134 replies to this topic

[Plutonas]

Wii U is facing the elders now and developers must jump and that cost them money, to tweak their engines.

As for the other consoles the new ones, I believe it will do better, cause of the restrictions and the luck of experience again with the new hardwares...

Edited by Orion, 10 January 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[thunderspider]

Games are capable of far beyond 1080p, not so much now, only some can do it but by next gen and the gen after that 1080p will be "meh"...Sony is already saying the ps4 can support resolutions of around 3967x2760.

Well, but Sony it's not the most trustful corporation, i mean, they've promised 4d, 120fps, toy story graphics, and other hyperboles over the time

[Desert Punk]

The valhalla mcm 360 revision is made on a 45nm process size and is 168 mm squared. Thats gpu AND cpu size COMBINED. The wii u gpu ALONE is on a 40 nm process and 156 mm squared. IT absolutely dwarfs the 360 gpu in physical size, despite being made on a smaller process, AND it is clocked higher, AND it has a more modern feature set.

Try harder.

No one is doubting the gpu is superior and it has much more high speed video memory but then you factor in the slow memory chips and the weak cpu and you get a result which is current gen overall but clearly exceeds in the graphics area but is weaker in other areas. So certain games that require less cpu resources will be enhanced on wii u and other games which are cpu intensive will underperform on wii u which is exactly what we are seeing.

It's widely stated the wii u is easy to develop for and should be as its using established technology.

The point is the wii u will not be competitive in performance with the next Sony and Microsoft offerings but brings a new gaming experience based on its gamepad and is equal more or less with the current gen consoles.

[3Dude]

No one is doubting the gpu is superior and it has much more high speed video memory but then you factor in the slow memory chips and the weak cpu and you get a result which is current gen overall but clearly exceeds in the graphics area but is weaker in other areas. So certain games that require less cpu resources will be enhanced on wii u and other games which are cpu intensive will underperform on wii u which is exactly what we are seeing.
It's widely stated the wii u is easy to develop for and should be as its using established technology.
The point is the wii u will not be competitive in performance with the next Sony and Microsoft offerings but brings a new gaming experience based on its gamepad and is equal more or less with the current gen consoles.

Yeah, sorry, we have the ram access rates for the memory heiarchy. You know, that thing you use so that slow main memory is irrelevent?

8,11 for 1 14,30 for 2.

And the espresso cpu destroys branch code the xenon would only get 1/3rd-1-10th the performance per clock on. The xenon is good for grinding floating point, it sucks at everything else. Thats why devs, REAL DEVS WITH NAMES, broke nda's at the beginning of this gen to complain about the 360's garbage cpu.

Thank you try again.

Edited by 3Dude, 10 January 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Plutonas]

memory bandwidth is not important for the console between mhz... a 1600mhz ram has no difference with a 2400mhz, extremly low difference.... and the differences between 1300 and 1600mhz on a pc, are extremely low also.

I think in 2015, ddr4 ram is comming... then we will see lots of difference between ddr3 and ddr4

All the arguement is about the type of memory... For example they could use the Gddr5, or gddr3 memory that is used for graphics (in gpus), that is much much better.. but they used ddr3 instead. An example... A dd3 memory, lets say it gives us 15 gflops... A gddr5 memory gives us 200 gflops.... (thats an example, not actual numbers... but is that a big difference).

Edited by Orion, 10 January 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Chaz]

Yeah, sorry, we have the ram access rates for the memory heiarchy. You know, that thing you use so that slow main memory is irrelevent?

8,11 for 1 14,30 for 2.

And the espresso cpu destroys branch code the xenon would only get 1/3rd-1-10th the performance per clock on. The xenon is good for grinding floating point, it sucks at everything else. Thats why devs, REAL DEVS WITH NAMES, broke nda's at the beginning of this gen to complain about the 360's garbage cpu.

Thank you try again.

You have experience with the Wii U hardware?

[3Dude]

You have experience with the Wii U hardware?

Im not as involved as i used to be now that i got kids and whatnot, but If you want to check out the progress on wii u from some very talented people, check out failoverflow.com

Just be aware you will need some manner of education on the matter to understand what they are doing. They dont divulge specifics, because they dont want Nintendo to have a free ticket to undo all their work. Been that way since team twiizers. Please dont ask for specifics.

I dont think ive ever seen anything go this fast. Its like Nintendo WANTS it.

[Desert Punk]

Yeah, sorry, we have the ram access rates for the memory heiarchy. You know, that thing you use so that slow main memory is irrelevent?

8,11 for 1 14,30 for 2.

And the espresso cpu destroys branch code the xenon would only get 1/3rd-1-10th the performance per clock on. The xenon is good for grinding floating point, it sucks at everything else. Thats why devs, REAL DEVS WITH NAMES, broke nda's at the beginning of this gen to complain about the 360's garbage cpu.

Thank you try again.

As much as I'd like to go down the road that my wii u is more powerful than it is I see little point when reality and the facts state something else. If you want to make statements about the hardware you need to be specific.

I don't remember anyone criticising the 360 for its cpu at the time. It was massively powerful back then and a huge improvement on the previous generation. When you add a statement like that to your response do you not realise you come across as some sort of demented fanboy out of touch with reality.

Understand that actual performance of the wii u and what actual developers are stating will be used by most people to understand the wii u performance not fanboy posts in forums.

[Plutonas]

3dude the link u gave us, is blocked by kaspersky as a virus page...

Edited by Orion, 11 January 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Chaz]

Im not as involved as i used to be now that i got kids and whatnot, but If you want to check out the progress on wii u from some very talented people, check out failoverflow.com

Just be aware you will need some manner of education on the matter to understand what they are doing. They dont divulge specifics, because they dont want Nintendo to have a free ticket to undo all their work. Been that way since team twiizers. Please dont ask for specifics.

I dont think ive ever seen anything go this fast. Its like Nintendo WANTS it.

I meant are you actually experienced developing with the Wii U hardware, or are you sharing things that you've read from elsewhere?

Edited by Chaz, 11 January 2013 - 06:29 AM.

[3Dude]

I meant are you actually experienced developing with the Wii U hardware, or are you sharing things that you've read from elsewhere?

Your question was answered completely, I will not divulge specifics, and i already told you why.

As much as I'd like to go down the road that my wii u is more powerful than it is I see little point when reality and the facts state something else. If you want to make statements about the hardware you need to be specific.
I don't remember anyone criticising the 360 for its cpu at the time. It was massively powerful back then and a huge improvement on the previous generation. When you add a statement like that to your response do you not realise you come across as some sort of demented fanboy out of touch with reality.
Understand that actual performance of the wii u and what actual developers are stating will be used by most people to understand the wii u performance not fanboy posts in forums.

Of course you dont. This is real information from developers conferences, from a real panel and a real lecture. Not the garbage perpetrated by the clueless game media. The only way to get this information is to have BEEN THERE, or to read a transcript of the sessions recording, BECAUSE THE GAMEZ MEDIA DOESNT COVER REAL NEWS.

It also wouldnt surprise me if the names Warren Spector, Brenda Laurel, Jason Della
Rocca, Greg Costikyan, or Chris Hecker mean nothing to you.

Heres a snippet from Hecker breaking his nda in an epic, and never mentioned by the media, rant about the 360.

"It pains me to say this but I recently just took
a job at EA. However, I worked for Will on
the game you just saw, so.. [laughter] I’m
going to rant about How Sony And Microsoft
Are About To Screw Your Game Design.
Look, how are we going to get where
gameplay, graphics and physics are all
evenly well balanced? At the moment we’re
the 120lb weakling, except nowadays his
right arm here, graphics, is enormous.
So, as you know, graphics and physics grind
on large homogenous floating point data
structures in a very straight-line structured
way. Then we have AI and gameplay code.
Lots of exceptions, tunable parameters,
indirections and often messy. We hate this
code, it’s a mess, but this is the code that
makes the game DIFFERENT. Here is the
terrifying realization about the next
generation consoles: I’m about to break a
ton of NDAs here, oh well, haha, I never
signed them anyway.
Gameplay code will get slower and harder to
write on the next generation of consoles.
Modern CPUs use out-of-order execution,
which is there to make crappy code run fast.
This was really good for the industry when it
happened, although it annoyed many
assembly language wizards in Sweden.
Xenon and Cell are both in-order chips.
What does this mean? It’s cheaper for them
to do this. They can drop a lot of cores. One
out-of-order core is about four times [ did I
catch that right? Alice ] the size of an in-
order core. What does this do to our code?
It’s great for grinding on floating point, but
for anything else it totally sucks. Rumours
from people actually working on these chips
– straight-line runs 1/3 to 1/10th the
performance at the same clock speed. This
sucks."

Edited by 3Dude, 11 January 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[GAMER1984]

The reality is we have to wait and see... The answer is going to come until about a year and a half from now. There are so many variables and unknowns know one cant say as of right now they know what the Wii U will be able to achieve. Now Aussie gamer is saying there will be a new Bayonetta 2 trailer next week.... That could be our first chance(if true) to see what the wii u can really do(if they show actual real time gameplay). All I know is this if not from anyone else Nintendo HAS to show off jaw dropping games this year I'm talking things that make graphics whores want to go out and buy a Wii U. We will see 2013 will be interesting.... Nintendo has to step up.

Edited by GAMER1984, 11 January 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[Chaz]

Your question was answered completely, I will not divulge specifics, and i already told you why.

You did?

It was a simple yes/no question, so I guess in a roundabout sort of way we'll call that a "No".

[Alianjaro]

Visually the difference will almost not be noticeable. I am optimistic. Let's wait for Nintendl's core IPs. They will show us.

[CookieEpic]

The X720 & PS4 will be more powerful than the Wii U that is a FACT, both Sony & Xbox will make sure of this, the question is what will the developers do with the power.

Playstation 4/Orbis is basically going for raw power.
They want to see if they can top the Wii U.


....

However, the future plans for Xbox 720 don't seem so...gaming oriented.

So far, the Xbox 720 has been confirmed to..


- Have alot of the power go into the Kinect so they can make their realtime avatar chatroom a reality.

- Games seem to be a bit of a side-part. They are fully downloadable...but no comment on retail versions. Microsoft wants to make full use of the "Cloud Gaming" idea.

- Possible option of full motion controls

And other things that i'm sure have been pointed out.

[BlueBlur]

I don't care what direction SONY or M$ are aiming for, my concern is whether or not Nintendo can hold on to third-party support.

[thunderspider]

I don't care what direction SONY or M$ are aiming for, my concern is whether or not Nintendo can hold on to third-party support.

I think it's not so simple, apparently Thirds don't like Nintendo. For many reasons, like competition with Nintendo titles,and the way that Nintendo controlled them int the 90's. So the max that i expect is some support just slightly better than gamecube in multiplats, for example, for exclusives coming from thirds, i expect to be the better Nintendo console in many years

[Alex Wolfers]

Isnt this the 3rd or 4th post on this topic? Must I remind you that cross posting is against the rules and is frowned upon.The admins need to clean this up.

[humadera_1]

oh impressive Wii U

[djlewe78]

3DS V VITA ! Its all about games n content, not raw power. IF Nintendo drip feed us massive , amazing looking games at the right times, the WIIU will seem like a sensible choice, as its also HD and runs our home entertainment hubs. The xbox n ps are gonna have to be clever to bring us a product thats not just for games and accessable by everyone to stay in the market, games come from everywhere at the moment, phones, tablets, laptops, so to warrent a big spend they gotta bring a lot more than gaming!