69 replies to this topic

[Noonabites]

Um I may be just confused but isn't everything said this page or so Off-Topic?

Maybe it's on-topic and you just don't understand. I kid.

NES was hardcore. If you don't believe me, go and try to beat a handful of games. Yes, gamers are lucky today.

I'm not old enough to have experience these games at the time of release, but having grew older with them... YES. YES INDEED.

[BanjoKazooie]

Just to clarify. My dad was a computer major and owned his own business developing software and hardware for companies in the 8-'s and 90's, and he was absolutely blown away by the SNES sound and graphics. The SNES had the clearest graphics and most outstanding audio capabilities of its time, maybe not the most high tech, but the highest quality. Also, as stated above on the page, if you think NES and SNES were for children, go try and beat some of those games, no child would ever stand a chance against those games. It appealed to the hardcore and children.

[Nintendustin]

I dont know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

I beat battletoads.

I have many leather bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

[3Dude]

Just to clarify. My dad was a computer major and owned his own business developing software and hardware for companies in the 8-'s and 90's, and he was absolutely blown away by the SNES sound and graphics. The SNES had the clearest graphics and most outstanding audio capabilities of its time, maybe not the most high tech, but the highest quality. Also, as stated above on the page, if you think NES and SNES were for children, go try and beat some of those games, no child would ever stand a chance against those games. It appealed to the hardcore and children.

Somehow your dad must not have known about the rather famous amiga released in 1985.

Back then, hardcore wasn't about being difficult, it was about providing a smart, 'mature', 'artsy' experience.

hardcore and casual have never been fixed definitions according to the games played by the respective audience... But what type of consumer they were.

'hardcores' are veterans of the hobby, and prided themselves on their specific knowledge on the specific high end of the hobby, and only buy the highest tech, the most powerful, most cutting edge, and scoff and condescend to anyone who dares tread upon their hobby of choice with lesser products.

'casuals' are low end users, typically new consumers, or those who don't feel the need to spend top money, or those who just find products made by not top teir highest end companies more fun.... Basically anyone, who, for any reason, differs from what the small, yet extremely vocal high end market consumers deem 'real gaming'.

Inevitably, a number of these 'casual' consumers will gain a vested interest on the hobby, and want to buy better, products. They develop strong opinions on what good games are, and what they aren't, and begin segregating themselves from those who are 'beneath them'. They inevitably become a new generation of 'hardcore' gamers. Of course, their values are hinged on evolved forms of the games they started gaming on, so the TYPE of game the hardcore gamer exalts is in a state of perpetual flux, an ever present ebb and flow with the cycle of the addition of the new consumers and leavings of the old.

Very few of the high end games pre nes (and post simple games like pac man) relied on challenging arcade gameplay.

Typically they relied on high school/ college level reading and cognitive abilities (often on the instruction booklet and included props end) and even arithmitic and in depth stats tracking.

That's why the 'hardcore' gamers hated (feared) Nintendo. They were afraid the kind of things they enjoyed would dissapear, so they lashed out at anything they could to make themselves feel better.

Of course it was completely unecessary, as nintendos gameplay centric games evolved they took on the cinematic/story/sophisticated elements of those games, and quickly surpassed them, while retaining and improving the gameplay they were founded on.

Don't mistake my words, I'm simply lettong people know these times existed and how these people acted. I'm by no means saying they were correct, just that that's how they were.

And, well, are. A vocal minority of the kids who grew up with the nes have proudly shoved their heads up their bums and act the same exact way towards wii/motion controls and mobile games as the hardcore gamers of generations past acted towards nes/snes.

And the cycle goes on.

[BanjoKazooie]

Somehow your dad must not have known about the rather famous amiga released in 1985.

Back then, hardcore wasn't about being difficult, it was about providing a smart, 'mature', 'artsy' experience.

hardcore and casual have never been fixed definitions according to the games played by the respective audience... But what type of consumer they were.

'hardcores' are veterans of the hobby, and prided themselves on their specific knowledge on the specific high end of the hobby, and only buy the highest tech, the most powerful, most cutting edge, and scoff and condescend to anyone who dares tread upon their hobby of choice with lesser products.

'casuals' are low end users, typically new consumers, or those who don't feel the need to spend top money, or those who just find products made by not top teir highest end companies more fun.... Basically anyone, who, for any reason, differs from what the small, yet extremely vocal high end market consumers deem 'real gaming'.

Inevitably, a number of these 'casual' consumers will gain a vested interest on the hobby, and want to buy better, products. They develop strong opinions on what good games are, and what they aren't, and begin segregating themselves from those who are 'beneath them'. They inevitably become a new generation of 'hardcore' gamers. Of course, their values are hinged on evolved forms of the games they started gaming on, so the TYPE of game the hardcore gamer exalts is in a state of perpetual flux, an ever present ebb and flow with the cycle of the addition of the new consumers and leavings of the old.

Very few of the high end games pre nes (and post simple games like pac man) relied on challenging arcade gameplay.

Typically they relied on high school/ college level reading and cognitive abilities (often on the instruction booklet and included props end) and even arithmitic and in depth stats tracking.

That's why the 'hardcore' gamers hated (feared) Nintendo. They were afraid the kind of things they enjoyed would dissapear, so they lashed out at anything they could to make themselves feel better.

Of course it was completely unecessary, as nintendos gameplay centric games evolved they took on the cinematic/story/sophisticated elements of those games, and quickly surpassed them, while retaining and improving the gameplay they were founded on.

Don't mistake my words, I'm simply lettong people know these times existed and how these people acted. I'm by no means saying they were correct, just that that's how they were.

And, well, are. A vocal minority of the kids who grew up with the nes have proudly shoved their heads up their bums and act the same exact way towards wii/motion controls and mobile games as the hardcore gamers of generations past acted towards nes/snes.

And the cycle goes on.

I can agree with this. I actually couldn't stand motion controls on games beside SMG and SS. So I played my PS3 the majority of the time. Which goes along with what you said, except I grew up on N64 and I still long for the finding random crap genre to return. BK and Mario 64 and DK64 were the best games ever.

[Noonabites]

`

(b'-')b

Nice one.

[3Dude]

I can agree with this. I actually couldn't stand motion controls on games beside SMG and SS. So I played my PS3 the majority of the time. Which goes along with what you said, except I grew up on N64 and I still long for the finding random crap genre to return. BK and Mario 64 and DK64 were the best games ever.

Mine was the n64.

I had a horrible time converting to console 3d. I was so incredibly good at 2d controls, that when I didn't immediately have the same level of proficiency in mario 64 platforming..... It was a harsh reaction, and a harsh rejection... I eventually recovered, and didn't join the ranks of those who left gaming that gen. I'm definately better for the experience.

That being said.... I am a HUUUUGE fan of motion controls.... Yet VERY upset at how nintendo used them.

Nintendo did a wonderful job showing their potential in wii sports.... But did a HORRIBLE job demonstrating their potential with full games like twilight princess and galaxy, and of course third parties followed suit, very strongly reinforcing the erroneous belief waggle was what the potential of motion controls amounted to.

And of course, waggle sucks.

There are only 2 gamez in the entire wii library that make proper use of the notion. controls, red steel 2, and skyward sword.

These games should have been at launch instead of twilight princess and red steel 1.

Then the entire generation would have been based off of ever improving the controls found in ss and rs2, and the games wed have now would have motion controls as flawless in executio. as dual analog.

Can you Imagine if nintendo introduced analog sticks this way? Mario 64 not using the capabilities of the analog stick correctly at all, but instead acting like an 8 way joystick? And only at the end of the consoles life releasing a game that gave you 360 control, and character speed that mached the tilt of the stick?

Such a failure of potential....

Oh well..... The wiis done. Onto the wii u!!!!


Here's something I don't think many people know that zombi u does that makes great use of the wii u.

In game you can make barricades!

You find debris like wood lying on the ground and press b, and the player picks it up, its now held in your hands and cobtrolled via game pad motion controls!

You go up to the door you want to barricade and put the game pad up to the tv as if it was the peice of wood, controlling position and angle with motion, and tap the screen to drive in nails to that spot!

The more boards, the longer it keeps zombies out!

Edited by 3Dude, 12 September 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[BanjoKazooie]

Mine was the n64.

I had a horrible time converting to console 3d. I was so incredibly good at 2d controls, that when I didn't immediately have the same level of proficiency in mario 64 platforming..... It was a harsh reaction, and a harsh rejection... I eventually recovered, and didn't join the ranks of those who left gaming that gen. I'm definately better for the experience.

That being said.... I am a HUUUUGE fan of motion controls.... Yet VERY upset at how nintendo used them.

Nintendo did a wonderful job showing their potential in wii sports.... But did a HORRIBLE job demonstrating their potential with full games like twilight princess and galaxy, and of course third parties followed suit, very strongly reinforcing the erroneous belief waggle was what the potential of motion controls amounted to.

And of course, waggle sucks.

There are only 2 gamez in the entire wii library that make proper use of the notion. controls, red steel 2, and skyward sword.

These games should have been at launch instead of twilight princess and red steel 1.

Then the entire generation would have been based off of ever improving the controls found in ss and rs2, and the games wed have now would have motion controls as flawless in executio. as dual analog.

Can you Imagine if nintendo introduced analog sticks this way? Mario 64 not using the capabilities of the analog stick correctly at all, but instead acting like an 8 way joystick? And only at the end of the consoles life releasing a game that gave you 360 control, and character speed that mached the tilt of the stick?

Such a failure of potential....

Wow, that's a good point, except i liked waggle for SMG, but hated it for TP. And your N64 example was great, I being a 3D gamer do not like 2d games all that much, DKCR is the exception.

[Noonabites]

We really should try to push this thread back on topic..

[Keviin]

With what we heard today, we shouldn't doubt it anymore, though we don't know nearly everything yet.