200 replies to this topic

[routerbad]

Actually, the wii u can do far better than the 1080p Zelda demo. And the final hardware is a good bit more powerful than the e3 2011 prototype hardware. And even the early hardware was capable of more as Epic had mentioned.

Nintendo doesn't bait and switch like Sony does. In fact, they usually under promise and over deliver.

This. Nintendo make sure to point out in 2011 "This is not the final hardware, these are only interactive demonstrations of the prototype hardware, and not actual game footage". Sony, on the other hand...

[Alex Wolfers]

i dont wanna piss on everyones parade here but you people do realize the Zelda tech demo never ran in 1080p @ 60FPS.

http://www.eurogamer...-vs-e3-nintendo

the wii u ran that demo in 720p with no AA and @ 30FPS

Did you even see all of the other peoples replies to your first tech demo related posts? The point is that the final product can be much less impressive than the flashy tech demo. This happens most with Sony.

[Tacomywaffles]

Did you even see all of the other peoples replies to your first tech demo related posts? The point is that the final product can be much less impressive than the flashy tech demo. This happens most with Sony.

yes i have and they kept saying the zelda demo is 1080p thus validating my response!

and if what you tell me holds true what does that tell us about nintendos tech demo?

[routerbad]

yes i have and they kept saying the zelda demo is 1080p thus validating my response!

and if what you tell me holds true what does that tell us about nintendos tech demo?

Its been posted on these forums as well, the differences for Zelda tech demos and the product that makes it onto the machine for which it was being demoed.

As was just said Nintendo always underpromises with their tech demos. Gotta pay attention bud Also, the whole point of the Zelda tech demo was to show off the lighting, and given that the demo was pulled off on prototype hardware that was being modified up until just before release, and the fact that even Nintendo didn't know how to code for it yet, I'd bet they'll have plenty of better things to show off now.

Edited by routerbad, 28 February 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[kokkeman]

And aren't we all forgetting that the wii u is capable of generating 3 different fulscreens at the same time? Remeber that It will be possible to use a second gamepad!! i tell ya, the Wii u is a devil in disguise.

[Socalmuscle]

Did you even see all of the other peoples replies to your first tech demo related posts? The point is that the final product can be much less impressive than the flashy tech demo. This happens most with Sony.

I don't remember, but I thought the 720p idea (of a non-demanding demo on alpha hardware no less) was simply due to screenshots that they had been given, being set at a certain resolution.

 

Perhaps it was 720p or perhaps it was 1080p.  I don't know.

 

But WHAT IS HILARIOUS is that Sony specifically mentions PS4 GAMES will NOT render at 4k resolution, but it will upscale MOVIES and playback native 4K MOVIES.

 

NOT GAMES!!!!!!!!

 

YET, when sony sounds out press screen shots of their games, guess what resolution they are... 4K... LOL

 

Case in point - http://blogs-images..../KZ4_Chase1.jpg

 

All of the game images sent to Forbes, etc. from sony are in that fake resolution.

 

That image is in 4K resolution as defined by Wikipedia as Ultra High Definition Television at 3840 x 2160 resolution.

 

not only is sony oblivious to how obviously fake that makes their press screenshots, it seems no one is reporting it either.

 

Not only was their presentation filled with target renders and who knows what (I hope to Heaven the PS4 is capable of more than what they showed...), but then they go and ADD pixels to their screenshots so that the non-discriminating public can post them in forums saying "look at how much better these are..." and it isn't even representative of the actual tech demo or target render.

 

Classic Sony.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 01 March 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[MorbidGod]

very true, they both look good but there is no denying that the ps4 demo looks quite a bit better





how do both of you you know it's not real time? the hud if you could call it that, is present in the bottom left corner.

dont get me wrong, i too am sceptical if it is real time but i have not found any sources confirming if this is real or not, all i can say for sure is that sony has said that everything shown in the conference is running on the ps4.

That footage was accomplished using near final hardware, whereas the Zelda HD footage was done with hardware that was a year away from being final.

So ... Basically what I am saying is ... We really still don't know what either console can do yet, which is what should be expected.

i dont wanna piss on everyones parade here but you people do realize the Zelda tech demo never ran in 1080p @ 60FPS.

http://www.eurogamer...-vs-e3-nintendo

the wii u ran that demo in 720p with no AA and @ 30FPS

That's what i thought too.

[routerbad]

I don't remember, but I thought the 720p idea (of a non-demanding demo on alpha hardware no less) was simply due to screenshots that they had been given, being set at a certain resolution.

 

Perhaps it was 720p or perhaps it was 1080p.  I don't know.

 

But WHAT IS HILARIOUS is that Sony specifically mentions PS4 GAMES will NOT render at 4k resolution, but it will upscale MOVIES and playback native 4K MOVIES.

 

NOT GAMES!!!!!!!!

 

YET, when sony sounds out press screen shots of their games, guess what resolution they are... 4K... LOL

 

Case in point - http://blogs-images..../KZ4_Chase1.jpg

 

All of the game images sent to Forbes, etc. from sony are in that fake resolution.

 

That image is in 4K resolution as defined by Wikipedia as Ultra High Definition Television at 3840 x 2160 resolution.

 

not only is sony oblivious to how obviously fake that makes their press screenshots, it seems no one is reporting it either.

 

Not only was their presentation filled with target renders and who knows what (I hope to Heaven the PS4 is capable of more than what they showed...), but then they go and ADD pixels to their screenshots so that the non-discriminating public can post them in forums saying "look at how much better these are..." and it isn't even representative of the actual tech demo or target render.

 

Classic Sony.

Maybe they were actually playing a video and it had been upscaled to 4K?

[Socalmuscle]

Maybe they were actually playing a video and it had been upscaled to 4K?

Lol

Sony sent digital images of the games to various media outlets. The pics were 4k resolution - a resolution that ps4 games cannot render at.

It doesn't matter if it was an upscaled video or not. The bottom line is that it is deceptive and not an honest indicator of how the games look. Not an actual ps4 screenshot.

This is actually a big problem and constitutes false advertising. I'm wondering if it needs it's own thread in general gaming...

I do wonder if the 2011 limited Zelda demo euro gamer screens were downsized and not indicators of the actual resolution...

Edited by Socalmuscle, 01 March 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[routerbad]

Lol

Sony sent digital images of the games to various media outlets. The pics were 4k resolution - a resolution that ps4 games cannot render at.

It doesn't matter if it was an upscaled video or not. The bottom line is that it is deceptive and not an honest indicator of how the games look. Not an actual ps4 screenshot.

This is actually a big problem and constitutes false advertising. I'm wondering if it needs it's own thread in general gaming...

I do wonder if the 2011 limited Zelda demo euro gamer screens were downsized and not indicators of the actual resolution...

Well, that's Sony, they have always done that.  I never expect that from Microsoft or Nintendo, never have, Sony I always take everything they claim with a grain (hell a shaker) of salt.  They lie and overpromise constantly.

[Socalmuscle]

Well, that's Sony, they have always done that. I never expect that from Microsoft or Nintendo, never have, Sony I always take everything they claim with a grain (hell a shaker) of salt. They lie and overpromise constantly.

True

That was what I meant by "classic Sony."

[Alex Atkin UK]

It is sad, as they really won me over with the PS4 reveal (obviously still keeping a close eye on what the retail games actually are like) and then completely destroyed that goodwill when I saw the 4K screenshots.

[Greg1040]

I'd say the gap must be big enough that developers ain't willing to make games for it and say the specs are weak and lack of 3rd party support. Even say the ps4 is at least twice as powerful as the wii u that's still a huge increase in performance.

How developers use the hardware is where it counts though.

[Dharmanator]

Say all you want about the tech demos. I doubt the 8gb of GDDR5 is a lie. That is obviously a huge advantage.

The fact Nintendo only put in a meager 2gb of ram kinda ticks me off. Ram that is theoretically slower than XBOX 360 and PS3 ram.

[3Dude]

Say all you want about the tech demos. I doubt the 8gb of GDDR5 is a lie. That is obviously a huge advantage.

The fact Nintendo only put in a meager 2gb of ram kinda ticks me off. Ram that is theoretically slower than XBOX 360 and PS3 ram.

I Guess thats why wii u is getting pc textures instead of the garbage 360/ps3 ones.

Because its ram is so slow.

[routerbad]

True

That was what I meant by "classic Sony."

Haha, I missed that in the quote.  It is classic Sony.

[Dharmanator]

I Guess thats why wii u is getting pc textures instead of the garbage 360/ps3 ones.

Because its ram is so slow.

The Wii U is not competing with pc graphics settings on low. Just because it its able to surpass current gen systems does not mean it is going to compete with this next gen.

Overall it really doesn't matter to me. My Wii U will be for 1st party games and the soon to be very rare exclusive.

As a community we just need to realize the Wii U is going to be a niche system and not embraced by major publishers. No big deal. It fills its need and no more.

[routerbad]

Say all you want about the tech demos. I doubt the 8gb of GDDR5 is a lie. That is obviously a huge advantage.

The fact Nintendo only put in a meager 2gb of ram kinda ticks me off. Ram that is theoretically slower than XBOX 360 and PS3 ram.

Yeah no.

 

The Wii U GPU has 32MB of edRAM embedded on the GPU substrate itself.  That is a ridiculous amount of embedded cache and is ridiculously fast.

 

Also, GDDR5 is DDR3 with a higher clock and super loose timings.  This is speed over latency.  DDR3 that is in the Wii U and nextbox, DDR3, has a lower clock, lower voltage, and tighter timings.  This is latency over raw speed. This makes it really great for linear, sequential reads/writes.  GDDR5 handles larger memory swaps better, like RAM mapping textures, but isn't as great for general purpose computing, because it takes much longer for each individual memory operation to complete.

I'd say the gap must be big enough that developers ain't willing to make games for it and say the specs are weak and lack of 3rd party support. Even say the ps4 is at least twice as powerful as the wii u that's still a huge increase in performance.

How developers use the hardware is where it counts though.

That isn't that great an increase in performance.  If I went and spent $1000 on a GPU that is twice as powerful as the one in my PC right now, it would amount to probably 10-15% in game performance increase.  And really that's just frames, I can still play the same games all on max settings over 60fps.  twice the raw power means very little when the entire system is soaked in code.  Also, many devs don't have devkits yet, they didn't start getting them out until december to many of the developers who applied, like Criterion.

Edited by routerbad, 02 March 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Socalmuscle]

1) The Wii U is not competing with pc graphics settings on low. Just because it its able to surpass current gen systems does not mean it is going to compete with this next gen.

Overall it really doesn't matter to me. 2) My Wii U will be for 1st party games and the soon to be very rare exclusive.

3) As a community we just need to realize the Wii U is going to be a niche system and not embraced by major publishers. No big deal. It fills its need and no more.

 

1) No it certainly is not competing with Pc textures on "low." It is competing with PC textures period. As Wii u games can be rendered in 1080P, that is what we expect.  And that is all there is to expect from PS4 as well. 

 

 

2) Then you are going to miss out on the gameplay superiority the gamepad enables in third party games.  But that's your own personal desire and your own perogative.  It is a free country after all.

 

3) As a community, we have been wanting a Nintendo console that has the potential to be our only console if need be.  and Nintendo has finally provided that.  At this point it is up to third parties to uphold their end of the bargain.  It isn't a niche system. It is a next gen system perfect for third party games as well as Nintendo's own excellent offerings. And while it is probably a good thing you don't speak for the "community," you are, as always, free to speak for yourself.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 02 March 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[MorbidGod]

The Wii U is not competing with pc graphics settings on low. Just because it its able to surpass current gen systems does not mean it is going to compete with this next gen.

Overall it really doesn't matter to me. My Wii U will be for 1st party games and the soon to be very rare exclusive.

As a community we just need to realize the Wii U is going to be a niche system and not embraced by major publishers. No big deal. It fills its need and no more.

I understand that. But I refuse to believe the Wii U vs PS4/720 is the same (tech wise) as the Wii vs PS3/360. That's always been my point.