I don't think your getting the point. It would all be the same in the end as it would be limited to said hardware. Nintendo owning it would not change the limitations. Nor does software change the CPU or GPU in said devices. Sure some companies can compress there code better than others & find different ways of working things out, but we are talking about Microsoft. They are founded on being a software based company first, so hopefully they have some good workers at hand. Yet again, all the good C++ coders in the world are not going to change the outcome of the hardware. These games are all going to be made in the mindset of four directions as it gets even more complex.
Edit: Oh sha, we are not even hardly coding in the 64bit world yet as is. We are still stuck in a bloody 32bit world.
The hardware doesn't really allow for much more than on rails and sports games.
Sort of beat me to it, oh well.
Edited by UnholyVision, 17 November 2012 - 04:16 PM.
The hardware doesn't really allow for much more than on rails and sports games.
I don't think your getting the point. It would all be the same in the end as it would be limited to said hardware. Nintendo owning it would not change the limitations. Nor does software change the CPU or GPU in said devices. Sure some companies can compress there code better than others & find different ways of working things out, but we are talking about Microsoft. They are founded on being a software based company first, so hopefully they have some good workers at hand. Yet again, all the good C++ coders in the world are not going to change the outcome of the hardware. These games are all going to be made in the mindset of four directions as it gets even more complex.
Edit: Oh sha, we are not even hardly coding in the 64bit world yet as is. We are still stuck in a bloody 32bit world.
Sort of beat me to it, oh well.
Robots don't allow for much more than walking and picking up boxes.
The software can change that. It just takes someone seeing a way, like adding a gesture to walking, a controller with a screen on it...
Edited by Nollog, 17 November 2012 - 11:27 PM.
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Robots don't allow for much more than walking and picking up boxes.
The software can change that. It just takes someone seeing a way, like adding a gesture to walking, a controller with a screen on it...
I'm not too knowledgeable on current robot technology but I am fairly certain the hardware plays a large part in what the robot is capable of, but I wont go into that now.
I'm not sure if you've had experience with Kinect or know much about the technology but I really can't see much more use for it than what they have done already. Sure they could make it so a gesture makes the character walk and they might have already done that but if you were using the Kinect alone, as in without a controller, then things would become difficult in aiming around and such. The hardware is really too limited to offer much more, I'm not sure what has you so convinced Nintendo will be able to break through these limitations.
This statement is false. The previous statement is true.
Robots don't allow for much more than walking and picking up boxes.
The software can change that. It just takes someone seeing a way, like adding a gesture to walking, a controller with a screen on it...
No not possible. Let us say you made an array of possible outcomes. A little messy code of C++.
#include <iostream> using namespace std; int main() { int left; int right; int control = 0; int move;
cout<<"Please input your cords to move: "; // Let us just say negative is for left and possitive for right cin>> control; cin.ignore(); if ( control < 0 ) { move = left; } else if ( control > 0 ) { move = right; } else { cout<<"Error invalid movementn"; } cin.get(); }
Now this code displays a left and right movement, but say the robot arm can only move left. If it moves right you could break it making this code pointless.
I am going to college for what is called GSP (Game & Simulation Programing) I can tell you quiet frankly your incorrect.
Edit:
I'm not too knowledgeable on current robot technology but I am fairly certain the hardware plays a large part in what the robot is capable of, but I wont go into that now.
You and your in before me. Shame on you.
Edited by UnholyVision, 17 November 2012 - 11:44 PM.
No not possible. Let us say you made an array of possible outcomes. A little messy code of C++.
#include <iostream> using namespace std; int main() { int left; int right; int control = 0; int move;
cout<<"Please input your cords to move: "; // Let us just say negative is for left and possitive for right cin>> control; cin.ignore(); if ( control < 0 ) { move = left; } else if ( control > 0 ) { move = right; } else { cout<<"Error invalid movementn"; } cin.get(); }
Now this code displays a left and right movement, but say the robot arm can only move left. If it moves right you could break it making this code pointless.
I am going to college for what is called GSP (Game & Simulation Programing) I can tell you quiet frankly your incorrect.
Edit:
You and your in before me. Shame on you.
You're at college for game design and you don't know how much you can do with the right code?
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............... Wow humanity has sunk to a new low..................... I just have no words for this CUD................ I am sorry, but..... Wow....
And you're mean. I'm going to cry.
So what's the reason for the technology of natal not being adapted by Nintendo in a different way than Microsoft attempted to? What's the reason for no integration of the same recorded movement technology that the wiimote's used before motion plus? What's the reasons for not having a wiimote in your hand for pushing a button to walk?
Don't mistake Microsoft's positioning of YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER to be what Nintendo would've done. That messaging is probably the biggest reason you don't see every kinnect game requiring a controller.
Edited by Nollog, 18 November 2012 - 12:56 AM.
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I really do not understand how this is hard to comprehend, I don't really want to be rude, but this has been explained to you. If a piece of hardware was designed for one thing a piece of software can not change the outcome of the limitations of said hardware. For example, if a video card can output at fair frames per second at native 1080p resolutions (native not that upscale crap) and super bad in higher resolutions in say 2000+ resolutions even though it can output in them. No amount of software is going to change that outcome of said GPU's power. Then you speak of good code & the problem is even every language out there to program in has its own limitations. Why the hell do you think there are so many? One does this and that and one focuses on this or that. Nothing is perfect & you're acting as if everything has no limitations regardless of the here and now.
So what's the reason for the technology of natal not being adapted by Nintendo in a different way than Microsoft attempted to? What's the reason for no integration of the same recorded movement technology that the wiimote's used before motion plus? What's the reasons for not having a wiimote in your hand for pushing a button to walk?
Don't mistake Microsoft's positioning of YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER to be what Nintendo would've done. That messaging is probably the biggest reason you don't see every kinnect game requiring a controller.
Kinect has been used in conjunction with the controller in some titles such as Mass Effect 3, me not having played a game that uses it in such a way I can't talk from experience just my impression which is that it seems tacked on and gimmicky. No that in itself doesn't imply Nintendo couldn't have done something better just that I have no reason to believe the technology is capable of anything better even with a controller.
I have been talking about games that are designed around the Kinect as the primary controller. How exactly would it work if you're holding the Wiimote and press a button to walk while Kinect being the primary controller? Would you put the Wiimote down? Or make gestures with your other hand?
I think you're overestimating Nintendo here. Do you think Nintendo is able to make the Wii U or 3DS touch screens multi touch with software alone?
This statement is false. The previous statement is true.
I really do not understand how this is hard to comprehend, I don't really want to be rude, but this has been explained to you.
Differences would occur in an alternate universe where Iwata said yes to the technology.
If a piece of hardware was designed for one thing a piece of software can not change the outcome of the limitations of said hardware.
If the limitation is something like it's designed to do, like read body gestures, why not? If it's something like adding S3D to your games console and it's just kinnect, then you have a point.
For example, if a video card can output at fair frames per second at native 1080p resolutions (native not that upscale crap) and super bad in higher resolutions in say 2000+ resolutions even though it can output in them.
Yes, and a video card can output 800x600 if you want it to. It can do all sorts of resolutions, some have directx 10, some 11. Dunno how it relates. Are you saying even though it can do higher resolutions, it would suck at it?
No amount of software is going to change that outcome of said GPU's power.
That's power, not implementation.
Then you speak of good code & the problem is even every language out there to program in has its own limitations.
Yeah, but what I'm saying is, you can add features to hardware via software. For Example, the Wii can't read DVD's, because the drive spins the opposite direction to the DVD standard, but with some software, you can tell the drive to go the other direction and play DVD's.
Why the hell do you think there are so many? One does this and that and one focuses on this or that. Nothing is perfect & you're acting as if everything has no limitations regardless of the here and now.
Anything is possible, things have limitations, but I don't believe a kinnect game HAS to be on rails. You can add a controller, you can map voice commands to movement, you can wave a stick at it. I'm not saying it would be easy, but saying all kinnect games have to be on rails is silly to me.
Kinect has been used in conjunction with the controller in some titles such as Mass Effect 3, me not having played a game that uses it in such a way I can't talk from experience just my impression which is that it seems tacked on and gimmicky. No that in itself doesn't imply Nintendo couldn't have done something better just that I have no reason to believe the technology is capable of anything better even with a controller.
But it works, it doesn't have to be good, you just have to be able to move. They could do more in mass effect. Map a gimmicky motion to shooting, swodplay, etc.
I have been talking about games that are designed around the Kinect as the primary controller. How exactly would it work if you're holding the Wiimote and press a button to walk while Kinect being the primary controller? Would you put the Wiimote down? Or make gestures with your other hand?
Dunno, if you want kinnect only games you'd probably be stuck with wii sports. I don't think Nintendo would have positioned kinnect as a controllerless controller. Look at most of the games Nintendo made on the Wii, they use more than the wiimote, nunchuck, wiimote sideways with shaking in mario, pointer control wasn't in every game, motion wasn't in every game, some games used the gamecube controller. Doubt they'd have put their eggs in the one basket like Microsoft want to. Is all assumptions and imagination though. who knows.
I think you're overestimating Nintendo here. Do you think Nintendo is able to make the Wii U or 3DS touch screens multi touch with software alone?
Probably. There actually is software that does that by sensing the pressure. It only adds a second finger though, iirc.
Edited by Nollog, 18 November 2012 - 02:36 AM.
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Anything is possible, things have limitations, but I don't believe a kinnect game HAS to be on rails. You can add a controller, you can map voice commands to movement, you can wave a stick at it. I'm not saying it would be easy, but saying all kinnect games have to be on rails is silly to me.
They don't all have to be on rails but on rails games are what works best with the technology. There are other ways of using Kinect but due to the limitations of the technology they just don't work as well as on rails games or sports games that involve simple body tracking.
This statement is false. The previous statement is true.
They don't all have to be on rails but on rails games are what works best with the technology. There are other ways of using Kinect but due to the limitations of the technology they just don't work as well as on rails games or sports games that involve simple body tracking.
Sure they work best. They're easier to make too.
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I assume Microsoft is aware of the type of gamers that Kinect appeals to and aware of Kinect's limitations, considering that, sure, they could be just doing what's easier but on the other hand they could be doing what the Kinect can do best while appealing to their target market.
Meh, this discussion isn't really going anywhere it's mostly hypothetical and based on your (unrealistic) expectations of Nintendo.
Probably. There actually is software that does that by sensing the pressure. It only adds a second finger though, iirc.
I knew that wasn't the best example while I was posting! That wasn't a good example because it's not a limitation of the technology, just not a strong point.
This statement is false. The previous statement is true.
I assume Microsoft is aware of the type of gamers that Kinect appeals to and aware of Kinect's limitations, considering that, sure, they could be just doing what's easier but on the other hand they could be doing what the Kinect can do best while appealing to their target market.
Meh, this discussion isn't really going anywhere it's mostly hypothetical and based on your (unrealistic) expectations of Nintendo.
I knew that wasn't the best example while I was posting! That wasn't a good example because it's not a limitation of the technology, just not a strong point.
ya
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Don't mistake Microsoft's positioning of YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER to be what Nintendo would've done. That messaging is probably the biggest reason you don't see every kinnect game requiring a controller.
You edited this in while I was writing my post so I missed this. Anyway, let us say it was using a method of tracking the controller. It would be just like the PS Eye and still have its faults regardless of what platform it is on.
Differences would occur in an alternate universe where Iwata said yes to the technology.
If the limitation is something like it's designed to do, like read body gestures, why not? If it's something like adding S3D to your games console and it's just kinnect, then you have a point.
Yes, and a video card can output 800x600 if you want it to. It can do all sorts of resolutions, some have directx 10, some 11. Dunno how it relates. Are you saying even though it can do higher resolutions, it would suck at it? That's power, not implementation.
Yeah, but what I'm saying is, you can add features to hardware via software. For Example, the Wii can't read DVD's, because the drive spins the opposite direction to the DVD standard, but with some software, you can tell the drive to go the other direction and play DVD's.
Anything is possible, things have limitations, but I don't believe a kinnect game HAS to be on rails. You can add a controller, you can map voice commands to movement, you can wave a stick at it. I'm not saying it would be easy, but saying all kinnect games have to be on rails is silly to me.
Well please move to this alrenative universe where our current laws of physics do not apply and have it this way. Once you slip through that super small worm hole.
3D is made in two fashions and one can actually be simulated with software. Not sure where your going with this.
It does not matter if you put a 4k resolution on any card. The ultimate ending is would the GPU be able to calculate everything going on, a GPU is just like a CPU and can only handle so much data at a time. The higher the quality of an image means the more pixels and data that must be processed. Then you'll say you can compress this or that yada yada. Then I will say well compress it all you wish, but the more you mess with it the less the quality. (Same applies with sound) If the hardware is not designed for it, it just simply can not do it, period. If this was not the case we would not see new GPU's appear quiet frequently promising this or that.
If a camera has not tech to make it zoom, you can not design software to make it zoom. All the coding languages in the world "BrainWii" included can not change this. DVD's could be read on the Wii because it has a DVD drive. Whilse a blu-ray would not due to the fact it requires a different type of laser. Software can not change the hardware.
With the limitations of the overall said hardware in all console no console would be able to really process any of what your saying. Your loading a games physics engine (deadly coding there, to the point of most all game developers just pay for them. It takes to much bloody time and can be super complex. One reason so many games use say Unreal Engine), other temp data, game overlay & other console related stuff being allocated to ram, GPU gets all the lovely work of the pixels displayed on screen, and tons of other process going on. Not to bloody mention that these consoles are not award winning on power. Half the time they share ram or GPU load onto the CPU. If you want a better result out of what the Kinect could have been designed for, well it would have been better of being made for the PC. It has hexicore CPU's, huge ram capacity (Hell I have 16gb of ram in my gaming/video editing PC), 64bit operating systems to code into (If the designer takes the more painful coding of a 64bit environment over 32bit for that ram & such), much better GPU's with multi-GPU cards at that, and just a much better open OS to code within. None of the consoles your saying is going to handle anything your dreaming up.
Edit:
What don't you understand about making a gesture to walk forward? It's not that hard. If you can make a gesture to shoot a gun in a direction, you can make one to walk in that direction.
That is not the overall point we are trying to make. Sure you can remap something, but that is not what you have been overall putting up...... Sha I feel sorry for humanity & its future.
Meh, this discussion isn't really going anywhere it's mostly hypothetical and based on your (unrealistic) expectations of Nintendo.
I am done with this as well. Explain in different ways it all ends in the same result. Apparently we suck and I suck at what I am going to do as a career, pfft.
Edited by UnholyVision, 18 November 2012 - 03:19 AM.
You edited this in while I was writing my post so I missed this. Anyway, let us say it was using a method of tracking the controller. It would be just like the PS Eye and still have its faults regardless of what platform it is on.
Well please move to this alrenative universe where our current laws of physics do not apply and have it this way. Once you slip through that super small worm hole.
3D is made in two fashions and one can actually be simulated with software. Not sure where your going with this.
It does not matter if you put a 4k resolution on any card. The ultimate ending is would the GPU be able to calculate everything going on, a GPU is just like a CPU and can only handle so much data at a time. The higher the quality of an image means the more pixels and data that must be processed. Then you'll say you can compress this or that yada yada. Then I will say well compress it all you wish, but the more you mess with it the less the quality. (Same applies with sound) If the hardware is not designed for it, it just simply can not do it, period. If this was not the case we would not see new GPU's appear quiet frequently promising this or that.
If a camera has not tech to make it zoom, you can not design software to make it zoom. All the coding languages in the world "BrainWii" included can not change this. DVD's could be read on the Wii because it has a DVD drive. Whilse a blu-ray would not due to the fact it requires a different type of laser. Software can not change the hardware.
With the limitations of the overall said hardware in all console no console would be able to really process any of what your saying. Your loading a games physics engine (deadly coding there, to the point of most all game developers just pay for them. It takes to much bloody time and can be super complex. One reason so many games use say Unreal Engine), other temp data, game overlay & other console related stuff being allocated to ram, GPU gets all the lovely work of the pixels displayed on screen, and tons of other process going on. Not to bloody mention that these consoles are not award winning on power. Half the time they share ram or GPU load onto the CPU. If you want a better result out of what the Kinect could have been designed for, well it would have been better of being made for the PC. It has hexicore CPU's, huge ram capacity (Hell I have 16gb of ram in my gaming/video editing PC), 64bit operating systems to code into (If the designer takes the more painful coding of a 64bit environment over 32bit for that ram & such), much better GPU's with multi-GPU cards at that, and just a much better open OS to code within. None of the consoles your saying is going to handle anything your dreaming up.
What don't you understand about making a gesture to walk forward? It's not that hard. If you can make a gesture to shoot a gun in a direction, you can make one to walk in that direction.
Edited by Nollog, 18 November 2012 - 03:22 AM.
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Didn't the company that made the Kinect's technology actually approach Nintendo about it before they did Microsoft? I guess this goes both ways too.
Though I am very skeptical about how fun a Wii Kinect would have actually been...
I wonder what Nintendo could of done with Kinect.. But seriously a 10 year old could utilize the tech better than Microsoft has.
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I don't think your getting the point. It would all be the same in the end as it would be limited to said hardware. Nintendo owning it would not change the limitations. Nor does software change the CPU or GPU in said devices. Sure some companies can compress there code better than others & find different ways of working things out, but we are talking about Microsoft. They are founded on being a software based company first, so hopefully they have some good workers at hand. Yet again, all the good C++ coders in the world are not going to change the outcome of the hardware. These games are all going to be made in the mindset of four directions as it gets even more complex.
