does use more humble hardware it will give Nintendo more scope to move on price. Nintendo may be able to reach a sub £200 price sooner than the competition. The wii succeeded despite a poor spec and the wii u may do the same. As much as I'm interested in specs I don't see them as something that has to be very high to sell the wii u console. Selling a console is more about marketing and price than actual specification. Yes specification is important but if the wii u sits in a middle ground between current gen and next gen even if its closer to current gen I don't think thats a huge problem.

I'm really looking forward to the console and the games it will bring and the power increase over the original wii is utterly huge and it could be argued that Nintendo achieved more with the humble spec of the wii than has been achieved in some ways on ps3 and 360. I still think Mario Galaxy is better than any platform game on 360 or PS3. Ratchet and Clank may have been visually stunning on ps3 but wasn't really a game that plays as well as mario galaxy in my opinion.

[Waller]

Lower clock speed doesn't make the processor weaker. Clock speed doesn't matter anymore.

Firstly my expectation of Nintendo is a very low cost console based on past experience and the information that is being leaked plus the small form factor of the console and the graphics shown that the console produces. Also the wii u doesn't appear to be capable of running typical 360 or PS3 games at 1080p which surely anything claiming to be next gen could do easily, its not a huge step. So I'm near positive we are looking at something close to current gen with the wii u.

Looking at the leaked xbox 720 document the next Xbox will be a lot more powerful in cpu terms and graphics. Its likely the PS4 will match it using PC architecture maybe a AMD fusion type chipset.

Running UE4 does not indicate the wii u is as powerful as a PC or next gen at all. The humble wii runs UE3 as do PS3 and 360. I don't see the wii as powerful as 360 or PS3 because of it. Clearly such a game engine can be modified or simplified to suit the hardware its a complete nonsense to use it for any sort of power comparison. Besides I'm sure I've already read that UE3 will be the likely unreal engine for most wii u games which again puts it in the 360/PS3 camp.

I've included the above videos just for a demonstration of what the PS3 can achieve in comparison to the wii u. For me the ps3 gameplay is far more intense and shows far more graphical features and physics processes going on. Admittedly I haven't seen a ZombiU boss fight to compare but both ps3 and 360 are very capable systems. The 360 has a better gpu than ps3 but doesn't have the same amount of cpu power.

Dude, you're comparing gameplay from a game that has 6 months of developing time at the beggining of a console's life, to a game that's at the end of another console's life cycle

That's like comparing an amateur cook to a chef.




Now, this is a proper comparison, mind telling me which one looks better?

Edited by Waller, 17 July 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[Desert Punk]

Lower clock speed doesn't make the processor weaker. Clock speed doesn't matter anymore.



Dude, you're comparing gameplay from a game that has 6 months of developing time at the beggining of a console's life, to a game that's at the end of another console's life cycle

That's like comparing an amateur cook to a chef.




Now, this is a proper comparison, mind telling me which one looks better?

Thats a completely unfair comparison, Call of Duty 3 is a multiformat game that came out on ps2, original xbox, wii, ps3 and 360 and shares assets and is not a launch title anyway and that video is grotty quality too Call of duty 2 would be a better example. Processor speed does matter a lot but architecture is also important. Clearly the wii u's limitation of running games at 720p which it shares with 360 and PS3 indicates its power level. It would be super easy for a more powerful console to run 360/PS3 games at a native 1080p but the wii u can't do that. Is it really that hard to work out the wii u isn't that powerful looking at the evidence we have got so far?

[silverismoney]

if cpu was clock speed wouldnt every cpu on earth be the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>suggestion<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

so we have two idnentical cpus but 1 is 1 instruction per clock at 4 ghz the other is 5 instructions per clock at 2ghz and has a huge catch memory.....

is the 4ghz more powerful LOL @ CLOCKSPEED fanboys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is a 1.6ghz 4xcore power7 the same as a 4xcore intel atom cpu if it ran at 1.6ghz also

is a ARM 9 at 200mhz the same as a ARM A9 at 200mhz

example broadway 2 instructions per clock @ 729mhz = 1458 instructions

a tri core at 45nm and 5 instructions per clock and 1.6ghz =24000 instructions clearly a jump of around 16 x that of broadway

a broadway cpu has 22gb peak internal bandwidth a tri core @ 1.6ghz would have 300 gb bandwidth theres many areas of performance not just clock speed

a 3mb catch would be 12 x bigger than broadway i love how ignorent people are and as if it matters the clock speed is lower

Edited by silverismoney, 17 July 2012 - 02:19 PM.