192 replies to this topic

[PedanticGamer]

I'm not saying there isn't evidence, rather not enough for the science community to believe it. Mainly because the story revolves around something spiritual.
And here's the article: http://en.wikipedia....t_Tomb_of_Jesus

Have you read the bible?

[Dragon]

Have you read the bible?

Hmm.... The part I've read the most of was Revelations.

Refer to my post from earlier: "I've studied a bit of both sides. But the thing is, no matter what side I'm on, I couldn't defend it very well. I don't take enough time to study it."

[Chaotix]

LOL @ Dan's comment for burning the popcorn and that made me laugh a lot and also blues mentioned some interesting points.

[PedanticGamer]

Hmm.... The part I've read the most of was Revelations.
as
Refer to my post from earlier: "I've studied a bit of both sides. But the thing is, no matter what side I'm on, I couldn't defend it very well. I don't take enough time to study it."

That was my point your talking about the story revolving around spirituality yet you have not actually read the story (off that you call what you believe in a story).


I fell like adding a great quote from Religulous and ask what people here think of it.

"The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting carp dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die."

[Dragon]

That was my point your talking about the story revolving around spirituality yet you have not actually read the story (off that you call what you believe in a story).


I fell like adding a great quote from Religulous and ask what people here think of it.

"The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting carp dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die."

I'll never understand how people can use religion as an excuse to do extremely stupid stuff. I sure don't. My faith has no affect on anything I do. I simply pray, read daily bible quotes and move on.

Edited by Dragon, 14 December 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Byakuya Togami]

OH BOY IT SURE IS TOO BAD THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE OR DISPROVE THAT GOD EXISTS.

I still don't understand why people don't like the values of Christianity though, I mean, isn't it all about being nice to people and charity and the ten commandments and the Golden rule? I mean, if those aren't good things I don't know what are.

I dunno. From Christianity I see hope and love and niceties with a fringe of lunatics, and from atheists, I see this.



"Oh but that's just a few people on reddit bubgbbnsbsdbnd jbjsd gawd"
Sure it is. Sure. Not like tons of people I know are like this.
Now, I know there are people who respect others within this non-religious group, but I still see a majority being incredibly intolerant and very unhappy people.

Agreed. Stoning homosexuals and disobedient children is such a great thing to do in the name of God!

But in all seriousness, the fallaciousness of your post makes my eyes hurt.

Edited by Luke Fon Fabre, 14 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[Hunter]

Also, their is no way in hell that Noah's Arch is real.

Sure Noah may not have had an ark on which he brought 2 of each animal to repopulate the planet. But there is evidence which suggests there was a great flood which happened around the time/area Noahs Ark supposedly took place. It is entirely possible that someone (or several people) gathered as many animals as they could to try and save them. Then this story was passed down and exaggerated by word of mouth until eventually written in the bible.

[Xiombarg]

Sure Noah may not have had an ark on which he brought 2 of each animal to repopulate the planet. But there is evidence which suggests there was a great flood which happened around the time/area Noahs Ark supposedly took place. It is entirely possible that someone (or several people) gathered as many animals as they could to try and save them. Then this story was passed down and exaggerated by word of mouth until eventually written in the bible.

The story of the flood actually predates Noah's arc, as it is first mentioned in the Epic of Gilgamesh. In the Epic, the flood is said to be a legend from early man, however, Utnapishtim only saved his family and friends. It is funny as it makes more sense, because the animals are saved by the gods instead of a ridiculous ark. But other than that, Noah's story is completely borrowed from the epic, as one of the gods tells Utnapishtim to build an ark to survive because another god feels humans are too evil and corrupt and need to be killed off by flood.
Plus, the Gilgamesh Epic took place around Uruk, where there were constant floods.

[BanjoKazooie]

Sure Noah may not have had an ark on which he brought 2 of each animal to repopulate the planet. But there is evidence which suggests there was a great flood which happened around the time/area Noahs Ark supposedly took place. It is entirely possible that someone (or several people) gathered as many animals as they could to try and save them. Then this story was passed down and exaggerated by word of mouth until eventually written in the bible.

i believe their was a flood, and maybe some guy built a boat, and maybe he tried to save some animals, but I honestly don't care because I just don't.

The story of the flood actually predates Noah's arc, as it is first mentioned in the Epic of Gilgamesh. In the Epic, the flood is said to be a legend from early man, however, Utnapishtim only saved his family and friends. It is funny as it makes more sense, because the animals are saved by the gods instead of a ridiculous ark. But other than that, Noah's story is completely borrowed from the epic, as one of the gods tells Utnapishtim to build an ark to survive because another god feels humans are too evil and corrupt and need to be killed off by flood.
Plus, the Gilgamesh Epic took place around Uruk, where there were constant floods.

I JUST READ THE EPIC OF GILGAMESH!!! I hated it...

[WisdomPowerCourage]

If God is so perfect, then why did he create something so imperfect allowing pain, suffering and daily atrocities?
Answer that.

That's the whole point of the religion, God gave everyone free will. You have the choice to be good or sin, no one every said the path to heaven would be easy.

[Xiombarg]

I JUST READ THE EPIC OF GILGAMESH!!! I hated it...

I personally loved it. But then again, I read it for fun, first.

That's the whole point of the religion, God gave everyone free will. You have the choice to be good or sin, no one every said the path to heaven would be easy.

That doesn't really answer the question, as it gets into the purpose of god and his nature, whether he is himself perfect or flawed. I'm really tempted to argue the devils advocate for some issues, but for now, I'm really hoping to see how far everyone's arguments go.

[WisdomPowerCourage]

I personally loved it. But then again, I read it for fun, first.
That doesn't really answer the question, as it gets into the purpose of god and his nature, whether he is himself perfect or flawed. I'm really tempted to argue the devils advocate for some issues, but for now, I'm really hoping to see how far everyone's arguments go.

Yeah, I kind of realized afterward it didn't answer it. I know my answer in my head but I'm not sure how to write it. I could go into so much detail but ill just leave it at this, all Gods acts happen for a reason and its all a part of his plan. Though you may not see why now, it will all explain itself eventually.

[Big Boss]

Agreed. Stoning homosexuals and disobedient children is such a great thing to do in the name of God!

But in all seriousness, the fallaciousness of your post makes my eyes hurt.

And that's where the fringe of lunatics I was talking about comes in.
Also, thanks for trying to make me feel like a an idiotic failure. Really a nice thing to do. Really.

Goddamn the 5H!7 in this thread. Everyone has their own opinions and observations.
All I see is hate and hate and hate from everyone, and I can't stand it.

Just let people live with their ideas. They're not hurting anyone. The only ones that are are the crazy ones, which are a vast minority compared to the rest.

I'm not just speaking to atheists here, btw.

Edited by HuntheUniverse, 14 December 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Dan]

And that's where the fringe of lunatics I was talking about comes in.

...

Just let people live with their ideas. They're not hurting anyone. The only ones that are are the crazy ones, which are a vast minority compared to the rest.

If by 'fringe' and 'vast minority' you mean 46% of Americans, then sure, you're completely correct. That number happens to reflect the opposition to gay marriage from not even a month ago.

Or maybe you mean 21% of Alabama residents who believe interracial marriage should be illegal.

Or maybe the countless number of churches that endorsed (or threatened their members to hell if they did not comply) a presidential candidate.

[Hunter]

i believe their was a flood, and maybe some guy built a boat, and maybe he tried to save some animals, but I honestly don't care because I just don't.

Dismissing everything with "i dont care" adds nothing to discussion, either contribute something worthwhile or dont bother replying at all.

Edited by Hunter, 14 December 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Big Boss]

If by 'fringe' and 'vast minority' you mean 46% of Americans, then sure, you're completely correct. That number happens to reflect the opposition to gay marriage from not even a month ago.

Or maybe you mean 21% of Alabama residents who believe interracial marriage should be illegal.

Or maybe the countless number of churches that endorsed (or threatened their members to hell if they did not comply) a presidential candidate.

Just because they oppose gay marriage doesn't mean they'd stone them. That's insane.

[UnholyVision]

I dunno. From Christianity I see hope and love and niceties with a fringe of lunatics, and from atheists, I see this.

Sure it is. Sure. Not like tons of people I know are like this.
Now, I know there are people who respect others within this non-religious group, but I still see a majority being incredibly intolerant and very unhappy people.

Ah, I love the crazy Christians too. (going off the bold text) XD


(Tons of crap like this or that on YouTube and/or real life).
I personally, can't blame some people for lashing back out for crap like this. (To some degree of course. Not violent acts).

As for being unhappy or intolerant? I would say that about both sides and not just atheist.

I never said this was my reasoning for believing in God.....?

I said from the point of view of someone who is already believing in something that is not scientific; wouldn't it make sense to just believe in God to have your bases covered

...because if you are going to deny there is a God anyway then why do you really care if he appreciates it or not

After reading your post (and while on YouTube anyway) you made me think of this comedy.

[Alex Wolfers]

Paganism FTW!

Edited by Mr.Saturn, 25 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Hybrilynx]

why do atheists celebrate christmas? it doesnt make any sense.

[UnholyVision]

why do atheists celebrate christmas? it doesnt make any sense.

I do not celebrate it. Though there are a few reason some do celebrate the holiday. Based off the facts it was originally a pagan holiday to the Christians, Jesus was not suppose to be born then, you have a crazy myth of a Santa to help consumerism, and a few other reason. (Yes, I am being rather vague on the explaining. Check the internet for origins of the holiday or whatever else via search engine. Plenty of information).

What is amazing is Christians like to separate others in some degree. They can't just say "Happy Holidays" and be done with it. Nope they even want to split the Jewish crowd away from them. Personally, I think there should be one type of holiday where everyone can get together and celebrate possibly family per se than all the religious, slaughtering of people background, or consumerism. A time where people can just put all sort of put that aside and come together. Yet the world is not that simple and everyone loves to try and fight each over stuff. Got to love a holiday regardless of Jesus or not where the idea comes down to, "I gave the biggest and best present. To receive this in return", "What did you get me. I careless about you, so long as you brought me something". Meh