82 replies to this topic

[3Dude]

LMFAO Chris Nay (guy on the official ibm twitter feed, who keeps confirming p7 over and over and over and over) Is one of ibm's lead research and communications engineers.

Its over kid.

Your crappy 476 processor isn't in the wiii u, thank god.

[Socalmuscle]

Are people really questioning this? It's been known for a looooong time. and it's been reiterated in no uncertain terms. Enough already.

[Usman Mohammad]

LMFAO Chris Nay (guy on the official ibm twitter feed, who keeps confirming p7 over and over and over and over) Is one of ibm's lead research and communications engineers.

Its over kid.

Your crappy 476 processor isn't in the wiii u, thank god.

Are people really questioning this? It's been known for a looooong time. and it's been reiterated in no uncertain terms. Enough already.

I want to ask him that wuestion, TheHappening isn't a Nintendo hater, he's praised the Wii U on numerous things, but what I don't get is why he keeps harping on it being a PPC4xx chip.

PPC4xxx is a different chip than the Power7 chips, What the twitter said was the Wii U CPU is a 45nm custom power 7 chip. There's a full stop after that, then he goes on to state that it's the same SOI design that is used in IBMWatson. So the core archetecture is Power7 that's been said but why are keep stating it's a PPC4xx chip, you keep citing VGLeaks as your source when they are hardly a credible source, they only popped up at E3 2012 and yet you're believing every word.

TheHappening just explain to us why it's PPC4xx when it's stated custom 45nm Power 7 chip (full stop) Same SOI design used in IBMWatson. Does that clearly not mean it's the main Power7 archetecture for the Wii U CPU.

What else are we missing out? Because your posts just bring up the fact that PPC4xx is also 45nm, so what if it is? Can't both PPC4xx and Power7 be 45nm based?

Honestly what are we missing, because you're very certain of it being a PPC4xx rather than Power7 despite all these confirmations from IBM.

[storabajskorven]

Are people really questioning this? It's been known for a looooong time. and it's been reiterated in no uncertain terms. Enough already.

To me, it was a bit ambiguous before, plus you couldn't be sure they hadn't made any last minute changes. This last tweet from IBM clearly states power7, so it is in fact clearer.

[Medu]

LMFAO Chris Nay (guy on the official ibm twitter feed, who keeps confirming p7 over and over and over and over) Is one of ibm's lead research and communications engineers.

Its over kid.

Your crappy 476 processor isn't in the wiii u, thank god.

There is nothing wrong with a 476, especially a custom one.

One of the few things that we know about the Wii U hardware is that it consumes 45watts. Take away 10 watts for ram/mobo/disk drive and that leaves 35watts for the CPU/GPU. This will probably leave at most 10 watts for the CPU, or 3.33watts per core. Now an 8 core Power 7 chip uses 200-250watts, or 28watts per core. A 476 uses 1.6watts at 1.6Ghz. So either IBM scaled the 476 to be a bit more powerful, or scaled the the Power7 chip down massively(and probably made it more similar to 476 than a tradional Power7 chip).
So in the end we are probably going to see chip that is a mixture of both a 470 design and a Power7.

[Socalmuscle]

There is nothing wrong with a 476, especially a custom one.

One of the few things that we know about the Wii U hardware is that it consumes 45watts. Take away 10 watts for ram/mobo/disk drive and that leaves 35watts for the CPU/GPU. This will probably leave at most 10 watts for the CPU, or 3.33watts per core. Now an 8 core Power 7 chip uses 200-250watts, or 28watts per core. A 476 uses 1.6watts at 1.6Ghz. So either IBM scaled the 476 to be a bit more powerful, or scaled the the Power7 chip down massively(and probably made it more similar to 476 than a tradional Power7 chip).
So in the end we are probably going to see chip that is a mixture of both a 470 design and a Power7.

Nothing wrong with PPC 4xx.

But it's not Power7.

However, Power7 has the entire PPC instruction set included.

Power7 is 45nm, SOI. It's humorous and tragic at the same time that anyone sees a manufacturing process similarity and equates two different products.

This is not the stock Power7 chip.

If it was PPC4xx, IBM would have said so. There is a difference.

The foundation of the chip is Power7. That is the architecture. That Power7 architecture specific has been customized to suit the Wii U console.

the fact that IBM is stating Power7 time and again is VERY telling. They know the difference. They are stating that because IT IS A POWER7.

Period.

/thread.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 18 September 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[3Dude]

There is nothing wrong with a 476, especially a custom one.

One of the few things that we know about the Wii U hardware is that it consumes 45watts. Take away 10 watts for ram/mobo/disk drive and that leaves 35watts for the CPU/GPU. This will probably leave at most 10 watts for the CPU, or 3.33watts per core. Now an 8 core Power 7 chip uses 200-250watts, or 28watts per core. A 476 uses 1.6watts at 1.6Ghz. So either IBM scaled the 476 to be a bit more powerful, or scaled the the Power7 chip down massively(and probably made it more similar to 476 than a tradional Power7 chip).
So in the end we are probably going to see chip that is a mixture of both a 470 design and a Power7.

Sure, if you are making a portable system. The stress draw of wii u is 75 watts, near double its average use. If you know anything about p7, and its ability to adjust frequency and power draw of its cores independabtly and dynamically, this would mean something.

An 8 core midrange power 7 PACKAGE Draws 200 watts, said PACKAGES are designed for super computers and uber servers, meaning they have a metric butT ton of power drawing components, memory components I/o busses etc That have NO PLACE OR USE in a games console.

Your method of simply dividing the power draw of an entire PACKAGE by dividing the power draw by the number of cores is greviously erroneous.

past that p7 gains its power over p6 by its effeciency of architecture, namely ibm's new edram technology for caches that acts like 6tsram. NOT by increasing the clock speed.

P7 has INCREDIBLE performance per watt. Even at the same low draw as 476, p7 craps all over the 476, because its performance per watt destroys the 476.

[thehappening]

75 watts and 40 watts average 75 maxed out all guns a BLAZZING

the amd gpus that this console would run of range from 25watts to 50 watts then we look at the nm its 45nm wiiu its 40nm for the lastest and some of the latest amd E class gpus and gpus

then we can look at power draw for 55nm and 40nm gpus its clear that nintendo is using very low wattage cpu cores = powerpc 476fp type cpus in broadway spec not fp

then ad the edram instead of sram for catch IF EDRAM IS IN FACT BEING USED thats again a lower power draw 3x powerpc fp at 1.6ghz = 4.8 watts for 3x core a dsp and a arm co cpu we can easy be looking at no more than 7 watts

a top of the range E class amd gpu like the one at nintengen rumored to be the wiiu gpu with 1gb ram is 35 watts at 40nm

the gpu in wiiu was based on amd 55nm then shrunk to 45nm with 32mb edram that plus the 2 pools of ram MAXED OUT could be 50 ish watts thats leaving 25 for the drive etc

its clearly the gpu at full power that eats up power the cpu is clearly all said and done below 10 watts including co processors i wouldnt be supprised if the gpu alone was 45 watts leaving 30 watts for the whole system - gpu

amb 4670 8 rops shrunk customized and 32 mb edram added (at 55 nm with ram this card was 58 watts 750mhz i think) at 45nm tweeked and polished with edram not counting ram it could easy be 45 watts @ 800 mhz

[Arkhandar]

75 watts and 40 watts average 75 maxed out all guns a BLAZZING

the amd gpus that this console would run of range from 25watts to 50 watts then we look at the nm its 45nm wiiu its 40nm for the lastest and some of the latest amd E class gpus and gpus

then we can look at power draw for 55nm and 40nm gpus its clear that nintendo is using very low wattage cpu cores = powerpc 476fp type cpus in broadway spec not fp

then ad the edram instead of sram for catch IF EDRAM IS IN FACT BEING USED thats again a lower power draw 3x powerpc fp at 1.6ghz = 4.8 watts for 3x core a dsp and a arm co cpu we can easy be looking at no more than 7 watts

a top of the range E class amd gpu like the one at nintengen rumored to be the wiiu gpu with 1gb ram is 35 watts at 40nm

the gpu in wiiu was based on amd 55nm then shrunk to 45nm with 32mb edram that plus the 2 pools of ram MAXED OUT could be 50 ish watts thats leaving 25 for the drive etc

its clearly the gpu at full power that eats up power the cpu is clearly all said and done below 10 watts including co processors i wouldnt be supprised if the gpu alone was 45 watts leaving 30 watts for the whole system - gpu

amb 4670 8 rops shrunk customized and 32 mb edram added (at 55 nm with ram this card was 58 watts 750mhz i think) at 45nm tweeked and polished with edram not counting ram it could easy be 45 watts @ 800 mhz

At first it was funny and all, but now you're just embarrassing yourself.

First, there is no such thing as "catch". I suppose what you're trying to say is "cache".

Second, I don't know when you're going to get it, but for crying out loud, the Wii U does not use a Power PC CPU. I'm sorry but your perfect "broadwayfied" 476fp does not exist. The Wii U has a Power 7 CPU according to official statements. Enough, really.

Third and last, I think it's really unnecessary that you use Caps all the time... really unnecessary.

That's all. I'll be awaiting your response saying that: no the Wii U has a 3x core Power PC 476fp "broadwaywhatnot" because

Edited by Arkhandar, 20 September 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Usman Mohammad]

75 watts and 40 watts average 75 maxed out all guns a BLAZZING

the amd gpus that this console would run of range from 25watts to 50 watts then we look at the nm its 45nm wiiu its 40nm for the lastest and some of the latest amd E class gpus and gpus

then we can look at power draw for 55nm and 40nm gpus its clear that nintendo is using very low wattage cpu cores = powerpc 476fp type cpus in broadway spec not fp

then ad the edram instead of sram for catch IF EDRAM IS IN FACT BEING USED thats again a lower power draw 3x powerpc fp at 1.6ghz = 4.8 watts for 3x core a dsp and a arm co cpu we can easy be looking at no more than 7 watts

a top of the range E class amd gpu like the one at nintengen rumored to be the wiiu gpu with 1gb ram is 35 watts at 40nm

the gpu in wiiu was based on amd 55nm then shrunk to 45nm with 32mb edram that plus the 2 pools of ram MAXED OUT could be 50 ish watts thats leaving 25 for the drive etc

its clearly the gpu at full power that eats up power the cpu is clearly all said and done below 10 watts including co processors i wouldnt be supprised if the gpu alone was 45 watts leaving 30 watts for the whole system - gpu

amb 4670 8 rops shrunk customized and 32 mb edram added (at 55 nm with ram this card was 58 watts 750mhz i think) at 45nm tweeked and polished with edram not counting ram it could easy be 45 watts @ 800 mhz

Nothing wrong with PPC 4xx.

But it's not Power7.

However, Power7 has the entire PPC instruction set included.

Power7 is 45nm, SOI. It's humorous and tragic at the same time that anyone sees a manufacturing process similarity and equates two different products.

This is not the stock Power7 chip.

If it was PPC4xx, IBM would have said so. There is a difference.

The foundation of the chip is Power7. That is the architecture. That Power7 architecture specific has been customized to suit the Wii U console.

the fact that IBM is stating Power7 time and again is VERY telling. They know the difference. They are stating that because IT IS A POWER7.

Period.

/thread.

BREAKING NEWS:

IBM replied to my twitter and well...

https://twitter.com/...820933618442240

As I expected, their press statement never said Power7 back in 2011. IBM has been saying Power 7 on twitter but this is the first time that they are not confirming such. It's power based, nothing exactly saying Power7.

So with the evidence Happening is providing, we can assume that it's very possible to be PPC4xx, and more than happy to admit being wrong if this is true

Edited by Usman Mohammad, 20 September 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Arkhandar]

BREAKING NEWS:

IBM replied to my twitter and well...

https://twitter.com/...820933618442240

As I expected, their press statement never said Power7 back in 2011. IBM has been saying Power 7 on twitter but this is the first time that they are not confirming such. It's power based, nothing exactly saying Power7.

So with the evidence Happening is providing, we can assume that it's very possible to be PPC4xx, and more than happy to admit being wrong if this is true

They've just rolled back on their statements after reading the official spec sheet on Nintendo's website (therefore quoting it). Nothing impressive there.

Edited by Arkhandar, 20 September 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[Stormage09]

what does that IBM tweet mean for a non-tech guy, good or bad news? if someone can explain it a bit

Edited by Stormage09, 20 September 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Usman Mohammad]

They've just rolled back on their statements after reading the official spec sheet on Nintendo's website (therefore quoting it). Nothing impressive there.

But the theory and some evidence that TheHappening provides does certainly point towards the PPC4xx route. I want to know where this Power 7 talk started, and sort of found it on Engadget http://www.engadget....nintendo-wii-u/ talks about the same SOI technology not necessarily the architecture.

Edited by Usman Mohammad, 20 September 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Arkhandar]

what does that IBM tweet mean for a non-tech guy, good or bad news? if someone can explain it a bit

It doesn't mean anything really. Only that it is still unconfirmed if the Wii U uses either a Power PC CPU or a Power 7 CPU (but it probably is Power 7, they could have just being saying too much without knowing they were)

Edited by Arkhandar, 20 September 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Usman Mohammad]

It doesn't mean anything really. Only that it is still unconfirmed if the Wii U uses either a Power PC CPU or a Power 7 CPU (but it probably is Power 7, they could have just being saying too much without knowing they were)

I'm leaning more on the PPC side, because I honestly can't find an official source other than the twitter account that says Power 7, and note the power 7 rumours/ confirmation came because every was stating it was the same architecture as IBM Watson when in fact they were talking about the SOI technology and not the same architecture, from what I am gathering from this.

[Arkhandar]

I'm leaning more on the PPC side, because I honestly can't find an official source other than the twitter account that says Power 7, and note the power 7 rumours/ confirmation came because every was stating it was the same architecture as IBM Watson when in fact they were talking about the SOI technology and not the same architecture, from what I am gathering from this.

Honestly, it could go either way. In my perspective it reads like this:

"IBM tells us that within the Wii U there's a 45nm custom chip / with "a lot" of embedded DRAM (shown above)./ It's a silicon on insulator design / and packs the same processor technology found in Watson."

[Usman Mohammad]

Honestly, it could go either way. In my perspective it reads like this:

"IBM tells us that within the Wii U there's a 45nm custom chip / with "a lot" of embedded DRAM (shown above)./ It's a silicon on insulator design / and packs the same processor technology found in Watson."

That's the direction everyone's taking, but from what I gathered from the press release, the only thing that I can find that matches with Watson is SOI.

[3Dude]

I'm leaning more on the PPC side, because I honestly can't find an official source other than the twitter account that says Power 7, and note the power 7 rumours/ confirmation came because every was stating it was the same architecture as IBM Watson when in fact they were talking about the SOI technology and not the same architecture, from what I am gathering from this.

All modern power architectures (power4 and up) are ppc architectures, as they run on the instruction core that was started on power pc.

The official IBM power 7 Documentation I attached to this board refers to the Power 7 as a power pc architecture.

Power7 runs on ppc 2.06 instruction architecture.

This is where people who recieve second hand information, or dont really know what they are talking about get confused.

IBM has, from an official source bound by the legal agreements of ibm's standards of computer communications, stated, on multiple occasions, the wii u cpu is a custom power 7, the same processor core found in ibm watson.

For those with pr advertising nonsense in there heads thinking ibm is LYING for the sake of 'advertising' if it was a ppc 4xx series, they would have said it was the same processor family found in the Blue gene sequoia, the current fastest super computer in the world.

They would have truthful super computer pr either way. So why lie about watson?

There is no reason to name watson, and specifically state power 7 chips if its not using power 7. Those theories are nothing more than nonsense, and certainly not something Chris nays is willing to get fired over for breaching the ibm communications standards, when he could simply state, as he has done NUMEROUS times on the exact same twitter feed 'Thats not something ibm watson does.'

[Socalmuscle]

BREAKING NEWS:

IBM replied to my twitter and well...

https://twitter.com/...820933618442240

As I expected, their press statement never said Power7 back in 2011. IBM has been saying Power 7 on twitter but this is the first time that they are not confirming such. It's power based, nothing exactly saying Power7.

So with the evidence Happening is providing, we can assume that it's very possible to be PPC4xx, and more than happy to admit being wrong if this is true

Nothing more than IBM realizing they may have said more than they should before it's time.

They made no bones about it.

Now that it has been brought to their attention, they quote Nintendo and respect their secrecy. Nothing new there.

It is the Watson Twitter, no? and watson is a part of...

LOL

Edited by Socalmuscle, 20 September 2012 - 10:52 AM.