43 replies to this topic

[Tricky Sonic]

This would be the last thing I would think about in the 90s...

Oh yeah, I was die hard Sega all my life until they exited the console business, still am...but I am a Nintendo guy now since I love the original. Now times have changed and I look at this as being probably better for Sega and Sega fans than Nintendo lol. Nintendo knows first hand what Sega is capable of since they duked it out while Sega was in its prime.

[Socalmuscle]

I would that is so very unlikely. Apple doesn't have enough money to buy Nintendo. At least Sega being bought by Nintendo is some what possible.

Last year, Apple had enough cash to buy Microsoft and google combined.

But Apple is a tightly focused company.

If something doesn't fit into their vision, it won't happen.

Apple is actually in a perfect position to have an iGame system or something. they already have the server farms, the hardware knowhow, the contacts, the software expertise, the user experience, etc. and they built super high quality hardware and software. it's very rare for them to not only succeed, but to not hit a home run. There are a few execptions (mediocre Apple TV appliance, unfinished iOS 6 Maps, lacking MobileMe). On the hardware front, they are always tops (Mac Pro, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Macbook Pro, iMac, etc.) and the software they deliver is usually amazing (OS X, iOS, iWork, iLife, Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, etc.).

But I don't see anyone at Apple who is a "videogame" guy. It just may not fit into their culture. Even with iOS. The games available are nothing more than more Apps to Apple execs.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 07 December 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[blu gamepad]

The OP must not know Hip Hop Gamer very well... He's quite notable on N4G for a reason.

Let me put it this way. The likelihood of Sega being bought out from Nintendo is about as likely as this happening two weeks from today.


I regress however, since you stated this as a rumor.

Edited by blu gamepad, 07 December 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Soul]

I would that is so very unlikely. Apple doesn't have enough money to buy Nintendo. At least Sega being bought by Nintendo is some what possible.

He's joking...All of his posts are jokes.

[SNES]

This would be the last thing I would think about in the 90s...

My friends and I used to debate this all the time back then. In fact, while I was immensely sad that the Dreamcast failed and Sega had to leave the console market, I (and I think many other fans) were very excited about the possibility of Sega and Nintendo making games together. During the 90's this was almost blasphemous talk of course. But it was fun to think about.

Honestly I can totally see this happening. Nintendo isn't Apple rich, but right now they are sitting on a HUGE amount of cash and they need every edge they can get against Sony and MS's next systems. They may speak in public about "not being competitors", but they are, they know it, and they know what failed them last cycle was the software content the Wii had. Sega not only has great IP's, they have A LOT of them, they have experienced developers, and a strong brand (if tarnished a bit, but it is well known and popular even after their mistakes). The best part is that Sega has let a lot of those IP's languish, so even if Nintendo bought them and put out say....a Panzer Dragoon or Shining Force game, no one would complain about rehashed content. We've already seen Sega get closer to Nintendo, and honestly I can't see Sony or MS buying them except to screw Nintendo out of exclusives. Sammy isn't happy with Sega as the division has been bleeding cash for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if Sega was quietly on the chopping block either. It's really the perfect storm, so I can absolutely see the rumors being true.

[hubang]

...
Honestly I can totally see this happening. Nintendo isn't Apple rich, but right now they are sitting on a HUGE amount of cash and they need every edge they can get against Sony and MS's next systems.
...

Where are you getting this information from? To say they have a HUGE amount of cash seems like conjecture to me.

For over a year, Nintendo has been at an operating loss (their expenses are greater than their income). This has been known up until their last financial quarter ending September. There are tons of articles on this but here are two:

http://techcrunch.co...tendo-earnings/
http://www.theverge....nancial-results

Various sources have claimed that they have been selling the Wii U at a loss and only see a profit after 1 game is sold, and they currently average 1.2 games sold per unit.

http://www.gamesindu...mes-per-console

I honestly don't see how Nintendo could realistically purchase Sega from a financial standpoint without leveraging their assets, which they are unlikely to do with all the industry uncertainty revolving around the Wii U.

[lucario23]

Where are you getting this information from? To say they have a HUGE amount of cash seems like conjecture to me.

For over a year, Nintendo has been at an operating loss (their expenses are greater than their income). This has been known up until their last financial quarter ending September. There are tons of articles on this but here are two:

http://techcrunch.co...tendo-earnings/
http://www.theverge....nancial-results

Various sources have claimed that they have been selling the Wii U at a loss and only see a profit after 1 game is sold, and they currently average 1.2 games sold per unit.

http://www.gamesindu...mes-per-console

I honestly don't see how Nintendo could realistically purchase Sega from a financial standpoint without leveraging their assets, which they are unlikely to do with all the industry uncertainty revolving around the Wii U.

how many wii's and DS's and countless games for each did they sell last gen? The DS is the second best selling hardware of all time and they were making a profit that whole time, plus the wii owned this last gen in number of units sold. what makes you think Nintendo doesn't have a large pot of cash from the past six years stored up? one year losing a little cash while releasing the 3DS which is outselling the DS for the time it's been out, and a successful launch of the Wii U means they are more than fine money.

[SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I'm up for that, we might actually get a decent Sonic game again in the classic style, BUT I know it's unrealistic but I always wanted to see Sega make a comeback to the hardware business, I would have loved to have seen what they could do with modern tech, crazy dream I know but a Man can dream amirite?

[hubang]

how many wii's and DS's and countless games for each did they sell last gen? The DS is the second best selling hardware of all time and they were making a profit that whole time, plus the wii owned this last gen in number of units sold. what makes you think Nintendo doesn't have a large pot of cash from the past six years stored up? one year losing a little cash while releasing the 3DS which is outselling the DS for the time it's been out, and a successful launch of the Wii U means they are more than fine money.

The facts:

Here's their cash flow in a 5-year trend to-date:
http://www.marketwat...cials/cash-flow

Numbers in parentheses are an outflow, not a loss. A company can have a negative cash flow and still enjoy a profit.

However, here is their income statement:
http://www.marketwat...tdoy/financials

Their net income is a net loss compared to previous years. If this trend continues in the long run (large outflow of cash and net loss), they will eventually go bankrupt. If the Wii U (and their other products) succeeds, they will pull out of the red. It is my opinion that Sega will not undergo acquisition by Nintendo until they pull themselves out of the red. A merger is also highly unlikely.

As far as your large pot of cash that I didn't address; I don't speculate on how companies store/spend their cash. Sure, Nintendo could have enough in the vault. What I will speculate on is that Sega has not created any highly-acclaimed releases in years to my knowledge, and I don't see why Nintendo at an operating loss would take expensive risks in that regard when it has its own uncertainties to settle.

Maybe not the best analogy, but if I'm behind on bills and have savings, I'd be taking a huge risk in going out and buying something major (say, property) to finance those bills.

[Goose]

Nintendo sold 100 million Wii's and 150 million Ds's. That's 250 million consoles at a profit from the start. This is not including software either. Nintendo has money to buySega if they want to. I just don't think they do.

[xMichiyo]

I'd be very happy to see Sega bought by Nintendo.

Maybe the games would go back to being, uh, good. :/

[hubang]

Nintendo sold 100 million Wii's and 150 million Ds's. That's 250 million consoles at a profit from the start. This is not including software either. Nintendo has money to buySega if they want to. I just don't think they do.

Allow me to play devil's advocate for just a bit longer.

It is not as simple as Wii and DS sales alone. Those may be the hardware units that Nintendo sold for a small profit (I think the Wii was $6 per unit?), but what about the 3DS (until recently) and now Wii U that they sold at a loss?

As far as software, most software sales with Nintendo are first party titles, and they lose out majorly on significant licensing fees. Piracy was rampant for all the aforementioned systems, present one excepted.

And what about the billions Nintendo lost on the currency exchange when there was serious fluctuation?

I'm not saying that the coffers aren't substantial or that they don't have enough to acquire Sega; I just don't think they are as gargantuan as everyone thinks.

[Goose]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for just a bit longer.

It is not as simple as Wii and DS sales alone. Those may be the hardware units that Nintendo sold for a small profit (I think the Wii was $6 per unit?), but what about the 3DS (until recently) and now Wii U that they sold at a loss?

As far as software, most software sales with Nintendo are first party titles, and they lose out majorly on significant licensing fees. Piracy was rampant for all the aforementioned systems, present one excepted.

And what about the billions Nintendo lost on the currency exchange when there was serious fluctuation?

I'm not saying that the coffers aren't substantial or that they don't have enough to acquire Sega; I just don't think they are as gargantuan as everyone thinks.

Fair points. I also don't believe they would really want to, or if Sega would even consider selling itself. I am more inclined to believe in the rumor that intendo is going to pay third party developers to develop exclusives on the Wii U rather than buy new studios outright.

[Gamejunkie]

Wow dude - can you be any more of a total Tool? I'm sure you can. No reason for you to be a dick. I posted my opinion which I'm free to do. It's not my fault you read way to far into responses.

Umm no ....I do have a right to challenge your opinion just like you have a right to challenge mine. There's no need to act so immature and post insults. It doesn't do you any favours and makes what you day less credible.

[Keviin]

It's a rumor for a reason. If it wasn't for rumors...the gaming industry wouldn't be nearly as fun.

This is a big possibility. Sega is owned by Sammy and with the current restructuring going on its obvious they are loosing money. If Nintendo had the choice of never having another Sega game on any console, or buying them for exclusives..you better believe they would buy them. If the price is right ( and it probably would be since this is long from Sega's glory days) I can see Nintendo buying Sega and trying to retool the internal development teams while they were in their prime. Nintendo gets a ridiculously huge and epic back library of games to work on. For Sega this could be the shot in the arm they need as well. It would really be a win win.

It would be really funny if Nintendo buys sega tho, because of their rivalry (Sega does wat Nintendon't) back in the day. It would be kind of like a "Yeah you're cool, but we were better all this time so F**k you, we'll just buy you" You know, I can't explain it properly. It'd just be funny as hell. And also the best thing for Sega.

[alan123]

He's joking...All of his posts are jokes.

i wasn't joking !

i never joke !

[Tricky Sonic]

Umm no ....I do have a right to challenge your opinion just like you have a right to challenge mine. There's no need to act so immature and post insults. It doesn't do you any favours and makes what you day less credible.

Dude you cause arguments on the forums with quite a few people. You are a glorified troll and No one likes you, if your going to continue to be this way then don't even respond or quote to posts.

[MorbidGod]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for just a bit longer.

It is not as simple as Wii and DS sales alone. Those may be the hardware units that Nintendo sold for a small profit (I think the Wii was $6 per unit?), but what about the 3DS (until recently) and now Wii U that they sold at a loss?

As far as software, most software sales with Nintendo are first party titles, and they lose out majorly on significant licensing fees. Piracy was rampant for all the aforementioned systems, present one excepted.

And what about the billions Nintendo lost on the currency exchange when there was serious fluctuation?

I'm not saying that the coffers aren't substantial or that they don't have enough to acquire Sega; I just don't think they are as gargantuan as everyone thinks.

Even if those numbers from the anylist are corrrect, thats 600m dollars made in console sales only. Not including controllers or software sales. Nor is that including DS sales, which if you assune 6 dollars per unit sold, and factor in Wii profits, Nintendo has made over a billion dollars in the last six years.

Yes, Nintendo might have lost money the last year ... considering they are selling 3DS at a loss and were busy making the Wii U, which wasn't cheap. And since it is the end of the DS and Wii's life, they weren't making as much as they were. This is normal and to be expected.

However your arguement seems to be different. You are trying to make sense of such a purchase and seeing if it would make sense finacially for Nintendo to make such a big purchase. That is a different question all together and not one either you or I can answer.

But, Sega probably isn't worth billions, I would say millions. Per share is like under 5 dollars right now. Nintendo would never buy all of Sega, just buy Sammy's shares.

And why would Nintendo buy them? Maybe for the IP's, maybe because they have actually made profit in the last couple years. Maybe ... for whatevet reason.

I do agree that Nintendo may not buy Sega. But i don't agree that they couldn't. They could.

[hubang]

Even if those numbers from the anylist are corrrect, thats 600m dollars made in console sales only. Not including controllers or software sales. Nor is that including DS sales, which if you assune 6 dollars per unit sold, and factor in Wii profits, Nintendo has made over a billion dollars in the last six years.

Yes, Nintendo might have lost money the last year ... considering they are selling 3DS at a loss and were busy making the Wii U, which wasn't cheap. And since it is the end of the DS and Wii's life, they weren't making as much as they were. This is normal and to be expected.

However your arguement seems to be different. You are trying to make sense of such a purchase and seeing if it would make sense finacially for Nintendo to make such a big purchase. That is a different question all together and not one either you or I can answer.

But, Sega probably isn't worth billions, I would say millions. Per share is like under 5 dollars right now. Nintendo would never buy all of Sega, just buy Sammy's shares.

And why would Nintendo buy them? Maybe for the IP's, maybe because they have actually made profit in the last couple years. Maybe ... for whatevet reason.

I do agree that Nintendo may not buy Sega. But i don't agree that they couldn't. They could.

Nintendo has made well over a single billion in the last 6 years. Since we are fans of speculating, I will speculate that they might have around $10 billion USD in the vault. However, that is merely an educated guess.

http://www.nintendow....com/news/28241

This article shows that in 2011 they posted a net loss of 70 billion yen, largely based on aforementioned exchange rate gyration.

It is easy to bust out a calculator and crunch out simple profit numbers. And it is easy to assume that because there are tons of sales, Nintendo must yield major bucks. The point of my posts was to say that there are other factors that contribute to heavily serious losses.

I will correct you in that the 3DS was only in its initial production sold at a loss; it now yields a profit.

As far as what you or I can and cannot answer: yes we cannot definitively answer on Nintendo's behalf, but you merely have to examine the facts to arrive at what is probable and sensible. This is critical in investment decision-making.

I have never said that Nintendo cannot buy Sega, only that it would be a highly risky decision in its current financial state, and thus unlikely. Nintendo no doubt has the savings to cover operating losses for the foreseeable future, but not if it starts going out and buying companies like Sega.

[MorbidGod]

Nintendo has made well over a single billion in the last 6 years. Since we are fans of speculating, I will speculate that they might have around $10 billion USD in the vault. However, that is merely an educated guess.

http://www.nintendow....com/news/28241

This article shows that in 2011 they posted a net loss of 70 billion yen, largely based on aforementioned exchange rate gyration.

It is easy to bust out a calculator and crunch out simple profit numbers. And it is easy to assume that because there are tons of sales, Nintendo must yield major bucks. The point of my posts was to say that there are other factors that contribute to heavily serious losses.

I will correct you in that the 3DS was only in its initial production sold at a loss; it now yields a profit.

As far as what you or I can and cannot answer: yes we cannot definitively answer on Nintendo's behalf, but you merely have to examine the facts to arrive at what is probable and sensible. This is critical in investment decision-making.

I have never said that Nintendo cannot buy Sega, only that it would be a highly risky decision in its current financial state, and thus unlikely. Nintendo no doubt has the savings to cover operating losses for the foreseeable future, but not if it starts going out and buying companies like Sega.

Your first post made it seem like your,arguement was Nintendo couldn't. Your second post made it more clear you were talking about the risk of doing so.

Which I still say we can't do that for Nintendo. If they purchase them, the IP's they will get are enough to add to Sega's overall value. Sonic being made with Nintendo and Sonic Team would be amazing. Then Phanasty Star Online is another great game Sega owns. And these are two examples I can come up with. Other Sega fans can give you a whole list of games that Nintendo would now have access too.

So again, without knowing why Nintendo is purchasing Sega (which I all ready stated I don't see it being likely) then we can't see the possible value in it. We can only speculate.