150 replies to this topic

[syks-1]

Syks, I don't know if you're a troll, serious or just plain delusional but X is an OPEN WORLD RPG. Killzone (a franchise I love), is a FPS which only have closed environments. When we see a Nintendo-made, closed-environment FPS/game ; that's the time we can actually debate about the topic. Open world games require much much more resources than FPSes. Also, Mario Kart looked pretty close in terms of graphics considering Mario is a racing game.

lol what was zombie u?

Syks, I don't know if you're a troll, serious or just plain delusional but X is an OPEN WORLD RPG. Killzone (a franchise I love), is a FPS which only have closed environments. When we see a Nintendo-made, closed-environment FPS/game ; that's the time we can actually debate about the topic. Open world games require much much more resources than FPSes. Also, Mario Kart looked pretty close in terms of graphics considering Mario is a racing game.

lol what was zombie u?

[ThePopiPenguin]

That was a 3rd party game. 

[syks-1]

lol fight all you want,ok imo this little xboxone game crushes mario kart as well,a better comparison for you?

 

First off, I'd like to say that that the fact that Mario Kart 8 is not a launch game changes nothing; both MK8 and Killzone are being released at the same general time. That's all that really counts.

 

Secondly: [sarcasm] you know, because off-screen footage is usually the best representation! [/sarcasm] Let's redo this...

 

One of the best Wii U had to offer at E3:

 

 

PS4 launch game:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmCfUYZiv0k

killzone still crushes it that way round lol

[Desert Punk]

Sadly this another thread turned to garbage by staunch defenders of Nintendo who don't have a fair bone in their body.

 

It's clear the wii u is powerful enough for the games of the type Nintendo produce and the wii u is a gpu-centric console so ideal and the performance of wii u games at E3 is entirely expected for a console that has a more modern gpu that is slightly more powerful than 360/PS3. Games written with its specification in mind will look better than 360/PS3.

 

Cartoon graphics do not push the hardware.Take the wii for example Mario Galaxy is visually very nice but the few fps games produced for wii look utterly terrible that are trying to show the real world.

 

The ps4 gpu is 1800gflops compared to 350gflops approx for wii u. Clearly in the huge increase of memory and gpu performance the ps4 will be able to produce graphics far beyond wii u in realism. Cartoon graphics may not be as dramatic a difference but it really depends on the game engine.

 

We don't know the details of Monolith's game but we do know they have a reputation for extracting full performance out of the wii. We don't know how much of the movie sequences shown were pre-rendered or using the game engine. For actual gameplay we don't know the complexity of the engine or have seen the full graphics up close. This really was the only game that could claim to be beyond current-gen but we really don't have the full details. It looks a great game though although that said Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't the huge hit people were expecting with far less than 1 million copies sold world wide and that was for a console that had sold 100 million.

 

There is a good unbiased article here about AMD Jaguar.

 

http://www.anandtech...4-kabini-temash

 

There is a good quote in the conclusion;

 

Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

 

Clearly though not that great a chip for any single threaded software on PC but in the PS4/Xbone environment its clear fully multi-threading will be utilised.

 

It's just so utterly mad and stupid to compare a console with 1GB of memory (for games), a slightly enhanced gpu and a weak cpu to ps4 which is hugely more powerful.

 

The argument of diminshing returns again is another false argument from those with huge bias. They are basically trying to say the wii u isn't as weak as you think and you don't need that extra power anyway so the wii u is fine.

 

The reality is the ps4 will have many games that the wii u simply isn't capable of, just like the PS3 and 360 had games the wii wasn't capable of.

 

I would love to say otherwise but the wii u is current gen performance overall. That doesn't mean it is not capable of superior graphics, it means as a package including its cpu performance it is in the same area and this is how wii u games perform overall.

 

However this is really a mute argument anyway because the wii u simply won't be getting the games that push the boundaries of console gaming, it's not getting those games because they won't be released on wii u because of many reasons.

 

The wii u is a fantastic console but its not the right choice at all if you want modern fps experiences and other major multiformat titles of the same quality as ps4 or xbone. It is not competitive in that area at all. Such games even if released on wii u may even struggle to match ps3 or 360 versions as has been the case for the majority of games previously and there is absolutely no reasons why it won't continue that way.

 

The upcoming wii u games look great and I'm looking forward to getting them but this whole argument that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or even xbone on a performance level is pure rubbish with no basis in reality. The PS3 and Xbox 360 have as much a right to claim they are competitive with PS4 and Xbone as wii u has. Let's face it most major titles are being cross developed on 360, PS3, PS4 and xbone anyway so there will be versions for all those consoles to buy where as the wii u won't be getting most of those titles.

 

If the wii u had sold well so it got versions of multi-format games no doubt we would have many months ahead analysing wii u versions and seeing how they compare but that's not happening anyway. There are only a few major projects still live and most of the other wii u titles that aren't coming from Nintendo or its first parties are looking fairly minor.

 

Clearly if you want high quality versions of major upcoming titles from major publishers the answer is not wii u. I knew this when I bought my wii u.

[ThePopiPenguin]

I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. I knew what I was getting into. The 3rd party games are a bonus and I will be supporting the 3rd parties anyway. I'm just saying that the Wii U can do comparable graphics to the PS4. No need for an argument. If I need the best graphics I have my PC and PS3 for that. You don't have to call me out or something like that because you don't know me. Don't just assume I'm a Nintendo fanboy dude. Last thing, you're arguing with me, a 13 year old here. Ughhh. 

 

Sadly this another thread turned to garbage by staunch defenders of Nintendo who don't have a fair bone in their body.

 

It's clear the wii u is powerful enough for the games of the type Nintendo produce and the wii u is a gpu-centric console so ideal and the performance of wii u games at E3 is entirely expected for a console that has a more modern gpu that is slightly more powerful than 360/PS3. Games written with its specification in mind will look better than 360/PS3.

 

Cartoon graphics do not push the hardware.Take the wii for example Mario Galaxy is visually very nice but the few fps games produced for wii look utterly terrible that are trying to show the real world.

 

The ps4 gpu is 1800gflops compared to 350gflops approx for wii u. Clearly in the huge increase of memory and gpu performance the ps4 will be able to produce graphics far beyond wii u in realism. Cartoon graphics may not be as dramatic a difference but it really depends on the game engine.

 

We don't know the details of Monolith's game but we do know they have a reputation for extracting full performance out of the wii. We don't know how much of the movie sequences shown were pre-rendered or using the game engine. For actual gameplay we don't know the complexity of the engine or have seen the full graphics up close. This really was the only game that could claim to be beyond current-gen but we really don't have the full details. It looks a great game though although that said Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't the huge hit people were expecting with far less than 1 million copies sold world wide and that was for a console that had sold 100 million.

 

There is a good unbiased article here about AMD Jaguar.

 

http://www.anandtech...4-kabini-temash

 

There is a good quote in the conclusion;

 

Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

 

Clearly though not that great a chip for any single threaded software on PC but in the PS4/Xbone environment its clear fully multi-threading will be utilised.

 

It's just so utterly mad and stupid to compare a console with 1GB of memory (for games), a slightly enhanced gpu and a weak cpu to ps4 which is hugely more powerful.

 

The argument of diminshing returns again is another false argument from those with huge bias. They are basically trying to say the wii u isn't as weak as you think and you don't need that extra power anyway so the wii u is fine.

 

The reality is the ps4 will have many games that the wii u simply isn't capable of, just like the PS3 and 360 had games the wii wasn't capable of.

 

I would love to say otherwise but the wii u is current gen performance overall. That doesn't mean it is not capable of superior graphics, it means as a package including its cpu performance it is in the same area and this is how wii u games perform overall.

 

However this is really a mute argument anyway because the wii u simply won't be getting the games that push the boundaries of console gaming, it's not getting those games because they won't be released on wii u because of many reasons.

 

The wii u is a fantastic console but its not the right choice at all if you want modern fps experiences and other major multiformat titles of the same quality as ps4 or xbone. It is not competitive in that area at all. Such games even if released on wii u may even struggle to match ps3 or 360 versions as has been the case for the majority of games previously and there is absolutely no reasons why it won't continue that way.

 

The upcoming wii u games look great and I'm looking forward to getting them but this whole argument that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or even xbone on a performance level is pure rubbish with no basis in reality. The PS3 and Xbox 360 have as much a right to claim they are competitive with PS4 and Xbone as wii u has. Let's face it most major titles are being cross developed on 360, PS3, PS4 and xbone anyway so there will be versions for all those consoles to buy where as the wii u won't be getting most of those titles.

 

If the wii u had sold well so it got versions of multi-format games no doubt we would have many months ahead analysing wii u versions and seeing how they compare but that's not happening anyway. There are only a few major projects still live and most of the other wii u titles that aren't coming from Nintendo or its first parties are looking fairly minor.

 

Clearly if you want high quality versions of major upcoming titles from major publishers the answer is not wii u. I knew this when I bought my wii u.

Edited by PopiPenguin, 16 June 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[syks-1]

Sadly this another thread turned to garbage by staunch defenders of Nintendo who don't have a fair bone in their body.

 

It's clear the wii u is powerful enough for the games of the type Nintendo produce and the wii u is a gpu-centric console so ideal and the performance of wii u games at E3 is entirely expected for a console that has a more modern gpu that is slightly more powerful than 360/PS3. Games written with its specification in mind will look better than 360/PS3.

 

Cartoon graphics do not push the hardware.Take the wii for example Mario Galaxy is visually very nice but the few fps games produced for wii look utterly terrible that are trying to show the real world.

 

The ps4 gpu is 1800gflops compared to 350gflops approx for wii u. Clearly in the huge increase of memory and gpu performance the ps4 will be able to produce graphics far beyond wii u in realism. Cartoon graphics may not be as dramatic a difference but it really depends on the game engine.

 

We don't know the details of Monolith's game but we do know they have a reputation for extracting full performance out of the wii. We don't know how much of the movie sequences shown were pre-rendered or using the game engine. For actual gameplay we don't know the complexity of the engine or have seen the full graphics up close. This really was the only game that could claim to be beyond current-gen but we really don't have the full details. It looks a great game though although that said Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't the huge hit people were expecting with far less than 1 million copies sold world wide and that was for a console that had sold 100 million.

 

There is a good unbiased article here about AMD Jaguar.

 

http://www.anandtech...4-kabini-temash

 

There is a good quote in the conclusion;

 

Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.

 

Clearly though not that great a chip for any single threaded software on PC but in the PS4/Xbone environment its clear fully multi-threading will be utilised.

 

It's just so utterly mad and stupid to compare a console with 1GB of memory (for games), a slightly enhanced gpu and a weak cpu to ps4 which is hugely more powerful.

 

The argument of diminshing returns again is another false argument from those with huge bias. They are basically trying to say the wii u isn't as weak as you think and you don't need that extra power anyway so the wii u is fine.

 

The reality is the ps4 will have many games that the wii u simply isn't capable of, just like the PS3 and 360 had games the wii wasn't capable of.

 

I would love to say otherwise but the wii u is current gen performance overall. That doesn't mean it is not capable of superior graphics, it means as a package including its cpu performance it is in the same area and this is how wii u games perform overall.

 

However this is really a mute argument anyway because the wii u simply won't be getting the games that push the boundaries of console gaming, it's not getting those games because they won't be released on wii u because of many reasons.

 

The wii u is a fantastic console but its not the right choice at all if you want modern fps experiences and other major multiformat titles of the same quality as ps4 or xbone. It is not competitive in that area at all. Such games even if released on wii u may even struggle to match ps3 or 360 versions as has been the case for the majority of games previously and there is absolutely no reasons why it won't continue that way.

 

The upcoming wii u games look great and I'm looking forward to getting them but this whole argument that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or even xbone on a performance level is pure rubbish with no basis in reality. The PS3 and Xbox 360 have as much a right to claim they are competitive with PS4 and Xbone as wii u has. Let's face it most major titles are being cross developed on 360, PS3, PS4 and xbone anyway so there will be versions for all those consoles to buy where as the wii u won't be getting most of those titles.

 

If the wii u had sold well so it got versions of multi-format games no doubt we would have many months ahead analysing wii u versions and seeing how they compare but that's not happening anyway. There are only a few major projects still live and most of the other wii u titles that aren't coming from Nintendo or its first parties are looking fairly minor.

 

Clearly if you want high quality versions of major upcoming titles from major publishers the answer is not wii u. I knew this when I bought my wii u.

Finally someone with some scence,thank you,im not saying wii u is exactly pants,it will have some fun games but YES it should of at least been as powerful as the xboxone and NO it dosnt come close to the graphics of the ps4/xboxone

[ThePopiPenguin]

Okay. The Wii U ISN'T as powerful as the other 2 and won't be able to produce much better graphics. That's fine. We have reached a point where we only need graphics at a certain level and gameplay emphasized higher. I acknowledge that the Wii U is weaker than the other 2 but that just mean games will be less ambitious and devs will have to be more creative. 

 

Before you say I'm a fanboy, I'm not. I play Sony, Nintendo and PC but I just won't be getting the PS4 this gen since I do not feel a need to with my PC. Hell, I support the Vita.

Edited by PopiPenguin, 16 June 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Mewbot]

Finally someone with some scence,thank you,im not saying wii u is exactly pants,it will have some fun games but YES it should of at least been as powerful as the xboxone and NO it dosnt come close to the graphics of the ps4/xboxone

 

 

Would you be happy paying $100-150 more for Xbone power?

Edited by R00bot, 16 June 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[NintendoReport]

I don't understand ignorance in this thread. I don't see anyone who is defending Nintendo saying the Wii U is more powerful then the PS4 and Xbox 1. What they are saying is that it'll be able to hold it's own in this gen much more then the Wii did last gen.

 

For god's sake, if you want the Wii U to be as powerful as the Xbox 1, then go freaking buy an Xbox 1. If you want the Wii U to be as powerful as the PS4, then go freaking buy a PS4.

 

Finally, stop trying to say the Wii U is less, equal, or barely above PS360. Clearly, just the fact alone that the Wii U uses modern architecture in the same way the PS4/Xbox 1 does regarding CPU and GPU says a lot about how hardware has transformed since the last generation to make itself much more efficient then ever before.

 

Now cut the crap.

[3Dude]

lol what was zombie u?

 

 

Zombi u was a 360 game, turned into a wii game, turned into a wii u game at the last minute.

 

lol fight all you want,ok imo this little xboxone game crushes mario kart as well,a better comparison for you?

 

killzone still crushes it that way round lol

 

You.... arent very good at this. This is a blocky game, with tiny environments, and the environmental shadows dont even cast onto the characters. Its clearly unfinished and I wouldnt be using it.

[ThePopiPenguin]

I don't understand ignorance in this thread. I don't see anyone who is defending Nintendo saying the Wii U is more powerful then the PS4 and Xbox 1. What they are saying is that it'll be able to hold it's own in this gen much more then the Wii did last gen.

 

For god's sake, if you want the Wii U to be as powerful as the Xbox 1, then go freaking buy an Xbox 1. If you want the Wii U to be as powerful as the PS4, then go freaking buy a PS4.

 

Finally, stop trying to say the Wii U is less, equal, or barely above PS360. Clearly, just the fact alone that the Wii U uses modern architecture in the same way the PS4/Xbox 1 does regarding CPU and GPU says a lot about how hardware has transformed since the last generation to make itself much more efficient then ever before.

 

Now cut the crap.

 

Zombi u was a 360 game, turned into a wii game, turned into a wii u game at the last minute.

 

 

You.... arent very good at this. This is a blocky game, with tiny environments, and the environmental shadows dont even cast onto the characters. Its clearly unfinished and I wouldnt be using it.

 

Thanks guys. You are just plain awesome. 3Dude, you're the man. Sorcerer12, good job too. I don't get why defending Nintendo is called fanboying.

Edited by PopiPenguin, 16 June 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[3Dude]

Sadly this another thread turned to garbage by staunch defenders of Nintendo who don't have a fair bone in their body.
 
It's clear the wii u is powerful enough for the games of the type Nintendo produce and the wii u is a gpu-centric console so ideal and the performance of wii u games at E3 is entirely expected for a console that has a more modern gpu that is slightly more powerful than 360/PS3. Games written with its specification in mind will look better than 360/PS3.


At least youve given up that much.



Cartoon graphics do not push the hardware.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard you say.



Take the wii for example Mario Galaxy is visually very nice but the few fps games produced for wii look utterly terrible that are trying to show the real world.

 

Corruption looked fantantistic. Production values are far more important to a games visuals than system power. Always have been always will be.


The ps4 gpu is 1800gflops compared to 350gflops approx for wii u. Clearly in the huge increase of memory and gpu performance the ps4 will be able to produce graphics far beyond wii u in realism. Cartoon graphics may not be as dramatic a difference but it really depends on the game engine.

First off Nobody knows the flop outpout of latte, and todays e3 showing with bayo2 and x has made many of them question what they previously thought, as its far outside the realm of what ps360 can produce. But even going with your loaded numbers, that puts the flop output at just 5x the wii u, smack in the ballpark of what weve been telling you this whole time. So, youve got nothing here.


We don't know the details of Monolith's game but we do know they have a reputation for extracting full performance out of the wii. We don't know how much of the movie sequences shown were pre-rendered or using the game engine. For actual gameplay we don't know the complexity of the engine or have seen the full graphics up close. This really was the only game that could claim to be beyond current-gen but we really don't have the full details. It looks a great game though although that said Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't the huge hit people were expecting with far less than 1 million copies sold world wide and that was for a console that had sold 100 million.


WOW, X is really shaking your narrative. There was nothing in X that was pre rendered.... You cant tell how to tell the difference can you? Sorry punk, thats all wii u there. And yeah, weve seen the graphics up close. You can see every vein and pore on the creatures in the world. Xenoblade chronicles was a smash hit bigger than Nintendo ever dreamed of... In NA, which is why we are getting X. Xenoblade chronicles was given a limited run, and its entire print was sold out in months, leaving people trying to buy it off of ebay for 200 bucks to this day.




There is a good unbiased article here about AMD Jaguar.
 
http://www.anandtech...4-kabini-temash
 
There is a good quote in the conclusion;
 
Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.


Uh, yeah, those are mobile/tablet processors dude. Not that impressive to be beating. The I5 in the computer I got for my wife for 350 destroys those. Including jaguar. Its not very impressive, unless you are using a tablet.


Clearly though not that great a chip for any single threaded software on PC but in the PS4/Xbone environment its clear fully multi-threading will be utilised.
 

Simd/multithreading are heavily used in tablet microarchitectures. Powerful single thread performance requires processors that are too large, too hot, and require too big of caches for mobile. Although, Since Im already improving your argument for you  I might as well continue. Jaguar had a performance breakthrough of around 10-15% over bobcat single thread performance by providing increased edram caches... they are 1/2 and 1/4 of the size of the ones in wii u's espresso.


It's just so utterly mad and stupid to compare a console with 1GB of memory (for games), a slightly enhanced gpu and a weak cpu to ps4 which is hugely more powerful.

It still hasnt hit home yet that ps4 and espresso are using tablet cpu's has it? And no. its not 'madness' to think the games of the lesser powered system arent hopelessly behind, its pretty standard practice to have this kind of a difference in power between systems. Its as ordinary as xbox vs ps2. The only one that wasnt ordinary, was the wii, which was was 20x+ behind the 360/ps3.

The argument of diminshing returns again is another false argument from those with huge bias. They are basically trying to say the wii u isn't as weak as you think and you don't need that extra power anyway so the wii u is fine.


Diminishing returns isnt an argument, and its hilarious to hear someone try and argue that its false, its a universal law.

"The law of diminishing returns (also law of diminishing marginal returns or law of increasing relative cost) states that in all productive processes, adding more of one factor of production, while holding all others constant ("ceteris paribus"), will at some point yield lower per-unit returns.[1] The law of diminishing returns does not imply that adding more of a factor will decrease the total production, a condition known as negative returns, though in fact this is common."

THe simple fact of the matter is, you can only increase graphics so much before people cant really tell the difference and you are only wasting money. Its already happening with systems as weak as the 3ds and vita. I posted a perfectly good example with crysis and crysis 3.


The reality is the ps4 will have many games that the wii u simply isn't capable of, just like the PS3 and 360 had games the wii wasn't capable of.

Not quite. The reality is the ps4 should be capable of many games the wii u is not because its around 5x more powerful. However, that requires people to pioneer and create new things with that hardware that cant be done anywhere else, and as is very obvious by what ps4 and xbone has shown off, they have no intention whatsoever to make anything besides the same cookie cutter fps's and cinematic action games with a fresh coat of paint. They are even degrading gameplay to even LESS interactive levels, if you look at ryse, the entire game consists of nothing but qte's... WHICH YOU CAN NOT LOSE because, and I quote 'we didnt want the gamer to feel frusterated'.


I would love to say otherwise but the wii u is current gen performance overall. That doesn't mean it is not capable of superior graphics, it means as a package including its cpu performance it is in the same area and this is how wii u games perform overall.


Oooh, so sorry. If only you knew what you were talking about. See, bayonetta 2's 60 frames per second gameplay demo took place in a massive city, around the same size as the one shown in the killzone 4 demo, except, instead of slowly flying way above the city where you dont have to worry about going into detail, its zooming in between the buildings of the city at break neck speed.

See, Bayonetta 1 and god of war cant do this, because they dont have the gpu OR CPU POWER. Thats why those games on the ps3560 are in tiny environments with non interactive back drops that would look really poopy if you were to get up close to them, because they only look good at a specified distance from the camera. And most importantly , a fixed camera. Ascensions final battle attempts to do something similar, but takes place on an ocean, with nothing in it, a tiny handful of enemies, and moving incredibly slowly. The difference in power required to do what ascenision did, and what bayonetta 2 is doing at twice the frame rate is not a minor thing. Its pretty huge, and not remotely close to possible  on a 'cpu weaker than ps360'.

THe reason they cant do what bayonetta 2 does, aside from not having the gpu power to render the geometry, is because they dont have the cpu power to cull the backside faces (Thats right! Culling is a cpu task), at the speed bayonetta 2 tears through the city, and at 60 frames per sedond, twice (often over twice) the frame rate of either bayonetta 1 or god of war 3/ascension.


However this is really a mute argument anyway because the wii u simply won't be getting the games that push the boundaries of console gaming, it's not getting those games because they won't be released on wii u because of many reasons.


So.... why is the wiiu the only system to show off said type game that pushes something that hasnt been done before yet? It IS, the only game that has been stated as being a COMPLETELY SEAMLESS OPEN WORLD GAME. No loading screens, not for towns, not for buildings, not for level changes, nowhere.



The wii u is a fantastic console but its not the right choice at all if you want modern fps experiences and other major multiformat titles of the same quality as ps4 or xbone. It is not competitive in that area at all. Such games even if released on wii u may even struggle to match ps3 or 360 versions as has been the case for the majority of games previously and there is absolutely no reasons why it won't continue that way.


Modern fps gaming hasnt changed since Xbox. Nothing new is happening guy. There has been 'fish ai' since mario 64.
And YEAH, its pretty fricking obvious those ports were garbage now. There is like, no denying that anymore.



The upcoming wii u games look great and I'm looking forward to getting them but this whole argument that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or even xbone on a performance level is pure rubbish with no basis in reality. The PS3 and Xbox 360 have as much a right to claim they are competitive with PS4 and Xbone as wii u has. Let's face it most major titles are being cross developed on 360, PS3, PS4 and xbone anyway so there will be versions for all those consoles to buy where as the wii u won't be getting most of those titles.


What is this, your first generation change? There are always cross gen games, and they almost always suck. And nintendo gets left out of third party titles all the time, even when it has the more powerful hardware. Just look at all the ps2/xbox games the cube got cut out of. Its not about system power, it never has been.

If the wii u had sold well so it got versions of multi-format games no doubt we would have many months ahead analysing wii u versions and seeing how they compare but that's not happening anyway. There are only a few major projects still live and most of the other wii u titles that aren't coming from Nintendo or its first parties are looking fairly minor.


Its been out 6 months guy. Since when have NIntendo platforms EVER been a place for major western third parties anyway? They avoid them like the plauge no matter how powerful they are.

[ThePopiPenguin]

Oooohhhhh. Syks got pwned. GJ 3dude.

[Grooseland]

^ Nope, that was Desert Punk although it is very easy to confuse them

[Desert Punk]

 

Sadly this another thread turned to garbage by staunch defenders of Nintendo who don't have a fair bone in their body.
 
It's clear the wii u is powerful enough for the games of the type Nintendo produce and the wii u is a gpu-centric console so ideal and the performance of wii u games at E3 is entirely expected for a console that has a more modern gpu that is slightly more powerful than 360/PS3. Games written with its specification in mind will look better than 360/PS3.


At least youve given up that much.



Cartoon graphics do not push the hardware.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard you say.



Take the wii for example Mario Galaxy is visually very nice but the few fps games produced for wii look utterly terrible that are trying to show the real world.

 

Corruption looked fantantistic. Production values are far more important to a games visuals than system power. Always have been always will be.


The ps4 gpu is 1800gflops compared to 350gflops approx for wii u. Clearly in the huge increase of memory and gpu performance the ps4 will be able to produce graphics far beyond wii u in realism. Cartoon graphics may not be as dramatic a difference but it really depends on the game engine.

First off Nobody knows the flop outpout of latte, and todays e3 showing with bayo2 and x has made many of them question what they previously thought, as its far outside the realm of what ps360 can produce. But even going with your loaded numbers, that puts the flop output at just 5x the wii u, smack in the ballpark of what weve been telling you this whole time. So, youve got nothing here.


We don't know the details of Monolith's game but we do know they have a reputation for extracting full performance out of the wii. We don't know how much of the movie sequences shown were pre-rendered or using the game engine. For actual gameplay we don't know the complexity of the engine or have seen the full graphics up close. This really was the only game that could claim to be beyond current-gen but we really don't have the full details. It looks a great game though although that said Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't the huge hit people were expecting with far less than 1 million copies sold world wide and that was for a console that had sold 100 million.


WOW, X is really shaking your narrative. There was nothing in X that was pre rendered.... You cant tell how to tell the difference can you? Sorry punk, thats all wii u there. And yeah, weve seen the graphics up close. You can see every vein and pore on the creatures in the world. Xenoblade chronicles was a smash hit bigger than Nintendo ever dreamed of... In NA, which is why we are getting X. Xenoblade chronicles was given a limited run, and its entire print was sold out in months, leaving people trying to buy it off of ebay for 200 bucks to this day.




There is a good unbiased article here about AMD Jaguar.
 
http://www.anandtech...4-kabini-temash
 
There is a good quote in the conclusion;
 
Jaguar is presently without competition. Intel’s current 32nm Saltwell Atom core is outdated, and nothing from ARM is quick enough. It’s no wonder that both Microsoft and Sony elected to use Jaguar as the base for their next-generation console SoCs, there simply isn’t a better option today. As Intel transitions to its 22nm Silvermont architecture however Jaguar will finally get some competition. For the next few months though, AMD will enjoy a position it hasn’t had in years: a CPU performance advantage.


Uh, yeah, those are mobile/tablet processors dude. Not that impressive to be beating. The I5 in the computer I got for my wife for 350 destroys those. Including jaguar. Its not very impressive, unless you are using a tablet.


Clearly though not that great a chip for any single threaded software on PC but in the PS4/Xbone environment its clear fully multi-threading will be utilised.
 

Simd/multithreading are heavily used in tablet microarchitectures. Powerful single thread performance requires processors that are too large, too hot, and require too big of caches for mobile. Although, Since Im already improving your argument for you  I might as well continue. Jaguar had a performance breakthrough of around 10-15% over bobcat single thread performance by providing increased edram caches... they are 1/2 and 1/4 of the size of the ones in wii u's espresso.


It's just so utterly mad and stupid to compare a console with 1GB of memory (for games), a slightly enhanced gpu and a weak cpu to ps4 which is hugely more powerful.

It still hasnt hit home yet that ps4 and espresso are using tablet cpu's has it? And no. its not 'madness' to think the games of the lesser powered system arent hopelessly behind, its pretty standard practice to have this kind of a difference in power between systems. Its as ordinary as xbox vs ps2. The only one that wasnt ordinary, was the wii, which was was 20x+ behind the 360/ps3.

The argument of diminshing returns again is another false argument from those with huge bias. They are basically trying to say the wii u isn't as weak as you think and you don't need that extra power anyway so the wii u is fine.


Diminishing returns isnt an argument, and its hilarious to hear someone try and argue that its false, its a universal law.

"The law of diminishing returns (also law of diminishing marginal returns or law of increasing relative cost) states that in all productive processes, adding more of one factor of production, while holding all others constant ("ceteris paribus"), will at some point yield lower per-unit returns.[1] The law of diminishing returns does not imply that adding more of a factor will decrease the total production, a condition known as negative returns, though in fact this is common."

THe simple fact of the matter is, you can only increase graphics so much before people cant really tell the difference and you are only wasting money. Its already happening with systems as weak as the 3ds and vita. I posted a perfectly good example with crysis and crysis 3.


The reality is the ps4 will have many games that the wii u simply isn't capable of, just like the PS3 and 360 had games the wii wasn't capable of.

Not quite. The reality is the ps4 should be capable of many games the wii u is not because its around 5x more powerful. However, that requires people to pioneer and create new things with that hardware that cant be done anywhere else, and as is very obvious by what ps4 and xbone has shown off, they have no intention whatsoever to make anything besides the same cookie cutter fps's and cinematic action games with a fresh coat of paint. They are even degrading gameplay to even LESS interactive levels, if you look at ryse, the entire game consists of nothing but qte's... WHICH YOU CAN NOT LOSE because, and I quote 'we didnt want the gamer to feel frusterated'.


I would love to say otherwise but the wii u is current gen performance overall. That doesn't mean it is not capable of superior graphics, it means as a package including its cpu performance it is in the same area and this is how wii u games perform overall.


Oooh, so sorry. If only you knew what you were talking about. See, bayonetta 2's 60 frames per second gameplay demo took place in a massive city, around the same size as the one shown in the killzone 4 demo, except, instead of slowly flying way above the city where you dont have to worry about going into detail, its zooming in between the buildings of the city at break neck speed.

See, Bayonetta 1 and god of war cant do this, because they dont have the gpu OR CPU POWER. Thats why those games on the ps3560 are in tiny environments with non interactive back drops that would look really poopy if you were to get up close to them, because they only look good at a specified distance from the camera. And most importantly , a fixed camera. Ascensions final battle attempts to do something similar, but takes place on an ocean, with nothing in it, a tiny handful of enemies, and moving incredibly slowly. The difference in power required to do what ascenision did, and what bayonetta 2 is doing at twice the frame rate is not a minor thing. Its pretty huge, and not remotely close to possible  on a 'cpu weaker than ps360'.

THe reason they cant do what bayonetta 2 does, aside from not having the gpu power to render the geometry, is because they dont have the cpu power to cull the backside faces (Thats right! Culling is a cpu task), at the speed bayonetta 2 tears through the city, and at 60 frames per sedond, twice (often over twice) the frame rate of either bayonetta 1 or god of war 3/ascension.


However this is really a mute argument anyway because the wii u simply won't be getting the games that push the boundaries of console gaming, it's not getting those games because they won't be released on wii u because of many reasons.


So.... why is the wiiu the only system to show off said type game that pushes something that hasnt been done before yet? It IS, the only game that has been stated as being a COMPLETELY SEAMLESS OPEN WORLD GAME. No loading screens, not for towns, not for buildings, not for level changes, nowhere.



The wii u is a fantastic console but its not the right choice at all if you want modern fps experiences and other major multiformat titles of the same quality as ps4 or xbone. It is not competitive in that area at all. Such games even if released on wii u may even struggle to match ps3 or 360 versions as has been the case for the majority of games previously and there is absolutely no reasons why it won't continue that way.


Modern fps gaming hasnt changed since Xbox. Nothing new is happening guy. There has been 'fish ai' since mario 64.
And YEAH, its pretty fricking obvious those ports were garbage now. There is like, no denying that anymore.



The upcoming wii u games look great and I'm looking forward to getting them but this whole argument that the wii u is competitive with ps4 or even xbone on a performance level is pure rubbish with no basis in reality. The PS3 and Xbox 360 have as much a right to claim they are competitive with PS4 and Xbone as wii u has. Let's face it most major titles are being cross developed on 360, PS3, PS4 and xbone anyway so there will be versions for all those consoles to buy where as the wii u won't be getting most of those titles.


What is this, your first generation change? There are always cross gen games, and they almost always suck. And nintendo gets left out of third party titles all the time, even when it has the more powerful hardware. Just look at all the ps2/xbox games the cube got cut out of. Its not about system power, it never has been.

If the wii u had sold well so it got versions of multi-format games no doubt we would have many months ahead analysing wii u versions and seeing how they compare but that's not happening anyway. There are only a few major projects still live and most of the other wii u titles that aren't coming from Nintendo or its first parties are looking fairly minor.


Its been out 6 months guy. Since when have NIntendo platforms EVER been a place for major western third parties anyway? They avoid them like the plauge no matter how powerful they are.

 

 

Look 3dude I don't know why you keep writing the complete crap that you keep writing. There is no supporting evidence to your view currently and I have always stated the gpu of the wii u is better nothing has changed. It's just your own warped bias.

 

Clearly you disagree with myself and also the vast majority of the internet which has assessed the wii u hardware and performance.

 

Even if we follow your warped viewpoint about the wii u hardware which is held by a tiny minority of people (nutjob nintendo fanboys) you have to accept that with the wii u getting very poor multiformat versions of games (mainly weaker than 360 and PS3) and a minimal amount of major multitformat conversions to wii u now so the whole argument of promoting the wii u on that level is harmful due to lack of support and weak conversions.

 

Clearly your view that cartoon graphics are as hard to generate as realistc graphics is another of your utterly moronic opinions that beggers belief.

 

The real world is complex with a huge variety of textures, lighting, physics, movement patterns and expected behaviour. Only a tiny subset of that applies to cartoon graphics/worlds and textures can be repeated easily.  Movement/motion of people has to be realistic as does gravity etc. Only you can try to debate something so obvious and take the opposite view.

 

The sad thing is some people here are stupid enough to believe your posts.

 

If you go on an xbox 360 or ps3 forum you often see people like you, staunchly defending their console against all others finding minor parts of a specification to inflate above their actual importance. Such people believe the 360 or PS3 is more powerful than wii u etc. There are comments from xbox fanboys that the xbox one is more powerful than ps4. Its all the same crap from typical demented fanboys.

 

As it stands today both ps3 and 360 have a selection of far more impressive titles than wii u currently and are likely to have better support in the future for major multiformat titles. The ps4 and xbone will show games simply not possible on the wii u and what titles are converted to wii u will be of the same performance level as 360 or ps3 (likely less performance slightly).

[3Dude]

Look 3dude I don't know why you keep writing the complete crap that you keep writing. There is no supporting evidence to your view currently and I have always stated the gpu of the wii u is better nothing has changed. It's just your own warped bias.
 
Clearly you disagree with myself and also the vast majority of the internet which has assessed the wii u hardware and performance.
 
Even if we follow your warped viewpoint about the wii u hardware which is held by a tiny minority of people (nutjob nintendo fanboys) you have to accept that with the wii u getting very poor multiformat versions of games (mainly weaker than 360 and PS3) and a minimal amount of major multitformat conversions to wii u now so the whole argument of promoting the wii u on that level is harmful due to lack of support and weak conversions.
 
Clearly your view that cartoon graphics are as hard to generate as realistc graphics is another of your utterly moronic opinions that beggers belief.
 
The real world is complex with a huge variety of textures, lighting, physics, movement patterns and expected behaviour. Only a tiny subset of that applies to cartoon graphics/worlds and textures can be repeated easily.  Movement/motion of people has to be realistic as does gravity etc. Only you can try to debate something so obvious and take the opposite view.
 
The sad thing is some people here are stupid enough to believe your posts.
 
If you go on an xbox 360 or ps3 forum you often see people like you, staunchly defending their console against all others finding minor parts of a specification to inflate above their actual importance. Such people believe the 360 or PS3 is more powerful than wii u etc. There are comments from xbox fanboys that the xbox one is more powerful than ps4. Its all the same crap from typical demented fanboys.
 
As it stands today both ps3 and 360 have a selection of far more impressive titles than wii u currently and are likely to have better support in the future for major multiformat titles. The ps4 and xbone will show games simply not possible on the wii u and what titles are converted to wii u will be of the same performance level as 360 or ps3 (likely less performance slightly).

Not a single point countered. A new record.

so... Why doesnt klack look remotely close to say... Pixars the incredibles, if cartoon looks are so easy? Youve just fallen headfirst into one of the biggest amatuer pitfalls in visual design.

Also, you need to knock off the ad hominem bs, and start providing actual arguments.

Ive already done an entire analysis, complete with comparisons about how far past the ps360 wii u has shown itself to be. Why dont you try and prove something there, instead of constantly spewing unsubstantiated propaganda here.

[Zinix]

Desert Punk always comes back for his weekly beatings. 

 

I love it. 

[Grooseland]

Isn't the Wii U so custom that nobody knows exactly what is capable of?

[3Dude]

Isn't the Wii U so custom that nobody knows exactly what is capable of?

Isn't the Wii U so custom that nobody knows exactly what is capable of?

Yes. Even after getting free chip die picks from chipworks, its so far removed from any standard hardware no one can make heads or tails of it.

Which is why bayo 2 and improved x were such big surprises.

[Grooseland]

So those threads at Neogaf about the CPU and GPU based on those Chipworks photos... Are they just theories or is someone getting close to the performance (of Wii U)?