94 replies to this topic

[GAMER1984]

If they "prefer" nintendo exclusives, then why do they pick those other 10 games over them?

Said it before and will say it again BALANCE. That's what Nintendo needs to find. No one is saying get rid of mario all together but I don't think a gamer should be criticized because they like mario and grand theft auto... Is there a machine available where they can play both? Could be but Nintendo refuses to put the time, money, or dedication to make it happen. They have accepted their console. Will be a secondary console. At least partner with a PC maker and offer like discount on a pc if you buy a Wii U since you have to buy another console to play other games from 3rd party.

[Leland]

Why is the default reaction to fire top management? Management still has an excellent record with the 3DS and everything before. If they were to bring in new management all it would do is force Nintendo to have an identity crisis, possibly The ruining their reputation in the process. At most they need to try to get a better understanding of the current market and consumer perceptions, and hire analysts to come up with a solution to improve it. And fire their marketing director.

I don’t really see how Nintendo would suffer an identity crisis by bringing on new management, and frankly I think Nintendo’s reputation is already at a low - they really have nowhere else to go but up from here. Look at what happened to Disney when Iger took over, or to Apple when Steve Jobs came back - new management could turn the company around.

If Iwata isn’t up to snuff, he needs to go immediately, not “hire better analysts” all the while burning through another couple billion of their cash reserves. He clearly wasn’t prepared for this coming generation and personally, I find his repeated apologies incredibly disheartening.

Said it before and will say it again BALANCE. That's what Nintendo needs to find. No one is saying get rid of mario all together but I don't think a gamer should be criticized because they like mario and grand theft auto... Is there a machine available where they can play both? Could be but Nintendo refuses to put the time, money, or dedication to make it happen. They have accepted their console. Will be a secondary console. At least partner with a PC maker and offer like discount on a pc if you buy a Wii U since you have to buy another console to play other games from 3rd party.

Totally agree. I think gamers today are really getting screwed. If I want to play the newest Mario, Uncharted and Halo games, I will have to invest in over $1000 in console hardware - two of which are nearly identical in specs. Is it any wonder that Nintendo is having a hard time finding a market?

Edited by Leland, 13 December 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[grahamf]

Steve Jobs was Apple's original CEO. He was kicked out and then the new management nearly bankrupted Apple. Once Steve Jobs came back he reversed many of the other management's changes and that saved the company.

[Leland]

Steve Jobs was Apple's original CEO. He was kicked out and then the new management nearly bankrupted Apple. Once Steve Jobs came back he reversed many of the other management's changes and that saved the company.

Steve Jobs changed Apple's entire direction, created new markets for the company, and strengthened their existing brand immeasurably. He did that by understanding what consumers want and need, something that Iwata apparently does not.

[Aiddon]

Steve Jobs was Apple's original CEO. He was kicked out and then the new management nearly bankrupted Apple. Once Steve Jobs came back he reversed many of the other management's changes and that saved the company.

 

Firing management is really nothing more than a lazy, quick way to shut up whiny, know-nothing shareholders. However, since shareholder activism isn't prominent in Japanese business, you're not gonna see Iwata resign anytime soon.

[grahamf]

Steve Jobs changed Apple's entire direction, created new markets for the company, and strengthened their existing brand immeasurably. He did that by understanding what consumers want and need, something that Iwata apparently does not.

Steve Jobs was still the original CEO. He knew the company better than anyone else. He was instrumental in chopping off a lot of projects, including the Pippin video game console. Apple had gotten Jobs back by buying his NeXT company, thus inheriting the company's OS which became the basis of the future of Macintosh.

 

So unless Hiroshi is discovered to be alive and running a small company with assets Nintendo needs, it's not the same situation.

Edited by grahamf, 13 December 2013 - 11:51 PM.

[Leland]

Steve Jobs was still the original CEO. He knew the company better than anyone else. He was instrumental in chopping off a lot of projects, including the Pippin video game console. Apple had gotten Jobs back by buying his NeXT company, thus inheriting the company's OS which became the basis of the future of Macintosh.

So unless Hiroshi is discovered to be alive and running a small company with assets Nintendo needs, it's not the same situation.

I think you might be missing the point, son. It doesn’t matter that Steve Jobs worked at Apple before, the point is that Apple had gone through years of bad management before ousting their management and turning the company around.

In any event, as Nintendo has only met half their projected earnings for next year, don’t be surprised to see some management changes come March.

Edited by Leland, 14 December 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[GAMER1984]

I think you might be missing the point, son. It doesn’t matter that Steve Jobs worked at Apple before, the point is that Apple had gone through years of bad management before ousting their management and turning the company around.

In any event, as Nintendo has only met half their projected earnings for next year, don’t be surprised to see some management changes come March.

 

 

Dont be surprised to see thing stay the same

[Poptartboy]

But Sony didn't to bring people in with Killzone because the dudebros were already there. It's a different situation. It's not gonna be like nintendo makes aweseom shooter and suddenly all the dudebros are all "I totally respect nintendo now, and am going to buy a wii u to play this game." because in case you haven't noticed, most dudebros
are
complete
idiots.
They're too busy trying to impress their friends with manly they are by buying COD and how their 13 year old dicks have totally grown half a millimeter. They already have their notions about Nintendo, and trying to get them to come to Nintendo is a waste of their money, especially since last gen they had a system the dudebros hated, but still had the best console sales.

Exactly. If people haven't noticed a lot of people are still buying 3DS, Nintendo just needs more games for Wii U. There are not enough still, and it's a combination of games that will save the system.

[Nollog]

When I brought my Nintendo 3DS in 2011 my thoughts were not bad about this console and it's future in the handheld gaming.

It would be, since it was Nintendo's future handheld console.

Then when the PS Vita came out, I noticed they only have 1 year gap development between them but the Vita makes the 3Ds look dated and under performing console.

Well, the price reflected the extra year of development time didn't it, sure it has more power, but it has nothing original and fun on it, making it mostly pointless for handheld gaming.

Now this ain't a problem since Nintendo is known for their diversity in games but it was weird that 3DS feels like an updated DS with 3D.

You expected the 3DS, the successor to the DS to be something else?

Moving onto Nov 2012 with the Wii U release, I didn't know if Nintendo was joking with not future-proofing their console(We have no current spec sheet).

I could not comprehend how they could sell a console with 8 or 32 Gigs and ask for a top tier pricing.

You can not future proof anything, especially in technology. They made a box they could afford and which could provide better looking and better performing games to enjoy, and sell.

Is it top-tier pricing?
PS4 is 600 or 500 of some peoples American dollars isn't it?
I'd consider that the top-tier, or should I say xbox 1, since it's 100 more.
Coming in at 350 for the 32GB model isn't much of a top-tier price imo.
Is it a bad thing to comprehend a low storage console? From day 1 you could plug in a hard drive, can any other current generation console do this?
What, on the Wii U [b]requires[/b[ you to have more than 32GB of space to play a game? Now look at the current generation competitors, requiring installs on the disk, which could be why they choose the include cheap, slow physical hard drives inside their consoles instead of more expensive, much smaller flash memory.

The thing that bothered me most about the Wii U is that Mario had an another game on the console while people where dogging on COD for being a yearly game release.

Also the fact that they have started the 8th Gen first in both categories and both the consoles which are good but still feel sub-par.

The difference here is that Mario gameplay relies on the level design, so creating 100+ new levels every year in 2D, 2.5D, 3D, takes more effort and is more in tune withe what the base game is about, than a new 2 hours story which most CoD players don't even play every year, and instead are forced to move onto the next year by server shutdown threats and forced to buy DLC on top of the base game if they want to play with more players as the games release maps become stale and void of players.
Of course I'm highlighting the things like server shutdown threats and lack of players forcing DLC buying, but it does happen to a certain extent.
Mario, instead of releasing a new story on a 10 year old engine, features new mechanics, new graphical approaches, and new platforming levels to the platformer with every itteration.
Also I want to point out that Iwata has been flooding us with Mario since the 3DS, ONLY. Before Iwata used Mario to breathe life back into the 3DS, we only got 1 2D Mario if we were lucky per generation, and 1 3D Mario in the same time, and 1 handheld Mario. Now we seem to be getting 2 Mario platformers every year, which I'm sure will absolutely destroy the franchise beyond repair. I wish they'd use DLC to mitigate this as I like the franchise a lot, and would hate for it to become unprofitable and disappear like Metroid and Star Fox before it.

One of them has to be less powerful than another in every generation of hardware.

Now in 2013, the 3DS have beaten my exceptions and I no longer care for graphics because the games are just the best.

Now for the Wii U, I fear that the current management have lost the plot and don't know what to do.

Expectations indeed.
Why do you only care about Wii U graphics then?

They know what to do in the short term. release more Mario.
There are long term problems with that, I alluded to one of the worst above, where Mario becomes unprofitable.

I wonder why they have not release game for their old I.Ps, why they have not thought for the future or how come they are letting this drought happen right now.

I think  best solution is for the Wii U to be a five-6 year console plan at the moment.

Because those games didn't sell well and have been retired.
They tried a revival as a test perhaps with Kid Icarus on the 3DS, which did not do well.
The controls are awful, so they really should try again, but they don't see it that way is my guess. They took a shot, it was a risk, and it didn't pay off at all.
As to why they have a drought, because it's new hardware. They released it early to drive initial internet connectivity, as a part of their strategy.
They want everyone on Wii U online, the best way to do that is to have an update only downloadable from the console to enable certain features.
If they waited until they had several huge first party games for launch, they would be without the income from NSMBU, Pikmin 3, etc. while the Wii bleeds to death, and the 3DS is their only income, with people asking, "What are they working on?" for 2 years while creating the games they're working on right now for release late this year, and in 2015 like Zeldou and X.
Basically, games take time to make.

That is always the plan at Nintendo.

I do wish Nintendo success but I think a new era of management needs to come now.

Remember this is just my opinion and no one else has influenced my words. Also I do sincerely apologize if you find any spelling or grammatical errors. Have a nice day and leave your feed back.

Iwata will have to answer to share holders eventually. He can't keep saying "1 game next year! 9 million units!", he has to have some results soon or they will have zero confidence in him.
Hopefully, they stay away from iOS and Android development no matter what.

It's just your opinion, a lot of people hide behind that nowadays thinking it lets them say whatever they want without having to back up their opinion.
And people love to say they love Nintendo, but... something about them being doomed and how they hate Nintendo. I find it strange.

You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text
^lol

[Arkhandar]

So unless Hiroshi is discovered to be alive and running a small company with assets Nintendo needs, it's not the same situation.

 

Minoru Arakawa?

[grahamf]

I think you might be missing the point, son. It doesn’t matter that Steve Jobs worked at Apple before, the point is that Apple had gone through years of bad management before ousting their management and turning the company around.

In any event, as Nintendo has only met half their projected earnings for next year, don’t be surprised to see some management changes come March.

My point is that after Apple fired Jobs they went downhill pretty quick. Nintendo appointed Iwata in 2004 and under his leadership Nintendo launched the Wii, DS, and 3DS; all very successful products. The Wii U is just the latest of these, and it's sales numbers could just as easily be a nonrepeated fluke than fundamentally flawed management. Nintendo launched the original NES just after the big videogame crash and has always been very conservative, even when they know it pushes away third parties.

 

Nintendo has not repeated Atari's mistake of not ensuring published games were too many or too crappy.

Nintendo has not repeated Sega's mistakes of launching new consoles too quickly.

The closest thing would be when Nintendo released the Virtual Boy, which is way more radical and comparatively expensive compared to the Wii U. Nintendo was not threatened by that failure, and Nintendo has no risk of a repeat.

Edited by grahamf, 14 December 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Poptartboy]

It would be, since it was Nintendo's future handheld console.
Well, the price reflected the extra year of development time didn't it, sure it has more power, but it has nothing original and fun on it, making it mostly pointless for handheld gaming.
You expected the 3DS, the successor to the DS to be something else?
You can not future proof anything, especially in technology. They made a box they could afford and which could provide better looking and better performing games to enjoy, and sell.

Is it top-tier pricing?
PS4 is 600 or 500 of some peoples American dollars isn't it?
I'd consider that the top-tier, or should I say xbox 1, since it's 100 more.
Coming in at 350 for the 32GB model isn't much of a top-tier price imo.
Is it a bad thing to comprehend a low storage console? From day 1 you could plug in a hard drive, can any other current generation console do this?
What, on the Wii U [b]requires[/b[ you to have more than 32GB of space to play a game? Now look at the current generation competitors, requiring installs on the disk, which could be why they choose the include cheap, slow physical hard drives inside their consoles instead of more expensive, much smaller flash memory.
The difference here is that Mario gameplay relies on the level design, so creating 100+ new levels every year in 2D, 2.5D, 3D, takes more effort and is more in tune withe what the base game is about, than a new 2 hours story which most CoD players don't even play every year, and instead are forced to move onto the next year by server shutdown threats and forced to buy DLC on top of the base game if they want to play with more players as the games release maps become stale and void of players.
Of course I'm highlighting the things like server shutdown threats and lack of players forcing DLC buying, but it does happen to a certain extent.
Mario, instead of releasing a new story on a 10 year old engine, features new mechanics, new graphical approaches, and new platforming levels to the platformer with every itteration.
Also I want to point out that Iwata has been flooding us with Mario since the 3DS, ONLY. Before Iwata used Mario to breathe life back into the 3DS, we only got 1 2D Mario if we were lucky per generation, and 1 3D Mario in the same time, and 1 handheld Mario. Now we seem to be getting 2 Mario platformers every year, which I'm sure will absolutely destroy the franchise beyond repair. I wish they'd use DLC to mitigate this as I like the franchise a lot, and would hate for it to become unprofitable and disappear like Metroid and Star Fox before it.

One of them has to be less powerful than another in every generation of hardware.
Expectations indeed.
Why do you only care about Wii U graphics then?

They know what to do in the short term. release more Mario.
There are long term problems with that, I alluded to one of the worst above, where Mario becomes unprofitable.
Because those games didn't sell well and have been retired.
They tried a revival as a test perhaps with Kid Icarus on the 3DS, which did not do well.
The controls are awful, so they really should try again, but they don't see it that way is my guess. They took a shot, it was a risk, and it didn't pay off at all.
As to why they have a drought, because it's new hardware. They released it early to drive initial internet connectivity, as a part of their strategy.
They want everyone on Wii U online, the best way to do that is to have an update only downloadable from the console to enable certain features.
If they waited until they had several huge first party games for launch, they would be without the income from NSMBU, Pikmin 3, etc. while the Wii bleeds to death, and the 3DS is their only income, with people asking, "What are they working on?" for 2 years while creating the games they're working on right now for release late this year, and in 2015 like Zeldou and X.
Basically, games take time to make.

That is always the plan at Nintendo.
Iwata will have to answer to share holders eventually. He can't keep saying "1 game next year! 9 million units!", he has to have some results soon or they will have zero confidence in him.
Hopefully, they stay away from iOS and Android development no matter what.

It's just your opinion, a lot of people hide behind that nowadays thinking it lets them say whatever they want without having to back up their opinion.
And people love to say they love Nintendo, but... something about them being doomed and how they hate Nintendo. I find it strange.

You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text
^lol

You are so spot on about people saying they love Nintendo and then ranting.

I have been happier with the Wii U this year than I have any other console for the last 5-6 years.

[Aiddon]

Iwata will have to answer to share holders eventually. He can't keep saying "1 game next year! 9 million units!", he has to have some results soon or they will have zero confidence in him.
Hopefully, they stay away from iOS and Android development no matter what.

 

...It amazes me at how many times I have to reiterate this due to people not doing their homework properly. So here it goes again: SHAREHOLDERS DON'T DO CRAP IN JAPANESE BUSINESS. That stereotype of shareholders bullying Boards or CEOs, well...that's a WESTERN thing. That doesn't really exist in Japan. It's just not in their culture. So, NO, Iwata will not be answering to any shareholders anytime soon. The only way he's going to leave is through resignation and that's probably only going to happen when he's too old to keep the position. Which is going to be a LOOOOOONG time.

Edited by Aiddon, 14 December 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Nollog]

...It amazes me at how many times I have to reiterate this due to people not doing their homework properly. So here it goes again: SHAREHOLDERS DON'T DO CRAP IN JAPANESE BUSINESS. That stereotype of shareholders bullying Boards or CEOs, well...that's a WESTERN thing. That doesn't really exist in Japan. It's just not in their culture. So, NO, Iwata will not be answering to any shareholders anytime soon. The only way he's going to leave is through resignation and that's probably only going to happen when he's too old to keep the position. Which is going to be a LOOOOOONG time.

http://www.nintendo....30627qa/03.html
Iwata answering questions.

He will eventually have to answer to his actions. Japanese or not, shareholders of Nintendo are all around the world.
If they sell their stock low, the value of Nintendo stock falls, and the company loses profit from shareholders buying shares in them.
It hurts their business in the long run and is against their best interests.
It's not a WESTERN thing, it's basic public listing business practice worldwide.
Having a "boysclub" mentality will only get you so far, even in Japan.

[Aiddon]

http://www.nintendo....30627qa/03.html
Iwata answering questions.

He will eventually have to answer to his actions. Japanese or not, shareholders of Nintendo are all around the world.
If they sell their stock low, the value of Nintendo stock falls, and the company loses profit from shareholders buying shares in them.
It hurts their business in the long run and is against their best interests.
It's not a WESTERN thing, it's basic public listing business practice worldwide.
Having a "boysclub" mentality will only get you so far, even in Japan.

Problem: investors can't actually do anything against Iwata. Oh, they'll kick and scream like children but eventually they'll shut up. At best they can TRY to yell at the board of directors....who all happen to be Japanese. Yeah, not gonna work with them. This isn't so much a "boy's club" mentality as it is people telling others to know their place. Investors are that: investors, they're people who buy stock. And quite frankly it seems to me that Nintendo as a whole is getting sick of them. Iwata doesn't CARE about share prices because they're not all that meaningful when you get down to it. They're an abstract concept that people attribute a value to based pretty much on word of mouth.

Edited by Aiddon, 14 December 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Nollog]

Problem: investors can't actually do anything against Iwata. Oh, they'll kick and scream like children but eventually they'll shut up. At best they can TRY to yell at the board of directors....who all happen to be Japanese. Yeah, not gonna work with them. This isn't so much a "boy's club" mentality as it is people telling others to know their place. Investors are that: investors, they're people who buy stock. And quite frankly it seems to me that Nintendo as a whole is getting sick of them. Iwata doesn't CARE about share prices because they're not all that meaningful when you get down to it. They're an abstract concept that people attribute a value to based pretty much on word of mouth.

So you're saying they're going to buy up all their stock, and go back to being a private company?
Back when they were at their lowest share price since the Wii and DS, they had $2.3 Billion worth of shares on the market.
They could buy back all those shares at a much higher premium and waste around $6 billion of the ~$10 billion they have in investments and bonds/cash.
I doubt that would be in their best interest though, just to keep Iwata in a job he's not doing very well at.

[Aiddon]

So you're saying they're going to buy up all their stock, and go back to being a private company?
Back when they were at their lowest share price since the Wii and DS, they had $2.3 Billion worth of shares on the market.
They could buy back all those shares at a much higher premium and waste around $6 billion of the ~$10 billion they have in investments and bonds/cash.
I doubt that would be in their best interest though, just to keep Iwata in a job he's not doing very well at.

More like just let useless investors screech at walls because it's all they're worth. The moment Nintendo listens to those morons is a BAD day for the company.

[Nollog]

More like just let useless investors screech at walls because it's all they're worth. The moment Nintendo listens to those morons is a BAD day for the company.

http://www.nintendo....tion/index.html
Nintendo have been listening to those morons, as a stock holder you vote on issues.

[Tre]

My turn to chime in. Who is this "core" people are speaking of? I mean really. The Wii sold 100 million consoles. Does that mean 100 million people bought it? PS3 and XBox 360 sold roughly 80 million a piece. Does that mean 160 million people bought it? All together that would be 260 million people, right? The answer to all the questions is no. The Wii U, PS4, and Xbox One is at around 8 million. Is that 8 million people? No. People are dipping and buying multiple console. The 8th generation market have not been establish yet to even know if the Wii U is doing poorly or if the PS4 and Xbox One is doing great. The so called "core" audience have not been establish for this generation. It is going to take at least 3 years to figure that out. Nintendo is doing what most company do. They are trying to find their market and exploit it. All this talk of investors. Investors do not even know the extent of what they are investing in. They invest in numbers. Even though the total console sales of each generation has increased, there is a time when it might slow down. Numbers could be decreased by have more stable products that do not need to be purchased again. Nintendo management is fine. They know what games people want. They probably have many discussions about if a game should resurface. As someone mention, they tried with Kid Icarus. They will try another and another until they find one that sticks. The internet is a small (very small) percentage of the gaming community. I understand the OP being frustrated but it comes a time when people need to leave politics to the ones in the gaming industry.

Edited by Tre, 14 December 2013 - 06:18 PM.