51 replies to this topic

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

I dont want to argue again... plz... 360 got 48 SPUs not 240... plz.. dont do that... haha http://www.anandtech...ft-s-xbox-360/8

http://en.wikipedia....(graphics_chip)

so u confused GFLOPS with SPUs


The original graphics card 360 used, had 64 SPUS, it was a modern gpu at that time... Microsoft cut off the 1/3 of the spus, due to heat and power consumption... and 360 overall got 48 spus..

Today graphics cards got 720 at minimum and up to 2000+

Now do not get confused that, if wii U got 400 (an example) is 10x times from 360... no.. its more complicated... but wii U got much more potential and computing power for sure. For example, if xbox360 gpu could do 48 jobs at the same time... wii U can do much more... each processing unit can handle, up to 1 job at a time... Nvidia is different, its more like 2 or 4 jobs per spu (cuda) at the same time... Thats why amd cards got MORE spus than the NVIDIAs... because Nvidias spus, can do more per unit.... if for example 400, its more like 1600 for amd...

The latest 6xx series by nvidia, changed the architecture, and they cut off the half cuda power from the spus.. so its more like 2 jobs at the same time per unit... It has less computing.

What?

We tend to count things as stream processors now. At least for AMD. The XBox 360 has 48 5-way shaders, so we count them as 240 stream processors. The Wii U will hopefully have 640+ stream processors, but those will probably be 4-way or 5-way and that will be counted. So when comparing the two, 360 has 240 stream processors, also called shaders. The Wii U will hopefully have 640+.

Edited by PotatoHog, 10 December 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[Zinix]

Correct me if I don't understand the purpose of this thread, but is it about the Wii U being able to do programmable shaders? Or this is going to turn into another stealth GPU/GPGPU flame war thread?

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

Correct me if I don't understand the purpose of this thread, but is it about the Wii U being able to do programmable shaders? Or this is going to turn into another stealth GPU/GPGPU flame war thread?

Like I said, the purpose was to show people the difference between Wii and Wii U graphics, which was cool. I accidentally got a screenshot of the PS3 version of Assassins Creed 3, but I still tried my best...

So then I also wanted to talk about the Wii U having programmable shaders at some point, it being the first Nintendo console to do so. I figured now was the perfect time since I believe some of the difference, not all, is from shaders.

Any time the GPU is discussed, there are usually things to clear up. But I hope this doesn't turn into a GPGPU thread as I will once again say that I think people have too high of expectation of the GPGPU, that I don't think it will be able to take much load off the CPU or raise framerate but rather create some cool graphical effects.

Edited by PotatoHog, 10 December 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

2 - 3 years time it will look like reall life O_O

[Soul]

2 - 3 years time it will look like reall life O_O

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

2 - 3 years time it will look like reall life O_O

Madden probably will. The 360/PS3 version have appeared to get great improvements over the life of the console, and I don't think the Wii U version will be different.

[Goose]

It won't be quite as fast. However, can I get a source to people saying that the A10's GPU is THE GPU for the Playstation Omni? Because I checked up on it once and it kind of sounded like it had a separate GPU as well.



If it doesn't though, it actually won't be the end of the world, because the A10 GPU is comparable... just not as fast.

So far I believe that it's pretty certain there will be an APU without another GPU. Sony is pretty strapped for cash right now and don't want to take too much of a loss on the enxt Playstation. Here's the rumor that came out a while ago that most people say is true:

http://www.gamespot....lopers-6399470/

On Neogaf (I know... gaf...) they seems to think that they will use an APU, but probably use a stronger GPU base inside that ship. So using a strait A10 specs as an example of the PS4 probably isn't going to be too accurate, but not far off.

So far it looks like

Wii U = Radeon HD 5670
PS4 = A10 5800k APU
Xbox 3 = ? hell if I know, probably stronger than PS3 though.


Reading back I guess I am getting off topic from the main point of this thread, haha. But yeah the Wii U is a huge improvement over the Wii graphically. Can't believe Nintendo was stuck with Gamecube era specs for over a decade. I hope this upcoming generation doesn't take quite so long. It's impressive what they did with the Wii considering what they had. I'm really excited to see what people achieve with this thing at E3 with modern specs, actual shaders, and whatnot.

Edited by Goose, 10 December 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[3Dude]

Gpgpu will prkbably assist simd and thats pretty much it.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

So far I believe that it's pretty certain there will be an APU without another GPU. Sony is pretty strapped for cash right now and don't want to take too much of a loss on the enxt Playstation. Here's the rumor that came out a while ago that most people say is true:

http://www.gamespot....lopers-6399470/

On Neogaf (I know... gaf...) they seems to think that they will use an APU, but probably use a stronger GPU base inside that ship. So using a strait A10 specs as an example of the PS4 probably isn't going to be too accurate, but not far off.

So far it looks like

Wii U = Radeon HD 5670
PS4 = A10 5800k APU
Xbox 3 = ? hell if I know, probably stronger than PS3 though.


Reading back I guess I am getting off topic from the main point of this thread, haha. But yeah the Wii U is a huge improvement over the Wii graphically. Can't believe Nintendo was stuck with Gamecube era specs for over a decade. I hope this upcoming generation doesn't take quite so long. It's impressive what they did with the Wii considering what they had. I'm really excited to see what people achieve with this thing at E3 with modern specs, actual shaders, and whatnot.

I read an article suggesting that the Playstation Omni will have an A10 and a dedicated GPU that I think is weaker than the Wii U's GPU. Together, the two should be faster than the Wii U. Then that the XBox 720 has a more powerful dedicated graphics card. It was the most plausible article I have read. I can't find it now though. If it's true, it would suggest that the Playstation Omni and the XBox 720 will be more powerful than the Wii U, but not over twice as powerful probably.

If you are getting offtopic, well, at least it's a subject that interests me.

[MatrixChicken]

I absolutely CANNOT WAIT for a 3D Mario platformer on the Wii U. Galaxy 1 and 2 look amazing, and that's saying a lot, considering the Wii's super-low graphics power. Just imaginge how awesome a 3D Mario game would look on the Wii U! And i'm sure they could come up with some new awesome gameplay mechanics to make it even more awesome. :3

Who's with me?

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

I absolutely CANNOT WAIT for a 3D Mario platformer on the Wii U. Galaxy 1 and 2 look amazing, and that's saying a lot, considering the Wii's super-low graphics power. Just imaginge how awesome a 3D Mario game would look on the Wii U! And i'm sure they could come up with some new awesome gameplay mechanics to make it even more awesome. :3

Who's with me?

Well like I said in a status update, I'm a Sonic fan. I find Mario a little slow and boring in comparison. But I'm thinking about becoming a Mario fan over a Sonic fan, and focusing on that. While I did say that Mario is slower than Sonic, it does seem to have more strategy. I would need to focus on the strategy element.

[Goose]

I read an article suggesting that the Playstation Omni will have an A10 and a dedicated GPU that I think is weaker than the Wii U's GPU. Together, the two should be faster than the Wii U. Then that the XBox 720 has a more powerful dedicated graphics card. It was the most plausible article I have read. I can't find it now though. If it's true, it would suggest that the Playstation Omni and the XBox 720 will be more powerful than the Wii U, but not over twice as powerful probably.

If you are getting offtopic, well, at least it's a subject that interests me.

I too don't think this generation will be like the last one. Maybe there will be a lower powered GPU in addition to the A10. The rumors have been all over the place this past year it's entirely possible. Sony is always pretty open about there hardware, so at E3 I'm sure they will provide an in depth explanation of what's in their next machine.


And yeah I can't wait for Nintendo exclusives either. They will look amazing.

Edited by Goose, 10 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

If all the Playstation Omni has is an A10, it will probably only be about as powerful as the Wii U. Doesn't really matter if it has 4GB+ RAM, since the extra RAM probably won't be used for every game.

[Plutonas]

What?

We tend to count things as stream processors now. At least for AMD. The XBox 360 has 48 5-way shaders, so we count them as 240 stream processors. The Wii U will hopefully have 640+ stream processors, but those will probably be 4-way or 5-way and that will be counted. So when comparing the two, 360 has 240 stream processors, also called shaders. The Wii U will hopefully have 640+.

that way yes.. but they are less effective than the today spus, as it was the first time ever, a gpu have spus on it... so its actually 48 x 5 but less effective.

And no.... wii U noway to have 500+ spus... they limit it alot! You can feel that from the power consumption of the overall system. There is no point to add 500++ spus in a very greeny system... I assume its about 350-400... Also in NEOGAF the maximum gflops they give for wii U, is 400-500 at the best! because of the power consumption of the system!! Nintendo limit it alot! I think its 75w overall? So lets keep 20-25w for all the wii U parts, except the gpu that uses most of it.

But even if its 400-500gflops, it can do much more than 360... its about 3x-4x, I wish it was a 7xxx series amd card.. these new architecture got LOTS OF computing! Ideal for consoles that are gpu optimized and programs.... But 4xxx, 5xxx or 6xxx cards... are just the same, tweaked...

Amd and Nvidia, went a bit vise verse... till 5xx series, NVIDIA have LOTS of computing in the gpu... Amd was much less. Now things are changed... but nvidia is still faster and smoother, due to better drivers. Nvidia cut off the 1/2 computing power of their gpus, because TESLA rioted about it!!.. They couldn't sell the professional gpus, because the game cards, were stronger than them!!..

Edited by Orion, 10 December 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

that way yes.. but they are less effective than the today spus, as it was the first time ever, a gpu have spus on it... so its actually 48 x 5 but less effective.

And no.... wii U noway to have 500+ spus... they limit it alot! You can feel that from the power consumption of the overall system. There is no point to add 500++ spus in a very greeny system... I assume its about 350-400... Also in NEOGAF the maximum gflops they give for wii U, is 400-500 at the best! because of the power consumption of the system!! Nintendo limit it alot! I think its 75w overall? So lets keep 20-25w for all the wii U parts, except the gpu that uses most of it.

But even if its 400-500gflops, it can do much more than 360... its about 3x-4x, I wish it was a 7xxx series amd card.. these new architecture got LOTS OF computing! Ideal for consoles that are gpu optimized and programs.... But 4xxx, 5xxx or 6xxx cards... are just the same, tweaked...

Okay. This makes sense now that I thought about it.

The thing to look at now is ROPs and TMUs. If the ROP count is 8 and the TMU count is 16-24 of the Wii U GPU, the GPU may still be only about 50% more powerful overall than the 360's GPU. But if we're talking 16 ROPs and 24-32+ TMUs, it's a different story. But since they're scaling back stream processors, they're probably scaling back ROPs and TMUs too.

If it turns out the Wii U GPU only has 8 ROPs and 16-24 TMUs, the GPU in the PS Omni's A10 might actually be faster.

Also, I'd put the Wii U's shader performance more at about 2x-2.5x than the 360 with your figures.

Edited by PotatoHog, 11 December 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[Plutonas]

it must be 8... I remember a very old rumor talking about 8xxx X 8xxx textures remember? thats 8 rops. It was a rumor though, also that mean 4xxx series card... Because 5xxx and after, are 16k textures.

I hate what nintendo does, they dont seem very confident about their choices, I remember in the old days, nintendo always loved to post their specs... they changed after wii...because as it proved, they followed a different path...

Edited by Orion, 11 December 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Keviin]

Took me a sec but I found a source.

http://www.extremete...-details-emerge

It seems most people agree that the GPU is "beastly" but have issues with the CPU. When you first see the specs for the CPU it's a little disheartening, but even markan (the hacker that found out the clock speeds) says that despite being slow, it is still vastly better than current gen consoles. So... In my opinion Nintendo is doing alright with the Wii U, considering they aren't able to take a huge loss on their consoles like their competitors (who have other departments to subsidize their consoles for a couple years).

I think the Wii U will get good support. A year head-start will give developers plenty of time to accept the Wii U seeing how right now it IS the most powerful console. I think Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate will push the console, the next ZombiU game, and Monolith's game. I think Bayonetta 2 will give us a taste of what the Wii U can do graphically, but E3 2013 will be amazing.

How does an A10 APU compare to that? seeing as the next Playstation is highly rumored to have an APU?

Thanks. A Radeon HD 5670 it is then, I guess.

If all the Playstation Omni has is an A10, it will probably only be about as powerful as the Wii U. Doesn't really matter if it has 4GB+ RAM, since the extra RAM probably won't be used for every game.

Next gen will probably be Wii U + PS4 < Xbox 3, instead of Wii < PS360 I think. The PS4 might be a tad more powerful, but that would only be notable for exclusives because I also think the two will be in roughly the same league. I have a feeling though, that next-gen Xbox games will kick anythings ass except for PC gaming off course.

Also about the remark of realism in 2-3 years, no, that's not gonna happen. Look around you. The amounts of detail in real-life is too damn high.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

Also about the remark of realism in 2-3 years, no, that's not gonna happen. Look around you. The amounts of detail in real-life is too damn high.

It depends on what's considered "real life". Games have looked like real life for years. That doesn't mean there aren't improvements to be made.

[Keviin]

It depends on what's considered "real life". Games have looked like real life for years. That doesn't mean there aren't improvements to be made.

Real life as in, perfectly simulating the real world. Every single detail.

[The Lonely Koopa]

Real life as in, perfectly simulating the real world. Every single detail.

That itself will never be possible.