65 replies to this topic

[Nollog]

I assure you I'm not trying to rile any one up. What stuff am I ignoring?

>nothing positive about the wii u
>wii fit u = every single wii u game

Just two examples as I've already given you.

[CUD]

>nothing positive about the wii u
>wii fit u = every single wii u game

Just two examples as I've already given you.

I never said Wii Fit U is every single Wii U game...
I was just using hyperbole in saying there is nothing positive about it, there are some positive aspects sure but there are very few.

[Rockalot]

To be fair the game doesn't NEED it, and I can understand Miyamoto's reasonings, but at the same time we've been playing RTS games online with similar levels of units for a long time now, but perhaps these games don't always take in to consideration the EXACT position of each unit?

I have to say, Pikmin 3 with online multiplayer could be really really cool. A competitive edge to the game would really bring it to a new level. Imagine "Collect the X first" or "Captuure the flag" or objective based rounds, or even online co-op!

I know not every game needs online, but it would have been a great addition.

[SolarLune]

Not sure why people think that it's because Nintendo's lazy that they don't want to do online. I think that it's not really possible for Pikmin 3. Given that each player can have 100 Pikmin max, even for just two players, that's a lot of data to send. If you send the individual data for each Pikmin, it probably wouldn't play close to smoothly, and if you just 'fudged' the positions for them, it could cause game inconsistencies. The only games that have so many objects being synced across the network are RTS titles, which take place in turns. Pikmin doesn't take place in turns - it's an action title, so each object position would need to be synced as often as possible. That would be really difficult to do.

[Rockalot]

I agree with you except for the "RTS titles are turn based" Clearly they are not, look at any of the Command and Conquer games, or better yet the total war series, which sports thousands of units per side in any given battle.

but aside from that I agree with you.

[SolarLune]

Sorry about that - most RTS titles that I remember are turn-based. Even so, units in the RTS titles I'm familiar with generally don't move sporadically like Pikmin. Pikmin can decide to pick up objects, attack enemies, get flung in different directions, get eaten (several at a time), etc. They do a lot of different actions. In RTS titles, units usually head in specific directions until they approach their target directly and then attack, or do AI pathfinding to get there, but do so slowly.

I'm just saying that there's shortcuts that you can take for online for RTS titles, and since the action is slower, you can afford for something that the player does now to be transmitted to the other players in a few seconds. For a game like Pikmin, though, that can be a huge difference.

I don't play many RTS titles, though, so I'm not particularly versed in the topic.

In any case, I'm glad to see local multiplayer, at least.

Edited by SolarLune, 12 June 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[Rockalot]

That's a much better explanation. I agree completely. It's still a shame, it would be great, but obviously it's just not meant to be.

[Kirito the black swordman]

Im fine with this game not having online multiplayer really, no problemo

[Hoodbury]

I don't think you know this, but RTS = REAL TIME strategy. RTS games are not turned based.

Again, I played Command and Conquer Red Alert back in the 90s on a dial up modem with 'hundreds' of units on screen. I don't think you are giving technology credit for how good it is today.

[SolarLune]

"RTS" is real-time strategy, but the RTS games that I recall playing took based in turns. Battle of Wesnoth is an example of a turn-based RTS game. There are differnet kinds of RTS games - Pikmin is an action game, but definitely has RTS elements.

Maybe I'm not giving technology credit, but we're already experiencing lag with online multiplayer titles that have 16 players - do you think that it could handle 100s of characters syncing with playable lag?

Edited by SolarLune, 12 June 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[dagwood dang]

Nintendo shouldn't be afraid of online multiplayer, but I gotta say...

I'm soooo glad that they still push for Local multiplayer in a lot of their games.
I hear the whole "framerate sacrifice" arguement for local (split-screen) play, but honestly, It isn't impossible to have online (or LAN) AND local multiplayer as an option in the same game.

The MAIN reason why most games from M$ and Sony are online multi only, is because it forces you to spend more money. with M$, you have to continue to pay for LIVE, and with Sony, all of the online DLC and stuff for your favorite online games. It's more of a BUSINESS move than anything.

I don't care what anybody says, online co-op will NEVER have the same fun and appeal as local co-op. Sorry if your friends don't come over to visit anymore, but hey...

[DarkU]

Am kind of glad nintendo is concentrating on local multiplayer. i think the game would be quite complex to play if it was to feature online multiplier features. Miyamoto knows what he is doing with his games but hope he includes online multiplier with other games in the future though.

[Nintendoes]

"RTS" is real-time strategy, but the RTS games that I recall playing took based in turns. Battle of Wesnoth is an example of a turn-based RTS game. There are differnet kinds of RTS games - Pikmin is an action game, but definitely has RTS elements.

Maybe I'm not giving technology credit, but we're already experiencing lag with online multiplayer titles that have 16 players - do you think that it could handle 100s of characters syncing with playable lag?

Battle of Wesnoth is a Turn-based strategy game not a RTS.

[lucario23]

I am so glad this topic is being brought up.

I played Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles for the fIrst time in more than a year with my brother and a friend the other day. We were over at a different friends house who wouldn't stop playing GTA IV. He sat there and laughed at us for being nerds while we had a great time watching a Lilty bounce a fancy goblet in the air perfectly while holding a spear. We also enjoyed watching a berserker Lilty and Selkie just not die cuz I was healing them literally every two seconds

Something about playing this shortly after listening to nintendos press conference made me realize that this was how games were meant to be played. We were all there enjoying ourselves by laughing strategizing and just hanging out together. When you compare the three of us to our friend who was growing progressively more pissed off as the evening went
(for the record we did ask him if he wanted to play with us, he just laughed (he considers himself a hardcore gamer)) which party got the most of their experience? Now you tell me if online multiplayer is really necessary

[The Lonely Koopa]

"RTS" is real-time strategy, but the RTS games that I recall playing took based in turns. Battle of Wesnoth is an example of a turn-based RTS game. There are differnet kinds of RTS games - Pikmin is an action game, but definitely has RTS elements.

Maybe I'm not giving technology credit, but we're already experiencing lag with online multiplayer titles that have 16 players - do you think that it could handle 100s of characters syncing with playable lag?

Well I may not be well verse in Console's Primitive online. But I can play games like Star Craft 2 and Warcraft 3 online Pretty easily with many units on screen at once since remember their a difference between having 32 units on a battlefield and having 32 players on the battlefield.Maybe consoles are still more primitive with online than late 90s and early 20s pc gaming online and it lots of ways I guess they are but this I don't think is one of them.


This is a Halo wars a (simplified) rts for a regular controller yet you get the idea around the end it does get many Units on screen at once and this was a 4 player online match.I feel pikmin just because of its very nature is going to easier to do than this right here so if you don't believe the wiiu can do pikmin online without lagging you might as well just say Nintendo new online system is worst than this gens online which I don't or at least not by a significant margin.

If you still don't think it possible here is a Wii RTS .

Made by Nintendo, also online so Nintendo themselves isn't even new to RTS online.

Edited by The Lonely Koopa, 12 June 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[SolarLune]

Huh, my mistake. I thought that there was only RTS - I forgot about Turn-based strategy games as a game genre. I guess it's possible to do for sure, then. I'm not sure why Nintendo wouldn't do it.

[Hoodbury]

Something about playing this shortly after listening to nintendos press conference made me realize that this was how games were meant to be played.
/snip
Now you tell me if online multiplayer is really necessary

Nice story, and I agree that local multiplayer is a hoot, but no one ever said anything about removing local multiplayer to have online multiplayer. In this day and age, both are perfectly common place.

Now imagine yourself growing up and moving out but still keeping in touch with your local gaming friends. You still have the same interests as them but you live 200 miles away from each other. Wouldn't you still like to have that great multiplayer experiences with them? It wouldn't be as intimate as sitting next to them on the couch, but with voice chat it can still be a lot of fun.

A lot of us rely on online multiplayer to keep the games going with our friends who no longer live a block away.

[Blake]

You're forgetting this is CUDpwns. A huge Nintendo-hater on the 3DS Forums. He'll say anything negative about Nintendo just because he can.

Yay! One of our first trolls!

Sarcasm is fun.

Edited by Blake, 12 June 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[SPG]

this is one of the games that doesnt need online, and IMO it wouldnt be that fun for a pikmin game

[zzuxon]

Pikmin 3 would not benefit from online. I'm not dissappointed in the least. Besides, it would be COMPLETELY INFEASIBLE processing-wise. Miyamoto made a smart move.