129 replies to this topic

[Socalmuscle]

That's stupid. I've seen the pic and read the article. And sure, I really think the US Airforce logo is a stupid fit for Samus. Just like everybody else, I'd hate for Metroid to become some kind of military fps... Other than that, looking "extreme" kind of fits her being the killing machine she is. I don't know. But I really don't get how "manly"="nazi".

I didn't invent the term. It's been widely used for a long time, but whatevs.

Ans samus has never looked anything like that pic.

Argue over terms all you want.

I used a term. I think it fits. Will continue using it.

You certainly seem to be putting a lot of focus on the graphics though. Look, anyone with half a brain knows that the Wii U is stronger than the PS3/360 but also a fair notch lower than the PS4/Xbone. The only people who think/say differently are morons and trolls. The goal of Metroid, or any other game, shouldn't be to show off what the system can do. I'd rather see them put more time in to gameplay and aesthetics then worrying about pixels and textures.

A far better shot than who? It's not like I'm saying they should pass off Metroid to some hack developer. Once again, I have no problem with Retro doing another Metroid, as long as they have something worth making and not half baked ideas. We don't need another Prime 4 just for the sake of having a Prime 4. Whoever makes the next Metroid needs to be able to take the series to the next level, and that doesn't just mean shiny graphics.

Other M focused on Samus as a female and her internal struggles. The fans hated it. It had nothing to do with doing it right or wrong. And it wasn't just Other M that tried to bring in more story. Prime 3 tried to have a more involved story and honestly it didn't bring much if anything to the game.

Pretending graphics aren't important is ridiculous.

They can make or break a game depending on genre, target audience, etc.

Graphics alone are why ps4 is liked so much. 1080p, 60fps, blah blah...

If gfx weren't important, the wii wouldn't have died well before the wii u came out.

Metroid isn't a game that can go back to the 80s and be a side scroller. The prime series featured top graphics for its day. And other m was a gfx showcase as well considering the hardware.

Metroid on wii u needs tight gameplay, some interesting mechanics twists. A great, epic story, and freaking awesome, top notch, amazing GRAPHICS that make people take notice.

Do I emphasize graphics in a metroid game? Of course. It would be ridiculous not to. Does that automatically de-emphasize anything else. Not a chance.

But emphasizing graphics because that's what puts the VIDEO in video games and Metroid is an EPIC SCI FI FIRST PERSON SHOOTER/ADVENTURE.

The wii u is hurting because most of its games don't look new gen. Sm3d does and esp DKTF, but they are not the epic, sprawling, adventure games that metroid is.

Your creating an argument that doesn't exist.

Sure wii u isn't ps4. But that's no excuse to not shoot for the stars. In fact, it's all the more reason to wring every last drop of performance from the machine. Something that retro with its enlarged and very talented staff can do in spades. Any idea that any developer can do just as good is nonsense. Some can. But they aren't working on wii u. And this whole idea that just because wii u isn't as powerful as ps4 means that they shouldn't try anymore to impress with graphics is defeatist and accomplishes nothing. The game needs to impress. And yes, the wii u is powerful enough to look good even against ps4 games. Will it best them? No. But it will look comfortable next to them. But only if they really go for it. Capice?

Other Ma tale of samus' girl struggles was hated because -- as I said before-- they did it wrong. Samus wasn't some teenage girl with her heart on her sleeve. She's a bounty Hunter. While all woman, there is a toughened exterior and heart and thought process in dealing with things. Other m wasn't believable and simply didn't make sense that samus would be such an easily moved emotional wreck. She needs to be portrayed differently. The recent tomb raider reboot is a great example of doing it right. You see Lara start off naive and very girlish, but the circumstances of the game harden her until she is much more like a female soldier by the end, yet still very feminine.. Just strong and able to keep it together as well.

Samus is already a soldier type. Other m didn't really reflect that. It was a big mistake. No one is advocating other m. Sheesh. Only mentioning that properly done female leads are "in" right now. Tomb raider and the last of us are shining examples of this. Arguing against that is just burying your head in the sand.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 03 March 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[storabajskorven]

I didn't invent the term. It's been widely used for a long time, but whatevs.

Ans samus has never looked anything like that pic.

Argue over terms all you want.

I used a term. I think it fits. Will continue using it.
 

All right, as long as the term doesn't imply that you're a nazi for not trying to be cute and feminine and pleasing to the male eye. Which it kind of suggests, right? OK, I agree that you can use what terms you want, you can call a black person a "nice person" or a female person a "beige quilt", and you can probably have good reasons to do this without being racist or misogynist or whatever. But then you need to know that people around you will probably think that you're an arsehole. Which you might not be, of course.

 

I know that the forum might censor some of the words I used. You have to use your imagination in that case.

[Socalmuscle]

All right, as long as the term doesn't imply that you're a nazi for not trying to be cute and feminine and pleasing to the male eye. Which it kind of suggests, right? OK, I agree that you can use what terms you want, you can call a black person a "nice person" or a female person a "beige quilt", and you can probably have good reasons to do this without being racist or misogynist or whatever. But then you need to know that people around you will probably think that you're an arsehole. Which you might not be, of course.

I know that the forum might censor some of the words I used. You have to use your imagination in that case.

And you completely miss the point.

A female character can be attractive, yet tough. She doesn't have to be ugly to be tough or beautiful to be tender.

And Samus has been established as the "attractive" type. Or as you put it " appealing to the make eye." Nothing wrong with that. So making her into something more manly isn't going to work.

But thanks for playing.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 03 March 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[Mewbot]

But... I would have preferred being a male protagonist.

Sexist.

 

 

Spoiler

/s

Edited by R00bot, 03 March 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[storabajskorven]

And you completely miss the point.
A female character can be attractive, yet tough. She doesn't have to be ugly to be tough or beautiful to be tender.
And Samus has been established as the "attractive" type. Or as you put it " appealing to the make eye." Nothing wrong with that. So making her into something more manly isn't going to work.
But thanks for playing.

I wasn't criticising your point, I started questioning the use of the word feminazi, and then pointed out that people will think you're a sexist if you use a word like that. But as I said, as long as you're aware of that, you're free to use any term you want. Unless it's censored by the forum, I suppose...

[Nollog]

Disagree. An epic, fps with the flair of metroid and a compelling storyline setting up a new series is exactly what the wii u needs. Especially one that shows off the wii us true new generation roots.

The last thing wii u needs is another platformer.

Zelda, metroid, smash, kart, and all do well to balance out the first party offerings and create compelling reasons to game on Nintendo hardware.

Saying retro shouldn't do metroid is like saying konami should stop metal gear. Or Nintendo should stop Mario.

The wii u is in DIRE need of a hot rod metroid game right now.

Give metroid to DICE for one game.

[Raiden]

Give metroid to DICE for one game.

[Nollog]

It'd be funny though.
The first Nintendo game that requires day 1 patches to even start it.

[GAMER1984]

I agree with a lot of points discussed in this thread. I personally think Starfox is what Retro will work on next. It's hard for me to see Nintendo llowing them to create a brand new IP ground up for wii U... but I guess anything is possible. I do think a Metroid game with amazing graphics and a kick a$$ on line multilayer that rivals the ebest in the industry would be a welcomed addition to the Wii U library. It is going to be interesting to see what Nintendo announces at E3 and even more so what they havein store for 2015. Think about it by the end of 2014 we will would already have a pikmin, 2d/3d mario, mario kart, and smash brothers. They can't rinse and repeat for 2015 we would have to see new games.... right?

[NintendoReport]

I wasn't criticising your point, I started questioning the use of the word feminazi, and then pointed out that people will think you're a sexist if you use a word like that. But as I said, as long as you're aware of that, you're free to use any term you want. Unless it's censored by the forum, I suppose...

 

No... no..... people will not start thinking he is a sexist for using a term like feminazi. Before drawing conclusions as to what you think something means, please look it up and understand it.

[MorbidGod]

I agree, Metroid is something for Nintendo fans and the Nintendo fans are the people who already own a wii u. Nintendo need a game which will get them new fans.

There are more then 6 million Nintendo fans. Nintendo needs to go after Nintendo fans, Wii casual fans, 3DS owners. If they target these customers things will be different.

The is that so called 'gamers' don't care about any game if it's on a Nintendo system. They'd rather see a game, that if it were on any other platform they would love and support, crash and burn if it's on a Nintendo system. I've seen so many so called 'fans' of Bayonetta talk about how the game is already doomed to failure. Why is that? Because it's loving fanbase is only a fanbase if it's on their system of choice. Their general idea is to watch the game completely fail and then hope that Platinum some how ports it over to the PS4/Xbone.

I don't see X fairing much better, despite how good of a game it might turn out as. At this point I just say Nintendo work at making the best games for their own fanbase that they can and make this the best damn system they can manage as well as try to get as many exclusives as possible. Let the other 'gamers' do what they will but just make sure that Nintendo's real fanbase has an awesome system.

Even if that's true, I think Bayaontta 2 will do well on the Wii U. I haven't even played the first one and I want to play this game. Same with X. I think X will appeal to JRPG fans. And Xenonlade did sell well in Japan. So X should get those fans to buy it. And if it is released in America, I think a good number of ppl will buy it. Will it be a system seller here? No.

Now I do agree Nintendo needs to cater to their fan base. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't venture out into other game categories.

[Raiden]

Xenoblade sold far better in the US than Japan. Sold sold a cool 800k worldwide and half of that US alone. Japan was like 100k I think. XB really made profit and really sold much better than they thought and in the US that was by word of mouth and one retailer selling it only. With X the Directs,E3 hopefully ads and sold in all retailers should help it sell more than Xenoblade. Hopefully 1 million.

[Azure-Edge]

There are more then 6 million Nintendo fans. Nintendo needs to go after Nintendo fans, Wii casual fans, 3DS owners. If they target these customers things will be different.


Even if that's true, I think Bayaontta 2 will do well on the Wii U. I haven't even played the first one and I want to play this game. Same with X. I think X will appeal to JRPG fans. And Xenonlade did sell well in Japan. So X should get those fans to buy it. And if it is released in America, I think a good number of ppl will buy it. Will it be a system seller here? No.

Now I do agree Nintendo needs to cater to their fan base. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't venture out into other game categories.

 

I think Bayonetta 2 will do alright, but that's about it. I expect X to fair a little bit better. I'm not saying they shouldn't try new stuff, far from it, but I'm just saying at this point they should do that with the intent of pleasing their fans. I'd rather see them revive and old franchise rather than try to make a CoD clone for example to try to get 'new fans'. 

Xenoblade sold far better in the US than Japan. Sold sold a cool 800k worldwide and half of that US alone. Japan was like 100k I think. XB really made profit and really sold much better than they thought and in the US that was by word of mouth and one retailer selling it only. With X the Directs,E3 hopefully ads and sold in all retailers should help it sell more than Xenoblade. Hopefully 1 million.

 

To be fair though, the US has a much higher population than Japan so you have to take that in to consideration.

[Raiden]

 

 

To be fair though, the US has a much higher population than Japan so you have to take that in to consideration.

Not when it comes to JRPG's on a Nintendo system in a Nintendo is doomed only for casuals we want hardcore FPS games world. Xenoblade had ads in in Japan. Full on commercials. XB had none of that in the US and was late in Wii's life when everyone was letting Wii get dusty. It was a niche game and sold far better than anyone expected and Nintendo only brought it because of OR.

 

Unless Elders Scrolls or Final Fantasy(btw XIII-2 released a couple months prior) is printed on the box or if not not heavily marketed. Won't sell. Xenoblade sold amazingly well with every single odd stacked against it. Then add only sold in Gamestop and then Gamestop hiking the price to 90$ ..top it off it was within days of Xbox 360 release of Witcher 2. Xenoblade looked doomed to become the next Earthbound...and Earthbound had marketing

Edited by Ryudo, 03 March 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[Azure-Edge]

I didn't invent the term. It's been widely used for a long time, but whatevs.

Ans samus has never looked anything like that pic.

Argue over terms all you want.

I used a term. I think it fits. Will continue using it.

Pretending graphics aren't important is ridiculous.

They can make or break a game depending on genre, target audience, etc.

Graphics alone are why ps4 is liked so much. 1080p, 60fps, blah blah...

If gfx weren't important, the wii wouldn't have died well before the wii u came out.

Metroid isn't a game that can go back to the 80s and be a side scroller. The prime series featured top graphics for its day. And other m was a gfx showcase as well considering the hardware.

Metroid on wii u needs tight gameplay, some interesting mechanics twists. A great, epic story, and freaking awesome, top notch, amazing GRAPHICS that make people take notice.

Do I emphasize graphics in a metroid game? Of course. It would be ridiculous not to. Does that automatically de-emphasize anything else. Not a chance.

But emphasizing graphics because that's what puts the VIDEO in video games and Metroid is an EPIC SCI FI FIRST PERSON SHOOTER/ADVENTURE.

The wii u is hurting because most of its games don't look new gen. Sm3d does and esp DKTF, but they are not the epic, sprawling, adventure games that metroid is.

Your creating an argument that doesn't exist.

Sure wii u isn't ps4. But that's no excuse to not shoot for the stars. In fact, it's all the more reason to wring every last drop of performance from the machine. Something that retro with its enlarged and very talented staff can do in spades. Any idea that any developer can do just as good is nonsense. Some can. But they aren't working on wii u. And this whole idea that just because wii u isn't as powerful as ps4 means that they shouldn't try anymore to impress with graphics is defeatist and accomplishes nothing. The game needs to impress. And yes, the wii u is powerful enough to look good even against ps4 games. Will it best them? No. But it will look comfortable next to them. But only if they really go for it. Capice?

Other Ma tale of samus' girl struggles was hated because -- as I said before-- they did it wrong. Samus wasn't some teenage girl with her heart on her sleeve. She's a bounty Hunter. While all woman, there is a toughened exterior and heart and thought process in dealing with things. Other m wasn't believable and simply didn't make sense that samus would be such an easily moved emotional wreck. She needs to be portrayed differently. The recent tomb raider reboot is a great example of doing it right. You see Lara start off naive and very girlish, but the circumstances of the game harden her until she is much more like a female soldier by the end, yet still very feminine.. Just strong and able to keep it together as well.

Samus is already a soldier type. Other m didn't really reflect that. It was a big mistake. No one is advocating other m. Sheesh. Only mentioning that properly done female leads are "in" right now. Tomb raider and the last of us are shining examples of this. Arguing against that is just burying your head in the sand.

 

No, the Wii U is hurting right now because Nintendo were a bunch of idiots with their line up as well as showing they're completely daft when it comes to planning. They had an entire generation to learn HD development and they didn't, they had an ENTIRE YEAR on the market by themselves that they pissed away, and so far they've picked the games to develop based purely on sales numbers and trying DESPERATELY to go after a demographic that is no longer there. What it all comes down to is their game line up. That is why the Wii U is where it is right now, not the graphics. Do you REALLY think the Wii U would be where it is right now if Mario Kart and Smash Bros. were already out?

 

What you seem to understand is that no matter how good Retro works on the Wii U's graphics, no matter if they spend YEARS working to get every last bit of performance they can out of the machine for graphical fidelity, it won't matter. Gamers who are sold on a game by graphics will think it looks like crap because it's not running on the best hardware. They'll point out every short coming and every flaw because there is some other game on the PS4/Xbone that looks better. People will say 'it looks good for a Wii U game', but that quantifying statement basically translates in to 'it's good, but we're not impressed'. The Wii U isn't going to turn the heads of graphics whores when it's put next to the other two systems, and that's why trying to play Metroid up as some super high end graphics game is pointless. I get that you love you some Retro, but they're not magicians and everything they pull out of their asses isn't diamonds and gold.

 

From the sounds of things, you don't want Metroid, you want Tomb Raider: Nintendo Edition. You want them to be all about graphics and 'story' and trying to play off this female protagonist angle which isn't at all what Metroid is about. Metroid isn't about 'Samus as a woman'. She's not defined by her sex (Laura on the other hand always has been) and she shouldn't be. just because Tomb Raider did it doesn't mean that Metroid can nor should try to do the same. Nobody cared about Tomb Raider and Laura Croft by the time that reboot came out and, from what I've seen, they still don't. 

 

Metroid isn't about it's 'story'. The stories in even the most narrative focused games have been after thoughts at best, some told better than others, but they never took center stage. Metroid isn't about being 'epic', if anything it's more subdued and underplayed. It's about the silence and the exploration of strange alien worlds. It's focus has been more on mood and a feeling of dread most of the time.

 

Do yourself a favor and go play Tomb Raider, you obviously really like it. You can enjoy your apparently awesome story about how the main character is a girl and lavish set pieces. 

Not when it comes to JRPG's on a Nintendo system in a Nintendo is doomed only for casuals we want hardcore FPS games world. Xenoblade had ads in in Japan. Full on commercials. XB had none of that in the US and was late in Wii's life when everyone was letting Wii get dusty. It was a niche game and sold far better than anyone expected and Nintendo only brought it because of OR.

 

Unless Elders Scrolls or Final Fantasy(btw XIII-2 released a couple months prior) is printed on the box or if not not heavily marketed. Won't sell. Xenoblade sold amazingly well with every single odd stacked against it. Then add only sold in Gamestop and then Gamestop hiking the price to 90$ ..top it off it was within days of Xbox 360 release of Witcher 2. Xenoblade looked doomed to become the next Earthbound...and Earthbound had marketing

 

Eh fair enough, but I'd also throw in that Operation Rainfall did PLENTY of marketing for that game in the US. Also keep in mind that Japan has way more JRPGs than we do, regardless of system so it's not that surprising that one of them would slip by. Market saturation and all.

[Neptunia]

Retro Studio is one of the finest developers in existance. Whatever they come up with I am confident it's something I'll buy.

[MorbidGod]

You certainly seem to be putting a lot of focus on the graphics though. Look, anyone with half a brain knows that the Wii U is stronger than the PS3/360 but also a fair notch lower than the PS4/Xbone. The only people who think/say differently are morons and trolls. The goal of Metroid, or any other game, shouldn't be to show off what the system can do. I'd rather see them put more time in to gameplay and aesthetics then worrying about pixels and textures.

A far better shot than who? It's not like I'm saying they should pass off Metroid to some hack developer. Once again, I have no problem with Retro doing another Metroid, as long as they have something worth making and not half baked ideas. We don't need another Prime 4 just for the sake of having a Prime 4. Whoever makes the next Metroid needs to be able to take the series to the next level, and that doesn't just mean shiny graphics.

Other M focused on Samus as a female and her internal struggles. The fans hated it. It had nothing to do with doing it right or wrong. And it wasn't just Other M that tried to bring in more story. Prime 3 tried to have a more involved story and honestly it didn't bring much if anything to the game.

I think I am alone in this statement, but I really liked Metroid Prime 3. I haven't played Other M, but always wanted to.

But I agree the next Metroid needs to bring in some awesome game play elements. I think a side scroller, in the same vein as Other M, would be fantastic. And like I said somewhere else use the game pad to explore the world in 3D. Would be freaking awesome.

[Raiden]

Metroid Prime 3 was amazing. People are smokin crack. Amazing game and my second fave in the Primes.

[MorbidGod]

I didn't invent the term. It's been widely used for a long time, but whatevs.

Ans samus has never looked anything like that pic.

Argue over terms all you want.

I used a term. I think it fits. Will continue using it.

Pretending graphics aren't important is ridiculous.

They can make or break a game depending on genre, target audience, etc.

Graphics alone are why ps4 is liked so much. 1080p, 60fps, blah blah...

If gfx weren't important, the wii wouldn't have died well before the wii u came out.

Metroid isn't a game that can go back to the 80s and be a side scroller. The prime series featured top graphics for its day. And other m was a gfx showcase as well considering the hardware.

Metroid on wii u needs tight gameplay, some interesting mechanics twists. A great, epic story, and freaking awesome, top notch, amazing GRAPHICS that make people take notice.

Do I emphasize graphics in a metroid game? Of course. It would be ridiculous not to. Does that automatically de-emphasize anything else. Not a chance.

But emphasizing graphics because that's what puts the VIDEO in video games and Metroid is an EPIC SCI FI FIRST PERSON SHOOTER/ADVENTURE.

The wii u is hurting because most of its games don't look new gen. Sm3d does and esp DKTF, but they are not the epic, sprawling, adventure games that metroid is.

Your creating an argument that doesn't exist.

Sure wii u isn't ps4. But that's no excuse to not shoot for the stars. In fact, it's all the more reason to wring every last drop of performance from the machine. Something that retro with its enlarged and very talented staff can do in spades. Any idea that any developer can do just as good is nonsense. Some can. But they aren't working on wii u. And this whole idea that just because wii u isn't as powerful as ps4 means that they shouldn't try anymore to impress with graphics is defeatist and accomplishes nothing. The game needs to impress. And yes, the wii u is powerful enough to look good even against ps4 games. Will it best them? No. But it will look comfortable next to them. But only if they really go for it. Capice?

Other Ma tale of samus' girl struggles was hated because -- as I said before-- they did it wrong. Samus wasn't some teenage girl with her heart on her sleeve. She's a bounty Hunter. While all woman, there is a toughened exterior and heart and thought process in dealing with things. Other m wasn't believable and simply didn't make sense that samus would be such an easily moved emotional wreck. She needs to be portrayed differently. The recent tomb raider reboot is a great example of doing it right. You see Lara start off naive and very girlish, but the circumstances of the game harden her until she is much more like a female soldier by the end, yet still very feminine.. Just strong and able to keep it together as well.

Samus is already a soldier type. Other m didn't really reflect that. It was a big mistake. No one is advocating other m. Sheesh. Only mentioning that properly done female leads are "in" right now. Tomb raider and the last of us are shining examples of this. Arguing against that is just burying your head in the sand.

Look, let's just agree where we agree. I think your arguments are the same just one is saying it differently.

Azure is trying to say that - just like Nintendo says - game play triumphs over graphics any day. Now, does that mean graphics isn't important? No. I'm sure Azure can agree that while Zelda: Wind Waker is considered both by fans and critics to be one of the best Zelda games of all time. But it never sold as much as it could have, because of the cartoon cell shade graphics.

So yes, graphics do matter. Azure isn't saying that they don't. Azure is only saying that game play matters because no one wants to play a pretty game that sucks butt to play.

[Azure-Edge]

I think I am alone in this statement, but I really liked Metroid Prime 3. I haven't played Other M, but always wanted to.

But I agree the next Metroid needs to bring in some awesome game play elements. I think a side scroller, in the same vein as Other M, would be fantastic. And like I said somewhere else use the game pad to explore the world in 3D. Would be freaking awesome.

 

Prime 3 is a good game, but I think it's the weakest of the three by far. Seems like Retro was running out of ideas for Metroid is all. Other M has some good foundations combined with some really REALLY weird decisions that don't make any sense. It wasn't a side scroller, however it did have a lot more in common with the side scroller Metroid than Prime. I think they should take the third person perspective of Other M and improve on its gameplay formula. Using the second screen for a first person perspective could work pretty intuitively if they did it right.