71 replies to this topic

[GreenPenInk]

 Yeah. I play with lights on my bedroom at times and other times I play during the day. Until those things have zero effect on the Wiimote it's not flawless. You seem to be a fan of very strict gaming sessions. Congratulations. It's annoying to play SS if you wanna lay down on a couch/lying in bed because the angles at which you perform motions are awkward.  It doesn't even have to be that extreme, I game in my bedroom and I tend to sit on my computer chair which spins a bit and again that leads to you performing actions occasionally at odd angles which you have to reset.  I don't think that the game is difficult, that's not my problem with motion controls, it's that at a certain point the fun factor wears off and you look forward to fights with motion control but everything else becomes a chore rather than fun. By reset I don't mean recalibration I mean you have to sit like this douche for everything that you do.  It's fun for combat (I include bug catching in combat, actions Link directly takes), not for everything else (manipulating objects, controlling the beetle, flying the birds etc.)

 

 

 

 Yeah... so there's nothing to do with the birds. I wish they were more integral to the game or at the very least wish there was a racing minigame.

 

 That's fetch quests (which should be limited) and minigames (which are great).

 

 I'm not directly comparing SS to TP alone.  I don't hope that Zelda U is a direct sequel to TP.  There are a lot of things SS did well, but it also took a step back in some regards.

 

 Whether or not motion control was a success in SS I would bet against it being included in Zelda U strictly because they have mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game.

Edited by GreenPenInk, 27 July 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[3Dude]

Yeah. I play with lights on my bedroom at times and other times I play during the day. Until those things have zero effect on the Wiimote it's not flawless. You seem to be a fan of very strict gaming sessions. Congratulations. It's annoying to play SS if you wanna lay down on a couch/lying in bed because the angles at which you perform motions are awkward.  It doesn't even have to be that extreme, I game in my bedroom and I tend to sit on my computer chair which spins a bit and again that leads to you performing actions occasionally at odd angles which you have to reset.  I don't think that the game is difficult, that's not my problem with motion controls, it's that at a certain point the fun factor wears off and you look forward to fights with motion control but everything else becomes a chore rather than fun. By reset I don't mean recalibration I mean you have to sit like this douche for everything that you do.  It's fun for combat (I include bug catching in combat, actions Link directly takes), not for everything else (manipulating objects, controlling the beetle, flying the birds etc.)
 

 
 
 Yeah... so there's nothing to do with the birds. I wish they were more integral to the game or at the very least wish there was a racing minigame.
 
 That's fetch quests (which should be limited) and minigames (which are great).
 
 I'm not directly comparing SS to TP alone.  I don't hope that Zelda U is a direct sequel to TP.  There are a lot of things SS did well, but it also took a step back in some regards.
 
 Whether or not motion control was a success in SS I would bet against it being included in Zelda U strictly because they have mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game.

By your definition the entirety of tp was a fetch quest. Well, actually by anybodies definition the entirety of tp was a horrible fetch quest.

So were every single one of oot's sidequests. Whats with the double standard?

I typically play laying down at all manner of odd angles with one hand in my lap and the other dangling somewhere. The whole 'stiff arm waving' myth is from people who never figured out the way the controls worked. Probably because there are only a handful of games (2 real ones) That actually used motion controls.

Your argument about the bird is another double standard other games somehow dont have to meet.

Beetle/bird control frusterations are 100% garuanteed caused by sensor bar dot problems. I use the beetle all the time, because its several times faster than picking something up myself, or to quickly catch a item that an enemy popped over a cliff or lava. Those controls are also very precise when working properly.

Uh, no, they havent mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game. They HAVE mentioned they want it to be motion controls again.

More specifically, Aunoma called going back to buttons going backwards.

"I honestly think we cannot go back to button controls now," Aonuma said during an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine, "so I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."

This was, AFTER the e3 with the zelda hd tech demo btw.

[YoshiGamer9]

Maybe you don't play them that long, but that doesn't mean other people don't play them that long either.

 

Also doesn't make my point any less valid.

 

It doesn't make mine that way either, they probably spend like six months on those titles until they finish them any ways.

[Zok]

Wow, this really sounds awesome. I'm pretty sure a Zelda full of sidequests and Skyrim-like collectibles is every Zelda veteran's dream.

[Keviin]

The game is using the E3 2011 Tech Demo graphics. The Tech Demo was actually footage from a pre-Alpha version.
 

 

Confirmed fake because Aonouma said the artstyle will be between realistic and cartoony. The tech demo was pretty realistic. Also they wouldn't do voiced characters. That would be the lamest thing ever for Zelda and they sure as hell know it is. However, the parallel dungeon concept and open-world aspects should DEFINITELY be in there.

[3Dude]

The game is using the E3 2011 Tech Demo graphics. The Tech Demo was actually footage from a pre-Alpha version.
 
 
Confirmed fake because Aonouma said the artstyle will be between realistic and cartoony. The tech demo was pretty realistic. Also they wouldn't do voiced characters. That would be the lamest thing ever for Zelda and they sure as hell know it is. However, the parallel dungeon concept and open-world aspects should DEFINITELY be in there.

Youll be pleased to know this fake used some real information to attempt an air of credibility. This subject, happens to be exactly that.

"EG: As part of opening up Zelda games for a new generation, are you looking at any other games for inspiration? Dark Souls, perhaps, or Skyrim?

Aonuma: Skyrim! [For some reason mention of Bethesda's fantasy epic tickles him, and he laughs.] Obviously I play other games, and I'm curious what Zelda fans like about the Skyrim experience. Maybe there are some Zelda fans who are looking for something similar out of a Zelda game.

But I don't look at the technology that made these games possible. I don't look at what's happening in the game, but how it made me feel, what in the game moved me, and how I can bring out those same emotions in players who play my games. My intent isn't to copy them, but those are the things that stay with you as a player.

It's not what you see but how the game makes you feel that makes you feel closer to the experience. It's more about the feeling and expression of emotions in the game, and I do take that into consideration when working on my own projects."

[Keviin]

Youll be pleased to know this fake used some real information to attempt an air of credibility. This subject, happens to be exactly that.

"EG: As part of opening up Zelda games for a new generation, are you looking at any other games for inspiration? Dark Souls, perhaps, or Skyrim?

Aonuma: Skyrim! [For some reason mention of Bethesda's fantasy epic tickles him, and he laughs.] Obviously I play other games, and I'm curious what Zelda fans like about the Skyrim experience. Maybe there are some Zelda fans who are looking for something similar out of a Zelda game.

But I don't look at the technology that made these games possible. I don't look at what's happening in the game, but how it made me feel, what in the game moved me, and how I can bring out those same emotions in players who play my games. My intent isn't to copy them, but those are the things that stay with you as a player.

It's not what you see but how the game makes you feel that makes you feel closer to the experience. It's more about the feeling and expression of emotions in the game, and I do take that into consideration when working on my own projects."

 

Yeah I noticed that. This rumor just screams fake, even though I really want parts of it to be true. Also, I don't think they've had another team working on it since 2010. That's way too early.

 

What's credible though is, that a lot of E3 2011 demos turned into real games.

[TheUltimateWaddleDee]

Yeah I noticed that. This rumor just screams fake, even though I really want parts of it to be true. Also, I don't think they've had another team working on it since 2010. That's way too early.

What's credible though is, that a lot of E3 2011 demos turned into real games.

The demos that became games were all actual games; the level of interactivity in the Bird and Zelda demos were limited to changing the camera angle and time of day, as well as Off-TV Play. The only playable demo that didn't get released as of yet is Ghost Recon Online (the reason I was interested in the Wii U in the first place). Could something come from those? Perhaps, but Aonouma pointed out that this exact scenario happened at Spaceworld, so don't assume anything.

[Hank Hill]

It doesn't make mine that way either, they probably spend like six months on those titles until they finish them any ways.

 

Actually, it does rather make yours invalid. You expressed outrage that Nintendo "never makes anything besides sequels" but as soon as I provide proof against that, you dismiss it because they're not AAA+ titles.

[GreenPenInk]

By your definition the entirety of tp was a fetch quest. Well, actually by anybodies definition the entirety of tp was a horrible fetch quest.

So were every single one of oot's sidequests. Whats with the double standard?

I typically play laying down at all manner of odd angles with one hand in my lap and the other dangling somewhere. The whole 'stiff arm waving' myth is from people who never figured out the way the controls worked. Probably because there are only a handful of games (2 real ones) That actually used motion controls.

Your argument about the bird is another double standard other games somehow dont have to meet.

Beetle/bird control frusterations are 100% garuanteed caused by sensor bar dot problems. I use the beetle all the time, because its several times faster than picking something up myself, or to quickly catch a item that an enemy popped over a cliff or lava. Those controls are also very precise when working properly.

Uh, no, they havent mentioned it will be a flagship gamepad game. They HAVE mentioned they want it to be motion controls again.

More specifically, Aunoma called going back to buttons going backwards.

"I honestly think we cannot go back to button controls now," Aonuma said during an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine, "so I think that these controls will be used in future Zelda titles, too."

This was, AFTER the e3 with the zelda hd tech demo btw.

 

 I don't feel like it's a double standard as much as a higher standard.

 

 Ok. You utilize motion controls perfectly.  Everyone else are baddies that can't figure out how to flick their wrists.  But, it's a large enough contingent of rainbowty players that it's worth listening to.

 

 In previous games with mounts they're heavily utilized.  You spend a lot of time on them and can typically perform some actions as far as attacking.  I feel like that was probably excluded from SS because they felt as it was currently designed it would probably be a hassle for a lot of players rather than being fun.  That's just a hunch though, nothing to back it up with.

 

 I ca't find it but the quote I remember was from Iwata I think saying that that Zelda U would take full advantage of the gamepad and it would be a game to show off all the potential of the gamepad. They didn't say flagship that's all me. All I can find is stuff like this:

 

 http://www.wired.com...-zelda-wii-u/2/

 

http://ca.ign.com/ar...lks-zelda-wii-u

 

http://www.officialn...da-wii-u-ideas/

 

 I don't see how they wouldn't offer off-screen play and to do that you would need to bypass motion controls as they were in SS pretty much entirely if you were gaming strictly on the gamepad.

 

 The addition of motion control wasn't my biggest issue with SS anyways. I was excited about it and liked the combat implementation like I've said. I mostly felt that SS wasn't what I expected from the franchise in 2011 when they had worked on the game for 5 years. There was only a couple years between OOT, MM and WW and I think with TP I was just so glad to get back to an adult Link and some features like improved mounted combat felt like the right direction.  Some of the wolf segments were definitely tedious, but being able to be a wolf is kind of badass at the end of the day.  I seem to be coming off as a major hater of SS so I'll stress again I don't think it's a bad game.  I've only played through it once. Eventually I'll replay it and note what exactly turned me on/off about it.

 

 Edit:

 

 It's probably this rumour is something I read too much into when I first got the Wii U as it seems to hit every point I felt like I remembered as far as Zelda U:

 

 http://wiiudaily.com...me-coming-2014/

Edited by GreenPenInk, 28 July 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[3Dude]

GreenPenInk, on 28 Jul 2013 - 7:50 PM, said:I don't feel like it's a double standard as much as a higher standard.

Thats the very definition of a double standard.
 
 Ok. You utilize motion controls perfectly.  Everyone else are baddies that can't figure out how to flick their wrists.  But, it's a large enough contingent of rainbowty players that it's worth listening to.

Well, no, there really arent. They are just the loudest and the most obnoxious whiners. Nintendo has sold more motion only games than the entirety of call of duty on every platform this gen. Only the 'hardlycore' complain about having to start over learning a new skill set and obnoxiously refuse to do it, screaming all over the internet in the process. If nintendo had listened to them back in the 90's, when 2d godtier players realized 3d analog sticks required a different skill set, and they were noobs on the same level as everyone else just starting out... wed still be using dpads for all our games.
 
 In previous games with mounts they're heavily utilized.  You spend a lot of time on them and can typically perform some actions as far as attacking.  I feel like that was probably excluded from SS because they felt as it was currently designed it would probably be a hassle for a lot of players rather than being fun.  That's just a hunch though, nothing to back it up with.

Heavily utilized as a means of transportation to more quickly cross empty spaces.

And you must not have gotten very far in ss, because the bird has combat, a target practice mini game, and can be used in a boss fight.
 

 I ca't find it but the quote I remember was from Iwata I think saying that that Zelda U would take full advantage of the gamepad and it would be a game to show off all the potential of the gamepad. They didn't say flagship that's all me. All I can find is stuff like this:

I think you are remembering iwatas statement about needing to find a game for the gamepad like wii sports was for the wiimote, a flagship game for the gamepad.
 
 http://www.wired.com...-zelda-wii-u/2/
 
http://ca.ign.com/ar...lks-zelda-wii-u
 
http://www.officialn...da-wii-u-ideas/

hmmm... Well, Wind waker hd plays EXACTLY like the gamecube game. So, in game combat mechanics are taken straight from windwaker, nothing new here to send to wii u team.

Touch screen inventory taken from oot3d, nothing new to send back to wii u team.

Tingle tuner has been changed and is being used to offer all manner of zany gamepad uses in place of gba hook up..... Yeah, thats new and would be sent to wii u team. And then there are anoumas comments about wanting local multiplayer, but insisting on having only one playable link, and looking at nsmbu, and wwhd's tingle tuner, and a pretty clear possible picture seems to be forming on what they may want to do with the gamepad.
 
 I don't see how they wouldn't offer off-screen play and to do that you would need to bypass motion controls as they were in SS pretty much entirely if you were gaming strictly on the gamepad.

Pikmin 3 uses off screen play with wiimote and nunchuck. The gamepad has a built in sensor bar on the top and comes with a stand for the gamepad.
 
 The addition of motion control wasn't my biggest issue with SS anyways. I was excited about it and liked the combat implementation like I've said. I mostly felt that SS wasn't what I expected from the franchise in 2011 when they had worked on the game for 5 years.

I see a self fulfilling prophecy.

There was only a couple years between OOT, MM and WW and I think with TP I was just so glad to get back to an adult Link-

getting clearer

and some features like improved mounted combat felt like the right direction.

er, waggle like a moron with no skill whatsoever and nothing you actually did had any bearing whatsoever on what link did? shake to win.

 Some of the wolf segments were definitely tedious.

All of the wolf segments were tedious. Every single one had you do the same exact thing, it was a long boring fetch quest, every, single, time.

but being able to be a wolf is kind of badass at the end of the day.  


The concept sure. But Not in tp. You have waggle moves with no real strategy, and hold b and release to auto win. And then when you could control it the process of changing was unnecessarily long, which increased the irritation when you had to change back and forth.

I seem to be coming off as a major hater of SS so I'll stress again I don't think it's a bad game.  I've only played through it once. Eventually I'll replay it and note what exactly turned me on/off about it.

It seems to me it wasnt the game, but what you built up in your head about the game before you played it. I went on a complete media blackout on ss. It does wonders.

Ive tried to play through tp multiple times but never finished a single replay through. its just too tedious and irritating in too many parts, with no real rewards for doing anything outside just going from hand holded spot on the map to the next.
 
 Edit:
 
 It's probably this rumour is something I read too much into when I first got the Wii U as it seems to hit every point I felt like I remembered as far as Zelda U:
 
 http://wiiudaily.com...me-coming-2014/

Ah.
[/quote]


One of the biggest problems with the loz series is that it encapsulates a wide range of values enjoyed/prioritized on different levels by different people. As the series got bigger and bigger its become completely impossible to focus on all those aspects equally within the span of one title. As such different titles focus on different aspects of Zelda, and the individual fans prioritize them accordingly.

[GreenPenInk]

Yeah, but double standard makes it seem like I have an agenda.

 

 I have no problem in raising the skill cap.  I just would prefer if they spent their time adding additional encounters where you may even need to perform even more intricate actions rather than making everything e.g. key twisting motion controlled and saying 'hey, look it was worth it.'

 

 Epona > Bird.  Mount and Blade 2 is the game I'm looking forward to more than any other probably because mounted combat is horsing amazing.  I wish they'd made the target practice earlier/thrown it in your face that it was available.

 

 Didn't know the gamepad had a sensor bar, that settles that, though I'd never play with the Wiimote/Nunchuk unless it was on my TV.

 

 I just didn't find TP tedious. I think I even thought it was too short. Heh. But it's been awhile  I guess I should replay that too and see how it fares after all these years. I could see some of my issues with SS being that I considered it something I wanted to get out of the way before I got into the Wii U library of games.  I should jump back in with a more chill explorative mood.

 

 I can agree with that. I'm starved for some actual Zelda U news and I'm hoping it's things I want to hear.

Edited by GreenPenInk, 28 July 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Envy]

Sounds great, but with the general trend that Nintendo seems to be taking their games (that is very linear) it comes off as very hard to believe.

[3Dude]

Yeah, but double standard makes it seem like I have an agenda.
 
 I have no problem in raising the skill cap.  I just would prefer if they spent their time adding additional encounters where you may even need to perform even more intricate actions rather than making everything e.g. key twisting motion controlled and saying 'hey, look it was worth it.'
 
 Epona > Bird.  Mount and Blade 2 is the game I'm looking forward to more than any other probably because mounted combat is horsing amazing.  I wish they'd made the target practice earlier/thrown it in your face that it was available.
 
 Didn't know the gamepad had a sensor bar, that settles that, though I'd never play with the Wiimote/Nunchuk unless it was on my TV.
 
 I just didn't find TP tedious. I think I even thought it was too short. Heh. But it's been awhile  I guess I should replay that too and see how it fares after all these years. I could see some of my issues with SS being that I considered it something I wanted to get out of the way before I got into the Wii U library of games.  I should jump back in with a more chill explorative mood.
 
 I can agree with that. I'm starved for some actual Zelda U news and I'm hoping it's things I want to hear.

I really dont see how you had so much trouble with the keys. It was infinitely faster and more precise than an analog stick. Unless you are having sensor bar problems. All three of your control complaints will begin cropping up rather severly when deprived of the sensor bar.

The bird and the beetle will be annoyingly incapable of flying straight without the sensor bar in the camera, forcing this vexing constant left right pattern to go anywhere, and the keys wont respond consistantly to anything, particularly subleties.

The sword combat doesnt really rely on the sensor bar at all in comparison.

I like horse riding. I just find it rather bland and pointless in Zelda. As soon as you have the ability to teleport epona becomes rather worthless.

Aggro>>>>>>>>> Anything ever done with epona in every single zelda title combined.

When you had to use him to ride alongside the flying collossi and stand on him and leap onto the beastie. Epic. Or running full speed under the hooves of the second collosi taking shots at the underhoves. Yes.

Eponas... just a ride, with a dodgy jump context sense mechanic. Even in tp where you engage in combat, epona doesnt really add anything to the situation by being there. Its just, you are on a horse now.


The bird, saw similar use in a boss fight to Aggro. How you had to fly overhead and skydive onto the giant mob to finish the fight.

[Lightning_Ninja]

Yeah, these rumors scream fake.  Particularly the part where Aonuma references the water temple like it's a good thing.  He himself didn't like what happened with it.  Though there are some good ideas in here.  5 dungeons in any order (without the being forced to run between them) actually sounds great.

 

 

 

One of the biggest problems with the loz series is that it encapsulates a wide range of values enjoyed/prioritized on different levels by different people. As the series got bigger and bigger its become completely impossible to focus on all those aspects equally within the span of one title. As such different titles focus on different aspects of Zelda, and the individual fans prioritize them accordingly.

 

Nothing divides a gaming community quite like debating which Zelda is best, lol.

[GreenPenInk]

 Maybe my bar is messed up. But the setup instructions were fairly simple. It wasn't the keys by themselves that got to me.  I found motion control start to get tedious like you found the wolf mode in TP.  I play hockey so it's not like my wrists are frail but I'd play the game in short durations because it was definitely taxing on them in a way that's specific to playing the Wii.  That's why I'd prefer for motion control to be more targetted in it's implementation in the game.

 

 I forgive them for not having a more indepth Epona for OoT because it was their first foray into 3D. I am still hoping for a bigger role in Zelda U.

 

 Epona making an appearance in OoT/having ability to shoot bow off her ---> implementation in TP ---> full fledged combat as close to or better than M&B.  

 

 Like this: 

 

  /drool

[3Dude]

Maybe my bar is messed up. But the setup instructions were fairly simple. It wasn't the keys by themselves that got to me.  I found motion control start to get tedious like you found the wolf mode in TP.  I play hockey so it's not like my wrists are frail but I'd play the game in short durations because it was definitely taxing on them in a way that's specific to playing the Wii.  That's why I'd prefer for motion control to be more targetted in it's implementation in the game.
 
 I forgive them for not having a more indepth Epona for OoT because it was their first foray into 3D. I am still hoping for a bigger role in Zelda U.
 
 Epona making an appearance in OoT/having ability to shoot bow off her ---> implementation in TP ---> full fledged combat as close to or better than M&B.  
 
 Like this: 
 
  /drool

That... That would be the most horrible thing to ever put in a zelda game. There is absolutely no point to having a horse, and once the fighting starts its just a giant clusterbuck of huddled crowds attack spamming.

They might as well be sitting on roller chairs hacking at each other the way the combat instantly degrades to spamfesting.

Those horses are nothing special. They are a stat bump, a prop, item, object, not a character, and certainly not a partner.

Even I see Epona as being more than that.

Thats not how Nintendo rolls.

What can a horse do that you cant do by yourself? What can you do with a horse you could never do by yourself? How do you apply it to an interactive experience in a meaningful way?

Team Ico answers:

[GAMER1984]

i have high hopes for LOZ built ground up for Wii U... nothing less than GOTY will satisfy me. if they bring that zelda 2011 tech demo upgraded looking even better, plus everything they usually put in zelda series im not worried. But to tell you ive always thought the first grond up zelda would be the Wii U's Gears of War (the title that confirms to each and every doubter no matter how much against Wii U's tech ability) the title that standsout and proves you can get graphics on same level as ps4 and xb1... YES thats what i just said. it all comes down to budget and if rumors are true that this will be Nintendos highest development buget for a console games EVER by them then i have no doubts its going to blows us away.

[GreenPenInk]

 There absolutely is a point in having a horse. If you play M&B it illustrates why mounted soldiers were so valuable throughout history better than any textbook can. Even scoring a hit on a mounted soldiers is a challenge on foot and if you are going at speed you can kill by simply riding down an opponent.

 

That's a glorious mess because every fight in M&B has a lot of random variables. Each encounter in Zelda would be carefully designed. I want that sort of scope, with that sort of control available to you over your horse and all of your weapons (the controls of M&B are fantastic).  The level design/main enemy should be more along the video you posted.  I am thinking a hybrid of the two.  Cutting your way through an invading army, finding some sort of main monster Nazgul Rider/Dragon Rider/baddie riding a badder beast which you might need to shoot out of the sky.  And then fighting it on the battlefield with a war raging around you.

 

 Zelda doesn't need to/shouldn't reinvent the formula it's based on.  But it should be the most epic incarnation of it possible.

Edited by GreenPenInk, 29 July 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Mewbot]

Enough with the sequals already, when the hell is nintendo gonna make something that is NOT a sequal??!??!?

"X" isn't a sequel, well, unless it's connected to the Xenoblade games, but there hasn't been any confirmation on that yet.