51 replies to this topic

[Expansion Pak]

I would say motion controls but I have no idea where my sensor bar is so.....no.

 

Open world like Skyrim (deal with it)

 

Cool new companion who would be the same race as Link

[3Dude]

Would it shock you if I told you when I thought of what the open world should be like, in my mind I likened it to FFXII?
 
No?
 
Well then, if I told you I've never played the Elder Scrolls?

Sounds like a bad fit for zelda, as its world was never designed for the sort of interaction a ze;da game is based on.

But Im pretty sure I specifically mentioned people who called for Zelda to have a 'skyrim open world', which would mean you specifically dont apply.

I think ffxII's world is much better done than skyrim, because it was actually done by a person, and not a terrain generator set to maximum boring with some extremely man made obvious assets dropped in.

That being said, although xII has considerably better variety of environments, and visually more interesting, it also falls prey to very repetitive monotonous crawls through samey scenery with nothing really to look at quite often. Its a hard situation to avoid, and requires a fortunes worth of talented motivated individuals, time, effort and expertise, who sadly have become quite rare thanks to todays environment and focus.

FUrthermore, ffxII did, I feel, everything possible considering the limitations of the hardware in 2006, and experience levels at that time. However, that method of world design, bound by ram constrications and processor streaming capability, are obsolete, and would not be the step forward we are looking for, and in fact, can do. If you like the world design work done by the fine virtual architects of ffxII, you should check out their fantastic work in the criminally under apprecciated crystal bearers on wii. That little bit of extra power went a long way with their capable hands.

Open empty overworlds (the first desert you go out to is a perfect example, and set the stage for what to expect for the rest of the game as far as the overworld is concerned) that are easily streamed by ps2 era hardware, and then fake cities/towns that are nothing but a visual prop, to be seperated by a loading screen while a tiny portion of the real city is then loaded (to be swapped out yet agin every 20 or so feet) is the exact opposite of people want. As well designed as the world was at the time, its small and claustrophobic in the cities now, and while the scale is quite open in the overworld, is completely barren and empty besides simplistic hills and that one instanced peice of environment (That one tree, or rock sticking out of the ground repeated over and over again).

I mean, you are literally in an empty desert, cross a dotted line, and suddenly you are at the paved gate to a castle that was nowhere to be seen before. Thats ffXii overworld.

What we want, is to take out all those loading screens, a persistant world is a seemingly 'small' difference that does amazing things for the way the game is experienced or 'feels'. We need to be able to see that castle, when its a speck in the distance, walk all the way up to it, in its gates, climb on top of a building and look back out at the mountain we were on 20 minutes before. We want to take out all that emptiness of ffxii's/skyrims overworld, and put structures to explore and things to do. Interesting things to find, interesting things to just plain see, or experience, and rewards worthy of being sought.

What I believe these people want, is skyrim scale, but actually filled with worthwhile things to do, and good game and environment design. Not a world where nothing matters because everything is scaled to your level, and every place you go to looks exactly the same as the last place you just left (which ffcii does a pretty good job at avoiding, especially considering the tech limitations of the time, but again, is obsolete, we are now capable of doing, what xii had to compromise).

But skyrim, skyrim is just horrible horrible, boring worthless design where you can go anywhere in any order because nothing you do and nowhere you go matters. Everything is level scaled too you, almost everything you see is just generated, all enemies you encounter are always your level, so nowhere you find can be exciting or intimidating, or out of your league, for you to remember to go back to later, chest loot is always scaled to what you should have according to your level, so not only is there no risk, but theres really no reward either. You were going to get out of that chest in that dungeon what you possibly could have gotten from any chest anywhere at that level, aside from a handful of unique objects (like masks).

Generated design will never, ever, ever, ever, ever come remotely close to matching human design, and the draw for giving those benefits up, 'emergent gameplay' is so sorely lacking its practically a joke. Its not worth what was sacrificed, particularly since something like xenoblade, which runs off a good old finite state machine, blows skyrim out of the water with how your actions have an impact on the world around you. You permanately change the world, the people in it, how they live, who they become friends with, who they become enemies with, your actions will determine whether NPC's live, or die (with tall the implications associated), where they end up living, or even changing jobs and routines entirely (not too mention changing appearence).

What people want, is a zelda with a bigger overworld, full to the brim of Nintendo's peerless design. What they absolutely do NOT WANT is Skyrims horrible, horrible world design. They want the size, they absolutely do NOT want the rest of it. Even if they think they do.

[grahamf]

I'm not sure how well an open world would be. It would kind of force Nintendo to lock down their story, as opposed to letting future games build on the story and add parts never heard of before.

 

Because if there's a complete open world you're going to expect to see everything (from the Twilight mirror to the Picori door) in there, and staying canon alone would take up a lot of resources.

 

Skyrm is easy because they can copy or make stuff up as they go along, but Zelda has 21 games (excluding the three abominations) under its belt, and staying canon would be really hard.

[3Dude]

I'm not sure how well an open world would be. It would kind of force Nintendo to lock down their story, as opposed to letting future games build on the story and add parts never heard of before.
 
Because if there's a complete open world you're going to expect to see everything (from the Twilight mirror to the Picori door) in there, and staying canon alone would take up a lot of resources.
 
Skyrm is easy because they can copy or make stuff up as they go along, but Zelda has 21 games (excluding the three abominations) under its belt, and staying canon would be really hard.

Skyrim is the latest in a series of games called the elderscrolls, the fifth main installment, and 18th total entry in the series, the franchise is almost as old as Zelda itself, all taking place in the same world, in much closer temporal proximity, and far more defined backstory and lore, than Zelda.

Zelda, is the one that makes story stuff up as it goes along, and it does fine, its not the other way around.

[Captain Marvelous]

Skyrim is way overrated, as most of Bethesda games.

Most of their games is like something new in the first hours, then is boring as hell....

 

 

If people want them to take inspiration in olther western rpg games, i say Bethesda games is not on the top list.

[NintendoReport]

Cranky Kong

[3Dude]

Skyrim is way overrated, as most of Bethesda games.
Most of their games is like something new in the first hours, then is boring as hell....
 
 
If people want them to take inspiration in olther western rpg games, i say Bethesda games is not on the top list.

Pretty much, their game/world design literally hasnt changed since 1996, except better graphics. And world size shrunk to 1/1700th the size they used to be. (Not an exageration... Skyrim, ES V is 50 square miles, Daggerfall, ES II is 88,745 square miles, had 15,000 cities and dungeons, and 750,000 NPC's to interact with). Its still just boring computer generated terrain, with average designed towns and landmarks occaisonally blatantly, just cut and pasted into the generated environment, with nearly the same exact, glitchy, barely functional scripting engine preventing the player from actuallu getting anywhere in the actual main story until modders take it upon themselves to fix the game.

In comparison, Xenoblade, all overworld areas combined, is roughly the same size as Skyrim, but literally everwhere you go and from anywhere you are, there are a variety of crazy landmarks, that you CAN ACTUALLY GO TO and completely explore yielding all manner of experiences and rewards. Because every square inc of xenoblade was designed by hand.

[MatrixChicken]

Yeah, like a lot of you are saying, motion controls need to be there... They were one of the amazing things about SS.

 

To be honest, Skyward Sword is, like, the best game I've ever played, so all I really expect is another game like Skyward Sword in aesthetic and feel, but improved graphics (obviously), improved motion controls, and a clever use of the gamepad. I absolutely LOVED the look of SS, and I much prefer it to the gritty, more "mature" look of, say, Twilight Princess. Whoa... I totally forgot about music... Well, I'm just gushing about SS right now, so... A list of my expectations:

 

1. Support for play with gamepad only, Wii U Pro Controller with gamepad, and Wiimote Plus + Nunchuk with gamepad. The reason I add "with gamepad" is...

2. There needs to be something that you can only do with the gamepad*. I know it would probably break the flow of the game if you had to switch between the gamepad/whatever other controller you were using, but the Wii U desperately needs to show a need for the gamepad, plus I would absolutely love to see what sort of crazy ideas Ninty came up with for that!

3. Same aesthetic/musical feel as SS. Skyward Sword has what should be the definitive look and feel, in my opinion. I just loved the bright and colorful feel of it. Of course, this is just my opinion.

4. More open world would be nice, but I don't need it. I was perfectly fine with Skyward Sword's system.

 

My hopes will probably all be dashed but the one about having good music... xP Ah well, a guy can hope, can't he?

 

*Now that I think about it, said feature could just be more fun to do on the gamepad, or easier to do, as I'm sure some idiot will want to play purely on the Pro Controller for some reason.

[grahamf]

Skyrim is the latest in a series of games called the elderscrolls, the fifth main installment, and 18th total entry in the series, the franchise is almost as old as Zelda itself, all taking place in the same world, in much closer temporal proximity, and far more defined backstory and lore, than Zelda.

Zelda, is the one that makes story stuff up as it goes along, and it does fine, its not the other way around.

Exactly. Zelda has an always changing mythology and story, so there needs to be room left to allow for new and different stories.

[SirSlifer]

Why not a console game that has Vaati as the main villain instead of Ganon. I'd like to see a full on console game with Vaati as the villain instead; if not Vaati a new villain because Ganon is just getting old (& predictable impo).

[Zinix]

Co-op with Luigi to continue the year of Luigi. 

[Socalmuscle]

Meh. The years of logo was just a smokescreen to tide people over for sm3d.