49 replies to this topic

[dragomix]

Graphics all though mighty impressive when done well do not make the games fun, they just make them more attractive, I bet you if skyrim was released with last gen graphics it would have still sold in huge amounts.

That game is called Morrowind, you should try it...

[Penguin101]

I'm trying to write an article at the moment on how presentation (graphics and audio) are like a part of a gaming tri-force and you need all three parts to get a truly great game. But I'm struggling to think of a game that had great gameplay but ended up being a crap game due to the lack of the others elements (presentation and incentive). Any help appreciated and of course you'll be credited.

[dragomix]

There is gaming triforce, but that triforce composed of gameplay, story and presentation. You must nail 2 out of 3 to have great game.

 

For game that have exelent gameplay, but ended up being crapy, i dont know. Maybe Ghost Recon future soldier, that game have exelent gameplay, but lacs story and presentation. AC3 also have good gameplay, but story and presentation are not good.

[cannonshane]

That game is called Morrowind, you should try it...

Lol i have it, I meant if it was released now and not 10 years ago lol.

[3Dude]

Penguin101, on 07 Mar 2013 - 22:15, said:I'm trying to write an article at the moment on how presentation (graphics and audio) are like a part of a gaming tri-force and you need all three parts to get a truly great game. But I'm struggling to think of a game that had great gameplay but ended up being a crap game due to the lack of the others elements (presentation and incentive). Any help appreciated and of course you'll be credited.


red steel II.

Gameplay and core game mechanc wise, it is hands down the best motion control game ever made. Weaving in and out of your enemies, slicing them up, shooting out a kneecaps, finding and exploiting gaps in defense... The games mechanics are pure bliss.

But its obvious the game had a very modest bdget, and most off it was blown creating real, functional, motion controls.

The graphics managed a nice style, but the presentation...

The story, general presentation, and obvious lack of production values on other facets of the game left it out in the cold compared to big efforts like assassins creed, even though its core gameplay makes asscreed look like a joke. A bad joke.

[dragomix]

Lol i have it, I meant if it was released now and not 10 years ago lol.

I know. I was just saying that there is a good game, maybe even better than Skyrim, with last gen visuals. Game made by same company, and in same series. Graphics don't matter is the point.

[routerbad]

I know. I was just saying that there is a good game, maybe even better than Skyrim, with last gen visuals. Game made by same company, and in same series. Graphics don't matter is the point.

Right, when we start talking more about how a game looks rather than whether a game is fun there becomes a problem.  I personally found skyrim fun, but didn't spend nearly the amount of time on it some other people did.  They gave it great visuals but still delivered a fun experience.

[tboss]

starting this gen it wont. 

 

the this machine can do more talk ment something when more was actualy more. now graphics only prevews the amount of effort put into the game, which doesnt nessacarly means better gameplay.

 

i think this gen will last longer than the last do to it. and next gen be one for a final graphics push, but dimishing returns almost stops the generation process.

[Socalmuscle]

Graphics matter.  These are VIDEO games.

 

If they didn't matter, then we would all still have Atari 2600 to play on.

 

It's like saying sound doesn't matter.  Of course it does.

 

No one wants bleeps and bloops when they can have an epic soundtrack.

 

No one wants pixellated or compressed looking textures when they can have sharp detailed textures.

 

No one wants a low poly sphere that looks more like a rectangle when better graphics hardware makes it look like an actual sphere.

 

human beings are created with an intrinsic affinity for art, whether its engineering, the way something looks, sounds, feels, etc. 

 

Graphics are huge to everyone blessed to have their sight (thankful that I have mine. some are not so blessed).  They always were and they always will be.

 

 

 

 

But that has never been the argument.  What has been the issue is how much a disparity exists between one graphics reproduction system versus another and whether or not that disparity leads to more or less of an enjoyment of said product (video game)

 

Basically, it depends on the game.  But if you take the same game and one system produces only one aspect better than the other (ie: graphics), then it matters, but only slightly.  

 

It works in everything.  You can meet two equally nice and trustworthy girls.  Given the choice, all other things being equal, you will pick the prettier one.

same thing with a car, a house, a coffe cup, etc.

 

Just keeping it real.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 08 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[routerbad]

Graphics matter.  These are VIDEO games.

 

If they didn't matter, then we would all still have Atari 2600 to play on.

 

It's like saying sound doesn't matter.  Of course it does.

 

No one wants bleeps and bloops when they can have an epic soundtrack.

 

No one wants pixellated or compressed looking textures when they can have sharp detailed textures.

 

No one wants a low poly sphere that looks more like a rectangle when better graphics hardware makes it look like an actual sphere.

 

human beings are created with an intrinsic affinity for art, whether its engineering, the way something looks, sounds, feels, etc. 

 

Graphics are huge to everyone blessed to have their sight (thankful that I have mine. some are not so blessed).  They always were and they always will be.

 

 

 

 

But that has never been the argument.  What has been the issue is how much a disparity exists between one graphics reproduction system versus another and whether or not that disparity leads to more or less of an enjoyment of said product (video game)

 

Basically, it depends on the game.  But if you take the same game and one system produces only one aspect better than the other (ie: graphics), then it matters, but only slightly.  

 

It works in everything.  You can meet two equally nice and trustworthy girls.  Given the choice, all other things being equal, you will pick the prettier one.

same thing with a car, a house, a coffe cup, etc.

 

Just keeping it real.

Agreed.  Graphics do matter, but when two products can display the same or similar levels of graphical fidelity (both girls are just about as pretty but different) then going forward graphical representations can't be argued because they can both do the same things.  Then it comes down to little details, and that's an argument that made sense between two 16 bit systems, but not so much today.

 

The real differentiation comes down to whether one experience is subjectively more enjoyable than another, so it comes down to personal taste (I don't need to spell out how the girl analogy plays in here, do I?).

 

So they do matter, but only as far as there is a clear delineation between two representations.  When they start looking largely the same, it comes down more to experience and personal taste. (This is where art direction, story, gameplay mechanic, etc come into play)

[BrandedSwordsman]

[Death Stare Obama]

Creative art style>Realistic Graphics

 

thats just me

[NegaScott128]

Really, what it all comes down to is art style and how well that art style is realized.

[Dusean17]

Of course graphics matter, its just for better visuals but other things come along with better graphics so Graphics matter is a complete yes to me.

[Dukie]

Really, what it all comes down to is art style and how well that art style is realized.

This person speaks the truth. End of thread.

 

Edited by Dukie, 09 March 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Hunter]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the statement the guy makes in the video (or im betting there are many who didnt even watch the video). He said "graphics dont matter anymore", they did matter in the past, but these days they generally dont bring anything new to the game.

[Gamejunkie]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the statement the guy makes in the video (or im betting there are many who didnt even watch the video). He said "graphics dont matter anymore", they did matter in the past, but these days they generally dont bring anything new to the game.

Whether they bring anything new to the game or not they still matter. Of course things like game play, game design, presentation are more important but good graphics certainly enhance the game. Personally I'm not a big fan of those games released these days that have 8 bit or 16 bit style graphics like Fez, Retro City Rampage, Mutant Mudds, etc but that's just my taste and my opinion. If others like them then good for them. We have moved beyond those levels of graphics and they shouldn't be used anymore. You can still have games that emulate the game design, game play and presentation of games of past without the graphics from the past.

Edited by Gamejunkie, 10 March 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[GhostDrive]

Graphics are important, but no I don't think it's the main priority. Look at the Wii, the games aren't in HD but some of the games have some fantastic art design. I think what's more important isn't how OMG HIGH QUALITY the game is, but rather how the art is. Games like Metroid Prime 3, SMG/2, DKCR, and among some others are some great looking games despite the fact that they aren't in HD.

[routerbad]

Whether they bring anything new to the game or not they still matter. Of course things like game play, game design, presentation are more important but good graphics certainly enhance the game. Personally I'm not a big fan of those games released these days that have 8 bit or 16 bit style graphics like Fez, Retro City Rampage, Mutant Mudds, etc but that's just my taste and my opinion. If others like them then good for them. We have moved beyond those levels of graphics and they shouldn't be used anymore. You can still have games that emulate the game design, game play and presentation of games of past without the graphics from the past.

I think you missed the point of what he was saying.  They don't "matter" anymore because there isn't that much farther to take it (graphical representations).  Super realism wouldn't make a game better, more polygons doesn't equal better gameplay or even better graphics.  We are at a point where it is safer and more lucrative for developers and publishers to re-release the same games over and over with small graphical enhancements to sell more copies.  That isn't going to work for much longer.  Someone has to take a risk on something better gameplay mechanic wise, or the industry will stagnate.

 

Regardless of how any of us feel about a game's art direction, it's just that.  As long as the graphical representation of the gameworld works with the gameplay mechanic.  The level of graphics in games like "Retro" City Rampage, MM, etc, are specifically made to appeal to a certain group of gamers who don't believe that those graphics should be left in the past.  There are a lot of old school gamers who can appreciate a little 8-bit every now and then for either nostalgia or the simplicity of playing a game when graphics didn't seem to get in the way all the time.

[Gamejunkie]

I think you missed the point of what he was saying.  They don't "matter" anymore because there isn't that much farther to take it (graphical representations).  Super realism wouldn't make a game better, more polygons doesn't equal better gameplay or even better graphics.  We are at a point where it is safer and more lucrative for developers and publishers to re-release the same games over and over with small graphical enhancements to sell more copies.  That isn't going to work for much longer.  Someone has to take a risk on something better gameplay mechanic wise, or the industry will stagnate.
 
Regardless of how any of us feel about a game's art direction, it's just that.  As long as the graphical representation of the gameworld works with the gameplay mechanic.  The level of graphics in games like "Retro" City Rampage, MM, etc, are specifically made to appeal to a certain group of gamers who don't believe that those graphics should be left in the past.  There are a lot of old school gamers who can appreciate a little 8-bit every now and then for either nostalgia or the simplicity of playing a game when graphics didn't seem to get in the way all the time.

Fair enough but then the argument wasn't very clear. That said game consoles still haven't caught up with high end PC's when it comes to graphical fidelity. Graphics as a whole may not need further improvement but I still think that consoles need to catch up to the best PC's can do. Obviously improving graphics can cost money and increase development costs and there is a point where better graphics don't add to a game. Certainly improvement in game design and mechanics as well as quality story telling and clean presentation are all far more important bit it doesn't mean graphics can't be the best they can be either.