103 replies to this topic

[Nollog]

K which race has had it as bad as African/African descendants?

http://en.wikipedia....i/The_Holocaust

Every race, creed, religion, faith, person has been held under a more powerful person at one point.
The ability to rise above, and get over those past events is what separates a great person from a bitter person looking for an excuse.

[Gimbal]

There is a some theories we all descend from Africa dating back to the earliest days of evolution. One could also state Jewish people were enslaved tortured discriminated for thousands of years. White people are actually a minority in the worlds population.

 

I am not saying anyone has had it worse or they had it better than some as a definite but it is something that could be debated if people really wanted to.

 

I was trying to be clear what I meant by "Black People" but I guess I failed.

 

That bold doesn't matter at all, but you're right about Jews.

http://en.wikipedia....i/The_Holocaust

Every race, creed, religion, faith, person has been held under a more powerful person at one point.
The ability to rise above, and get over those past events is what separates a great person from a bitter person looking for an excuse.

 

I was hoping you wouldn't use that one =/.

Edited by Symphony, 07 March 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

That's not really true. White people just get far less extreme forms of racism in Europe and North America. Probably most other places too. Either way Black People have it worst.

 

I'm not white, so I could be wrong, but in those places, I'm pretty sure there is a pretty big part of the population that would say they've never experienced racism.

 

1. Asked me if I was black.
2. Refused to believe I was a race.
3. Etc.

 

Let's start with the fact that neither of these things make me racist. Asking what race someone on the internet is like asking for gender, hair colour, weight etc. If you want to know about it, you have to ask.

As for why i asked you things, that's because 1. it's very easy to blow racism off or say that other people experience problems at the same level as black people when you're white. Not so easy to say when you're black. 2. I asked for proof because well, first off the thing I just said, second of all your Miiverse ID is white, and that's the only image of you I can really go by.

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/The_Holocaust

Every race, creed, religion, faith, person has been held under a more powerful person at one point.
The ability to rise above, and get over those past events is what separates a great person from a bitter person looking for an excuse.

 

Yeah everyone has experienced it, but black people have experienced it quite possibly (almost definitely) the most. Certainly more than white people.

I agree it's important to rise above past events, but let's be honest. First of all, there is still a lot of racism. It's more subtle, and it's not as frequent, but there is still a lot of it. I've had it happen to me quite a few times in my pretty short life. I've seen it on the news more times than I count in my short life. Ever noticed that North American news channels will practically never show white people's dead bodies, but if it's another race (in another country) it's ok? Pictures of genocide? Broadcast 'em. Pictures of 9/11? Sorry, you want to do what?

 

Secondly, I hope by getting over these events, you don't mean forgetting them. Yes, the things people did long ago do not reflect the current state of society, and the decendents of those people will not necassarily behave in the same way as their predecessors.That doesn't mean we should just pretend those things didn't happen. It's an important part of history. Like you said, "The ability to rise above... is what separates a great person from a bitter person looking for an excuse." Well, blacks in north america fought their way from slavery to equal members of society (at least legally speaking) over the course of decades, and through a lot of great people. I think those great people, like any, deserve to be remembered.

 

Let me begin my third point by saying I personally have no problem with any race. I have lived surrounded by pretty much every race my whole life, and have always been taught to look upon them equally, and so I do so as best I can. I admittedly stereotype sometimes, though. It's something I try not to do, but sometimes stereotypes have base, and so it's just almost impossible not to. An example is assuming most of the white kids I go to class with weren't spanked as kids. Most of them weren't, and so it's hard to break that stereotype, because I, like anyone else, learn from past experiences.
 

Which brings me to that last part of your post: "a bitter person looking for an excuse". Now I, in no way condone people who blame everything on "the white man keeping us down", but that doesn't mean that that statement is completely untrue. Like I just said, stereotypes are hard to break. Black people are stereotyped quite often, so of course they will encounter said stereotyping from people who hold oppurtunity or power over them. And sometimes they won't get jobs, or will get in trouble when they shouldn't have because of this. Of course that doesn't meant this is true 100% of the time, and therefore it is quite certainly 100% possible for pretty much every black in north america person to at least make good progress towards getting their family out of poverty. To be honest, this excuse is more of a problem for blacks, because when the blacks you're talking about use this excuse when it is unwarranted, or untrue, it desensitzes people to the argument, and therefore when people use it when it is warranted, ir true we get the response you gave. In fact that response has become an extremely common one these days, which I find somewhat worrying.

 

 On a related note, I think I should remind you (and I'm reminding you because you sound pretty resentful towards those who do make this excuse when unwarranted) that you should try and see where people who say these things are coming from. For the pupose of this specific example, I think it's appropiate to mention I'm talking about more than just blacks. I'll include aboriginals, as well, since quite often they are in a similar position.

 

Let's say you know this guy/girl (there's a good chance you actually know this type of person in real life) who goes around generally being a scumbag to everyone, beating people up, lying, calling people names, etc. Everyone hates him/her. But then he/she realizes he/she is a pretty big douche and starts trying to change him/herself. Eventually he/she is a pretty nice guy/girl. But there are going to be a lot of people who just still don't trust him/her. The reason for this is quite simple: he/she has done a lot of bad things to a lot of different people and people don't easily forget those things. This is especially true if you haven't really come into contact with him/her much since he was a scumbag. Why should you trust him/her? Just because people say so? Don't think so.

 

Hopefully you can understand that metaphor (think it was pretty straightforward). Now once again, I'm not saying it's right, but just try to understand at least where that idea comes from. There's no doubt that whites especially have a long, long (oh so long) track record for seriously messing up other races in a lot of really messed up ways, and that a lot of it still causes a lot of messed stuff today. I know generationally speaking, the past few generations have not been nearly as bad as the large number before them, but if you look at the amount of time being -basically- really crappy, to the amount of time not being really crappy, ratio-wise, whites have a lot more negative than positive stuff in their past, and it's gonna take a while more for people some people to get over it (especially when they have constant reminders).

 

Anyway, this is a pretty touchy subject, and I tried to choose my words very carefully (it's going to be one of the few posts I proof read well before I submit), but there were somethings that were very hard to word to correctly reflect their respective situations. If you have any thoughts, just reply. I'm seriously very interested in hearing your response.

Actually I'm going to specifically ask you respond, cause I spent a crapload of time on this post (I think nearing 1 and a half to 2 hours) ._.

[Auzzie Wingman]

Point is, the ad wasn't racist. If it was, you need to take the pencil out of your butt.

[Lupaie]

Secondly, I hope by getting over these events, you don't mean forgetting them. Yes, the things people did long ago do not reflect the current state of society, and the decendents of those people will not necassarily behave in the same way as their predecessors.That doesn't mean we should just pretend those things didn't happen. It's an important part of history. Like you said, "The ability to rise above... is what separates a great person from a bitter person looking for an excuse." Well, blacks in north america fought their way from slavery to equal members of society (at least legally speaking) over the course of decades, and through a lot of great people. I think those great people, like any, deserve to be remembered.

 

 

There have always been people who think that they're better than another group of people in one way of the other. The Greek had racism to what city you came from, the Egyptians and Romans had slaves, not alone from foreign races but also within its system of culture. The Dutch, English, French and Espanian slaves in the Golden Century too and then we haven't started talking about the different wars of the last century which were almost all triggered by ideas based on racism. In our country I believe the Muslims have it harder than afro-american people. We never really had problems with people from say, Poland and Czechy. Yet since a couple of years, by opening many borders, they are doing jobs much cheaper than autochtone people and so the new-found racism started, even in our country and it is feeded by the government, yet these groups are small but will always excist. The same thing happened thirty years ago too, with Spanish, Moroccan and Italians coming to our country to work in mines and factory's. What I mean to say is, When we stick to what happend in the past....we would all be victims to rasicm one way or another. And as long as there are people, there will always be one who thinks better of himself than others.

 

Back to the commercial, I truly didn't see why it could be racist, until someone told me exactly how they thought it was rasict. Linking black people to eating much chicken. Well, I do understand, but isn't it exactly the same as how we call Italians Pizza or Pasta-eaters, and Belgiums as Chips-eaters? I am partly(50%) Italian and couldn't care less. By giving these articles more and more attention the only thing it does do is giving people, innocent as they might be, a taste that everything can be interpretated as racism. And that is what I hate. I hate how some people always bring up rasicm and stick to it, many good willing people find themselves cornered by these extreme easy to insult people. 

Ps sorry for my poor English.

Edited by Lupaie, 09 March 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Zinix]

Point is, the ad wasn't racist. If it was, you need to take the pencil out of your butt.

Exacctly. 

[xile6]

I see it that people are saying its racises because normally ads are full of white people but yet there is an ad about chicken and it has a black person in it.

 

Basically saying that black people love chicken.

 

I believe that that is what people are seeing.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

There have always been people who think that they're better than another group of people in one way of the other. The Greek had racism to what city you came from, the Egyptians and Romans had slaves, not alone from foreign races but also within its system of culture. The Dutch, English, French and Espanian slaves in the Golden Century too and then we haven't started talking about the different wars of the last century which were almost all triggered by ideas based on racism. In our country I believe the Muslims have it harder than afro-american people. We never really had problems with people from say, Poland and Czechy. Yet since a couple of years, by opening many borders, they are doing jobs much cheaper than autochtone people and so the new-found racism started, even in our country and it is feeded by the government, yet these groups are small but will always excist. The same thing happened thirty years ago too, with Spanish, Moroccan and Italians coming to our country to work in mines and factory's. What I mean to say is, When we stick to what happend in the past....we would all be victims to rasicm one way or another. And as long as there are people, there will always be one who thinks better of himself than others.

 

I don't live in America, so I can't say for sure, but I know I've never heard of a serious racist incident happening to muslims. Oh I'm sure they happen all the time, but obviously not big enough or often enough to make national news. Black son the other hand? All the time. Not to mention it's been happening for the past couple hundred years. And the thing with polish and czech people is barely an argument. Yes they were treated badly, but the blacks were still always treated worse than them, and now america has moved past that, and their perfectly accepted, while blacks are not. If we stick to the past, everyone has been victims of racism, but blacks have been victims to almost everyone everywhere they go. Actually not even everywhere they go, since they were victims of racism when Africa was colonized as well. Didn't have to go anywhere for that. Also if you shoot to the present, guess who probably stil experiences the most racism world-wide? Blacks.

 

Which leads me to a question for everyone on this thread. Why is it so hard for you guys to believe that when so many black people, and (almost) only black people say that they experience the most racism world-wide, that maybe they actually do?

[Lupaie]

I'm not saying the black people don't get discrimated. But that many people who are discriminated use "this is discrimination" to often, even in innocent commercials such as kfc. By using it for everything people are fed-up with it. I say, ban discrimination whenever there's a clear point and, in this case, black people are really damaged. But like in this thread, most people just didn't see/get why it should be discrimination.

Ever heard the story about the sheep who shouted that he saw a wolf? Yes, he shouted it twice, wrongfully. The third time nobody believed him, and he was killed.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I'm not saying the black people don't get discrimated. But that many people who are discriminated use "this is discrimination" to often, even in innocent commercials such as kfc. By using it for everything people are fed-up with it. I say, ban discrimination whenever there's a clear point and, in this case, black people are really damaged. But like in this thread, most people just didn't see/get why it should be discrimination.

Ever heard the story about the sheep who shouted that he saw a wolf? Yes, he shouted it twice, wrongfully. The third time nobody believed him, and he was killed.

 

But you're still not admitting that black people are discriminated against the most. Also, I'd like to remind (every one) that this ad could easily be seen as racist. I'm not saying it is, but it could be. Also, this isn't the first time KFC has made ads that are questionably racist. I've seen one before that was definitely pretty shady, and if it's shady, it's pretty weird that they didn't notice it could be seen as racist. Also, there are a lot, I mean a LOT, a LOT, a LOT of times where people genuinely are racist, and people straight up don't see it. I have seen it so many times I could not even start counting. Also, even when something is clearly racist, often people will ignore because of this disillusion that racism against blacks doesn;t really happen in whatever country, and only really happens in America.

I'll give you my personal favourite example, that happened to me when I was 11 - 12.

Let me preface with the fact I live in Canada, where 38 percent of people say that we've overcome racism in out country. Also, I'm a Christian.

 

So a girl who doesn't like me (and two of her friends), comes up to me near the end of recess, and is bothering me, trying to get a reaction out of me. I'm ignoring, them, not reacting.They go away, talk and laugh for a bit, and come back. I seem to remember this happened a couple times.  Finally, they come up to me and says: "Hey WydrA, is God a nice person?" (verbatim)

At this point, I was already annoyed, so I flipped at them. won't go into detail about what I said, it's unimportant. Just know that I didn't insult them in any way. I may have threatened (i don't remember) at most. It would have been an empty threat any way.

So I go inside, and go to class. My friends can see I'm being bothered by something. I eventually spill the incident. My Pakistani friend after a significant amount of time, convinces me to tell my teacher. Teacher is shocked, tells me to go tell the principal. I tell the principle, he asks me if I want all the girls suspended. I say no, that's okay, an apology will be enough. They come and apologize. Yeah whatever, we goo back to class.

I don't know what happened here, but for some reason, the girl who asked the question doesn't show up to school for the next couple days - weeks. I'm not sure if it was related or not, but basically, everyone turned on me. I got crap for telling on her. Eventually even my Pakistani friend who told me to tell changed his mind and said that no, I shouldn't have told. As far as I know, after a couple weeks, I was the only one (besides the teachers (who knew about it) I guess) who even considered he incident to really be racist any more.

In other words, the only person who thought the incident was racist, was the black person who i happened to. That's why I think the minority race is the race that should be trusted most in calling racism out. It's too easy for the majority to reason that it isn't. For another example, see: Trayvon Martin case.

 

Yes, I do know the (we say boy) who cried wolf story, but I don't think it really applies here. What you're saying is because there have been occasions where single black people have called racism when there wasn't racism, that the whole race is just probably like that, and that it's probably not true. I mean there's never been an indecent where pretty much black person has said we're being treated unfairly and it wasn't true, so where do our two false cries come from?

[Lupaie]

1 But you're still not admitting that black people are discriminated against the most. 

 

2 So a girl who doesn't like me:

 

3 Where do our two false cries come from?

I live in The Netherlands and am half Italian, Christian too.

 

1) I don't have to admit anything since this has nothing to do with the KFC story

2) Happened to me all the time. It's called bullying and has nothing to do with racism....kids say stuff, ignore it.
3) Seen it happening all the time. Foreign people who provocate teachers, government officials such as cops, firemen or coaches, with the term racism all the time. Up to a level where most of the class is annoyed at the person for pulling everything into a racial thing.

 

I don't say there isn't racism, but am saying that if we should concentrate on the ones who are really hurtful, and I can't see this commercial as such.

Edited by Lupaie, 10 March 2014 - 03:03 AM.

[Tom]

Wanna know why black people like fried chicken?

 

Because fried chicken tastes good.

[YoshiGamer9]

It's racist 'cause black people like fried chicken.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I live in The Netherlands and am half Italian, Christian too.

 

1) I don't have to admit anything since this has nothing to do with the KFC story

2) Happened to me all the time. It's called bullying and has nothing to do with racism....kids say stuff, ignore it.
3) Seen it happening all the time. Foreign people who provocate teachers, government officials such as cops, firemen or coaches, with the term racism all the time. Up to a level where most of the class is annoyed at the person for pulling everything into a racial thing.

 

I don't say there isn't racism, but am saying that if we should concentrate on the ones who are really hurtful, and I can't see this commercial as such.

 

1) Oh come on, we've almost completely moved away from the KFC story. It sounds to me like you don't want to admit it because you don't think it's true.

2) Really? So, if a person asks me, a black person, if God is a nice person (bolded because maybe you missed that part) it's not racist... how? Do you think she would ask any other race that, no matter how much she disliked them? Also, since when is 12 too young to understand that you shouldn't be saying nice person ever, let alone to a black person? And no, why the buck would I ignore it? Why would I ignore someone being just about as blatatly racist as you can get these days?

3) Well, a) once again, those are individuals. there are also white people who do the same thing, but no one takes them seriously because the rest of their race only calls racism when it actually happens, like in Zimbabwe and South Africa. So I'll ask again, how come it's different for black people? How come when the WHOLE RACE says there is racism, we get ignored, and not any other race?

Also, after what you just said about ignoring someone ask me if God is a nice person, I really don't think you understand what "really hurtful" is. Does lyncvhing have to come back for you to see it. That incident, to this day, as I type still makes me so angry feel like crying a bit. But I should just ignore it? I'm not really being hurt. That is straight up bucking insane.

 

Wanna know why black people like fried chicken?

 

Because fried chicken tastes good.

 

I think the stereotype came from the fact that black people were seen in KFC more frequently because they have a higher poverty rate, and KFC is cheap. Also, like you said, it tastes great.

[Mignaga]

Wanna know why black people like fried chicken?

 

Because fried chicken tastes good.

So if I like fried chicken I'm black? Cool, I guess I'm black then.

[Lupaie]

Am not saying Black people are not targets for discrimination. And yes, if you like to hear it, I agree that black people are a very large group and discriminated the most...in the USA. I really think mid-eastern people have it much harder in Europe. But yeah, I also believe black people are discriminated here too.

I have many friends, black, asian, eastern, gay, christian and muslims, and I talk with them as equals. As such, I might offend them sometimes because I don't speak limited to what might be offensive. If I hit a nerve, I receive a punch, and we carry on.

I think many Americans are almost Christian Extremists. You receive insults and are so over the top angry, when our bible says 'turn the other cheek'. Thus saying, forget about those insults, carry on, those people are not worth your time and attention.

Edited by Lupaie, 10 March 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[SteventheSlayer]

Am I the only one who doesn't like fried chicken, and thus is by extension not black? 

 

I have opinions on this matter too, but honestly, what's the point? All it would cause is more arguments that won't ever be solved, as both sides won't change their views. 

 

It's the funny thing about arguments, one side won't stop because they are right, and the other because they are stubborn. (This isn't always right, of course, sometimes both times are wrong and stubborn.)

[Tom]

So if I like fried chicken I'm black? Cool, I guess I'm black then.

The whole joke of that post is that skin color is completely irrelevant to how food tastes.

 

I'll give you a second chance to read the post again, though use more than just your eyes to interpret it.

Edited by Tom, 10 March 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Mignaga]

The whole joke of that post is that skin color is completely irrelevant to how food tastes.

 

I'll give you a second chance to read the post again, though use more than just your eyes to interpret it.

I was playing off your joke into my own joke. T o T Come on Tom, get on my joke level.

[Tom]

I was playing off your joke into my own joke. T o T Come on Tom, get on my joke level.