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Critics of The Wii U Are Way Off Base !


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#21 Alex Atkin UK

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

Colinx, on 23 Sept 2013 - 9:58 PM, said:To comment, from what I know Pikmin 3 does not use the Gamepad to best of its ability. They really could have made the game utilize touch and physical controls. Using the stylist to aim and back bumper/trigger to throw and switch Pikmin types. Just as an option though.
Also, "I can honestly say that the Nintendo Wii U is not only the best video game home console Nintendo has made, but is the best video game home console I have ever owned."Are you serious? Its way to early to say the Wii U is the best home console you've ever owned, an opinion or not. 

Do you own Pikmin 3 ?

I have owned the Coleco Telstar, Atari 2600, Intellivision, C64, Tank, NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, Turbo Duo, N64, CG, Game Boy Player, PS1 & PS3, Wii, and now the Wii U, and yes, it is the best system so far, Retail success or not, as a system, I like it the best.

 

That explains it, you haven't owned Xbox 360 which completely changed gaming for me.

 

It introduced achievements and cross-gaming chat, which allowed me to compete with friends on single-player games that normally do not have a competitive element, and chat to them even if they are on a different game.  The Wii U has neither of those features and is missing many besides.  Miiverse doesn't come close to offering what achievements add to the game, and it looks like Sony finally are bringing trophies up to the same level on PS4.

 

I agree that critics are wrong, the Wii U is by no means bad, but it definitely falls well short of the mark if they were trying to convince PS360 gamers to buy one. 

 

My biggest problem with the Wii U is the simple fact the hardware IS there, it has so much potential, the OS could have blown everything else away (until Xbox One/PS4) but Nintendo blew it.  They refused to add functionality that would have made it competitive and are now suffering for it. 

 

The only hardware flaws are the lack of a HDD to speed up loading and the lack of analog triggers on the GamePad, which is a bizarre decision considering Gamecube had them and its considered standard for games now.  Sure the Wii didn't, but the whole point there was to simplify for casual gamers, the Wii U was supposed to be bringing back people who were on PS360.


Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 25 September 2013 - 10:36 AM.

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#22 3Dude

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

That explains it, you haven't owned Xbox 360 which completely changed gaming for me.
 
It introduced achievements and cross-gaming chat, which allowed me to compete with friends on single-player games that normally do not have a competitive element, and chat to them even if they are on a different game.  The Wii U has neither of those features and is missing many besides.  Miiverse doesn't come close to offering what achievements add to the game, and it looks like Sony finally are bringing trophies up to the same level on PS4.
 
I agree that critics are wrong, the Wii U is by no means bad, but it definitely falls well short of the mark if they were trying to convince PS360 gamers to buy one. 
 
My biggest problem with the Wii U is the simple fact the hardware IS there, it has so much potential, the OS could have blown everything else away (until Xbox One/PS4) but Nintendo blew it.  They refused to add functionality that would have made it competitive and are now suffering for it. 
 
The only hardware flaws are the lack of a HDD to speed up loading and the lack of analog triggers on the GamePad, which is a bizarre decision considering Gamecube had them and its considered standard for games now.  Sure the Wii didn't, but the whole point there was to simplify for casual gamers, the Wii U was supposed to be bringing back people who were on PS360.


Nintendo hasnt used analog triggers since the cube because the got sued by patent squatters.

And yeah, the 360 changed gaming with that carp, into a steaming pile of homogenous garbage. Well, except cross game chat. Which is nice, but does not advance gaming in the slightest. Miiverse integration also serves that purpose rather adequately, and goes beyond whats possible with just voice chat.

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#23 RETROBLAST

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:24 PM

I must admit, I personally have no desire to cross game chat and have never really cared about achievements on my PS3, so I could care less about them on a Nintendo system. With regard to the social aspects of gaming, Miiverse does a better job of that than any system that came before it.

I certainly think Nintendo needs to do a better job of offering online multiplayer options to games, even older games, such as Super Mario Bros NES, could offer turn based online multiplayer. The tech is there, they just need to start using it.

As for Microsoft, I never liked them as a company and also have never liked the game systems they produce. I hate the Xbox controller and how everything they produce is bulky, right down to the connection cable inputs and such ... Remind me of PCs too much.

No thanks, I'll pass on XBone but I will pick up a PS4 after a year or so.

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#24 Alex Atkin UK

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:26 PM

Nintendo hasnt used analog triggers since the cube because the got sued by patent squatters.

And yeah, the 360 changed gaming with that carp, into a steaming pile of homogenous garbage. Well, except cross game chat. Which is nice, but does not advance gaming in the slightest. Miiverse integration also serves that purpose rather adequately, and goes beyond whats possible with just voice chat.

 

How is that a good excuse?  Clearly Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, numerous others have gotten round that problem (or paid a license fee).  You don't just drop a feature as important as that if you don't want to be considered a cheap kiddie console.

 

As for Miiverse, how is that even close to cross-game chat?  Pause my game, wait 6 seconds for it to load, post a message, go back to the game, nothing like being able to just continue chatting verbally with friends regardless of who is playing what game.  Does Wii U even tell you when you received a new message? 

 

Its just all too slow, cumbersome and is mostly designed for drawing.  Its extremely painful for me to write (in general not just on Wii U) never mind draw.  I agree it has some merit, the people who CAN draw make awesome use of it, but for me its utterly useless.  If I want to discuss a game its far too limited, I come here where I can make HUGE posts if I want and reach FAR more people.

 

As for achievements, I take it you are one of those people who believed they "ruined gaming"? 

How has adding something, which games already had (a list of specific tasks to complete), but making it something you can compare against your friends, a bad thing? Sure, its annoying when you cannot get certain achievements because they are time limited (online stuff particularly), but that is more the case of bad design than inherent in the system.

 

I agree that Microsoft have made a mockery of the 360 over the last few years by focusing too much on video services, tying things behind Gold subscriptions and too many adverts.  That does not however alter the fact the 360 launched some features I (used to) use all the time.  The only reason I stopped is that my friends aren't really gaming much these days.


Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 25 September 2013 - 01:34 PM.

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#25 Arkhandar

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:26 PM

Nintendo hasnt used analog triggers since the cube because the got sued by patent squatters.

And yeah, the 360 changed gaming with that carp, into a steaming pile of homogenous garbage. Well, except cross game chat. Which is nice, but does not advance gaming in the slightest. Miiverse integration also serves that purpose rather adequately, and goes beyond whats possible with just voice chat.

 

I respect you very much, and I think most of your posts are amazing and very informative, but now you have to admit that you were a little bit biased there.

 

You can't compare an achievements system with Miiverse. It's like comparing a pear with a banana (I'm hungry, sorry).


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#26 3Dude

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:10 PM

I respect you very much, and I think most of your posts are amazing and very informative, but now you have to admit that you were a little bit biased there.
 
You can't compare an achievements system with Miiverse. It's like comparing a pear with a banana (I'm hungry, sorry).


Extremely bias as I am a strong supporter of acheivments are the biggest most not good pile of garbage to ever happen to videogames and are actively destroying gaming.

But I was actually referring to miiverse being an adequate solution to single player games being made more interesting via communicating with freinds while playing.

How is that a good excuse?  Clearly Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, numerous others have gotten round that problem (or paid a license fee).  You don't just drop a feature as important as that if you don't want to be considered a cheap kiddie console.


Yeah.... ms and sony paid a licensing fee to lazily stagnate and mantain the status quo.

Nintendo invested in massive R&D and created a motion controlled console instead.

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#27 Alex Atkin UK

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:41 PM

Except motion control sucks for racing games and only games like Mario Kart are any good without analog triggers.  Even playing GTA V I extensively use the analog triggers when carefully navigating between cars.  Now I haven't played Need for Speed on Wii U to compare (I have been meaning to but as I have it on PS3 and 360 I gave up on the idea), but I'm pretty sure the difference is going to be obvious and impair the control scheme.

 

Like I said, the Wii didn't need the analog triggers as it was focused on motion gaming.  The Wii U on the other hand is meant to be an all purpose console and without the analog triggers it simply isn't.

 

I still don't get your argument about achievements (not gamerscore, ignore that).  They motivate me to go back to games I might not have played in months or even years, remind me of things I might have missed in that game that otherwise I would have forgotten as you can only tell by booting up the game.  Its the sole reason I have actually collected everything on LEGO Batman 2 and had a lot of fun exploring the game world, where without achievements I might not bother.  Basically, its a competitive element to an otherwise single player game and also reminds me to go back to old games.  How are those things bad for gaming?

 

I'm really disappointed, you usually have such rational arguments.


Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 25 September 2013 - 02:43 PM.

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#28 Arkhandar

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:28 PM

Extremely bias as I am a strong supporter of acheivments are the biggest most not good pile of garbage to ever happen to videogames and are actively destroying gaming.

But I was actually referring to miiverse being an adequate solution to single player games being made more interesting via communicating with freinds while playing.


Yeah.... ms and sony paid a licensing fee to lazily stagnate and mantain the status quo.

Nintendo invested in massive R&D and created a motion controlled console instead.

 

Although very useful and fun, in no way is Miiverse easy to communicate with friends while playing. It takes forever to launch it and the lack of real time chat (without having to refresh the damn page every time you get a message) is disturbing.

 

*Nintendo didn't "invested in massive R&D". Unlike the PS3's Cell, the tech already existed, they only streamlined it.


Edited by Arkhandar, 25 September 2013 - 03:29 PM.

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#29 RETROBLAST

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:32 PM

I may be in the minority, but I never liked analog triggers, especially on the GC controller, you had to push them too far in to get a click ... I also don't like racing games anyway.

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#30 Alex Wolfers

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:50 PM

Let's not get ahead of our selves the WiiU has problems a ton of them and I think it's only right for people to complain about them. Like not having accounts like the ps3/360 and next gen consoles or really not having any games that distinguishes what the system/gamepad can do.

They blow the issues out of the water though and never commend it on the good points. Thats what I have a problem with.



How is that a good excuse?  Clearly Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, numerous others have gotten round that problem (or paid a license fee).  You don't just drop a feature as important as that if you don't want to be considered a cheap kiddie console.

 

As for Miiverse, how is that even close to cross-game chat?  Pause my game, wait 6 seconds for it to load, post a message, go back to the game, nothing like being able to just continue chatting verbally with friends regardless of who is playing what game.  Does Wii U even tell you when you received a new message? 

 

Its just all too slow, cumbersome and is mostly designed for drawing.  Its extremely painful for me to write (in general not just on Wii U) never mind draw.  I agree it has some merit, the people who CAN draw make awesome use of it, but for me its utterly useless.  If I want to discuss a game its far too limited, I come here where I can make HUGE posts if I want and reach FAR more people.

 

As for achievements, I take it you are one of those people who believed they "ruined gaming"? 

How has adding something, which games already had (a list of specific tasks to complete), but making it something you can compare against your friends, a bad thing? Sure, its annoying when you cannot get certain achievements because they are time limited (online stuff particularly), but that is more the case of bad design than inherent in the system.

 

I agree that Microsoft have made a mockery of the 360 over the last few years by focusing too much on video services, tying things behind Gold subscriptions and too many adverts.  That does not however alter the fact the 360 launched some features I (used to) use all the time.  The only reason I stopped is that my friends aren't really gaming much these days.

1. Just because Nintendo went their own way doesn't make them kiddy.

2. It could have been better but it is still pretty cool and innovative no matter what you may think

3. Achievements are a neat feature but not game changing.

4. Microsoft is pretty crazy on paywalls and ads.


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#31 RETROBLAST

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

Rather heated debates !!! Its a good thing there are 3 major console contenders out there, something for everyone. Each system has its good and bad points, For me, its Nintendo that has my attention now, and even with all its flaws, the pluses outweigh the minuses for me. In no way do I think the system is a failure for me. When I buy a Nintendo game system, from experience, I already know certain things ... 3rd party support will be weak, it will not be the most powerful system, it will have games that offer the best gameplay, it will have games that I actually want to try to 100% complete, and it will have games I think are fun.

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#32 3Dude

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:51 PM

*Nintendo didn't "invested in massive R&D". Unlike the PS3's Cell, the tech already existed, they only streamlined it.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. You do realize cells ppe and a xenon core are the exact same product right? They are both stripped down, crippled, crapped out p5's, with a high theoretical flop throughput that looked incredible on paper.

Accelerometers existing, and developing a massive framework around how to interpret their data into usable, meaningful packets that can be converted into game inputs are two entirely different things.

And no, the technology didnt already fully exist that would enable the motion controls nintendo were planning. Triaxial Gyroscopes didnt yet exist that met nintendos size, accuracy, power draw, and reference retention Nintendo needed. Which is why motion + came years later as a peripheal.
 

Except motion control sucks for racing games.

No, you only played racing games that sucked.

I played racing games with absolute control, that enabled me to do things analogs and analog triggers could never dream of doing because they lacked the precision. Like weaving in and out of a forest at over a hundred miles an hour, or having complete control of my vehicles pitch yaw and roll (impossible on analogs, a 2d control method) So I can do things like create my own shortcuts by steering through a hole in a bridge midair, or line up my landing no matter the ground angle so all 4 wheels hit at the same time for a speed boost.

and only games like Mario Kart are any good without analog triggers. Even playing GTA V I extensively use the analog triggers when carefully navigating between cars.  Now I haven't played Need for Speed on Wii U to compare (I have been meaning to but as I have it on PS3 and 360 I gave up on the idea), but I'm pretty sure the difference is going to be obvious and impair the control scheme.

This is a load of garbage. The only game that ever made decent use of analog triggers was rouge leader, and that was because of the manual over ride. dual shock controllers have garbage analog triggers anyway. Their physical breadth of movement are entirely too small. Its an inconsequential convenience and nothing more. Its also completely pointless as you are trying to use it when the game pad has several superior methods of applying the same manuever, such as slightly tilting the gamepad forward or back.
 

Like I said, the Wii didn't need the analog triggers as it was focused on motion gaming.  The Wii U on the other hand is meant to be an all purpose console and without the analog triggers it simply isn't.

 Analog triggers are a linear control method. The game pad has very precise motion control. It can do everything analog triggers can with an infinitely higher rate of precision and a completely user custom breadth of movement. And then still have many other axis to put to use.


I still don't get your argument about achievements (not gamerscore, ignore that).  They motivate me to go back to games I might not have played in months or even years, remind me of things I might have missed in that game that otherwise I would have forgotten as you can only tell by booting up the game.  Its the sole reason I have actually collected everything on LEGO Batman 2 and had a lot of fun exploring the game world, where without achievements I might not bother.  Basically, its a competitive element to an otherwise single player game and also reminds me to go back to old games.  How are those things bad for gaming?

Thats because, however good you think those acheivments are, video games used to be much, much, much much much better. So far beyond the insulting, disgusting, slap in the face bastardization. And it wasnt a long time ago either. An 'acheivment' USED to be finding an optional dungeon, and beating it, and they USED to give you something WORTH the time you spent doing it, like ice arrows that froze crap when you shot them. And pretty much anyone here can tell you, i dont even really LIKE that entry to the series.

Todays 'acheivments'are a form of mental conditioning. To publishers good single player games with high replayability are BAD. That means gamers spend time on those games discovering all the little secrets. REAL secrets, not an acheivment for sharting in the batmobile 10 times. So, certain platform holders decided all games should have a list, so even the stupidest gamer (gornolizt) could see everything the game had laid out in front of them and they could sysematically check them off one by one. Making sure there was no surprises, nothing the simpletons could miss, as they can just look at the list. Do everything on it, and spend their money on the next clone of the same exact thing as swiftly as possible.

The culture, lead by the game review culture, latched onto this, because it was a system tailor made to be digested by gamz girnalizt. Games were clearly categorized into their well established classes, and a check list was provided for each game so the simple minded gamz girnoliz could literally track how much of a game they had digested, in record time. Games that checked the checks and fit the mould got high scores and a high metacritic. Games that fit the mould but didnt check the checks got marked poorly. The problem with this system is its only effective if the game is another clone of pre established playstyle, or does nothing unique. Anything new or different automatically gets crapped on. This lowers the meta critic score, which publishers actually fricking have surgically grafted to their brains, which means anything thats not a clone of a pre established style thats been done to death for over a decade, that cant easily be summed up by a checklist of worthless crap to do, ie what used to be a GOOD game is actively punished for being new fresh or different, ensuring the garbage continues on its path to stagnation.

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#33 RETROBLAST

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

I personally like in game achievements and in game rewards for reaching those achievements. For example, in Mario games, if you find the special coins and secret exits, you are rewarded with additional in game content, access to hidden areas and levels. The problem I have with online achievements is that in many cases you receive an achievement for things that do not even warrant an achievement, an example of this would be killing your first enemy in a Zelda game with the sword. Or achievements, on the opposite side of the fence are outrageously difficult, and if you accomplish them, there is no in game reward.

I can see how achievements appeal to some people, but I personally never go achievement hunting with regard to online achievements. When it comes to in game achievements, Nintendo games are the only games I feel compelled to try to obtain them all in. For example, I have played uncharted 1 through 3 and never felt compelled to find all the artifacts.

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#34 Alex Atkin UK

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:11 AM

Achievements were entirely game-changing for me, as I already described.  They changed my gaming habit from playing a game obsessively for a few days then drifting off to something else, often never to come back.  To actually coming back, when I see that a friend has collected something I have not.

 

As I already said, you cannot dismiss achievements just because some developers implement them poorly.  I agree, the best ones are well thought out AND unlock bonuses in-game too, but the worst ones - well you can just ignore them anyway so its no loss either way.  But even the ones that unlock just as you complete each chapter have their use, as I said before it means I can tell how far my friends are in the game.

 

This is the same principle as only having local hiscores compared to having online leaderboards where I can compete with my friends even if they never come round to my house.  Nintendo are slowing figuring this out and its why I am totally pro the Wii Sports HD releases as hopefully this will FINALLY allow me to compete with friends without them coming round.

 

The "you just started the game" I can understand the reason for those too, although I agree they are a sign of poor design on the developers part.  But the reason they do it I believe is because once you unlock an achievement that game becomes permanently assigned to your profile for all to see.  Until you unlock your first achievement, any game you play can be removed from your profile.  So developers are using it both as extra exposure and to try and motivate you to continue playing as some people just cannot resist trying for achievements when they see an incomplete game on their account.  This is going to be more risky on the new consoles with them pushing for a more social network style service, so any game which tries this it can backfire as you just need to give it a low rating and post on your wall about how terrible the game it.  Perhaps they will then think twice about trying to force the game to be visible on the profiles of people who didn't like the game.

 

The fact that Nintendo still is too focused on local multi-player is useless to me.  I mean sure, they have online, but the way its implemented has meant I have NEVER played Mario Kart 7 online because its not easy to see at a glance if any of my friends are online waiting to play, and I expect the same problem with Mario Kart 8 as the Wii U doesn't seem any better at telling you this stuff.  Xbox 360 gave you the ability to immediately see people coming online/offline, instantly check your friends list, it made online practical.  There have been several occasions I only went on a game because I saw someone on my friends list currently playing it online and I wanted to join them, the same as with achievements making me want to play a game offline because a friend unlocked one I had not.

 

I played racing games with absolute control, that enabled me to do things analogs and analog triggers could never dream of doing because they lacked the precision. Like weaving in and out of a forest at over a hundred miles an hour, or having complete control of my vehicles pitch yaw and roll (impossible on analogs, a 2d control method) So I can do things like create my own shortcuts by steering through a hole in a bridge midair, or line up my landing no matter the ground angle so all 4 wheels hit at the same time for a speed boost.


This is a load of garbage. The only game that ever made decent use of analog triggers was rouge leader, and that was because of the manual over ride. dual shock controllers have garbage analog triggers anyway. Their physical breadth of movement are entirely too small. Its an inconsequential convenience and nothing more. Its also completely pointless as you are trying to use it when the game pad has several superior methods of applying the same manuever, such as slightly tilting the gamepad forward or back.being new fresh or different, ensuring the garbage continues on its path to stagnation.

 

For the record, I am using an Xbox 360 controller even on my PS3 for their triggers (although the ones on the very original Xbox controller were better).

 

Your argument is massively flawed however as not everyone can hold a controller up in the air for long periods or even have precise control over the angle of it while gaming.  Most people need some resistance to accurately control the acceleration, and while pedals are the ideal, analog triggers are the only practical compromise that almost everyone can use.  Most importantly, I never EVER play without the controller resting on my lap, its just too painful on my arms.  Now perhaps that is unique to my own medical issues, but I doubt anyone would want to play with motion controls for 6 hours straight like I have done when playing Burnout Revenge online or GTA or many other games.


Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 26 September 2013 - 12:20 AM.

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#35 GAMER1984

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:18 AM

my opinion a good game doesnt need achievments. playing through wonderful 101 gameplay and story so good i will replay just to play the game its that good. but to each his own.



#36 3Dude

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:08 AM

Achievements were entirely game-changing for me, as I already described.  They changed my gaming habit from playing a game obsessively for a few days then drifting off to something else, often never to come back.  To actually coming back, when I see that a friend has collected something I have not.
 
As I already said, you cannot dismiss achievements just because some developers implement them poorly.  I agree, the best ones are well thought out AND unlock bonuses in-game too, but the worst ones - well you can just ignore them anyway so its no loss either way.  But even the ones that unlock just as you complete each chapter have their use, as I said before it means I can tell how far my friends are in the game.
 
This is the same principle as only having local hiscores compared to having online leaderboards where I can compete with my friends even if they never come round to my house.  Nintendo are slowing figuring this out and its why I am totally pro the Wii Sports HD releases as hopefully this will FINALLY allow me to compete with friends without them coming round.
 
The "you just started the game" I can understand the reason for those too, although I agree they are a sign of poor design on the developers part.  But the reason they do it I believe is because once you unlock an achievement that game becomes permanently assigned to your profile for all to see.  Until you unlock your first achievement, any game you play can be removed from your profile.  So developers are using it both as extra exposure and to try and motivate you to continue playing as some people just cannot resist trying for achievements when they see an incomplete game on their account.  This is going to be more risky on the new consoles with them pushing for a more social network style service, so any game which tries this it can backfire as you just need to give it a low rating and post on your wall about how terrible the game it.  Perhaps they will then think twice about trying to force the game to be visible on the profiles of people who didn't like the game.
 
The fact that Nintendo still is too focused on local multi-player is useless to me.  I mean sure, they have online, but the way its implemented has meant I have NEVER played Mario Kart 7 online because its not easy to see at a glance if any of my friends are online waiting to play, and I expect the same problem with Mario Kart 8 as the Wii U doesn't seem any better at telling you this stuff.  Xbox 360 gave you the ability to immediately see people coming online/offline, instantly check your friends list, it made online practical.  There have been several occasions I only went on a game because I saw someone on my friends list currently playing it online and I wanted to join them, the same as with achievements making me want to play a game offline because a friend unlocked one I had not.
 
 
For the record, I am using an Xbox 360 controller even on my PS3 for their triggers (although the ones on the very original Xbox controller were better).
 
Your argument is massively flawed however as not everyone can hold a controller up in the air for long periods or even have precise control over the angle of it while gaming.  Most people need some resistance to accurately control the acceleration, and while pedals are the ideal, analog triggers are the only practical compromise that almost everyone can use.  Most importantly, I never EVER play without the controller resting on my lap, its just too painful on my arms.  Now perhaps that is unique to my own medical issues, but I doubt anyone would want to play with motion controls for 6 hours straight like I have done when playing Burnout Revenge online or GTA or many other games.


No, your argument is massively flawed because you very very clearly have no idea how to play motion wii games. NOBODY holds their hands straight out in the air, thats idiotic fud or at best straight misinformation spread by the gaming media.

Unlike kinect and move, which are spatial/position based motion devices, wii controllers are inertial/referential motion devices. That means the system doesnt know, nor does it care where the controller actually is, only how its moved since its last point of reference.

That means, you play with your hands resting on your lap. Or since your hands are no longer shackled together for many games spraweled across the couch, one hand dangling behind the couch and the other resting on your chest.

You are making an argument from a position of absolute ignorance, and its showing through.


The only reason acheivments can have an impact on you is if the games you played were just that poorly designed. And judging by you bringing up lego batman (not with a 10 foot pole) this is starting to very clearly be a strong possibility. Acheivments are a cheap 'replacement' more akin to a vulgar parody, of things people used to look for in games with great design. It can not remotely compare to the real deal, and far worse, its actively cannabalizing it.

While you may see them bringing more 'value' to poorly desigjed games, they are nothing but a slap in the face to me, who still remembers the corpse they are defiling.

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#37 meitantei_conan

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:54 AM

 

my opinion a good game doesnt need achievments. playing through wonderful 101 gameplay and story so good i will replay just to play the game its that good. but to each his own.

 

THIS!  I never replay a game for achievements or actively look for them, imo they are pointless.  If a game has really good gameplay you will always want to come back to it, W101 being a good example(love this game so much).  


Edited by meitantei_conan, 26 September 2013 - 03:54 AM.


#38 Happy Monk

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:06 AM

Firstly, this site is ridiculous. So many people moaning and complaining about stupid things.

 

Secondly, achievements are pointless extras. Steam is full of achievements, do I care? no. I just play the games. Steam also has those trading cards and Steam levels for when you get more badges, I sell those trading cards and people actually buy them. People's egos are so big that they need to actually buy virtual trading cards? Sure achievements can make you go back to the game, but at the end of the day, the game itself is, not the achievements. This is why Microsoft do well with a lot of "gamers", they fill their ego. Actual gamers (you know, the ones who really hate the word) play games.

 

Lastly, the Wii U plays games. The controller is good, very good. Miiverse is ace. If I actually want to talk to mates, I do. When I'm playing a game, I want to play it alone (unless it's multi-player of course).

 

Can no one just accept other people's opinions and move on? I like the Wii U, I own a Wii U and have never regretted it. Does that make me wrong? No. It is my choice, just as it is any body's choice to buy the thing or play it, it is entirely up to them. It is pointless to complain and moan about something so much when at the end of the day it is a piece of entertainment and highly unnecessary for every day life.

 

And yes, Nintendo does need to make it easier to see what friends are up to.


Bring the noise.

#39 Alex Atkin UK

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:48 AM

No, your argument is massively flawed because you very very clearly have no idea how to play motion wii games. NOBODY holds their hands straight out in the air, thats idiotic fud or at best straight misinformation spread by the gaming media.

Unlike kinect and move, which are spatial/position based motion devices, wii controllers are inertial/referential motion devices. That means the system doesnt know, nor does it care where the controller actually is, only how its moved since its last point of reference.

That means, you play with your hands resting on your lap. Or since your hands are no longer shackled together for many games spraweled across the couch, one hand dangling behind the couch and the other resting on your chest.

You are making an argument from a position of absolute ignorance, and its showing through.


The only reason acheivments can have an impact on you is if the games you played were just that poorly designed. And judging by you bringing up lego batman (not with a 10 foot pole) this is starting to very clearly be a strong possibility. Acheivments are a cheap 'replacement' more akin to a vulgar parody, of things people used to look for in games with great design. It can not remotely compare to the real deal, and far worse, its actively cannabalizing it.

While you may see them bringing more 'value' to poorly desigjed games, they are nothing but a slap in the face to me, who still remembers the corpse they are defiling.

 

I'm sorry but nothing you just said above alters the fact that you have more control over acceleration with an actual trigger than having to keep the controller at a constant angle.  Like I said, I usually rest the controller on my lap so how exactly can I then tilt it forwards?  If I'm NOT resting it on my laptop its usually because my hands are cramping at which point I will no longer be able to hold the controller steady, negating motion controls again.  Having to tilt a controller with that level of accuracy is just asking for cramp at the best of times.  Sure, triggers still cramp your fingers but you can just change finger and it takes a MUCH longer time to occur.  Having to keep the whole controller steady is just much much harder and ends up feeling like a chore.  Again, I am not against this feature existing for people who DO like it, but the lack of analog triggers means I could never use the Wii U as my primary console.

 

Then there is the fact like you said, it measures relative to where you were.  That means if you move too quickly or too far it can completely lose calibration.  When using it for LEGO City Undercover and Wii Street U I have had it completely lose track several times.  Granted this isn't likely to happen with small movements such as controlling acceleration, but it shows the technology is far from perfect.

 

A trigger doesn't lose calibration (at least I have never seen it happen), it just works and works well.

 

As for achievements, well, you just completely glossed over my point that it adds a competitive element to single player games.  I just don't see your point because yes achievements might mean they can get away with some shovelware, but its not like they wouldn't have tried even without.  Plus it doesn't matter, you just avoid those games, its hardly rocket science.

 

You don't avoid a feature because it "might" be used badly, that was Nintendos argument for holding back on messaging abilities for so long.  Its a very poor excuse.


Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 26 September 2013 - 06:52 AM.

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#40 Nollog

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

I respect you very much, and I think most of your posts are amazing and very informative, but now you have to admit that you were a little bit biased there.
 
You can't compare an achievements system with Miiverse. It's like comparing a pear with a banana (I'm hungry, sorry).

I can tag anything I want as an "accomplishment" with a screenshot and post it to miiverse.
Is that better or worse than a number on my dashboard?

Although very useful and fun, in no way is Miiverse easy to communicate with friends while playing. It takes forever to launch it and the lack of real time chat (without having to refresh the damn page every time you get a message) is disturbing.
 
*Nintendo didn't "invested in massive R&D". Unlike the PS3's Cell, the tech already existed, they only streamlined it.

Forever. Indeed.
I don't really get cross-game chat. It seems like it'd be confusing to be playing gta and talking to someone playing cod and another watching porn.

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