200 replies to this topic

[PS3WIIIUfan]

But we still go on and talk! lets wait until the Ps4 comes out!

Edited by PS3WIIIUfan, 25 February 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[NintendoReport]

But we still go on and talk! lets wait until the Ps4 comes out!

that's what forums are for

[thunderspider]

I've asked in another topic, but i will repeat here, so it looks the difference became lower than we previously thought, that was about 4 to 6 times ,(that's already much lower than seventh gen when we compare others with the wii), and now it looks to be lower, with 3 to 4 times, but i think this is more theoretical than practical, so in the practical this can be even less difference, i mean when e compare games that is there to push the graphics of the console, by now the Wii U has just a few number of games made from the ground, and most of them are low budget games like Zombi U, i think we will have a good idea when games with graphical push, big budget and multiplatforms made for the new consoles. I think this can be interesting.

[3Dude]

I've asked in another topic, but i will repeat here, so it looks the difference became lower than we previously thought, that was about 4 to 6 times ,(that's already much lower than seventh gen when we compare others with the wii), and now it looks to be lower, with 3 to 4 times, but i think this is more theoretical than practical, so in the practical this can be even less difference, i mean when e compare games that is there to push the graphics of the console, by now the Wii U has just a few number of games made from the ground, and most of them are low budget games like Zombi U, i think we will have a good idea when games with graphical push, big budget and multiplatforms made for the new consoles. I think this can be interesting.

such multipliers are really becoming rather trivial.

10 years ago a difference in say 2x the polygons in a model would have been a huge difference. 10x mind blowing.

But now, the difference would be negligable, despite actually doing much, much more. Its the law of diminishing returns.

http://imgur.com/gallery/aFKEttJ

as demonstrated here, the jump from 60 triangles to 600 is pretty big, its gone from an abstract unidentifiable mess to something that represents a bust.

The jump from 600 to 6000 is MASSIVE, I dont even need an explanation, just look at it.

The jump from 6,000 to 60,000 is, well, negligable. It barely looks like an improvement compared to what came before, despite being nearly 10x more hardware demanding than all three former models COMBINED.

Diminishing returns.

[meitantei_conan]

So the WiiU's cpu is better than the PS4's cpu? :S

[PS3WIIIUfan]

Ps4 and Wii U for the win wooo

Edited by PS3WIIIUfan, 25 February 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[3Dude]

So the WiiU's cpu is better than the PS4's cpu? :S

Typically when talking about graphic power the subject is gpu, not the cpu.

But in regaurds to the cpu

Maybe core for core clock for clock.

Broadway actually benches surprisingly well against a bobcat core once its 'paired singles' simd is utilized. Jaguar is an improved bobcat core, 25% per core iirc? Espresso is MASSIVELY improved over broadway, so its considerably higher than a 25% improvement.

But the ps4 has 8 jaguar cores clocked slightly higher than wii u's 3 cores.

As far as code that can be optimized by concurrency, the ps4 has the win hands down. Its just too many cores.

But thats where Amdahls law steps in, not all code CAN benefit from concurrency, and youll NEVER be faster than that bit of code you need that cant be paralellized. Gaming code has a fair bit more of that than most applications.

So, for what its worth, in the event of code that cant be run on parallel threads and cores to finish faster... Espresso may have an advantadge somewhere.


...
.... Yay?

Edited by 3Dude, 25 February 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[Eskimo_sam]

how long is a piece of string??

[Happy Monk]

how long is a piece of string??

Quite.

[routerbad]

such multipliers are really becoming rather trivial.

10 years ago a difference in say 2x the polygons in a model would have been a huge difference. 10x mind blowing.

But now, the difference would be negligable, despite actually doing much, much more. Its the law of diminishing returns.

http://imgur.com/gallery/aFKEttJ

as demonstrated here, the jump from 60 triangles to 600 is pretty big, its gone from an abstract unidentifiable mess to something that represents a bust.

The jump from 600 to 6000 is MASSIVE, I dont even need an explanation, just look at it.

The jump from 6,000 to 60,000 is, well, negligable. It barely looks like an improvement compared to what came before, despite being nearly 10x more hardware demanding than all three former models COMBINED.

Diminishing returns.

Once you are at that level where you are seeing diminishing returns, wouldn't subdivision and bump mapping provide a more visual improvement in detail, with even fewer polygons?

Edited by routerbad, 26 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[NintendoReport]

Quite.

Depends upon the brand of tampons

[3Dude]

Once you are at that level where you are seeing diminishing returns, wouldn't subdivision and bump mapping provide a more visual improvement in detail, with even fewer polygons?

Polygons was just the example i used. It has to do with the human psyche, not computers. It applies to all facets of graphical rendering.

Although your examples specifically... Were covered by the original polygons example.

Tesselation (polygon subdivision) is simply breaking up a large polygon into smaller ones, and its visual effectiveness would peak the same as standard polygon meshes.

Bump mapping is a texture solution to SIMULATE the appearence of higher polygon counts by creating an optical illusion by changing individual pixel colors accoeding to pre set values (the bump map) and simulated light. Without needing to actually render all those polygons.

The fact that a normal mapped character model of 15,000 polygons can look near indiscernable to most from its cgi 1,000,000,000 poly model its based on is.... Actually relying on the concept of diminishing returns, not disproving it.

Edited by 3Dude, 26 February 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[routerbad]

Polygons was just the example i used. It has to do with the human psyche, not computers. It applies to all facets of graphical rendering.

That is a given. Diminishing returns in graphical representations of naturally occurring phenomena occurs when the rendered image is an acceptable facsimile of said natural phenomenon. I wasn't referring to that, though, I was referring to other rendering techniques being able to create either a similar facsimile with fewer resources or a more believable facsimile.

It doesn't really matter, I found what I was looking for. On top of that, I get your point, just asking an ancillary question because I was curious. At any rate, all of the next gen consoles will be able to provide very detailed, believable imagery, regardless of any real or perceived power differences between the them.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

This is ridiculous. I question every one of these threads and why you are on this forum. Obviously your not Nintendo FANS if your this fickle. If your playing video games for graphics, buy a PC and GTFO. At least wait until we see side by side comparisons of games out on the Wii U/PS4/720 before you complain about the Wii U being under powered. This is getting ridiculous. For all you people moaning about Nintendo being left in the dust or dying and less powerful wah wah wah, sell your Wii U and go join the PS4/720 forums please. Do us a friggan favor.

true dat, its just called whining about things that dont exist. Like comparisons between ps4 and wii u games in the graphics department lol.

[routerbad]

true dat, its just called whining about things that dont exist. Like comparisons between ps4 and wii u games in the graphics department lol.

Hey man, I'm in the camp that says it doesn't matter because games will look the same regardless.

[Robotic Sunshine Commander]

Hey man, I'm in the camp that says it doesn't matter because games will look the same regardless.

thats how i feel, good to know there are both sides to the story with these consoles. I was just mentioning the silly scrubs who are just overhyping what the ps4 or wii u are capable of lol.
the way i said it came out wrong lol

Edited by WomboKingKombo, 26 February 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Tacomywaffles]

VS

as much as i love the wii u, this is pretty telling.

[routerbad]

Polygons was just the example i used. It has to do with the human psyche, not computers. It applies to all facets of graphical rendering.

Although your examples specifically... Were covered by the original polygons example.

Tesselation (polygon subdivision) is simply breaking up a large polygon into smaller ones, and its visual effectiveness would peak the same as standard polygon meshes.

Bump mapping is a texture solution to SIMULATE the appearence of higher polygon counts by creating an optical illusion by changing individual pixel colors accoeding to pre set values (the bump map) and simulated light. Without needing to actually render all those polygons.

The fact that a normal mapped character model of 15,000 polygons can look near indiscernable to most from its cgi 1,000,000,000 poly model its based on is.... Actually relying on the concept of diminishing returns, not disproving it.

Makes more sense to me after the edit, thanks. This is pretty much what I was saying before, but said better. Using those techniques allows them to create convincing models without the need for additional polygons.

[Arkhandar]

VS

as much as i love the wii u, this is pretty telling.

That's not real time footage.

'nough said

[routerbad]

as much as i love the wii u, this is pretty telling.

It doesn't really tell much other than that a two year old Nintendo tech demo running on an old engine designed for different hardware stands up fairly well against an in engine gameplay target render running on a very high powered PC. The bird demo was more compelling visually. The Zelda tech demo was intended to show off the lighting capabilities.