Thats what you are desperately trying to do. Not me. Im just trying to get a very serious subject to the point where it can be discussed lucidly, instead of being dismissed in favour of remaining comfortably complacant in preconceived notions.Tony the Talking Clock, on 04 May 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:
Responses in bold.
Stop beating a dead horse and further dragging the thread off-topic.
1. So... Why would I be specifically arguing only about the 'good use of acheivements'? Its pretty obvious Im specifically targeting the bad ones.. I also never said all rewards like acheivements were bad. That was a strawman of your own design. I responded because you said 'you didnt understand what some people have against acheivements'. Because you always disregaurd the subject without actually listening to what anyone says about it.
2. That would be because you are miles off course and dont listen to what is being said or the messages provided for you.
You are stuck on the end USER SIDE of acheivements. The trinket. Im telling you what PUBLISHERS, now lead by MARKETING SIDE CEO'S have been doing with them for the past 2/3rds of the last generation until now. That is the reason the vast majority of acheivements you have to admit to being silly/pointless. Its also part of the ever increasing reason the silly ones are so heavily outweighing the legitimate ones. You dont go to siggraph. You havent heard game design conferences switch themes from discussing 'dynamical meaning conflicting with authored stories in videogames', to 'managing backlash from cutting corners' and 'retaining virility in addicted whales'. Yes, yes it is impacting game design. No, it is not just acheivements, the blame cannot be placed entirely on acheivements. You should know nothing is so simple. Unfortunately, you always dismiss the subject with a strawman before it can ever get anywhere.
3. Except you see, I DID leave one hell of a whopping explanation. in fact, without watching it, you cant possibly begin to understand the context of where i am coming from.... And thats just a tiny glimpse into what i am talking about. Just the beginning. I do it on purpose to catch people in thinking traps. Because as long as people are content to be stuck in them, there is no reason whatsoever to waste time attempting to communicate with them before they snap out of it.
Just to let you know, the dissertations that I am going to be bringing up all come from game conference design lectures, and College game design lectures. If you dont want to put the effort forth required to think about these subjects on the proper level, and rather just leave things on the mental capacity of thoughtless one liners and animated gifs. Just let me know now.
I am actually interested in an example, as well.
Then you need to watch the video I provided,or at least find cliff notes for Jonathon Blows 'Dramatic presentation of non challenge'. Before we can even touch on the problems with the way acheivements are being used in contemporary game design, we need to understand how game design changed so rapidly to allow a concept as simple as an 'acheivement' to be abused so bad.